Tokyo Revengers: Removing Anime Feats

[Lilybitdun]

Currently the verse has a problem, it uses anime only feats when it's only tertiary cannon

• Entirely new feats of tertiary canon, like for example new abilities, should be disregarded. Details added to existing fight scenes, such as damage caused to the surroundings, can be accepted for text based media like books.

Feats that need to be removed:

Three of these come from an anime extension of this fight, so I'll group them together

Image Chest

Post with 35 views.

imgchest.com

Source: Chapter 58

Spoiler: The Chapter 58 "Feats"

Baji shatters a windshield

vsbattles.fandom.com

Baji shattering a windshield and his speed compared to it doesn't happen in the manga, it's an anime only addition
Like I had brought up before

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Vzearr/Dude,_another_one%3F

Baji being able to blitz at a level nearly 130x faster than a grunt is not shown in the manga fight
Not only is it a clear case of evading punches since Baji can get tagged by regular grunts but it also goes against the supersonic cap discussion rule

No name Toman member kicks fast

vsbattles.fandom.com

Just like the other two this feat doesn't exist in the manga

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Vzearr/Taiju_smashes_a_bunch_of_dudes

Tokyo revengers : some lifting strength calculations

vsbattles.fandom.com

Two calcs of the same scene
Was hard to find the source since the former's link is dead and the latter doesn't even link the source but it's Episode 33 / Chapter 105

The feat comes from an anime extension of a SINGLE MANGA PANEL
pretty obvious why these two need to be removed

There's plenty of more faulty calcs that need to purged/fixed (Dalesean seemed to be interested on covering that based off what was said in the speed cap thread) but this thread is purely just for ones that rely on the anime

These are more calc related issues, but was told might as well cover them and be done with it

These use the anime for the pixelscaling when the manga should be used

Spoiler: Why are you using the anime for pixelscaling

Tokyo revenger feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

In the "Kisaki Saves Mikey" calc it uses this for the distance Tetta Kisaki was from Mikey

Image Chest

Post with 26 views.

imgchest.com

This is obviously problematic if you watch the anime scene since it shows the grunt (it's valhalla captain chouji btw) being a further distance a moment after

The manga version of the feat doesn't have this problem

Also like assuming he's moving baseline Athletic Human speeds when he's falling is weird

This one is probably salvageable if recalced using the manga version

Source: Chapter 56

Tokyo revenger calc blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Should be using manga panels for the distance Hanma got flung

Making Hanma, who is comparable (if not inferior) to Draken, like 15x faster than him is clearly violation of evading punches. How did this get accepted probably via leaving no context to see the flaws

Only the anime shows Hanma outmoving Draken to this degree, the manga version doesn't do this

Agnaa already listed disapproval of the measured distance in the blog too

Floxy pointed out it should use more than just the fist for mass too

Source: Chapter 54

Tokyo Revengers: Mikey Patada

vsbattles.fandom.com

Kind of a bonus but funnily enough this calc has the opposite problem of the others, the anime timeframe end should be used since the Subsonic+ end uses the old way that blitz timeframes were done. Nerfs it to Subsonic

god I hate how badly named these blogs are

Here's a list of the feats purposed to be removed as a TL;DR

Spoiler: Remove These

Baji shatters a windshield

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Vzearr/Dude,_another_one%3F

No name Toman member kicks fast

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Vzearr/Taiju_smashes_a_bunch_of_dudes

Tokyo revengers : some lifting strength calculations

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Vzearr/Tokyo_revenger_feats: Kisaki Saves Mikey

Tokyo revenger calc blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree (5 non-staff, 4 CGMs, 3 staff): Aksh_sky, Robo432343, MorrisHatesYou, Viott, Syncornize, M3X_2.0, Floxy178, KLOL506, LephyrTheRevanchist, Dalesean027, Nierre
Disagree:
Neutral (1 non-staff, 1 staff): MorrisHatesYou (Baji's and Taiju's feats as listed here), Nierre (Taiju's feat as listed here)

 

[Aksh_sky]

So far, it looks ok.

