Tier 9 Humanoid Tournament Round 1 Match 3: Father Grigori vs Hank J. Wimbleton

[Friedoil11]

Tier 9 Humanoid Tournament​

Father Grigori vs Hank J. Wimbleton​

The rule:​

1. The battle takes place in Level 0 Backrooms.
2. Both participants will know that if they break a wall they will be both teleported to Level 483 and to Level 27 if they break the floor.
3. Speed is equalized.
4. Both have 1 minute and a half of prep time.
5. Anything higher than 9-A is restricted.
6. After the minute and a half of prep time, both participants will spawn in random spots and will know the opponent's starting positions.
7. Hank is in his First Key.

Father Grigori:
Hank J. Wimbleton:
Inconclusive (coin flip):

 

[Comiphorous]

Father Grigori, you are so ******.

 

[Friedoil11]

Yeah, Hank gets every point here. He has more stamina, more abilities and is exactly x3,2701574044330228075811114680373 times stronger. Even if we take away Hank's weapons, the only advantage Gregori would have is range.

 

[Friedoil11]

Since this is a stomp (unless somebody brings up something else), Hank will go on.

 

[ARandomDude127]

Father Grigori, you are so ******.

I’m so ******* scared.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Surely you could have come up with a better matchup for these guys. Maybe if it was in Ravenholm then Father Grigori might stand a chance...? Iirc he can nail Fast Zombies in the head from hundreds of meters away and his guns are a one shot above his durability. But, with these rules, this is a stomp

 

[Friedoil11]

Surely you could have come up with a better matchup for these guys. Maybe if it was in Ravenholm then Father Grigori might stand a chance...? Iirc he can nail Fast Zombies in the head from hundreds of meters away and his guns are a one shot above his durability. But, with these rules, this is a stomp

Well, tell me which character would he stand a chance up against.

But, how does making the battle set in Ravenholm make Grigori more probable to win?

 

[Randomuser3412]

Well, tell me which character would he stand a chance up against.

Even like... Todd Fang or Alice, even if he would still lose those fights

But, how does making the battle set in Ravenholm make Grigori more probable to win?

He can make better use of his range advantage and already has traps set up there

 

[Friedoil11]

Even like... Todd Fang or Alice, even if he would still lose those fights

For Alice maybe, but Todd literally stomped someone stronger than him and that can fly. Have you read this match? The only change I see is that instead of the flight advantage he has the range advantage.

 

[Friedoil11]

He can make better use of his range advantage and already has traps set up there

Well, that's fair. But I won't change the arena.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Todd literally stomped someone stronger than him and that can fly. Have you read this match?

Yeah, this is a still a stomp. Father Grigori is barely any better than the people Hank kills dozens of every day

 

[Friedoil11]

Yeah, this is a still a stomp. Father Grigori is barely any better than the people Hank kills dozens of every day

Yeah, that applies for Alice too. Other than having equal range somehow, if we picked he 9-A version, she would be 4 megajoules stronger, so this means she destroys Gregori. Even if we picked her 9-B, she would still skill-stomp gregori.

 

[Comiphorous]

Surely you could have come up with a better matchup for these guys. Maybe if it was in Ravenholm then Father Grigori might stand a chance...? Iirc he can nail Fast Zombies in the head from hundreds of meters away and his guns are a one shot above his durability. But, with these rules, this is a stomp

Hank can deflect bullets. Grigori’s gun is useless in this scenario unless he fires it literally face first into him, and even then has the stamina he could keep fighting after being shot.

 

[Friedoil11]

Bump.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Hank can deflect bullets. Grigori’s gun is useless in this scenario unless he fires it literally face first into him, and even then has the stamina he could keep fighting after being shot.

Father Grigori's weapons now blitz Hank with speed equal. Perhaps this match could be added afterall

 

[ARandomDude127]

Father Grigori's weapons now blitz Hank with speed equal. Perhaps this match could be added afterall

Was gonna say Tac Bar but this is Pre-Apotheosis

He may have a chance after all…

 

[Comiphorous]

Father Grigori's weapons now blitz Hank with speed equal. Perhaps this match could be added afterall

Actually no, if Grigori wins by speed he wouldn’t have without speed equalized it can’t be added.

