Upgrade for Saya from Saya No Uta (CTR)

[EnterprisingAnt938]

Current Tier: 9-C

Proposed Tier: At least 5-A, possibly High 5-A, likely 4-C

Reasoning:

The current profile for Saya appears to ignore several important statements from the visual novel and supplementary notes regarding the true nature of her species and biological capabilities.

Attack Potency:

In Dr. Ogai's notes, Saya's species is described as being able to manipulate and control all the energy of all matter on Earth to rewrite the genetic code in its own image.

Saya herself demonstrates the ability to influence and overwrite surrounding organic matter on a massive scale.
This is important because the profile currently treats Saya as physically limited to Street level AP despite her biological influence extending to an entire planetary ecosystem. The feat is not simple corruption or infection, but complete genetic restructuring at a global scale.

As a result, Saya should likely scale far higher than her current rating, potentially reaching at least Planet level due to affecting and overtaking an entire biosphere.

Speed:

The current profile rates Saya at human-level speed, but Dr. Ogai's notes also state that beings of Saya's species are capable of traversing dimensions and universes within extremely short periods of time.

Additionally, Saya was not explicitly summoned into the universe, but instead arrived through instinctual movement across dimensions.
If these statements are accepted literally, this would imply Faster Than Light travel speed at minimum, potentially far higher depending on interpretation

The reason Saya seems slower in the story is because she was "pregnant," which weakened her. When she ate Koji, she collapsed to the ground, unable to move, because she was about to give birth to her "children"

Conclusion:

The current profile appears to heavily downplay Saya by focusing exclusively on her direct physical feats while ignoring the cosmological and biological implications stated in the source material

 

[LiewtiStar]

I'm not convinced enough for AP, as manipulation/controlling would only indicate some range over the planet which Saya already have on her profile.
Idk for speed but she has Interdimensional range with Dimensional Travel

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

I'm not convinced enough for AP, as manipulation/controlling would only indicate some range over the planet which Saya already have on her profile.
Idk for speed but she has Interdimensional range with Dimensional Travel

Hmm, I really think that simply reducing the feat to range would be to underestimate the amount of energy required to take control and control all the planet's bioenergy to overwrite the genetic code in her image the latter can be interpreted in many ways But nothing is explicitly confirmed, so I preferred not to mention it

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

I'm not convinced enough for AP, as manipulation/controlling would only indicate some range over the planet which Saya already have on her profile.
Idk for speed but she has Interdimensional range with Dimensional Travel

Well, I wasn't sure whether to continue with this, but I realized I wasn't very clear in my answer, so please excuse my persistence. The biosphere is the layer of the Earth where life develops, encompassing water, land, and air. Controlling bioenergy also implies controlling biomass, which is the organic matter and renewable energy of the entire planet. Saya can transform all of this mass at once to terraform the planet. And when we talk about biomass, we're also talking about biological cycles, oceans, the atmosphere, planetary chemistry, and so on. We know Saya can control all of this simultaneously thanks to Fuminori's perception (I'll explain this later), but even if we remove Fuminori from the equation, Ogai made it clear that once Saya obtained all the information about the human race, she could conquer the planet whenever she wanted (yes, Saya's most relevant feats are in Ogai's notes).

Aside from the fact that, as I already mentioned, Saya is capable of consuming all this energy, well, now let's move on to what isn't explicitly confirmed. As I said, the way Saya rewrites the planet's genetic code to make it in her image can be interpreted as the creation of a parallel dimension of flesh. This interpretation gains more weight with Fuminori's perception of the world; he saw absolutely everything as a carnal aberration. Consequently, what was an aberration he saw as normal. This is relevant because we know that Fuminori's condition isn't normal. To get straight to the point, he not only saw things that weren't there, but he could interact with those things as if they were actually there. The most explicit example is when he killed his neighbor. To him, humans were repulsive monsters with multiple tentacles, and he could sever those tentacles. But if humans only have four limbs, what exactly was he severing? And it wasn't something he was imagining, because the neighbor screamed in pain every time Fuminori severed his nonexistent tentacles. That said, Saya was the only one who detected what was happening to Fuminori's brain and also the only one who could replicate it. Ryoko said that Fuminori's condition was due to one of Ogai's experiments, so it was likely that a fragment of Saya had been introduced into her brain. And what she was seeing was the parallel dimension that Saya was creating. I also want to emphasize Saya's appearance, because to the people who had Fuminori's condition, she looked exactly the same, and I mean, her appearance is indescribable; it wouldn't make much sense for everyone to imagine her looking the same. As I said, this isn't explicitly confirmed in the work, but there are details that suggest it. If you're not entirely convinced, you can take it as a simple theory and ignore this part of the argument, but I remain certain of what I said about the AP.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

