God of War CRT: Scaling Overhaul Part 1

[Planck69]

Introduction​

So, this is another revision prompted by new information in Sons of Sparta. This time we will be tackling and overhauling the current scaling of the Greek Gods.

Primordials​

As it currently stands, Cronos and the other Titans generally scale over the Primordials based on Cronos having overcome his father in a direct confrontation of cosmic scale. That is unfortunately not the case, as the newest game, whose canonicity and priority far trump the Word-of-God used for the former, confirms. It more closely follows the mythical version of events, in that Cronos had to castrate his father with a sickle forged for him by Gaia. Even this was only after Hyperion, Coeus, Crius and Iapetus had pinned Ouranos's physical body down after he was caught unawares.

Not only that but Cronos's own scythe is confirmed to amplify his power as even a fragment of the metal it is made of improves the force of one's impacts. Hyperion himself had already been imbued with Chaos's primordial fire, which is on the same level as and no different from the Primordial Fires of the Norse lands that birthed Surtr, yet was only one of four Titans that needed to pin down Ouranos while he was off-guard. Ouranos himself is so powerful that he had captured and banished all the Titans and Giants to Tartarus by his lonesome. And while he emerged victorious, the fact that the war between the primeval gods lasted an eternity is more than enough proof that they are all comparable to each other.

This isn't the only bit of new information affirming their power at the top of the totem pole. Nyx's domain, which is the Primordial herself, can never be known or conquered by anyone. Her own children, Death, Dream and Strife are such that no one dares challenge them, Titan nor Olympian. And we know that these offspring are Primordials as the war between them specifically started after the first to emerge from Chaos had offspring of their own. This in fact isn't even new information, as Thanatos being feared by the gods themselves is something that was already revealed before.

One might mention Helios repelling Nyx everyday as a counter to the above, but we also learn that it is in Nyx's intrinsic nature to retreat from her daughter Hemera, the Day, to whom Helios is merely a harbinger of. Thus, this is a case of elemental rejection rather than Helios directly overpowering her.

Overall, the Primordials are very clearly the most powerful generation of gods. With each of them at the least dwarfing the Titans as a whole and being unchallenged by both the Titans and Olympians, putting them above even Zeus.

Titans​

Since the current scaling is incorrect, it would thus be replaced by scaling to the World Pillar directly. Atlas, even in a weakened state, is capable of taking the place of the World Pillar that stabilizes reality and prevents all of creation from reverting back to Chaos, the void. Thus he is directly Low Complex Multiversal in physical statistics and Immeasurable in Lifting Strength.

Helios's power was necessary for Atlas to shatter the World Pillar and bring an end to creation. Since he directly scales to the pillar, he would also be Low Complex Multiverse level in physical statistics via being able to damage and destroy the World Pillar.

Hyperion would be Low Complex Multiversal in physical statistics, as Helios himself is imbued with the same Primordial Fire as his father Hyperion, which is currently synonymous to Primordial magics that created the likes of Ymir and Surtr.

Cronos was the leader of the Titans and the one behind whom they all rallied, being so powerful that Atlas considered his safety equivalent to their cause being won. He could fight on par with all of his children as of the time of the war, though he was defeated in turn. He would of course also be Low Complex Multiversal in physical statistics. He is also Immeasurable in Lifting Strength, as he could force Hades to exert effort to capture his soul, with the latter being able to succeed with Atlas, albeit after Poseidon aided him.

Perses could directly crush Helios in his hand as well as weather attacks from the latter so he would also be Low Complex Multiverse level in physical statistics.

Oceanus could challenge Poseidon enough to make him marshal all his power to defeat the latter and as such, he would also be Low Complex Multiverse level in physical statistics.

Olympians​

The Olympians are the current rulers of the cosmos, the "best and wisest of the immortals" according to Lycurgus in the game itself. That said, the power differences between them are nowhere near as large as they currently are on the profile, which imply Zeus can effortlessly annihilate the others with a causal blast.

