Izuku Midoriya and Katsuki Bakugo vs Might Guy and Kakashi Hatake [0-1-0]

[MochOath]

duos are fun

Izuku Midoriya (Dark Hero Arc) and Katsuki Bakugo (Final War Arc)

Attack Potency: 18.65 Teratons (Both), up to 93.25 Teratons with Fa Jin (Deku)
Durability (Both): 18.65 Teratons
Lifting Strength: 165,963,555,342,544 Metric Tons (Deku), >100 Metric Tons (Bakugo)
Speed: 0.77c (Deku), far higher with 100% and Fa Jin (Deku), >1.68c with Cluster (Bakugo)

Might Guy (War Arc) and Kakashi Hatake (Late Fourth Shinobi World War)

Attack Potency: 7 Teratons (Kakashi), 35 Teratons with Raikiri and Violent-Leaf Adamantine-Strength Whirlwind (Both)
Durability: 7 Teratons (Kakashi), 35 Teratons with the Seventh Gate (Guy)
Lifting Strength (Both): 1,321,953,400 Metric Tons
Speed: 0.14c (Kakashi), far higher with Raikiri (Kakashi), at least >1c with Kamui and the Seventh Gate (Both)


Deku and Bakugo have prior knowledge of Kakashi's Kamui
Bakugo starts in Cluster
Guy starts in the Seventh Gate


The Successor and an Explosion:
The Green Beast and the Copy Ninja: Aytugsss
Inconclusive:

 

[Kaydee1648]

Interesting.

Leaning towards All Might and Izuku here.

LS, AP, and base speed advantage go to the duo. Lee can’t really do anything here, and Might Guy only becomes relevant when he uses the 7th Gate, where his attacks are still inferior to the duo’s durability. The difference in speed isn’t so wide that it becomes a blitz, so the duo can still counterattack.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Uhhhhh.

Lee just straight up gets blitzed by with an almost 6x speed disadvantage. He's a non factor. Basically doesn't exist in the fight lol. Common Lee L

Guy on the other hand? 7g Guy's >1c value comes from him being far faster than someone who basically statued a 0.8c character. He'll just speed blitz the MHA duo.

 

[JPro_3002]

Lee is irrelevant in this fight unfortunately, and Guy is only able to fight back once he uses 7G, so it's either Guy pops that immediately and then gains the stats which allows him to compete (and probably win (2× AP & good FTL scaling)), or AM & Deku push immediately and the Green Duo get blitzed by a 5.5× speed diff & 1 shot. Deku also having precog should help with not allowing Guy to get his 7G off. There's also Deku multipliers that exceed Guy's. So I think 9/10 times the heroes win.

 

[Machmatej]

honestly, it seems to be an issue of who uses what amp first. Izuku can blitz and one-tap them both with Fa Jin, but Guy can just as easily do the same with the 7th Gate. i'm leaning towards the heroes because I feel like it's way more likely for Izuku to use his speed amp first than it is for Guy to transform.

 

[DavidTPPM]

This should be closed as a stomp tbh.

The only 2 options are either team A instantly blitzes and one shotsor team B instantly blitzes and one shots.

There's no option where this isn't a stomp. It's just a question of who does the stomping.

 

[Mommyleona]

This should be closed as a stomp tbh.

The only 2 options are either team A instantly blitzes and one shotsor team B instantly blitzes and one shots.

There's no option where this isn't a stomp. It's just a question of who does the stomping.

But that makes it not a stomp since both can win lol

 

[DavidTPPM]

But that makes it not a stomp since both can win lol

Having a win con doesn't make a fight not a stomp. A toddler with a knife has a wincon against prime bloodlusted Mike Tyson but I think we can both agree that's a stomp

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Having a win con doesn't make a fight not a stomp. A toddler with a knife has a wincon against prime bloodlusted Mike Tyson but I think we can both agree that's a stomp

Yeah the toddler stomps him

 

[MochOath]

This should be closed as a stomp tbh.

The only 2 options are either team A instantly blitzes and one shotsor team B instantly blitzes and one shots.

There's no option where this isn't a stomp. It's just a question of who does the stomping.

Guy can just start in the Seventh Gate
and Deku has his own blitz-level speed amps

 

[DavidTPPM]

Guy can just start in the Seventh Gate

This depends entirely on his idea of the situation. If he has any reason to believe 7th gate would be necessary he'll start with it right away, like with Juubidara.