"select the most prosperous species that they encounter, take control of it, and, in doing so, gain dominance over the planet's biosphere. In other words, they 'hijack' the entire species"

"Upon finding the species that exert the most control over the planet, they overwrite its genetic code and remake it in their own image"

I'm sorry brother but this is clearly just Saya and her species taking control of the most advanced life form and by default taking control over the planet. Not some literal "becoming the planet" kind of thing.


Speed:

This is less of a movement thing and more of an interdimensional thing. Just like how in certain works of fiction some monsters can move between dimensions but are just peak human when running/fighting.


In conclusion... nothing really, the scans you presented doesn't prove anything that would upgrade the AP or speed. I like the whole "Lovecraft" undertones tho

Also welcome to the wiki, I recommend obviously sticking to english as that's the main language pero hay ciertos hilos que juntan a los usuarios que hablan otros idiomas. Espero te guste y pos te vaya bien.

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

Lo siento, hermano, pero esto es claramente Saya y su especie tomando el control de la forma de vida más avanzada y, por extensión, del planeta. No se trata de una especie de "convertirse en el planeta" literal.


Velocidad:

Esto no se trata tanto de movimiento, sino más bien de una cuestión interdimensional. Al igual que en ciertas obras de ficción, algunos monstruos pueden moverse entre dimensiones, pero solo alcanzan la capacidad humana máxima al correr o luchar.


En conclusión... en realidad nada, los escaneos que presentaste no prueban nada que mejore el AP o la velocidad. Aunque me gustan los matices "lovecraftianos".

También bienvenido a la wiki, obviamente recomiendo seguir con el inglés ya que ese es el idioma principal, pero hay ciertos hilos que juntan a los usuarios que hablan otros idiomas. Espero te guste y pos te vaya bien.

Honestly, you really got me thinking, but I think you skipped over several important things. To begin with, Saya and her species seek out extradimensional life forms to feed on their information or to reproduce. I don't know when I said something like Saya can transform into a planet, but what I made clear is that she can control all the bioenergy and matter of the planet. I think I explained what this entails in another answer, and I really don't think anything you mentioned contradicts this. Yes, they select the most prosperous species and, by extension, control the planet's biosphere, so what? Well, they do it anyway. Saya only needs to understand a species to have total control over it, just like she did with the rats. So I don't know if you explained it very succinctly, but honestly, I don't understand how that contradicts the AP thing.

And as for speed, as I said, Saya's species travels across the universe and dimensions, so if they don't need to travel through space to reach a planet, perhaps she's hypersonic, since all her victims didn't even see her before she was already devouring and tearing them apart. Adding to that, she was living in a hospital, literally terrorizing patients and stealing organs, yet no doctor or staff member ever saw her. Considering how powerful Saya's presence is, I would say she has decent speed (update)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Extradimensional in this context seems to mean "lifeforms that can reach other dimensions". It can obviously mean higher dimensional beings but that requires a lot of context and information, something that just is not in these scans. As Saya is a being from a different universe/dimension it only seems logical to whoever was making those assumptions that waiting for a species that could contact or reach other dimensions/universe was the wisest choice instead of randomly looking for life in other universes.