 

[LostLightt]

Currently the verse has a problem, it uses anime only feats when it's only tertiary cannon

Can u prove it's only tertiary canon.

Like I can argue against the whole thread but u aint even prove ur premise that u claimed.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Can u prove it's only tertiary canon.

Like I can argue against the whole thread but u aint even prove ur premise that u claimed.

The anime adaptation of a manga work is always automatically assumed to be a tertiary canon, making it more than that requires a CRT

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canonical, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others). Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them. It should be noted that this is often evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material. When other source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that contradict the tertiary canon in the depiction of the feat, the others take precedence. And here as well, if the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority.

Canon

Canon is a term used to designate works that are generally accepted as the genuine work that apply to the fictional verse. With few possible exceptions only canon material is featured in the character pages, with non-canon material to be ignored. The generally agreed-upon definition is that the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Which was attempted and immediately shut down in this thread

Tokyo Revengers - Speed Cap

This thread has been approved and will be supervised by big Reiner himself. Is The Anime Canon? The Tokyo Revengers anime is faithful to the Tokyo Revengers manga, except in one case in season 3, where they change Smiley vs Kakucho to Takemichi vs Kakucho. Which is the only scene changed from...

vsbattles.com

So if you want to argue against the anime being only tertiary cannon you need to come with more proof than Vzear's attempt
It's not something I need to prove as it's the default assumption

 

[Chritin]

Can u prove it's only tertiary canon.

Like I can argue against the whole thread but u aint even prove ur premise that u claimed.

Anime adaptations of manga by their very nature are tertiary to the original work. He doesn't need to prove that. At best, an anime adaptation is distinct enough to where it deserves its own pages and scaling, but this is VERY rare and limited to only a few series I can think of like Dragonball & Devilman.

Even if you want to argue it's secondary canon, there's no reason you should exclusively be using anime versions of feats of thing which can be calculated with the manga alone. Usually we only allow it for some things like timeframes when cinematic time doesn't come into play, but that's case by case.

 

[LostLightt]

The anime adaptation of a manga work is always automatically assumed to be a tertiary canon, making it more than that requires a CRT

Canon

Canon is a term used to designate works that are generally accepted as the genuine work that apply to the fictional verse. With few possible exceptions only canon material is featured in the character pages, with non-canon material to be ignored. The generally agreed-upon definition is that the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Which was attempted and immediately shut down in this thread

Tokyo Revengers - Speed Cap

This thread has been approved and will be supervised by big Reiner himself. Is The Anime Canon? The Tokyo Revengers anime is faithful to the Tokyo Revengers manga, except in one case in season 3, where they change Smiley vs Kakucho to Takemichi vs Kakucho. Which is the only scene changed from...

vsbattles.com

So if you want to argue against the anime being only tertiary cannon you need to come with more proof than Vzear's attempt
It's not something I need to prove as it's the default assumption

U still aint prove that its not canon, nothing in the text u quoted says its my burden

Anime adaptations of manga by their very nature are tertiary to the original work. He doesn't need to prove that. At best, an anime adaptation is distinct enough to where it deserves its own pages and scaling, but this is VERY rare and limited to only a few series I can think of like Dragonball & Devilman.

Even if you want to argue it's secondary canon, there's no reason you should exclusively be using anime versions of feats of thing which can be calculated with the manga alone. Usually we only allow it for some things like timeframes when cinematic time doesn't come into play, but that's case by case.

das not even what teriary means, bro.

The anime feats r literally only used for the reasons u stated

 

[Chritin]

The anime feats r literally only used for the reasons u stated

Clearly not? You are using entirely unique feats to the anime, and or using pixel scaling from the anime when the manga can be used.