Apollo would have waged war against Poseidon and vice versa, had Hestia chosen the other in marriage, which wouldn't make sense if there was a colossal gap between them and Artemis is outright a fiercer foe in combat than her brother. Not only that but Nike was capable of shielding Zeus from Typhon's blows, despite being weaker than Poseidon, who is explicitly the most powerful god on Olympus after Zeus. As such, the Attack Potency descriptions of Zeus and the rest will be adjusted accordingly.

Hermes Downgrade​

Since the Titans are no longer inherently superior to the Primordials by default, Hermes feat of fighting the Titans is no longer valid for Low 1-C. While he technically fights Kratos, not the "fight" is just a series of counters and grabs that barely lasts long, but it's also pretty clearly game mechanics, as Hermes at his peak is already inferior to Athena, who Kratos is far beyond, let alone his weakened state. As such, for current lack of feats, his attack potency, striking strength and durability would be Unknown. His speed remains unchanged.

Thanatos/Gaia Issue​

As it currently stands, Thanatos was slain by a Kratos who was not yet a god. Yet all of the above information affirms that he and the other Primordials are comparable and far beyond any Olympian. Given the nature of his death we have decided to mark this moment as an Outlier for Kratos at this time specifically.

Likewise, Gaia herself being comparable to her Primordial brethren isn't as much of an issue as the moment she could angle herself, she knocked Poseidon out of his elemental form in a single punch once she managed to land a hit, with Zeus needing to actively enter his domain and charge up an attack to injure her hand. Especially with the gap between Poseidon and Zeus no longer being utterly insurmountable.

Here are their newly updated profiles to fit with the recent changes.

• Gaia
• Thanatos

TL;DR​

• Primordials are the most powerful generation of gods, each being beyond even Zeus.
• There are power gaps between Olympians, but they're on the same general level for the most part.
• The Titans get reworked scaling and justifications.
• Updated profiles for Gaia and Thanatos.
• Kratos's battle with Thanatos is an outlier for him, especially as he isn't fully even a god at the time.
• Hermes gets downgraded to Unknown for his physicals.

Titans not scaling directly to Ouranos
Agree: 6 - KingTempest, Reiner04, Random-Helper323 (Also believes in grounds for downscaling Titans), Theglassman12 (Though he believes a downscale is warranted), emirp sumitpo, LephyrTheRevanchist

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 0

Kratos vs Thanatos being an outlier
Agree: 2 - KingTempest, Reiner04

Disagree: 5 - DarkDragonMedeus, Elizhaa, Theglassman12, emirp sumitpo, LephyrTheRevanchist

Neutral: 1 - Random-Helper323

Primordials scaling above Olympians and Zeus
Agree: 5 ( - KingTempest, Reiner04, FinePoint, Planck69, LephyrTheRevanchist)

Disagree: 3 ( - DarkDragonMedeus, Elizhaa, Theglassman12)

Neutral: 2 ( - Random-Helper323, emirp sumitpo)

 

[Planck69]

@Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @Reiner04 @Random-Helper323 @KingTempest @Emirp sumitpo @Dalesean027 @FinePoint

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

Having discussed this with you, I obviously agree.

 

[Reiner04]

that Cronos had to castrate his father with a sickle forged for him by Gaia.

Wtf

Thread looks fine to me, so i don't have any issue with it.

 

[Planck69]

Wtf

Dude got jumped by his kids while trying to get tail. Sad way to go.

Thread looks fine to me, so i don't have any issue with it.

Aite.

 

[Natsuki012]

Wtf

this is true btw

 

[KingTempest]

So it removes the cliffing of the primordials (YESSSSS) while scaling them directly to the cosmology and upscaling the primordials

Nice.

Looks fine

 

[Stefano4444]

Kratos had already the title and power of the God of War when he fought and killed Thanatos.

Athena's quote was about Kratos losing the last connections of his life as a mortal with the deaths of Deimos, allow him to embrace his life as a god.