I actually still think Hank wins, he’s a far better shot and can aim dodge said shots if needed.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Actually no, if Grigori wins by speed he wouldn’t have without speed equalized it can’t be added.

mmm Annabelle is marginally faster than Hank's speed without speed equalized and it's kind of Father Grigori's whole thing to blitz zombies with speed faster than him with his rifle

I actually still think Hank wins, he’s a far better shot and can aim dodge said shots if needed.

Father Grigori can consistently hit head shots on fast zombies tens of meters away while they're climbing and jumping around. He also consistently hits head shots while multiple fast zombies are in his face and he's on fire... I don't know about that

 

[Comiphorous]

mmm Annabelle is marginally faster than Hank's speed without speed equalized and it's kind of Father Grigori's whole thing to blitz zombies with speed faster than him with his rifle

Yeah but it wouldn't blitz. that's the key part you're missing. if speed wasn't equalized Hank would blitz him to all hell without him being able to fight back, in speed equalized it's almost the reverse, so it wouldn't be able to be added.

And even then, Speed equalized rules state;
"Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one in this manner, even though they are now running slower."

So Hank could still pull off abilities such as his bullet deflection even if he's technically too slow to do it anymore, making Grigori's one single slim potential completely null.

Father Grigori can consistently hit head shots on fast zombies tens of meters away while they're climbing and jumping around. He also consistently hits head shots while multiple fast zombies are in his face and he's on fire... I don't know about that

And hank could deflect the shot even if they were in point blank range, and would rip Grigori's fking head off. I'm not about hear the glue huffing theory that Grigori is a better shot than Hank J. Wimbleton lmfao, that's absurd considering what he pulls in an average episode.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Yeah but it wouldn't blitz. that's the key part you're missing. if speed wasn't equalized Hank would blitz him to all hell without him being able to fight back, in speed equalized it's almost the reverse, so it wouldn't be able to be added.

I guess

And hank could deflect the shot even if they were in point blank range, and would rip Grigori's fking head off. I'm not about hear the glue huffing theory that Grigori is a better shot than Hank J. Wimbleton lmfao, that's absurd considering what he pulls in an average episode.

None of that is about aim though...?

 

[Randomuser3412]

And even then, Speed equalized rules state;
"Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one in this manner, even though they are now running slower."

So Hank could still pull off abilities such as his bullet deflection even if he's technically too slow to do it anymore, making Grigori's one single slim potential completely null.

I think you're missing the point of that here. Hank could reflect a bullet if it hit his sword or if the bullet was the same speed as him, sure. But Hank isn't going to magically instantly block a bullet dozens of times faster than him because of this.
It's like arguing Hank could block an FTL bullet just because he "has Attack Reflection."

 

[Comiphorous]

I think you're missing the point of that here. Hank could reflect a bullet if it hit his sword or if the bullet was the same speed as him, sure. But Hank isn't going to magically instantly block a bullet dozens of times faster than him because of this.
It's like arguing Hank could block an FTL bullet just because he "has Attack Reflection."

He still has abilities that require speed and normally would let him deflect bullets at Grigori's firing speed, thus can in this situation even if technically he's too slow for that under speed equalized.

Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one in this manner, even though they are now running slower.

Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained.

It's in the rules, you got a problem with it don't take it up with me.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Does grigori have FTL bullets? No? Than that's a horrible comparison. He still has abilities that require speed and normally would let him deflect bullets at Grigori's firing speed, thus can in this situation even if technically he's too slow for that under speed equalized.





It's in the rules, you got a problem with it don't take it up with me.

Attack Reflection isn't an ability based on speed. It's based on him being able to reflect attacks. He could reflect a much slower attack because his speed is lower than it is usually, but he couldn't reflect ones that he could before.
TLDR: Attack Reflection is used in conjunction with speed, and not directly because of speed

 

[Randomuser3412]

Big problem here is that Hank shouldn't even have Attack Reflection lol

 

[Comiphorous]

Attack Reflection isn't an ability based on speed. It's based on him being able to reflect attacks. He could reflect a much slower attack because his speed is lower than it is usually, but he couldn't reflect ones that he could before.
TLDR: Attack Reflection is used in conjunction with speed, and not directly because of speed

It is based on speed because the only reason he's supersonic is BECAUSE of that attack reflection feat. If he gets speed equalized to a lower speed then he technically can't pull off the feat i just linked, hence the attack reflect is on the table.

Big problem here is that Hank shouldn't even have Attack Reflection lol

It still means he can reflect the bullets, due to the second half of the speed equalized rule.

Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one in this manner, even though they are now running slower.