 

[LostLightt]

Clearly not? You are using entirely unique feats to the anime, and or using pixel scaling from the anime when the manga can be used.

nun of these r unique, all the fights happen in the manga and some are spotted to a tea

 

[Lilybitdun]

nun of these r unique, all the fights happen in the manga and some are spotted to a tea

Now I know you're being disingenuous

I posted the scans for the entire Chapter 58 Baji vs 50 delinquents manga fight and all three calcs associated with the fight use things that only appear in the anime version

My OP points out various moments where the anime is different from the manga for these feats

If you are not going to give any input of value here please do not interact, keep in mind this is a CGM thread

 

[LostLightt]

Now I know you're being disingenuous

Repeat that

I posted the scans for the entire Chapter 58 Baji vs 50 delinquents manga fight and all three calcs associated with the fight use things that only appear in the anime version

If u read my argument instead of trying to "expose me" u'd realise I said all the fights happen in the manga, did this fight, with baji and the 50 goons happen in the manga? Ye

My OP points out various moments where the anime is different from the manga for these feats

It kinda don't, u show the fights then say the fights happen and the anime makes them more detailed so the anime aint canon

If you are not going to give any input of value here please do not interact, keep in mind this is a CGM thread

Make a betta thread then and don't accuse me of being disingenuous with no basis lol

 

[LostLightt]

I also jst read Baji can be tagged by goons, and I'm questioning u, once vapes sends me this scan I'm gonna have a laugh, because mid tiers being comp to no names is hilarious to me, but it's not ur fault cause idk if u read the manga so yh dw bout that it aint ur fault

 

[Robo432343]

I agree with the thread

 

[Lilybitdun]

I also jst read Baji can be tagged by goons

I like how you just admitted you responded before fully reading through the OP, good job nephew

 

[LostLightt]

I dont even need vapes actually I jst read the name of the scan. It's literally Ryusei saving Baji.

• Dodging and blocking a hit dont mean dodging makes u faster
• Blocking can mean ur massively faster since u have to move more distance
• Baji lifts his hand up, then thinks, attempts to punch, then rethinks, then blocks. Cause his mom said no fighting.
• The goon could have been 1mm away from baji by that time, u dk if they comp
• The feat is contradicted when Ryusei massively outspeeds the same goon that hit him from behind

If u read the manga u would realise Baji slamming 50 goons would imply he's not comp to them

 

[LostLightt]

I like how you just admitted you responded before fully reading through the OP, good job nephew

I already implied that I didn't fully read the OP

Can u prove it's only tertiary canon.

Like I can argue against the whole thread but u aint even prove ur premise that u claimed.

U aint even prove the thing ur whole argument is based on so I aint need to read the whole thing

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Can u prove it's only tertiary canon.

Like I can argue against the whole thread but u aint even prove ur premise that u claimed.

That is what's accepted currently on the wiki; also, this is a calc thread, so non-calc members shouldn't talk unless they can directly contribute.

With that said, stop with the spam and stone-walling. If you are not gonna contribute to the thread, don't comment and make it harder for the others to evaluate it.

 

[Lilybitdun]

U aint even prove the thing ur whole argument is based on so I aint need to read the whole thing

I already quoted and directly linked the Canon page that says anime adaptations are automatically assumed to be tertiary, there is nothing that I have to prove

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canonical, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others). Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them. It should be noted that this is often evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material. When other source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that contradict the tertiary canon in the depiction of the feat, the others take precedence. And here as well, if the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority.

The manga's, the source material, has priority over the anime unless it's proven otherwise

The burden of proof is on you to prove the anime's canonicity is higher than tertiary

 

[LostLightt]

That is what's accepted currently on the wiki; also, this is a calc thread, so non-calc members shouldn't talk unless they can directly contribute.

With that said, stop with the spam and stone-walling. If you are not gonna contribute to the thread, don't comment and make it harder for the others to evaluate it.

