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JJK Speed Revisions (AKA Projection Sorcery 2: Electric Boogaloo)

We aren't doing this again
tf you mean "we aren't doing this again"? She was literally cut open a few minutes before she did this feat and had just fought off 4 other Grade 1/Semi Grade 1 sorcerers right before fighting Naoya, she WAS heavily injured, you can't ignore that
 
Personally I think it was a weird writing choice but I'm not going to waste people's time with a tangent on this small nitpick.

I'll go gather some scans but I'll be busy so it'll take a while. Maybe I'll have someone post them for me.
no rush and that's fine
Except she only turned around and socked him in the face when he was right behind her. She made movements relative to him. That's why she has that subsonic+ calc Sun just showed here (Tho someone I know thinks the calc is wrong, so I'll wonder if that'll get brought up eventually).
she made movements slower than him that could be measured in the same ballpark
Her being able to easy move at Subsonic+ speed and react to Supersonic attacks at close range makes being shocked and easily evaded by someone vaguely subsonic at literal point blank inconsistent
or maybe her feat is inconsistent? with the clear progression of speed i see no reason to find his speed inconsistent
 
tf you mean "we aren't doing this again"? She was literally cut open a few minutes before she did this feat and had just fought off 4 other Grade 1/Semi Grade 1 sorcerers right before fighting Naoya, she WAS heavily injured, you can't ignore that
we made a whole staff thread about this and you choose to come into a thread and your new reason for why it's not valid is "she's tired".

So we aren't doing this again
 
she made movements slower than him that could be measured in the same ballpark
Well assuming the calculation is even correct (I'll see if the person is willing to share their contention with the calculation once he's online), yes, she's a bit slower but in the same ballpark. Which is important for the next part.
or maybe her feat is inconsistent? with the clear progression of speed i see no reason to find his speed inconsistent
If her feat is inconsistent, it is our job to remedy it so as to make it consistent. Not go "oh let's not address this at all because her speed is inconsistent". You have to ask what would make her feat consistent in this case. If she can easily react to beyond Subsonic speed, and even reacted to Cursed Womb Naoya's Supersonic speed, why was she shocked by his speed and miss an attack from point blank against him? One solution is that Naoya was moving faster than he had before. That fixes the inconsistency. This isn't the ONLY solution, but I'm only demonstrating here. If we can address and find a solution to this, I'd be satisfied. But ignoring it isn't conducive to anything productive.
 
Well assuming the calculation is even correct (I'll see if the person is willing to share their contention with the calculation once he's online), yes, she's a bit slower but in the same ballpark. Which is important for the next part.
It can also be entirely possible that Maki “intercepting” Naoya was never meant to be a speed feat but wtver
If her feat is inconsistent, it is our job to remedy it so as to make it consistent. Not go "oh let's not address this at all because her speed is inconsistent". You have to ask what would make her feat consistent in this case. If she can easily react to beyond Subsonic speed, and even reacted to Cursed Womb Naoya's Supersonic speed, why was she shocked by his speed and miss an attack from point blank against him? One solution is that Naoya was moving faster than he had before. That fixes the inconsistency. This isn't the ONLY solution, but I'm only demonstrating here. If we can address and find a solution to this, I'd be satisfied. But ignoring it isn't conducive to anything productive.
The inconsistency only exists because you’re content on scaling Maki to something she probably shouldn’t scale to.
Maki never easily reacted to SoS attacks.
When womb Naoya charged at Maki, she was prepared for the attack and simply stuck her arms out.
Maki being surprised at him dodging her attack at point blank is probably because he easily reacted at dodged it inches from her face. We don’t know why she was shocked there.
What we do know is that the point blank dodge is slower than his speed of sound charge at Maki, because PS requires them to build up speed over distance to hit that speed. He did not dodge Maki’s punch at Supersonic speeds
 
Does this affect reactions? Because plenty of characters dodge or react to PB at point blank range
 
Does this affect reactions? Because plenty of characters dodge or react to PB at point blank range
This is actually a good point, piercing blood is canonically over Mach 1 and most calcs of characters blocking/dodging it put them over the Maki calc, also in most feats the characters are blatantly relative to/faster than PB so its not just saying "calcs > author intent", if they were struggling with its speed then sure but people like Kenjaku can dodge it without even trying
 
