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Contravention| Hank (Madness combat) vs Titus Fulminus Destellus (Deepwoken) | [3-0-0]

Delusionaltx2

He/Him
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Yeah hank really just has skill and the fact he has GUNS going for him.

Sleight of Hand isn't really useful here, because theres two outcomes with Titus trying this;

1, Titus tries to feint hank and Hank shoots him in the head with a gun for trying that. (Not good for him)

2, Titus tries to feint Hank out, Hank dodges, but dodges way too far away for him to get anything meaningfully done with feinting hank.

I'd also like to note that Hank has better range than Titus in melee ranges due to having a sword, or an axe, or whatever his optional equipment he's really gonna wanna use in the moment, or has better range with his guns against Titus' abilities.

HOWEVER. Titus is just absurdly stronger than Hank, and it will be a battle of dwindling Titus down slowly before Hank can kill him.

Edit: This is Mag Hank, didn't realize that.
 
Ironically, I think Hank would do better in his previous key. If Hank tries to go too close in this key, he will not only be surprised to be outmatched in AP, but Titus also seems to know how to use his LS according to the martial arts description in his profile.

If Hank were less bulky and more acrobatic, that wouldn't be a bad thing, especially since I doubt his first move was to launch himself at someone taller than him.
 
Ironically, I think Hank would do better in his previous key. If Hank tries to go too close in this key, he will not only be surprised to be outmatched in AP, but Titus also seems to know how to use his LS according to the martial arts description in his profile.
He'd do absurdly better in his previous key. Mag-Hank isn't exactly the dodging type. He relies crazy on his strength due to losing most if not all his mobility, so in this case he's just gonna try to face tank moves 5x stronger than him, and unfortunately die.

Now, if that key was up to date he'd have his electricity rated as Low 1-C, but that'd make it a stomp in the opposite direction.
 
Yeah hank really just has skill and the fact he has GUNS going for him.

Sleight of Hand isn't really useful here, because theres two outcomes with Titus trying this;

1, Titus tries to feint hank and Hank shoots him in the head with a gun for trying that. (Not good for him)
Since he can't properly decipher feints he's get hit if he tries doing that at close range

Plus titius can easily tank piercing and has Type 2 immo
2, Titus tries to feint Hank out, Hank dodges, but dodges way too far away for him to get anything meaningfully done with feinting hank.
Idk about that one, For Hank to dodge he has to know what he's dodging here and if he dodges the attack like he would a punch only for it to be a kick instead it obviously wouldn't go well

Ofc if he's using a gun or something then yeah that's probably fair game since at that point it's just a matter of getting in and out of his attack range (something titus can't really feint)
I'd also like to note that Hank has better range than Titus in melee ranges due to having a sword, or an axe, or whatever his optional equipment he's really gonna wanna use in the moment, or has better range with his guns against Titus' abilities.
This is true although with teleportation via warp kick I feel Titus can close the distance against hanks guns at least

Not like he's actually hitting hank with warp kick cause well Y'know...
HOWEVER. Titus is just absurdly stronger than Hank, and it will be a battle of dwindling Titus down slowly before Hank can kill him.
His win condition yes (surprisingly do-able with revives)
 
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Oh yeah, the main reason why I picked mag Hank at first was because he has his immo negation but without that he can really kill titus unless I make em fight in the depths...

Tragic

Edit: I just remembered Hank actually resists madness type 3 thanks to tanking dissonant reality

Nvm match can still happen the same way
 
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Since he can't properly decipher feints he's get hit if he tries doing that at close range
Let me reword this for you;

If he feints, there isn't anything he can do with it because he's not fighting someone who fights primarily melee. Feinting becomes useless when Hank is out of arms reach shooting bullets at Titus.
Idk about that one, For Hank to dodge he has to know what he's dodging here
No he doesn't. He doesn't know what he's about to dodge here and does it anyways. That's the fun part of Hank's instinctive action. He'll get warned, dodge, and unfortunately probably shoot titus again.
This is true although with teleportation via warp kick I feel Titus can close the distance against hanks guns at least

Not like he's actually hitting hank with warp kick cause well Y'know...
Yeah he's already dealt with teleportation before.
Oh yeah, the main reason why I picked mag Hank at first was because he has his immo negation but without that he can really kill titus unless I make em fight in the depths...