Only to tell her to f**k off asking if this was a game for her making clear that he isn't going to forget this.

I don't know why this would be and outlier since Kratos initially was struggling to beat Thanatos and only when his anger reach its peak after Deimos's died he started overpower Thanatos.

 

[Planck69]

Kratos was already the title and power of the God of War when he fought and killed Thanatos.

Athena's quote was about Kratos losing the last connections of his life as a mortal with the deaths of Deimos, allow him to embrace his life as a god.

Athena was very clearly passing on his godhead to him at the Suicide Bluffs. He showcases nothing that really implies godhood prior to that point. The official website itself confirms that he was still on his way to ascending to godhood as well. As of that point, he was a god in name but not in full.

Only to tell her to f**k off asking if this was a game for her making clear that he isn't going to forget this.

I don't know why this would be and outlier since Kratos initially was struggling to beat Thanatos and only when his anger reach its peak after Deimos's death he started overpower Thanatos.

Thanatos is stronger than Zeus by this same revision. Kratos is very clearly not at that level as of this point, let alone Deimos, and they do actually harm him in the fight prior to the Rage.

 

[Elizhaa]

OP look fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Random-Helper323]

This looks okay, based on the information.

I have misgivings about disregarding Kratos' and Deimos' victory over Thanatos, but I'll leave that alone because I can see the inconsistencies it risks making.

 

[Planck69]

This looks okay, based on the information.

I have misgivings about disregarding Kratos' and Deimos' victory over Thanatos, but I'll leave that alone because I can see the inconsistencies it risks making.

I don't like it either but that's where the dominoes fell with the new scaling.

 

[Hellbeast]

This looks okay, based on the information.

I have misgivings about disregarding Kratos' and Deimos' victory over Thanatos, but I'll leave that alone because I can see the inconsistencies it risks making.

I feel the simple fix is to simply treat not all the Primordials as equal

Like Thanatos has no scaling aside from fighting this Kratos and being feared by Olympus

 

[Planck69]

I feel the simple fix is to simply treat not all the Primordials as equal

Like Thanatos has no scaling aside from fighting this Kratos and being feared by Olympus

He fought in the war with the Primordials. That used to be deduced, but Sons of Sparta confirmed it outright, as I laid out above.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Could Thanatos have gotten weaker? Another option, could Kratos have unknowingly had a touch of the Power of Hope active since he was hoping to save his brother?

 

[Tanin_iver]

I don't like it either but that's where the dominoes fell with the new scaling.

Could Thanatos have gotten weaker? Another option, could Kratos have unknowingly had a touch of the Power of Hope active since he was hoping to save his brother?

Just curious but couldn't the Olympians be stronger than the Primordials by that point too? Just grown stronger?

 

[Da3ggman]

It kinda feels…wrong, to chalk up the entire plot and ending of a game as an outlier. Feels really weird imo

 

[Hellbeast]

He fought in the war with the Primordials. That used to be deduced, but Sons of Sparta confirmed it outright, as I laid out above.

And? Hermes fought in the wars with the Titans but this very same revision doesn’t scale him to them, we have no idea what Thanatos contributed to the war or who he even fought or how he did. Especially when Ouranos so thoroughly that other Primordials such as Gaia wouldn’t dare to usurp him openly unless she resorted to the Cronos thing for no reason.

It makes no sense to dismiss the plot of the games simply to maintain the narrative all Primordials are equal, especially when I’d argue Helios > Morpheus already goes against it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

It does kinda suck to have to dismiss the final boss fight and ending of a game as an outlier, but given we have direct statements of all the olympians (Which includes the likes of Zeus) being too scared to ever challenge Thanatos then it doesn't make much sense for someone weaker than Zeus at that point being able to beat him. Maybe the specific rage boost he got from Deimos death could work but I dunno if he was still weaker than Zeus at that moment even with that amp.

 

[KLOL506]

Could Thanatos have gotten weaker? Another option, could Kratos have unknowingly had a touch of the Power of Hope active since he was hoping to save his brother?