Does this affect reactions? Because plenty of characters dodge or react to PB at point blank range
This is actually a good point, piercing blood is canonically over Mach 1 and most calcs of characters blocking/dodging it put them over the Maki calc, also in most feats the characters are blatantly relative to/faster than PB so its not just saying "calcs > author intent", if they were struggling with its speed then sure but people like Kenjaku can dodge it without even trying
We ain't doing it again. In all examples, character is actually struggling immensely against PB speed. Them being portrayed visually relative to it is just prime example of what evading punches rule meant to prevent.
Only way you can actually argue for JK chars having higher reactions, is to give them much lower perceptions at same moment, which is nonsensical.
Kenjaku is somewhat special, but If he actually had actually comparable much higher reactions, situations like this wouldn't happen
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That one's still kinda confusing. First he's smiling but the second eye panel is making it seem like he's surprised by how close its gotten.
Yeah, it's somewhat ambiguous situation.
But I interpret as Kenjaku as getting almost blitzed by PB, dodging it at the last moment, and then continuing smiling. Kenjaku is def not intended to be x4 faster than PB here(as calcs would let you believe).
Another example of Kenjaku performance against PB fired from several meters. He is clearly inferior to it speedwise
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The problem with piercing blood feats is that from a strictly visual perspective they require characters to be faster than it to accomplish those dodges, but narratively they should barely be able to dodge it.

It’s like dodging punches thing, scaling characters many times above something they are supposed to at most be relative to in speeds.


.
 
The problem with piercing blood feats is that from a strictly visual perspective they require characters to be faster than it to accomplish those dodges, but narratively they should barely be able to dodge it.



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Nah, some feats are just subsonic.
 
Kenjaku also says piercing blood is scary.
He also got caught off guard by a move he states is slower than PB sooo.
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Nah, some feats are just subsonic.
No, there is a hard limit on how close stuff can get to your face before any movement requires you to clear the way faster than it moves, but there is a rule against such dodges when the narrative doesn’t support it so as to not make two peak humans with near equal stats supersonic with calcs because the artist happened to draw one of them dodging a punch mm from their face.
 
"point blank" only applies if the attack started from extreme proximity not failing to react until its in close proximity
You know what I mean, it got right to his eyes but he wasn't surprised at all when he dodged it. Typically you're a bit taken aback when dodging an attack at that close proximity
Folks will see someone failing to react to something until it’s touching their eye lashes and call it a speed feat instead of an obviously exaggerated scene.
Folks will say anything for the downgrade
 
No, because you guys seem to just not read any counter arguments to your takes, you just ignore them

Characters having over half a dozen Supersonic feats? Nah, they didn't happen

Special Grade Sorcerers being narratively faster than a Grade 1? Nah, cause a nerfed Maki has a single Subsonic feat (even though she can literally count every frame of Naoya's movement and explicitly reacted to his Mach one speed)
 
No, because you guys seem to just not read any counter arguments to your takes, you just ignore them

Characters having over half a dozen Supersonic feats? Nah, they didn't happen

Special Grade Sorcerers being narratively faster than a Grade 1? Nah, cause a nerfed Maki has a single Subsonic feat (even though she can literally count every frame of Naoya's movement and explicitly reacted to his Mach one speed)
Then you argue that and quit ragebaiting by posting "larping" memes.
 
As much as I obviously disagree with this CRT, IF it actually gets accepted (which I doubt) at bare minimum I would say Maki scales to Naoya's Mach 1 speed as I said in my previous comment

And for a more in depth reason as to why: it's because she explicitly reacts to it in the story, when Naoya is travelling at Mach one Maki is still able to count all 24 of his frames and react to his touch to not get frozen, this is made very clear in both the manga and the anime

Also has anyone voted yet? I want to see the Agrees and Disagrees
 
No, because you guys seem to just not read any counter arguments to your takes, you just ignore them

Characters having over half a dozen Supersonic feats? Nah, they didn't happen

Special Grade Sorcerers being narratively faster than a Grade 1? Nah, cause a nerfed Maki has a single Subsonic feat (even though she can literally count every frame of Naoya's movement and explicitly reacted to his Mach one speed)
Did you like, even attempt to take part in the CRT that made this change?
This ain’t the place to do this my guy, all of this has been went over already.