Tragic
He only has to theoretically kill Titus twice. If Titus goes out of his way to remove the stained effect on his heath, he'd be self-BFRing since it'd probably take too much time to do that then get back to where they're fighting before it'd count for a win in Hank's favor, taking into account actually going through the depths, then removing it, then traveling all the way back to the battleground.
 
Let me reword this for you;

If he feints, there isn't anything he can do with it because he's not fighting someone who fights primarily melee. Feinting becomes useless when Hank is out of arms reach shooting bullets at Titus.
So he's ducking in and out of range

In that case that's fair
No he doesn't. He doesn't know what he's about to dodge here and does it anyways. That's the fun part of Hank's instinctive action. He'll get warned, dodge, and unfortunately probably shoot titus again.
Fair fair
Yeah he's already dealt with teleportation before.
He has yes but he can't prevent them from closing distance (meaning he can still get close to him)

He CAN dodge attacks
He only has to theoretically kill Titus twice. If Titus goes out of his way to remove the stained effect on his heath, he'd be self-BFRing since it'd probably take too much time to do that then get back to where they're fighting before it'd count for a win in Hank's favor, taking into account actually going through the depths, then removing it, then traveling all the way back to the battleground.
Actually since titus scales to PF it wouldn't really take that long for him to come back since there's like multiple videos of PF escaping the depths in minutes

For context, the enemy needs to be removed from the battle field for about a week for BFR to be a wincon, so yeah, titus is easily coming back unless we stick the battle there
 
He has yes but he can't prevent them from closing distance (meaning he can still get close to him)

He CAN dodge attacks
Which can be even more detrimental to him, since his bullets are far faster than both of them here so being this close means he has little to no time to react to a bullet hitting him.
Actually since titus scales to PF it wouldn't really take that long for him to come back since there's like multiple videos of PF escaping the depths in minutes

For context, the enemy needs to be removed from the battle field for about a week for BFR to be a wincon, so yeah titus is easily coming back unless we stick the battle there
"Removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting them in a state in which they can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions. Death of the opponent also qualifies as an immediate victory, as long as the resulting state of the opponent would, if the fight went on, eventually qualify for at least one of the three priorly listed conditions. The fighter which reaches a victory condition first wins the match."

Pretty sure it'd fall under the one day part, not the one week as Hank isn't BFRing Titus. The Depths is a weakness of Titus' own resurrection and would be incapacitation, not BFR.

Players escaping the depths in minutes doesn't mean Titus can, since a player has the background knowledge of already being there before dozens of times. Titus is not a real player, and should not have that type of prior knowledge a player would, even if they're combat-wise comparable to their skills.
 
Which can be even more detrimental to him, since his bullets are far faster than both of them here so being this close means he has little to no time to react to a bullet hitting him.
Hmm yeah that's fair
Pretty sure it'd fall under the one day part, not the one week as Hank isn't BFRing Titus.
He's indirectly doing that by killing him
The Depths is a weakness of Titus' own resurrection and would be incapacitation, not BFR.
No, BFR by the wiki's definition is forcefully removing the opponent from the battlefield in such a way the battle field can't be continued (for about a week)

Hank is forcing him to go there by killing him thus BFR

He isn't really incapacitating him here as titus can still move and use abilities, the only difference is that he isn't there anymore
Players escaping the depths in minutes doesn't mean Titus can, since a player has the background knowledge of already being there before dozens of times. Titus is not a real player, and should not have that type of prior knowledge a player would, even if they're combat-wise comparable to their skills.
Regrettablly I'm not knowledgable enough on deep lore to actually comment on if Titus has the same knowledge they do

