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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

GeneralSol16 said:
Not really? OV made it clear that Kevin doesn't absorb all of Ben's available aliens when he absorbs the Omnitrix, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. 12 year old Kevin is less experienced with his powers, while 17 year old Kevin has no reason to absorb all of Benā€™s aliens as heā€™s only pretending to work for Servantis. Ultimate Kevin shows himself having the DNA of more than ten alien species directly on-screen* so we know ten isnā€™t his limit as a 17 year old.

Regardless, from a purely AP standpoint it doesnā€™t matter much how many aliens Ultimate Kevin has. He needs Way Big to no diff Aggregor, as with every alien other than Way Big heā€™d only be slightly stronger than Aggregor at best (if we limited ourselves to just on-screen powers, Ultimate Kevin wouldā€™ve had no chance against Aggregor). He also scales to Ultimate Humungousaur, so his post-Greg absorption power is at least 10x by default.

*At the top of my head, his appearance/powers show he has at least these aliens (not counting any abilities that could arguably come from outside the Ultimatrix):
  1. Rath (appearance)
  2. Humungousaur (appearance)
  3. Brainstorm (appearance)
  4. Diamondhead (appearance)
  5. Chromastone (appearance)
  6. Spidermonkey (appearance)
  7. Swampfire (appearance)
  8. Big Chill (appearance)
  9. Jetray (appearance)
  10. Lodestar (appearance)
  11. Ultimate Spidermonkey (mouth can unhinge and spit webs in the same way)
  12. Goop (powers only)
  13. Echo Echo (powers only)
 
7e1049ce71fa3ecaaa32270b49f8a8d3.gif
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: ā€œOK, so youā€™re saying the sword needs someone worthy.ā€ - Ascalon re-interpretation

How powerful is Ascalon? When wielded by Sir George in the past, he had a brutal battle against the Dagon that ended with him cutting out the creatureā€™s heart and sealing him away, as he was unable to properly kill him. According to Azmuth, Dagon underestimated George in their first fight, and...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Thereā€™s a statement from Dwayne McDuffie that says Kevin wouldā€™ve probably still been able to defeat Aggregor if he absorbed young Benā€™s Omnitrix instead, though it would be more difficult. Iā€™m pretty confident this statement is unusable after the WoG restrictions, but out of curiosity I wanted to see the implications this would have.

First off, this Ben would have to be post-Secret of the Omnitrix, as it would be basically impossible for Kevin to defeat Aggregor using young Benā€™s Omnitrix without Way Bigā€™s power. This means Kevin would have access to at best 18 aliens:
  1. Heatblast
  2. Four Arms
  3. Diamondhead
  4. Wildmutt
  5. Stinkfly
  6. Ripjaws
  7. Upgrade
  8. XLR8
  9. Cannonbolt
  10. Wildvine
  11. Blitzwolfer
  12. Snare-Oh
  13. Frankenstrike
  14. Upchuck
  15. Eye Guy
  16. Way Big
  17. Grey Matter
  18. Potentially Ditto
Grey Matter and Ditto are irrelevant since they donā€™t have the typical scaling, which leaves at best 15 aliens not counting Way Big.

Since OS characters are 1/10th later characters and Kevin only gets 1/10th of their power, that would mean absorbing those 15 aliens would only give Kevin a 1.15x power increase compared to his base form. Ultimate Aggregor is 6x base Kevin and this hypothetical Omnitrix absorption would be relative in strength, so we can calculate OS Way Bigā€™s strength based on that:
  • 6 - 1.15 = 4.85
  • 4.85 x 10 = 48.5
  • OS Way Bigā€™s strength: 48.5x base UAF/OV characters
Again, probably not useable, but neat.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Thereā€™s a statement from Dwayne McDuffie that says Kevin wouldā€™ve probably still been able to defeat Aggregor if he absorbed young Benā€™s Omnitrix instead, though it would be more difficult. Iā€™m pretty confident this statement is unusable after the WoG restrictions, but out of curiosity I wanted to see the implications this would have.