Unlikely for both counts. There is nothing in the verse that suggests that Gods grow weaker over time, if anything, Olympians are explicitly stated to grow stronger, even with Kratos it was just him holding back immensely on the power he already had, hell, logically speaking he should be weaker, not just as strong as his Endgame 3 self, because he no longer has the amps he got back in 3 like Hades' soul and such. Yet he just trains the rust off and he's back to that level.

As for Hope, there are zero statements or even implications that he went back to using the slivers of Hope.

 

[KLOL506]

It makes no sense to dismiss the plot of the games simply to maintain the narrative all Primordials are equal, especially when I’d argue Helios > Morpheus already goes against it.

To be fair Helios has the Chaos Flame, and the whole Hemera and Nyx thing is just tossed out as being a difference of intrinsic nature, with the Chaos flame being implied as such.

 

[KLOL506]

As for the overall argument of treating the Thanatos fight as an outlier, specifically for Kratos, I also respectfully disagree, even with the statement we have for Nyx being feared by Titans and Olympians alike and her being undefeated and unchallenged in her domain. The final boss fight against Thanatos is far, far too significant of an event in Kratos's life. Even without that Rage amp, Kratos was holding his own significantly better than Deimos and wasn't getting one-shot by his beatdowns. And this was without Infinite Rage, mind you, Kratos got his Bane from Thera, a Titan of not that much significant who logically speaking should be weaker than those 4 + Cronos that dispatched of Ouranos, and yet with her power Kratos is suddenly squaring up to Thanatos all by himself. Alas, I had these discussions with the boys so I am outvoted here and thus my opinion means nothing.

Another point of argument I want to make against the statements for Nyx applying beyond SoS is that there is a 35 year gap between the events of SoS and GoW1 and even longer for GoS, a lot could have happened in that timeframe, especially considering the whole "Gods get stronger over time" schtick and the whole Great Evils conundrum.

Coming to the whole Primordials > Zeus argument, even the arguments for Gaia are shaky despite the gap between Pos and Zeus no longer being insurmountable, the Brother Kings at the very least should be comparable to the Primordials if nothing else, as freakin' Hippocamps shred her, and as for the punch, Kratos whittled Poseidon's elemental armor down first, and even before Gaia could punch Pos out of his elemental form, she was still easily stopped by a bunch of Hippocamps. As for Zeus charging up his lightning bolt, I will just note it took out both Gaia and Kratos at once, and I doubt that's the only charged attack he has if his boss fight is anything to go by, but ultimately I feel that's irrelevant to the overall idea of Primordials being comparable to the Brother Kings as a whole.

I also find it kinda weird of having SoS mishmashing with current crop of games while knowing remakes are on the horizon which could further change up the scaling from what we have. But eh, I already discussed it with the boys and they seem to have differing opinions saying that they don't wanna wait that long to carry out the CRTs so I won't talk further on that account.

 

[KLOL506]

And? Hermes fought in the wars with the Titans but this very same revision doesn’t scale him to them,

Fodder Titans don't have any direct scaling to the 4 + Cronos that restrained Ouranos anymore.

I feel the simple fix is to simply treat not all the Primordials as equal

Like Thanatos has no scaling aside from fighting this Kratos and being feared by Olympus

we have no idea what Thanatos contributed to the war or who he even fought or how he did.

We are literally told melee raged in the void - AS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO ASCENSION. All of them were present when the war broke out - Gaia was literally the first child of Chaos at the scene. Primordials are 100% comparable to each other in all stats.

Hell, random Primordials like Ceto and Ourea both damage Ouranos and Chaos respectively. And they are not even close to being as significant as say, Nyx or Thanatos or even Gaia.

Especially when Ouranos so thoroughly that other Primordials such as Gaia wouldn’t dare to usurp him openly unless she resorted to the Cronos thing for no reason.

You can win a fight and not be overwhelmingly superior. Hell, Ascension is proof of that, all Primordials were able to grievously harm one another. Yet Ouranos came out on top.