@AthelChan ur probably gonna have to comment on that
 
He's indirectly doing that by killing him
Which is an unfortunate weakness of Titus. That's not Hank BFRing him, the rules SPECIFY the opponent removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week. Hank isn't removing him, He's killing him and Titus is self-BFRing himself to The Depths are a consequence of dying. Hank has no hand in doing that.
No, BFR by the wiki's definition is forcefully removing the opponent from the battlefield in such a way the battle field can't be continued (for about a week)

Hank is forcing him to go there by killing him thus BFR

He isn't really incapacitating him here as titus can still move and use abilities, the only difference is that he isn't there anymore
Hank isn't forcefully removing Titus. Titus is forcefully removing himself. It doesn't apply to this. Other matches have used the one day for resurrection like this.
Regrettablly I'm not knowledgable enough on deep lore to actually comment on if Titus has the same knowledge they do

@AthelChan ur probably gonna have to comment on that
Unless Titus has statements of knowing The Depths well enough emulate a feat similar to a player like that, (or has statements/feats of being there before in the first place) it should be assumed he's never seen it before and would require time to escape it.
 
Which is an unfortunate weakness of Titus. That's not Hank BFRing him, the rules SPECIFY the opponent removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week. Hank isn't removing him, He's killing him and Titus is self-BFRing himself to The Depths are a consequence of dying. Hank has no hand in doing that.
That doesn't really change the fact it's still BFR not incap

Titius is still being forced to go there against his will but is still in fighting condition
Hank isn't forcefully removing Titus. Titus is forcefully removing himself. It doesn't apply to this. Other matches have used the one day for resurrection like this.
Can you send links to the matches?
 
That doesn't really change the fact it's still BFR not incap

Titius is still being forced to go there against his will but is still in fighting condition
You're missing the point that it requires THE OPPONENT DO IT. The rules specify the fighter who reaches the win condition first wins. Hank isn't forcefully removing the opponent, so why would you apply the rule that explicitly requires him to be doing something he isn't doing in the first place for it to apply?

That's why the second half of the incapacitation sentence says "knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting them in a state in which they can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions."

It doesn't require Titus to be completely incapable of fighting, just incapable of attacking Hank specifically for a day, which The Depths would put Titus in that state if he isn't fast enough to leave and immediately go to Hank, which leaves him vulnerable to permanent death. This isn't even taking into consideration Titus likely doesn't know the way back to Hank if he does die, so even if he does escape he likely can't make his way back.
Can you send links to the matches?
I'll have to look for them, they're from a few years ago. Might take me a bit, but give me the time and i can grab em. I know vaguely what verses it was related to.
 
You're missing the point that it requires THE OPPONENT DO IT. The rules specify the fighter who reaches the win condition first wins. Hank isn't forcefully removing the opponent, so why would you apply the rule that explicitly requires him to be doing something he isn't doing in the first place for it to apply?

That's why the second half of the incapacitation sentence says "knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting them in a state in which they can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions."

It doesn't require Titus to be completely incapable of fighting, just incapable of attacking Hank specifically for a day, which The Depths would put Titus in that state if he isn't fast enough to leave and immediately go to Hank, which leaves him vulnerable to permanent death. This isn't even taking into consideration Titus likely doesn't know the way back to Hank if he does die, so even if he does escape he likely can't make his way back.

I'll have to look for them, they're from a few years ago. Might take me a bit, but give me the time and i can grab em. I know vaguely what verses it was related to.
Yeah to prevent longer debate we gonna either need the deep supporters to show up or the match links ig
 
Players escaping the depths in minutes doesn't mean Titus can, since a player has the background knowledge of already being there before dozens of times. Titus is not a real player, and should not have that type of prior knowledge a player would, even if they're combat-wise comparable to their skills.
Dying is pretty normal to Deepwoken, someone like Duke has escaped the place Multiple times during your re-encounter. Besides The Depths itself is already mapped out in-verse so anyone could get a map in their own hands and just traverse the place easily, considering Titus himself can just easily traverse this if he wanted to.
 