But if he doesn't he won't use it leading to a quick stomp.

and Deku has his own blitz-level speed amps

Probably doesn't matter here ngl. Guy's scaling chain is absolutely crazy.
7g Guy is considered inhuman in comparison to Ay4. Ay4 could literally run a circle around MS Sasuke faster than Sasuke could even twitch without even using his fastest attack. MS Sasuke is baseline FTL.

That's far beyond your standard blitz amp.


Basically, depending on Guys state of mind he'll either start with the 7th gate and insta win or start with the 6th and insta lose.

 

[Mommyleona]

Having a win con doesn't make a fight not a stomp. A toddler with a knife has a wincon against prime bloodlusted Mike Tyson but I think we can both agree that's a stomp

Not really the same kind of situation at all

 

[DavidTPPM]

Not really the same kind of situation at all

I know, I was making a point about win cons not a comparison

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Is this tag team even allowed since All Might had already lost his powers long before Dark Hero Arc and hadn't fought alongside this version of Deku to boot?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

following

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Is this tag team even allowed since All Might had already lost his powers long before Dark Hero Arc and hadn't fought alongside this version of Deku to boot?

You can do tag teams of different keys as long as they've canonically fought before. so yes they can even though All Might already lost his powers.

 

[Kaydee1648]

I don’t think it’s a stomp but it’s somewhat unfair.

This is a 2v1 since lee is practically useless. He's about 3x weaker, 6x slower with gates, and a 100 thousand times weaker in LS. He just gets beaten lmao.

If Guy goes 7th gate, he becomes a blitz level faster than 1c, about 2x stronger than Izuku, and with an attack that can significantly burn them. Which then turns the table to his favour, and this becomes a beat down.

So i can see David’s point on this being a Stomp. Depending who uses their moves first.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I think stomp is thrown around too lightly. If the argument is that either side could realistically win and that both character's are at risk of being killed or k.o.'d if they don't play their cards right, that isn't a stomp. A quick battle doesn't mean a stomp battle. It's like saying a quick-draw between cowboys is a stomp. It's not. It's quick and decisive.

 

[Machmatej]

and Deku has his own blitz-level speed amps

only Fa Jin in this key. but Fa Jin needs time to charge, and while that charge time can be fast, it's still a one-time use before needing a recharge. Deku's speed amps only get crazy in his FWA key, which is when you get Gearshift and Overlay on top of Fa Jin and Danger Sense. But at that point his speed gets way higher than the 7th Gate.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sure if this isn't a stomp then Guy stomps.

SBA sets the starting distance at 4 kilometers so Guy is going to have enough time to notice the opponent moving at 5x higher speeds than himself, meaning he opens the 7th gate before Allmight and Deku even get near them.
After that he just speed blitzes and bullies them with 2x higher AP while Lee watches and glazes him from the back.

So yeah under SBA Guy wins 10/10 times alone.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Guess I am going with David’s reasoning, Guy and bum Lee FRA

 

[Machmatej]

Sure if this isn't a stomp then Guy stomps.

SBA sets the starting distance at 4 kilometers so Guy is going to have enough time to notice the opponent moving at 5x higher speeds than himself, meaning he opens the 7th gate before Allmight and Deku even get near them.
After that he just speed blitzes and bullies them with 2x higher AP while Lee watches and glazes him from the back.

So yeah under SBA Guy wins 10/10 times alone.

i don't follow this logic at all. their travel speed isn't 0.77c, their combat/reaction speed is. so, for Guy to even notice the speed difference, he'd have to get up close and personal and actually exchange blows. Deku would just spam shockwaves until he and All Might cross the 4km between them and activate Fa Jin when they're within like 100 meters to statue and obliterate them (there's like a 13x AP difference).

Deku and All Might in their base states are fast enough to pretty much bully Guy and Lee when they're in the 6th Gate. Fa Jin at 45% is enough to statue attacks that Deku previously struggled with, even with Danger Sense warning him about the incoming attacks (Danger Sense has been used to predict and dodge speedblitzing attacks). so the moment Deku pops Fa Jin, it's over.

and it's way more likely for Deku to use Fa Jin first than for Guy to pop the 7th Gate off rip. Deku twisting, turning and stretching his body mid-air to dodge some superbullets was enough to charge Faux 100%, so Fa Jin would be ready to go by the time he crosses those 4km.

 

[DemonicDude]

Deku and All Might works together often as they are teacher and student and has stopped of the top villains across the My hero universe, their synergy in this fight will be perfect and they both have combo moves as well from the movie against Wolfram.