First of all prove that. second of all prove I'm not contributing, third of of prove my rebunks aren't valid. U can't, so stop claiming it

 

[LostLightt]

I already quoted and directly linked the Canon page that says anime adaptations are automatically assumed to be tertiary, there is nothing that I have to prove

The manga's, the source material, has priority over the anime unless it's proven otherwise

The burden of proof is on you to prove the anime's canonicity is higher than tertiary

Ur argument is contradicted when the anime is overseen by wakui

And stop shifting burdens of proof lol

 

[Lilybitdun]

Ur argument is contradicted when the anime is overseen by wakui

And stop shifting burdens of proof lol

That is literally the exact same argument vzearr tried to use in the thread I linked before

Which was attempted and immediately shut down in this thread

Tokyo Revengers - Speed Cap

This thread has been approved and will be supervised by big Reiner himself. Is The Anime Canon? The Tokyo Revengers anime is faithful to the Tokyo Revengers manga, except in one case in season 3, where they change Smiley vs Kakucho to Takemichi vs Kakucho. Which is the only scene changed from...

vsbattles.com

So if you want to argue against the anime being only tertiary cannon you need to come with more proof than Vzear's attempt
It's not something I need to prove as it's the default assumption

I'll stop giving responses and wait for staff to evaluate since I'm not going to make pointless arguments against clear stonewalling to not clutter up this thread

 

[LostLightt]

That is literally the exact same argument vzearr tried to use in the thread I linked before

how was it debunked, Ur not debunking my shit and just saying its wrong, mate

I'll stop giving responses and wait for staff to evaluate since I'm not going to make pointless arguments against clear stonewalling to not clutter up this thread

prove im stonewalling

 

[LostLightt]

yall saying im doing all this and aint proving it, i should report yall

 

[LostLightt]

also if u aint gonna argue against someone who read the manga then ur just relying on non manga readers to verify ur thread

since u only counted votes from people but not manga readers LOL

Ts gotta be not allowed.

U have to argue with me, otherwise that's what I'd call disingenuous in my honest opinion

 

[Chritin]

It kinda don't, u show the fights then say the fights happen and the anime makes them more detailed so the anime aint canon

This is exactly the problem. We DO NOT allow anime exclusive additions. It doesn't matter how you think they "expand the fight" if the anime does something entirely different to the manga, that is not primary cannon. It's a rule of the wiki, as basic as no KE of FTL stuff. Like there isn't even an argument here, if they do not happen in the manga then you can't scale them to the manga.

Ur argument is contradicted when the anime is overseen by wakui

Oversight does not imply cannonicity. Many mangaka help make decisions for their anime, but they are usually superficial clarifications unrelated to the content. Even if he did have his hand in every scene, AGAIN, things that don't happen in the manga are not canon.

yall saying im doing all this and aint proving it, i should report yall

also if u aint gonna argue against someone who read the manga then ur just relying on non manga readers to verify ur thread

since u only counted votes from people but not manga readers LOL

Ts gotta be not allowed.

U have to argue with me, otherwise that's what I'd call disingenuous in my honest opinion

We are arguing with you, but you are being excessively rude. Also, I ain't here to argue the manga. I could care less about TR, but I have a fundamental will to argue against blatant wanked calcs and improper feats.

 

[Chritin]

Also, I understand this is CGM thread so I'll keep most other responses to a minimum. Also also, I know my vote doesn't count but I am in favor of the removals.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

This guy is going for a ban speedrun

 

[Random-Helper323]

Alright, can everyone stop this behaviour, please?

LostLightt, try to be less touchy. Everyone else, please stop provoking LostLightt.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll comment later when im off work

 

[DaReaperMan]

@Armorchompy @M3X_2.0
Can you two please comment here? And maybe help reign in the extreme traded hostility?

 

[LostLightt]

This is exactly the problem. We DO NOT allow anime exclusive additions. It doesn't matter how you think they "expand the fight" if the anime does something entirely different to the manga, that is not primary cannon. It's a rule of the wiki, as basic as no KE of FTL stuff. Like there isn't even an argument here, if they do not happen in the manga then you can't scale them to the manga.

they happen in the manga, if the anime expands on what happens in the manga, that thing still happens in the manga, ur wrong

Oversight does not imply cannonicity. Many mangaka help make decisions for their anime, but they are usually superficial clarifications unrelated to the content. Even if he did have his hand in every scene, AGAIN, things that don't happen in the manga are not canon.

he oversaw it and the anime literally is directly the same as the manga in every sense, if that aint canon idk what is

We are arguing with you, but you are being excessively rude. Also, I ain't here to argue the manga. I could care less about TR, but I have a fundamental will to argue against blatant wanked calcs and improper feats.

ur the one whos calling me disengenous and stonewalling

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Alright, can everyone stop this behaviour, please?