Characters are still capable of their full potential at a lower speeds even if they're technical incapable at their new speed. even if you removed it from the profile he could still do it. No matter how you twist the rule Hank can still reflect the bullet and retaliate without Grigori being able to fight back.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Characters are still capable of their full potential at a lower speeds even if they're technical incapable at their new speed. even if you removed it from the profile he could still do it. No matter how you twist the rule Hank can still reflect the bullet and retaliate without Grigori being able to fight back.

That says abilities and uses an ability as an example. Hank deflecting bullets is a technique that's based on the durability of the sword and Hank's speed. As it stands, he could maybe do it with Attack Reflection on his profile (it is listed as "minor," so probably not still).
This match can't happen because of the speed equal rules and Annabelle blitzing Hank because of them anyway. I'll probably get Attack Reflection removed from Hank's profile soon to clear stuff like this up.

 

[Comiphorous]

That says abilities and uses an ability as an example. Hank deflecting bullets is a technique that's based on the durability of the sword and Hank's speed. As it stands, he could maybe do it with Attack Reflection on his profile (it is listed as "minor," so probably not still).

As it stands he 100% could because the rules literally specify feats they usually can do can still be achieved even if they technically can't anymore. (fun fact, running on water is not an ability on the wiki, and is just superhuman physical characteristics) I'm not sure why this argument is going on as long as it has when the site rules are in my favor. Take it up with staff if you don't like it, but i'm right and won't change unless you go and change the rule yourself.

Until then, hank just deflects a bullet Grigori shoots at him and tears Grigori a new one.

 

[Randomuser3412]

As it stands he 100% could because the rules literally specify feats they usually can do can still be achieved even if they technically can't anymore. (fun fact, running on water is not an ability on the wiki, and is just superhuman physical characteristics) I'm not sure why this argument is going on as long as it has when the site rules are in my favor. Take it up with staff if you don't like it, but i'm right.

Your interpretation of the rules is wrong. I don't like your condescending tone.

 

[Comiphorous]

Your interpretation of the rules is wrong. I don't like your condescending tone.

The rules clearly state abilities that characters achieve through speed are retained under speed equalized, then gives an example of an ability that isn't a page on the wiki. It is literally this exact scenario.

 

[Randomuser3412]

then gives an example of an ability that isn't a page on the wiki

Are you sure? Anyway, this can be closed as it's a mismatch. I'll go see what pages have Attack Reflection when they shouldn't and make a CRT about it

 

[Comiphorous]

Are you sure?

Read the text just a line up...

This can be accomplished via sheer speed.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Read right above that...

Yeah. It's an ability that can be accomplished via sheer speed. Attack Reflection, in Hank's case here, isn't.

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah. It's an ability that can be accomplished via sheer speed. Attack Reflection, in Hank's case here, isn't.

I already linked the calc where he does accomplish that by being fast, so you're factually incorrect by all accounts.

This is mindless back and fourth, so unless someone has anything noteworthy to be added, i'm done here.

 

[Randomuser3412]

I already linked the calc where he does accomplish that by being fast, so you're factually incorrect by all accounts.

It was a jab at the fact he shouldn't have the ability at all

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Father Grigori's weapons now blitz Hank with speed equal. Perhaps this match could be added afterall

"Speed equalized means that characters whose whole thing is reacting to guns after they've been fired can no longer react to guns after they've been fired" is a new one. Maybe fun in a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" kind of way but this is something for the Q&A board if -- if! -- worth taking seriously.

Moreover, let's remember that Father Grigori's only real wincons are Explosion Manipulation & Summoning. Otherwise stomp in Hank's favor, speed equalized or no.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Speed equalized means that characters whose whole thing is reacting to guns after they've been fired can no longer react to guns after they've been fired

It does -- but it also means the match can't be added because of that fact (and, some other, more obvious reasons)

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

It does -- but it also means the match can't be added because of that fact (and, some other, more obvious reasons)

Where does it say in da rulez that speed equal = bullet-dodgers can't dodge bullets anymore? Link it for me.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Where does it say in da rulez that speed equal = bullet-dodgers can't dodge bullets anymore? Link it for me.

It's moreso that it doesn't say the slower character's attack speed is reduced. And since Father Grigori can't dodge his own bullets, Hank wouldn't be able to either. ANYWAY, this match is a stomp (Hank still wins lol) and a mismatch and can't be added or debated at all. This thread honestly needs to get closed. This is pretty pointless