First off, this Ben would have to be post-Secret of the Omnitrix, as it would be basically impossible for Kevin to defeat Aggregor using young Benā€™s Omnitrix without Way Bigā€™s power. This means Kevin would have access to at best 18 aliens:
  1. Heatblast
  2. Four Arms
  3. Diamondhead
  4. Wildmutt
  5. Stinkfly
  6. Ripjaws
  7. Upgrade
  8. XLR8
  9. Cannonbolt
  10. Wildvine
  11. Blitzwolfer
  12. Snare-Oh
  13. Frankenstrike
  14. Upchuck
  15. Eye Guy
  16. Way Big
  17. Grey Matter
  18. Potentially Ditto
Grey Matter and Ditto are irrelevant since they donā€™t have the typical scaling, which leaves at best 15 aliens not counting Way Big.

Since OS characters are 1/10th later characters and Kevin only gets 1/10th of their power, that would mean absorbing those 15 aliens would only give Kevin a 1.15x power increase compared to his base form. Ultimate Aggregor is 6x base Kevin and this hypothetical Omnitrix absorption would be relative in strength, so we can calculate OS Way Bigā€™s strength based on that:
  • 6 - 1.15 = 4.85
  • 4.85 x 10 = 48.5
  • OS Way Bigā€™s strength: 48.5x base UAF/OV characters
Again, probably not useable, but neat.
Click to expand...
Bro is also saying Ben still wouldn't be able to defeat Aggregor if he gets a few Ben more like WHAT holy Greg glaze
 
Lort15 said:
Bro is using ult echo echo against Kevin but not Aggregor i dunno Ben 10K could defeat him he would know what happen kind of so he would use better aliens
Click to expand...
If the Bens come from any point in time, Iā€™m imagining them accidentally summoning a bunch of useless Bens. Toddler Ben, early teen Ben, baby Ben, 100 year old Ben, Ben 0.5 seconds before he got the Omnitrixā€¦
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
If the Bens come from any point in time, Iā€™m imagining them accidentally summoning a bunch of useless Bens. Toddler Ben, early teen Ben, baby Ben, 100 year old Ben, Ben 0.5 seconds before he got the Omnitrixā€¦
Click to expand...
Lmao valid but i'm assuming that they meant useful Bens like ben 10k or smth
 
Random question: how would everyone rank the 10 strongest villains?

My ranking:
  1. Dagon / Vilgax (Dagon absorbed)
  2. Maltruant
  3. Charmcaster (with Alpha Rune) / Addwaitya (with Alpha Rune)
  4. Eon (Prime)
  5. Kevin 11,000
  6. Malware (Fourth Form)
  7. Trombipulor (Peak)
  8. Way Bads
  9. That one Trash Monster Way Big fought, I guess???
  10. Darkstar (on-screen peak)
Notes:
  • I only considered the strongest form of each villain, so no Malgax or Charmcaster with Magical Totems or anything like that.
  • I ignored alternate Bens because I didnā€™t want them to take up most of this list.
  • I think the top 3 are interchangeable placement-wise, and itā€™s arguable whoā€™s stronger between Kevin 11K and Prime Eon.
  • Darkstar could be higher, but itā€™s unknown just how strong his peak is outside of ā€œvaguely stronger than Ultimate Humungousaurā€.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Random question: how would everyone rank the 10 strongest villains?