LostLightt, try to be less touchy. Everyone else, please stop provoking LostLightt.

I agree,
This message is for everyone, not just Lostlight. Since this is a Calculation group discussion thread, please make sure your messages are relevant to the topic. If you don’t have anything informative to add, kindly refrain from posting here.

This message can also be seen on top of thread page.

Calc Group Discussion
A board serving as a workshop for the calc group, to more easily discuss different calculations and wiki projects. Other members should only comment if they can provide information, or it is otherwise useful for a discussion.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll comment later anyways, the calcs themself are bunk themselves our standards on anime canon aside so they'd need to be nuked either way.

But yeah the anime canon was rejected in the last thread so on that note there's no even much to discuss those do need to be removed regardless of any math issues and is more a content thing rather than a calc thing since its about anime canon shit

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Currently the verse has a problem, it uses anime only feats when it's only tertiary cannon

First things first: This is handled on a CRT, not a calc group one.

Calc Group forum is for discussing the validity of calcs and their implementation when two different results of calcs for the same scene exists.

What you are suggesting here is for canonicity stuff, not a problem with the calc itself.

Also like assuming he's moving baseline Athletic Human speeds when he's falling is weird

This one is probably salvageable if recalced using the manga version

Source: Chapter 56

Tokyo revenger calc blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Should be using manga panels for the distance Hanma got flung

Making Hanma, who is comparable (if not inferior) to Draken, like 15x faster than him is clearly violation of evading punches. How did this get accepted probably via leaving no context to see the flaws

Agnaa already listed disapproval of the measured distance in the blog too

Source: Chapter 54
[/SPOILER]

Tokyo Revengers: Mikey Patada

vsbattles.fandom.com

Kind of a bonus but funnily enough this calc has the opposite problem of the others, the anime timeframe end should be used since the Subsonic+ end uses the old way that blitz timeframes were done. Nerfs it to Subsonic

These ones should've been handled separately on the Calc Group Forum, as these actually show calc problems

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But yeah the anime canon was rejected in the last thread so on that note there's no even much to discuss those do need to be removed regardless of any math issues and is more a content thing rather than a calc thing since its about anime canon shit

That's fair enough.

 

[LostLightt]

I'll comment later anyways, the calcs themself are bunk themselves our standards on anime canon aside so they'd need to be nuked either way.

Aint u the dude who accepted the hypersonic calc?

But yeah the anime canon was rejected in the last thread so on that note there's no even much to discuss those do need to be removed regardless of any math issues and is more a content thing rather than a calc thing since its about anime canon shit

why'd it get rejected

 

[Arkenis]

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

 

[Dalesean027]

Aint u the dude who accepted the hypersonic calc?

Nope the inital version wasn't that the blog was edited and re-accepted by someone else but I never accepted that version of that blog

 

[LostLightt]

That's fair enough.

I jst looked at the last thread and it was rejected by dalesean027 because he said we dont take pity on verses for not having sufficient evidence.

Ts contradicts the vsbw case by case basis and also contradicts that the anime is faithful to the manga and is supervised by the author

 

[LostLightt]

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

btw none of the feats are contradicted, they're expanded on the fights, where r u getting a contradiction lol?

 

[Dalesean027]

I jst looked at the last thread and it was rejected by dalesean027 because he said we dont take pity on verses for not having sufficient evidence.

Ts contradicts the vsbw case by case basis and also contradicts that the anime is faithful to the manga and is supervised by the author

Brother you have to prove that, the last one was specifcally rejected since even OP said they dont have any proof to meet site standards and begged we make a exception which is a no go