Hell, for all we know Gaia was too distraught to fight from the whole ordeal.

 

[MaskedDragon908]

Masked was wondering when this would happen.
Thank you for putting this together.

In terms of Ascension, Masked is unsure what to do about it.
The feat could be attributed to Kratos' rage, but even that feels like a stop-gap measure.
It does seem like treating it as an outlier is a matter of contention.
Masked will remain neutral on the subject.

In terms of errors, Masked has only found a minor issue in Gaia's range section, where there is a space missing in-between the comma and "omnipresent".
This error is replicated in her Intelligence section, as it is copied over, although there is also an error with the reference there due to missing the "/".

 

[Stefano4444]

Athena was very clearly passing on his godhead to him at the Suicide Bluffs.

Where its implied or suggested in that scene that Athena was giving him the full strength of a god? Considering that he already killed Thanatos and Ares why he would need a further boost of power? Even if this was what she was doing, Kratos did interrupt her before she could finish, so how you can be sure he got any boost atr all?

Its also possible that Athena was actually removing his memories as mortal, as with the death of his brother and mother lost his remaining tires with his previous life, so that Kratos could move on with his life as god.

Only for Kratos to refuse, rightly piss off after the events of the game, especially when this clearly show that the gods could have removed his nightmares everytime they wanted and the only reason they didn't do it initially was just because they didn't want it, and Athena only did that because was going to become one of them, despite the fact that this was not what he wanted.

He showcases nothing that really implies godhood prior to that point.

The end of the first game make it pretty clear that he was he was been elevated as the status God of War right away, he wasn't just a candidate for the role. Especially when he already killed Ares showing his strength its already godlike, since nobody where aware of him having the Power of Hope.

Otherwise why would the other Olympians would have him took the role already if he was still the same mortal who got oneshotted by Ares with a random stone pillar. Would had been a pretty silly for some like him to replace and take the role of one of the most mighties gods in Olympus.

The official website itself confirms that he was still on his way to ascending to godhood as well.

What this statement was trully referring to Kratos's actual strength?

As the main plotline in that game was Kratos's struggle with his tires as a mortal with Deimos and his mother, making him unwilling to fulfill his role as a god.

Only for lose them giving no choice but to embrance the role as the God of War, as well its where he start trully become a monster arguability worse than Ares.

As of that point, he was a god in name but not in full.

It could had been the opposite, with Kratos not fully embrance the role due of his past, while still be already a true Olympian in terms of speed/power.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I agree with Klols logic.

 

[KLOL506]

That being said, Kratos scaling that high poses problems for the relative shit. Mainly Brother King territory.

Apollo wants to wage war on Poseidon, and yet Apollo is officially not even Top 4, on account of Artemis being fiercer and all (And being able to kill Ares and all), but even then that just proves even Ares could be relative.

Which poses problems for the current Drake scaling we got.

 

[KLOL506]

Where its implied or suggested in that scene that Athena was giving him the full strength of a god? Considering that he already killed Thanatos and Ares why he would need a further boost of power? Even if this was what she was doing, Kratos did interrupt her before she could finish, so how you can be sure he got any boost atr all?

Its also possible that Athena was actually removing his memories as mortal, as with the death of his brother and mother lost his remaining tires with his previous life, so that Kratos could move on with his life as god.

Only for Kratos to refuse, rightly piss off after the events of the game, especially when this clearly show that the gods could have removed his nightmares everytime they wanted and the only reason they didn't do it initially was just because they didn't want it, and Athena only did that because was going to become one of them, despite the fact that this was not what he wanted.

Some clarification here: The memory thing is just not true, when even Zeus outright stated that his nightmares can never be removed.

And both the official website and Athena state that he is not yet a God, but ultimately that is meaningless in the long run. He has the throne, and he can access the domain as he sees fit. And he fights Thanatos.

What this statement was trully referring to Kratos's actual strength?