My ranking:
  1. Dagon / Vilgax (Dagon absorbed)
  2. Maltruant
  3. Charmcaster (with Alpha Rune) / Addwaitya (with Alpha Rune)
  4. Eon (Prime)
  5. Kevin 11,000
  6. Malware (Fourth Form)
  7. Trombipulor (Peak)
  8. Way Bads
  9. That one Trash Monster Way Big fought, I guess???
  10. Darkstar (on-screen peak)
Notes:
  • I only considered the strongest form of each villain, so no Malgax or Charmcaster with Magical Totems or anything like that.
  • I ignored alternate Bens because I didnā€™t want them to take up most of this list.
  • I think the top 3 are interchangeable placement-wise, and itā€™s arguable whoā€™s stronger between Kevin 11K and Prime Eon.
  • Darkstar could be higher, but itā€™s unknown just how strong his peak is outside of ā€œvaguely stronger than Ultimate Humungousaurā€.
Click to expand...
can Maltruant be higher? cuz the entire infinite timestream is under his control
šŸ¤”
 
Lort15 said:
can Maltruant be higher? cuz the entire infinite timestream is under his control
šŸ¤”
Click to expand...
Honestly you can scale him to that tier by just upscaling him from Prime Eon, which is why I have him so high.

Prime Eon >= Ultimate Ben Clockwork ā‰ˆ hypothetical OV Ben 10K Clockwork < Atomic-X < Maltruant

Before I treated Ultimate Ben as a self-contained thing with his own scaling, but Iā€™ve changed my mind on that. I feel like itā€™s silly for ā€œUltimate Benā€ to be the only one with multiversal scaling when itā€™s not stated that heā€™s more powerful than he would be otherwise, especially when thereā€™s no obvious reason for him to be that strong.

You can also argue Dagon is above both Prime Eon and the Alpha Rune which is why heā€™s number 1, though in both Dagon and Maltruantā€™s cases Iā€™m not 100% on it because I doubt they were intended to be multiverse busters. Narratively though they feel like theyā€™re meant to be above basically every other Ben 10 villain, so I guess thatā€™s what happens when you give a random villain a blatant multiversal statement lol. You could make it more consistent by lowballing Eonā€™s statement to just universal, but itā€™s obvious that by ā€œtimelineā€ he means every timeline since thatā€™s the only way he could get rid of every Ben.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Honestly you can scale him to that tier by just upscaling him from Prime Eon, which is why I have him so high.

Prime Eon >= Ultimate Ben Clockwork ā‰ˆ hypothetical OV Ben 10K Clockwork < Atomic-X < Maltruant

Before I treated Ultimate Ben as a self-contained thing with his own scaling, but Iā€™ve changed my mind on that. I feel like itā€™s silly for ā€œUltimate Benā€ to be the only one with multiversal scaling when itā€™s not stated that heā€™s more powerful than he would be otherwise, especially when thereā€™s no obvious reason for him to be that strong.

You can also argue Dagon is above both Prime Eon and the Alpha Rune which is why heā€™s number 1, though in both Dagon and Maltruantā€™s cases Iā€™m not 100% on it because I doubt they were intended to be multiverse busters. Narratively though they feel like theyā€™re meant to be above basically every other Ben 10 villain, so I guess thatā€™s what happens when you give a random villain a blatant multiversal statement lol. You could make it more consistent by lowballing Eonā€™s statement to just universal, but itā€™s obvious that by ā€œtimelineā€ he means every timeline since thatā€™s the only way he could get rid of every Ben.
Click to expand...
Even a single timeline in Ben 10 Is 2-A so
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Even a single timeline in Ben 10 Is 2-A so
Click to expand...
Forgot to clarify, by ā€œuniversalā€ and ā€œmultiversalā€ I meant in the context of Ben 10. Destroying a timeline in Ben 10 would be a 2-A feat based on how the cosmology is on the wiki, but in-universe itā€™s a ā€œuniversalā€ feat if that makes sense.

I default to ā€œuniversalā€ and ā€œmultiversalā€ as vague descriptors that can be used regardless of how big or small the structures are.
 
In Trouble Helix, Diamondhead punched Malware so hard he went flying through the Helix, shattering it. With the Helix later showing tanking the destruction of Galvan B.

Should this be considered for a future upgrade?
 
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