Nobody is pretending like there isn’t absolutely any Supersonic feats.
It’s the fact that the author has portrayed on numerous occasions that a lot of characters are not meant to operate at that speed.
 
It’s the fact that the author has portrayed on numerous occasions that a lot of characters are not meant to operate at that speed.
Blatantly wrong

I mean you can say this for SOME characters (anyone below heavy hitter level obv) but if he really didn't want high tier characters to move at Supersonic speed he wouldn't have Kenjaku treating piercing blood so casually, he would have at least made it look like he struggled but he never does, and he does this multiple times
 
wouldn't have Kenjaku treating piercing blood so casually, he would have at least made it look like he struggled but he never does, and he does this multiple times
Practically in all cases, he manages to dodge it at almost last moment, while it being fired from several meters at least. And he is forced to use gravity against Supernova(which is slower than PB). Gege clearly intended for Kenjaku to be slower than PB
 
Blatantly wrong

I mean you can say this for SOME characters (anyone below heavy hitter level obv) but if he really didn't want high tier characters to move at Supersonic speed he wouldn't have Kenjaku treating piercing blood so casually, he would have at least made it look like he struggled but he never does, and he does this multiple times
Kenjaku is above the heavy hitters and other high tiers. There's a reason Kenjaku still kept up with Yuki and Choso while restricted by Garuda and it ain't because they were weakened. Also, what becomes of PB if high tiers are above supersonic with hypersonic perception? It starts to become a dismissal of Gege's choice in values like Mach 3 Naoya being above the superhuman Maki and Toji.
 
Kenjaku is above the heavy hitters and other high tiers. There's a reason Kenjaku still kept up with Yuki and Choso while restricted by Garuda and it ain't because they were weakened. Also, what becomes of PB if high tiers are above supersonic with hypersonic perception? It starts to become a dismissal of Gege's choice in values like Mach 3 Naoya being above the superhuman Maki and Toji.
Gege also portrayed that Toji would be able to easily handle Mach 3 Naoya, and that every time Maki was blitzed before hand she literally COULDN'T SEE HIM, after she was able to see him she was dodging all of his attacks with ease
Didn't only Yuta and Higuruma notice the 0.01 sec domain activation?
Less than 0.01 second domain, but yeah
 
we come to realize the way Toji handles such speed is through sensing changes in the air not his physical prowess.
When you say we, do you mean the readers or powerscalers

Because if he is directly stated to be able to do that in the story, sure

But I just re-read the chapters for this and I don't remember it saying Toji needed to do that to dodge it, just that Toji both had this ability, and can also handle Naoya at top speed

That's why I ask, when you say "we come to realize", do you mean the readers or powerscalers, because the readers don't come to realize that Toji needed pre-cog to dodge it

If you've come to the conclusion that because he has have pre-cog and he can dodge it, he must need pre-cog to dodge it, that makes zero sense

But I have something more important to say anyways so I don't even care that much
 
During my re-reading I learned that Maki absolutely was mentally nerfed and the story literally tells you

Miyo, after easily beating Maki, says that she cant concentrate, and that she wouldn't allow herself to grow stronger from teachers before (literally nerfing herself through her own mentality, which is the textbook definition of a mental nerf)

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After her 1000 matches with Daido, she both easily beats him head on and is stated to "see the light" which is likely implying she accepted allowing herself to grow stronger through the teaching of others

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And she definitely got physically stronger too, she fought him over a thousand times, thats a shit ton of training right there

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There is no logical way to say she wasn't mentally nerfed when the story actively says she was in multiple ways
 
When you say we, do you mean the readers or powerscalers

Because if he is directly stated to be able to do that in the story, sure

But I just re-read the chapters for this and I don't remember it saying Toji needed to do that to dodge it, just that Toji both had this ability, and can also handle Naoya at top speed

That's why I ask, when you say "we come to realize", do you mean the readers or powerscalers, because the readers don't come to realize that Toji needed pre-cog to dodge it

If you've come to the conclusion that because he has have pre-cog and he can dodge it, he must need pre-cog to dodge it, that makes zero sense

But I have something more important to say anyways so I don't even care that much
Reread.

During my re-reading I learned that Maki absolutely was mentally nerfed and the story literally tells you
Yes we all know that.

Her training made her unlock the ability to sense shit. That's why I say we come to realize that was what Maki meant by Toji could handle that speed.
 
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