Magic amplifies all aspects of one's being to equal amounts including strength down to the very soul. Godhood is tied to that. Even so, it's ultimately irrelevant when the significance of the fight matters more.

 

[Stefano4444]

Some clarification here: The memory thing is just not true, when even Zeus outright stated that his nightmares can never be removed.

Where and when was outright stated that neither Zeus or anyone in Olympus has the ability to alter/remove memories? I don't recall the games ever explicitly imply this to be the case and rather they just trick Kratos into believing that they promise him liberation from his nightmares, where instead they simply forgive his sins.

Beside i find hard to believe that the same setting where basic type of Magic already grant you limited Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation, and that Greek Gods in general are suppost have innate Mind Manipulation, Telepathy, and Dream Manipulation, are uncapable to just remove memories.

 

[KLOL506]

Where and when was outright stated that neither Zeus or anyone in Olympus has the ability to alter/remove memories? I don't recall the games ever explicitly imply this to be the case and rather they just trick Kratos into believing that they promise him liberation from his nightmares, where instead they simply forgive his sins.

Novel. Zeus straight up slams the door in Athena's face on that matter, saying his sins are far too grievous.

Beside i find hard to believe that the same setting where basic type of Magic already grant you limited Mind Manipulation and Memory Manipulation, and that Greek Gods in general are suppost have innate Mind Manipulation, Telepathy, and Dream Manipulation, are uncapable to just remove memories.

They can, but they won't in the case of Kratos because Zeus wouldn't allow it.

One should realize that the Great Evils are running amok at this point and could've influenced Zeus's decision to not liberate Kratos from his nightmares.

Anyway, this part is derailing, and has nothing to do with the actual scaling at hand.

 

[Planck69]

Course the thread pops off while I sleep. Anyways, KLOL explained most of what I was going to say to some of these arguments. That said;

And? Hermes fought in the wars with the Titans but this very same revision doesn’t scale him to them, we have no idea what Thanatos contributed to the war or who he even fought or how he did. Especially when Ouranos so thoroughly that other Primordials such as Gaia wouldn’t dare to usurp him openly unless she resorted to the Cronos thing for no reason.

The Primordial battle is described as a melee explicitly, in which they fought each other, which we see in the Ascension intro. There wasn't complex scheming and plotting, it was just physical brawling for an eternity till Ouranos won. The same war where Ceto slugs a universe out of Ouranos and Chaos loses a jaw to Ourea.

The Titans don't inherently scale to Tier 1 anymore, so Hermes fighting in the war tells us nothing. That part of the revision isn't "lol Hermes didn't fight", it's "Hermes fought against beings with unknown physicals".

It makes no sense to dismiss the plot of the games simply to maintain the narrative all Primordials are equal, especially when I’d argue Helios > Morpheus already goes against it.

Helios doesn't scale to Morpheus either cause Sons of Sparta establishes that the day repels Nyx via her intrinsic nature making her averse to light, and Morpheus more likely than not being the same situation. Which I also go over in the OP.

Speaking generally, I will not budge on Thanatos scaling to Primordials or Primordials being that strong, given that's literally the latest canon information we have. If the final battle can be resolved in a way that doesn't break scaling then I'm fine with it, I just found it being an outlier to be the only actual option.

 

[KLOL506]

Similarly, I too will not budge on my thoughts on the scaling regarding Thanatos and Primordials and intend to stick by what I have said.

I guess I can tag the staff again to take a look again.

 

[KLOL506]

@Random-Helper323 @KingTempest @Reiner04 @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa New arguments have come up since you last evaluated. Another re-evaluation would be more than appreciated.

 

[Hellbeast]

Fodder Titans don't have any direct scaling to the 4 + Cronos that restrained Ouranos anymore.

And Thanatos doesn’t have any direct statements or scaling to Ouranos your point?

We are literally told melee raged in the void - AS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO ASCENSION

Yes and we know the four who were relative to each other by that account and Thanatos is not among them.