Also, you need to prove Saya can take control of the bioenergy and matter of the planet because NOTHING in the scans even remotely hints at that and no, like I said above, taking control of the biosphere is contextual and explained, they are not taking control over matter and energy present. It is explained that its just they taking control of the apex species and thus gaining control over their planet, not in a "I can nuke the world" way but in a societal one. Controlling humanity doesn't give her control over matter or energy, just over the dominant species that controls the planet.

Mind you, the word used is "dominance" which can mean a social or hierarchal thing (which in this context is lol). So no, nothing about tier 5 let alone 4.

I don't see any interpretation that leads to MFTL. If saya travels the universe with sheer speed/movement then we have absolutely zero timeframe or reference point for it to be MFTL. She could be travelling at trillions of times the speed of light, could be travelling at a human pace for billions of years, etc. Also from what the scans describe it seems she just pops in planets that hold intelligent life something interdimensional travel can achieve just fine.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

You are essentially invalidating what it means to have dominion over a planet's biosphere due to an alleged lack of information and you do the same with concepts like extradimensionality, including the interaction of extradimensional beings for the same reason as before as I said.

Yes, because the context is there and it doesn't support your claims. You are looking at "biosphere" and "dominion" and losing sight of everything else.

I can understand the speed issue to a certain extent, but it wouldn't make sense for Saya to fly to Earth for millions of years; wouldn't anyone see her land? And if you saw the scans, you'll know that Saya came to Earth purely by instinct, since she wasn't conscious until she materialized in the universe. Anyway, I understand if they want to leave Saya in 9-C even if they consider this as their hax, although only 2 people replied to this thread so...

I don't know, don't care either.

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

Yes, because the context is there and it doesn't support your claims. You are looking at "biosphere" and "dominion" and losing sight of everything else.



I don't know, don't care either.

I've changed my mind and I conclude that you're completely wrong; at no point is it implied that control over the biosphere is a social issue, and to begin with, that wouldn't make sense. It seems you took literally what you shouldn't have taken literally, and conceptually what was literal. I already explained this in another answer, but since you apparently didn't read it, I'll explain it again: The biosphere refers to the layer where all life on Earth develops: water, air, and land. The biosphere also contains things like biomass, atmosphere, or planetary chemistry, etc. If the biosphere encompasses all of this, why would dominating the biosphere be a social issue and not a literal one? If Ogai meant to express something like, "Saya's species seeks the dominant species to take control over HER," it doesn't make sense for her to mention the biosphere, as they are different concepts. Now you want me to prove that Saya can manipulate Earth's matter? Well, she demonstrated that throughout the entire game. Sorry if this sounds aggressive; I don't know if you've played Saya no Uta, but I also don't want you to think I'm getting angry about leveling up a fictional character. Getting back to the point, having control over biology also requires having control over matter, although this depends on the level of biological control, of course. But Saya has supernatural biological control; she can transform other living beings and turn them into beings that resemble her. And going back to the topic of the biosphere, now, with this in mind, does it make sense that her dominion refers to something social? No. Because it's never stated that Saya can control humanity; she can control humanity's biology. Also, if it referred only to partial control over the Earth, she could have mentioned it that way because, again, the biosphere is a completely different concept. And since you're misunderstanding my arguments again, no, I never said that Saya could destroy the planet like a nuclear bomb. Saya's species is dedicated to the terraforming of planets, and AP is not just destructive damage; AP also refers to the energy required for a given feat odio que los textos se traduzcan solos ahhhh

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

Yes, because the context is there and it doesn't support your claims. You are looking at "biosphere" and "dominion" and losing sight of everything else.



I don't know, don't care either.

Oh right, I forgot a scan that was also relevant; I'll put it here in case i need it later

 

[EnterprisingAnt938]

I'm not convinced enough for AP, as manipulation/controlling would only indicate some range over the planet which Saya already have on her profile.
Idk for speed but she has Interdimensional range with Dimensional Travel

Uhhhh I'm so sorry, I hadn't realized that for some reason my reply was sent in Spanish Well, I just updated it, I don't know if you still want to read it

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

You can't tag people, just go to the profiles and link them the thread