 

[DavidTPPM]

i don't follow this logic at all. their travel speed isn't 0.77c, their combat/reaction speed is. so, for Guy to even notice the speed difference, he'd have to get up close and personal and actually exchange blows. Deku would just spam shockwaves until he and All Might cross the 4km between them

So Guy sees the shockwaves are more than 5x faster than himself and activates 7g exactly like I said.

Deku and All Might in their base states are fast enough to pretty much bully Guy and Lee when they're in the 6th Gate.

Yeah the difference is over 5x so unless Guy activates 7g the eyebrow duo is getting stomped.

Fa Jin at 45% is enough to statue attacks that Deku previously struggled with, even with Danger Sense warning him about the incoming attacks (Danger Sense has been used to predict and dodge speedblitzing attacks). so the moment Deku pops Fa Jin, it's over.

From what I'm reading Fa Jin is a one use attack that needs charging. That's not stopping Guy from blitzing them in 7th gate.

and it's way more likely for Deku to use Fa Jin first than for Guy to pop the 7th Gate off rip.

Maybe if they start at close range but if Guy sees Deku zoom across 4 kilometers while spamming shockwaves almost 6x faster than himself, especially with his dear student next to him, he's my just going to let himself get blitzed and killed.

Deku twisting, turning and stretching his body mid-air to dodge some superbullets was enough to charge Faux 100%, so Fa Jin would be ready to go by the time he crosses those 4km.

So he like, maybe dodges 1 punch from 7g Guy with Fa Jin and then gets blitzed.

 

[Machmatej]

So Guy sees the shockwaves are more than 5x faster than himself and activates 7g exactly like I said.

i doubt he's instantly gonna pop the 7th Gate unless he feels the impact from one of those shockwaves, and he's not dumb enough to not dodge.

Yeah the difference is over 5x so unless Guy activates 7g the eyebrow duo is getting stomped.

he's getting pummeled and obliterated, or at worst just restrained with Black Whip (just look at the LS difference lmao), before he gets the chance to activate it.

From what I'm reading Fa Jin is a one use attack that needs charging. That's not stopping Guy from blitzing them in 7th gate.

that's right, but that one move is enough to completely run through him before he activates the 7th Gate.

Maybe if they start at close range but if Guy sees Deku zoom across 4 kilometers while spamming shockwaves almost 6x faster than himself, especially with his dear student next to him, he's my just going to let himself get blitzed and killed.

Deku doesn't move while spamming the shockwaves, because otherwise his aim would be ass. besides, with his travel speed, he'd zoom through those 4km WAY slower than Guy's own combat/reaction speed (in base, not with Fa Jin). Deku's profile doesn't differentiate his travel speed at 45% but it would be like Hypersonic+. not enough to scare either of his opponents. the only real threat is gonna be in close quarters, where Guy and Lee get utterly pummeled and brutally LS diffed.

 

[DavidTPPM]

i doubt he's instantly gonna pop the 7th Gate unless he feels the impact from one of those shockwaves, and he's not dumb enough to not dodge.

Guy popped the 6th gate on Kisames clone when he was physically relative to him. Even 1st gate is a 5x amp and 3rd gate at least a 24x one btw.

If he notices a blitz tier difference in speed between his 6th gate and the MHA duo he absolutely would pop the 7th. Again ESPECIALLY because he has Lee to protect and Guy's entire thing about the gates was that they're meant to protect people dear to you.

Also again if your argument is that Guy doesn't use the 7th gate in character like this then he genuinely just gets blitzed and crushed before he can do anything which is a stomp, so which is it? Is this not a stomp because Guy can activate the 7th gate or is it a stomp because he gets blitzed and no diffed instantly? Pick already

he's getting pummeled and obliterated, or at worst just restrained with Black Whip (just look at the LS difference lmao),

The LS difference is extra hilarious because the value is from S&S moving at rel+ speeds but the exact same argument for Naruto characters, which would include Guy, was rejected.

"I get to be class P because I lifted 0 kg while moving at rel+ speed but you can't get class P for lifting 2kg at rel+ speed"

before he gets the chance to activate it.

That's called a stomp.

Also not happening because Guy has solid 25 seconds to activate it at sub-rel speed.

that's right, but that one move is enough to completely run through him before he activates the 7th Gate.

Allmight took 30 seconds to travel 5 kilometers here. I'm sure Guy has enough time to activate it.