. All of them were present when the war broke out - Gaia was literally the first child of Chaos at the scene. Primordials are 100% comparable to each other in all stats.
Except the plots of
Chains of Olympus
Ghost of Sparta
And God of War III

All illustrate counter proposals, that not all Primordial deities were on par in might. This is the case with latter pantheons too, why os this different per se?

Hell, random Primordials like Ceto and Ourea both damage Ouranos and Chaos respectively. And they are not even close to being as significant as say, Nyx or Thanatos or even Gaia.

Ceto and Ourea were shown as having a clear role in the creation of the setting, they’re not just randoms lmao.

You can win a fight and not be overwhelmingly superior. Hell, Ascension is proof of that, all Primordials were able to grievously harm one another. Yet Ouranos came out on top.

And that’s the main quartet shown as having a key role in the creation of the realm, what’s your poin? Four Primordials fighting on par isn’t somehow evidence every single one scales to the Victor.

By that logic everyone in the Great Wars would scale to Zeus and the Brother Kings regardless because that was a melee and completely negates the fact of their own scaling

Hell, for all we know Gaia was too distraught to fight from the whole ordeal.

So she was too distraught to fight Ouranos on behalf of her children but she’s fine to arrange his death/castration via literally giving the weapons to Cronos.

We see her directly fight in the Titanomachies, why is that her cutoff vs Ouranos? The simple fact Poseidon could contest her and Zeus could oneshot her illustrates that she, a Promordial would be below her husband.

Unless we are going to ignore what we’ve seen across multiple narratives in the games for this chain, I don’t see it working.

(I’m also at work, so I might be sporadic with responses)

 

[Hellbeast]

Course the thread pops off while I sleep. Anyways, KLOL explained most of what I was going to say to some of these arguments. That said;

The Primordial battle is described as a melee explicitly, in which they fought each other, which we see in the Ascension intro. There wasn't complex scheming and plotting, it was just physical brawling for an eternity till Ouranos won. The same war where Ceto slugs a universe out of Ouranos and Chaos loses a jaw to Ourea.

Once again, that’s four Primordials you’ve demonstrated hold relativity.

Do Poseidon and Hades wrestling Atoas prove all Olympians scale to him? No, the statements and showings elsewhere decide that

Which In this case, are not favourable

The Titans don't inherently scale to Tier 1 anymore, so Hermes fighting in the war tells us nothing. That part of the revision isn't "lol Hermes didn't fight", it's "Hermes fought against beings with unknown physicals".

It’s an example, we could also point out the Second Great War or the Great Wars seen elsewhere

My point is we’ve seen multiple inter specific conflicts between the Gods and each Pantheon has shown variance in its power across its members

Helios doesn't scale to Morpheus either cause Sons of Sparta establishes that the day repels Nyx via her intrinsic nature making her averse to light, and Morpheus more likely than not being the same situation. Which I also go over in the OP.

Headcanon, we never hear a statement he can’t and we’ve treated Helios and > Morpheus for years.

Speaking generally, I will not budge on Thanatos scaling to Primordials or Primordials being that strong, given that's literally the latest canon information we have. If the final battle can be resolved in a way that doesn't break scaling then I'm fine with it, I just found it being an outlier to be the only actual option.

And neither will I, I simply think taking some variance among the Primordials is the only way to reconcile both the scaling chain and also the narrative. I think Thanatos fighting Kratos and Deimos in the games and having a hand in the emotional core takes narrative precedent over arguing a point.

If we have to ignore massive moments in the narrative to maintain our positions, maybe those positions require re-evaluation

 

[Pepsimanslover]

Once again, that’s four Primordials you’ve demonstrated hold relativity.

Do Poseidon and Hades wrestling Atoas prove all Olympians scale to him? No, the statements and showings elsewhere decide that

Which In this case, are not favourable

The Primordial battle outright states each of the Primordials and their offspring (which in Nyx's case is Thanatos and Morpheus) participated in the war in melee for eternity. So yes, Thanatos fought and scales to the Primordials.