Dying is pretty normal to Deepwoken, someone like Duke has escaped the place Multiple times during your re-encounter. Besides The Depths itself is already mapped out in-verse so anyone could get a map in their own hands and just traverse the place easily, considering Titus himself can just easily traverse this if he wanted to.
Okay so Duke has, but we aren't dealing with Duke here. Has TITUS himself escaped it before? Do we know if he's ever been there?

I'm looking at an outside perspective, but if someone is boasting about how they've "vanquishing innumerable foes" and sees his strength and power to be so highly that the only reason people defeat him is through LUCK then there's clearly a fine assumption to say he's not been to The Depths very much if at all. Clearly he hasn't been killed all that often to get familiar with The Depths. (Unless ofc there's something saying otherwise)

Even if there are maps of it, he doesn't have it actively on him so what good does it do?
 
Has TITUS himself escaped it before?
I'm gonna be honest to you, this guy never died b4 in his life so I'd assume he hasn't been on the Depths.
I'm looking at an outside perspective, but if someone is boasting about how they've "vanquishing innumerable foes" and sees his strength and power to be so highly that the only reason people defeat him is through LUCK then there's clearly a fine assumption to say he's not been to The Depths very much if at all. Clearly he hasn't been killed all that often to get familiar with The Depths.
Fair point. So how does this match go now that we ruled this out? Do just hank skill diffs my guy and dies eventually?
 
I'm gonna be honest to you, this guy never died b4 in his life so I'd assume he hasn't been on the Depths.
I kinda figured a guy like himself probably hasn't tasted death like the rest of the characters in that game.
Fair point. So how does this match go now that we ruled this out? Do just hank skill diffs my guy and dies eventually?
No, i think in that case he can probably escape it and get back to hank, but due to not knowing anything about the depths he probably can only escape and get to hank without removing the previous status effect which marks him for perma death due to the time limit on SBA.

IF i'm reading the wiki right, that means Titus has two revives to kill hank, but hank has his own revives he can come back from. So i think it's just a slow battle of the two killing each other over and over until Titus eventually runs out of resurrections and permanently dies. I'm giving it to Hank Mid-High Diff just based off Titus' resurrections and notable AP/Dura advantage, but lacks the range to keep up with Hank's firearms without being hurt in the process.
 
Well shoot, since thats settled guess i'll count votes then

I'm giving it to Hank Mid-High Diff just based off Titus' resurrections and notable AP/Dura advantage, but lacks the range to keep up with Hank's firearms without being hurt in the process.
Counted
 
He actually did, Titus wields a resonance which is an ability that you can only get by almost dying in the Depths with enough experience
So we have an implication that he's been there before at the very least once but he almost died?
 
Doesnt Titus stat gap hard
Hank downscales from 637 tons, and Titus upscales 3.4 Kilotons, that's more than a 5.4x gap and that is a huge gap might I add
 
Doesnt Titus stat gap hard
Hank downscales from 637 tons, and Titus upscales 3.4 Kilotons, that's more than a 5.4x gap and that is a huge gap might I add
Yes, but his range with guns and piercing damage, added with the fact Titus really can’t get close without getting hurt himself kinda makes it a slow burn, but manageable wincon.
 
Most deepwoken characters ain't good at dealing against anyone who outranges them. Especially since hank can dodge insanely fast which titus has never seen before. I think it's fair game for hank here, if you want a better matchup, i'd say you should swap out titus for someone who can parry attacks so he doesn't just get range diffed.
 
Most deepwoken characters ain't good at dealing against anyone who outranges them. Especially since hank can dodge insanely fast which titus has never seen before. I think it's fair game for hank here, if you want a better matchup, i'd say you should swap out titus for someone who can parry attacks so he doesn't just get range diffed.
At that point either the deepwoken character just stomps or nothing changes

PF has way too much of an arsenal on top of healing and amps (hank is never killing them)

Duke has auto tracking (which is just an insta GG with the AP advantage)

all the monsters get outranged

Not only that but I also wanted to give titus an actual matchup
 
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