Deku doesn't move while spamming the shockwaves, because otherwise his aim would be ass. besides, with his travel speed, he'd zoom through those 4km WAY slower than Guy's own combat/reaction speed (in base, not with Fa Jin). Deku's profile doesn't differentiate his travel speed at 45% but it would be like Hypersonic+. not enough to scare either of his opponents. the only real threat is gonna be in close quarters, where Guy and Lee get utterly pummeled and brutally LS diffed.

YOU said Deku would spam shockwaves before him and AM close the 4 kilometers.

So Guy will undoubtedly know to activate the 7th gate at which he's speed blitzing both.

 

[Machmatej]

Guy popped the 6th gate on Kisames clone when he was physically relative to him. Even 1st gate is a 5x amp and 3rd gate at least a 24x one btw.

it's been a while since i watched Naruto, so i might be misremembering. but as far as i know, Guy only used the 6th Gate to finish the fight as fast as possible because his students were actively running out of air and drowning. and the Inner Gates don't multiply his speed, so it would make sense for him to use the 6th Gate which gives him the most notable jump in speed.

If he notices a blitz tier difference in speed between his 6th gate and the MHA duo he absolutely would pop the 7th. Again ESPECIALLY because he has Lee to protect and Guy's entire thing about the gates was that they're meant to protect people dear to you.

and i never argued against this. my argument is that Guy would only feel the speed difference in close quarters, when it would be too late to activate it as he'd either get obliterated with Fa Jin or instantly incapacitated with the giant LS difference.

Also again if your argument is that Guy doesn't use the 7th gate in character like this then he genuinely just gets blitzed and crushed before he can do anything which is a stomp, so which is it? Is this not a stomp because Guy can activate the 7th gate or is it a stomp because he gets blitzed and no diffed instantly? Pick already

it's not a stomp because Guy also has a very good win condition. the argument is literally who uses their insta-win amp first, so i'm arguing for Deku because he uses his blitz + one-tap amp more frequently? it's not that hard of a concept to understand.

The LS difference is extra hilarious because the value is from S&S moving at rel+ speeds but the exact same argument for Naruto characters, which would include Guy, was rejected.

"I get to be class P because I lifted 0 kg while moving at rel+ speed but you can't get class P for lifting 2kg at rel+ speed"

mad for no reason. Star's feat is also getting removed soon, but Class P is still on the table because the verse has an actual Class P feat along with like 3 or 4 more Class T feats to support it.

That's called a stomp.

stop calling everything a stomp.

Also not happening because Guy has solid 25 seconds to activate it at sub-rel speed.

Allmight took 30 seconds to travel 5 kilometers here. I'm sure Guy has enough time to activate it

All Might took a second to cross like 9 kilometers, and Deku can cross 200 kilometers in an instant with Fa Jin, with Fa Jin also letting him move like a good couple of hundred meters while the superbullet previously on par with his speed was completely frozen.

YOU said Deku would spam shockwaves before him and AM close the 4 kilometers.

yeah? Deku spams shockwaves while All Might crosses the distance, and then Deku instantly teleports there with Fa Jin when All Might stops 100 meters away. i guess it's a problem with my wording.

So Guy will undoubtedly know to activate the 7th gate at which he's speed blitzing both.

whatever bro

 

[Saqphire]

Team MHA horribly stat diffs. I don't see anything that might actually edge out the win for Lee and Guy here having read the stats in the OP. Their LS and their speed alone makes it an easy win as All Might would unironically full nelson Guy here or some shit like that

 

[MochOath]

this match is kinda cooked anyway unless Guy can deal with Fa-Jin blitzes in speed equalized

 

[DavidTPPM]

it's been a while since i watched Naruto, so i might be misremembering. but as far as i know, Guy only used the 6th Gate to finish the fight as fast as possible because his students were actively running out of air and drowning.

Not really? I mean they were in a water bubble but they legit escaped without Guys help

and the Inner Gates don't multiply his speed,

They do. They're an all around stat multiplier..

and i never argued against this. my argument is that Guy would only feel the speed difference in close quarters,

"I never argued against this"
proceeds to argue against this

There's no reason Guy shouldn't notice the speed of the shockwaves is immensely above his own. Guy could instantly tell Sasuke is moving exactly at the same speed as weightless Lee just by seeing him move, if an attack nearly 6x faster than himself flied towards him he's undoubtedly going to notice the speed difference.

when it would be too late to activate it as he'd either get obliterated with Fa Jin or instantly incapacitated with the giant LS difference.