Headcanon, we never hear a statement he can’t and we’ve treated Helios and > Morpheus for years.

Random fire in a village can push Morpheus's fog away lmao. He's absolutely weak to fire. Let alone the Primordial fire.

 

[KLOL506]

And Thanatos doesn’t have any direct statements or scaling to Ouranos your point?

"Melee raged"

There you go.

Yes and we know the four who were relative to each other by that account and Thanatos is not among them.

That means they downscale massively. Unless they just bring back Cronos 1v1'ing Ouranous again in the remakes in which case this entire thread would be pointless but we're not there yet so

Chains of Olympus

Where exactly does it state in Chains that Morpheus is weaker?

Ghost of Sparta

Not sure why this one even matters

And God of War III

At best this one is just showing Primordials = Brother Kings

All illustrate counter proposals, that not all Primordial deities were on par in might.

They really don't.

This is the case with latter pantheons too, why os this different per se?

Latter pantheons don't exactly have weak Primordials per se.

Ceto and Ourea were shown as having a clear role in the creation of the setting, they’re not just randoms lmao.

Narratively speaking they are tho LMAO, Gaia has a stranglehold on the narrative of GoW (And she directly scales to the Brother Kings), Nyx's dimension is a major destination in Ascension plus the night stuff, Thanatos's realm is a place that is feared.

And that’s the main quartet shown as having a key role in the creation of the realm, what’s your poin? Four Primordials fighting on par isn’t somehow evidence every single one scales to the Victor.

The point is, that they are relative.

And it isn't just four. It's Chaos, Gaia, Nyx, Hemera and then their offspring, plus Chaos's other offspring Ouranos, Ceto, Ourea, and then when the whole gang was complete, an all-out war of melee brawls came to be. This really isn't up for debate.

By that logic everyone in the Great Wars would scale to Zeus and the Brother Kings regardless because that was a melee and completely negates the fact of their own scaling

About that. Did you read the part about Apollo?

So she was too distraught to fight Ouranos on behalf of her children but she’s fine to arrange his death/castration via literally giving the weapons to Cronos.

I think we tend to forget that Ouranos also sent most of the Titans and Giants into Tartarus and that she needed them free as well.

We see her directly fight in the Titanomachies, why is that her cutoff vs Ouranos? The simple fact Poseidon could contest her and Zeus could oneshot her illustrates that she, a Promordial would be below her husband.

Titanomachy Zeus was nowhere near the monster he is in GoW3, also back then he had the BoO that did the one-shotting.

Don't get me wrong, I already stated I don't agree with the GoS Thanatos fight being an outlier or the premise of Primordials > Zeus but some of this is just downright wrong.

 

[Planck69]

Once again, that’s four Primordials you’ve demonstrated hold relativity.

Yeah, and the rest fought these Primordials as well.

Do Poseidon and Hades wrestling Atoas prove all Olympians scale to him? No, the statements and showings elsewhere decide that

I feel like you fundamentally misunderstand this. If all Olympians then fought each other for eons, then yes, they would absolutely scale above Atlas. This wasn't some nebulous War with another force, it was all of them in a melee.

Which In this case, are not favourable

It’s an example, we could also point out the Second Great War or the Great Wars seen elsewhere

My point is we’ve seen multiple inter specific conflicts between the Gods and each Pantheon has shown variance in its power across its members

This is an intrapantheon battle, again. You can spin it as you want but "they fought in a melee" and the fight including the offspring of the first Primordials takes any wind out of arguments that Thanatos doesnt scale to the others.

Headcanon, we never hear a statement he can’t and we’ve treated Helios and > Morpheus for years.

You can repel his mists with a torch. Sons of Sparta just hard confirmed that Primordials can have instrinsic weaknesses.

Mind you this all ignores the actual direct statement than none of the Olympians dare challenge Thanatos, Morpheus and Eris.

 

[Alexander]

Has anyone thought that maybe Thanatos was just feared for pure hax since well...he is the god of death?and pretty much everyone can die?