Which would mean Guy has absolutely no way of winning and the match is a stomp? Like a certain someone already noted…

it's not a stomp because Guy also has a very good win condition.

Having a win condition doesn't matter if you don't use it in an actual match. Just because Kakashi could technically genjutsu Zeno even when he doesn't do so in character doesn't mean 7B subrel Kakashi vs 1-C MFTL+ Zeno isn't a stomp.

If you're arguing that Guy won't go 7G even if he were to see shockwaves more than 2x stronger and 5x faster than himself then you're literally arguing the ability is so out of character it's not a win con anymore.

the argument is literally who uses their insta-win amp first, so i'm arguing for Deku because he uses his blitz + one-tap amp more frequently? it's not that hard of a concept to understand.

And you're arguing Guy won't use his even as stomp level shockwaves approach his defenseless student which means the ability is not a win con.

stop calling everything a stomp.

I'm not calling everything a stomp. I'm calling a speed blitz with a large AP advantage a stomp. That is the most textbook example of a stomp there is.

All Might took a second to cross like 9 kilometers, and Deku can cross 200 kilometers in an instant with Fa Jin, with Fa Jin also letting him move like a good couple of hundred meters while the superbullet previously on par with his speed was completely frozen.

Okay so they have crazy travel speed? Great I completely agree.
Guy took about a day to travel 5040 kilometers which is 0.06 kilometers per second, or about 150x lower travel speed than Allmight and, assuming "instant" is 1 second, 3400x lower travel speed than Deku.

So Guy will see they have crazy high travel speed AND shockwave spam speed which gives him an additional reason to use 7th gate right away.

Also even a fraction of a second would feel like an hour for subrel characters so them having super fast travel speed actually doesn't help them stop Guy form using 7th gate whatsoever. It just makes him even more likely to use it from the start.

yeah? Deku spams shockwaves while All Might crosses the distance, and then Deku instantly teleports there with Fa Jin when All Might stops 100 meters away. i guess it's a problem with my wording.

Yeah I agree.

So Guy will see the insane speed of Dekus shockwaves and immediately realize he needs the 7th gate.

I once again wholeheartedly agree with you and I'm just telling you that it works in Guys favor.

 

[DavidTPPM]

this match is kinda cooked anyway unless Guy can deal with Fa-Jin blitzes in speed equalized

Unfortunately Guy is a bum

 

[RidleyX]

Allmight took 30 seconds to travel 5 kilometers here. I'm sure Guy has enough time to activate it.

Do you have evidence of this? Because 30 seconds included the time it took for All Might to defeat the Nomu at the bar before heading off to where AfO is,

There's no way to split the difference reliably

 

[Raiden38]

Guy FRA

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Do you have evidence of this? Because 30 seconds included the time it took for All Might to defeat the Nomu at the bar before heading off to where AfO is,

There's no way to split the difference reliably

Most of the 30 seconds was just All Might talking to people btw

 

[JoeDM021]

AM and Deku FRA (Reasons: @Machmatej )

 

[karo_senpaii]

Why call this a tag team match if Lee is a cheer leader? Like you might as well have just said guy Vs both of them.

Switch lee with someone else, for example kakashi or just remove him entirely.. let's not deceive ourselves saying this is a team match

 

[MochOath]

Why call this a tag team match if Lee is a cheer leader? Like you might as well have just said guy Vs both of them.

its not my fault Lee has fraudulent scaling

Switch lee with someone else, for example kakashi

Sharingan Genjutsu bars Kakashi from matchups
and it doesnt get rid of the blitz problem

maybe ill just switch the matchup to AFO vs Madara

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

its not my fault Lee has fraudulent scaling

Truth Nuke

Sharingan Genjutsu bars Kakashi from matchups
and it doesnt get rid of the blitz problem

maybe ill just switch the matchup to AFO vs Madara

Kakshi doesn’t use genjutsu in character

 

[karo_senpaii]

its not my fault Lee has fraudulent scaling

Sharingan Genjutsu bars Kakashi from matchups
and it doesnt get rid of the blitz problem

maybe ill just switch the matchup to AFO vs Madara

Kakashi doesn't really use genjutsu as much in part 2, though I guess it may be due to the people he's facing.
The sharingan prevents kakashi from being blitzed

 

[MochOath]

alr then switching it from mentors and mentees to peers vs peers