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A Warlord vs a Hero (Star Wars vs Chainsaw Man) 10-7-0 (-GRACE-)

Ruby_R_Dracula

She/Her
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Did this once, back then with 8-A Griev and Weakened Pochita, did not go Well

but now that Griev is 7-B, this makes me able to use Part 2 Pochita which gives him a new Advantage and a New Disadvantage oop

Rules:
•"Part 2" Key is used
•Speed is Equalized
•Optional Equipment is restricted
•Otherwise, Everything else is SBA

It's the same master I've served in every battle, every duel, every war it's within me it's what I am that the Jedi are not--and it is what gives me purpose': @NikHelton, @Ruby_R_Dracula, @DarthSorox,@Doggo, @MrSpockVulcan, @CastoriceTheFifth, @DarkLock92, @Harith0cell, @Delusionaltx2, @MaskedDragon908
Scales to 79.374 Megatons of TNT
Scales to 88,098.789 Metric Tons

Because of what he does, he is marked and killed by many Devils... But he revs his engine and arises again and again: @IbukiDoujisGiantTail, @GodEarh206, @Anonymous_Learner, @TegamiBachi25, @GunshyFever, @Naito-desu, @Epyriel
Upscales from 15.94 Megatons of TNT, Higher with Chainsaws
Upscales from 925,664,855.00 Metric Tons

Yoru Appears and somehow does her usual BS:

Advantages:

General Grievous
-Around 5x Stronger in AP
-Way more skilled
-Lightsaber heat is way hotter than Pochita's Resistance

=Four Arms

Pochita
-10507.1234861x Stronger in LS
-High-Mid Regen
-Chains can be used in range
 
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Hoooo boy

I was also thinking of doing this cuz....many limbs and such

This is gonna be fun
 
Hmm I'd give it to Pochita Mid-High Diff

Since speed is equalized Pochita can't do his usual "blitz lol" strategy which gives Grievous a chance to tear through him with better skill and lightsabers, but when both only really need that one hit (lightsabers vs massive LS difference & chainsaws), I think in the moment where they trade hits, Pochita gets back up because of better regen, NTM that's just in general how Pochita fights, he can be torn through a whole bunch of times but still regens in the moment

Does Grievous have any ranged options whatsoever? BC if not then Pochita can also just trap him with chains at a distance and tear through him like that also
 
Hmm I'd give it to Pochita Mid-High Diff

Since speed is equalized Pochita can't do his usual "blitz lol" strategy which gives Grievous a chance to tear through him with better skill and lightsabers, but when both only really need that one hit (lightsabers vs massive LS difference & chainsaws), I think in the moment where they trade hits, Pochita gets back up because of better regen, NTM that's just in general how Pochita fights, he can be torn through a whole bunch of times but still regens in the moment

Does Grievous have any ranged options whatsoever? BC if not then Pochita can also just trap him with chains at a distance and tear through him like that also
Grevious LOVES melee, but he does have a blaster which...honestly isnt gonna help him.
 
The issue is that one of those chains is eventually gonna grab a limb or two and crush him
true,

but last I've checked, He has like 4 Chains
and well Grievous has 4 Arms.

and if one of them does grab hold on of Grievous' limbs, nothing stops him from slicing it, while or before he gets pulled
 
true,

but last I've checked, He has like 4 Chains
and well Grievous has 4 Arms.

and if one of them does grab hold on of Grievous' limbs, nothing stops him from slicing it, while or before he gets pulled
Gravy has to react REALLY fast and notice one of the chains touching him quickly if he wants to cut it off


He can still counter them that way, but it's not gonna be something that will happen all the time. The moment he fails...uh yeah rip bro.
 
Tbf I'm pretty sure Grievous could slice the chains with his sabers before they could trap him.
but last I've checked, He has like 4 Chains
and well Grievous has 4 Arms.
and if one of them does grab hold on of Grievous' limbs, nothing stops him from slicing it, while or before he gets pulled
Pochita isn't limited to only 4 chains, he just has 4 arms, he can shoot out as many as he wants from his body since he literally grows them.

Grievous can rip through them with lightsabers, but if one grabs him them its gonna rip through him, and Pochita has managed to sneak them onto opponents if he ever directly clashes with them like he did during the Weapon Fiends/Makima fight. In a trade exchange where they both cut the other down, even assuming Grievous makes it out unscathed, Pochita can easily sneak a chain onto him. Pochita isn't really a ranged fighter despite the capability to be so, but this is an in-character way he uses chains
 
LS meta may be in jeopardy fyi
 
LS meta may be in jeopardy fyi
huh, well I don't think it changes anything tbh

Pochita can still hold down Grievious and just has to rev up the chainsaw to tear through him rather than just ripping through him at a touch and hey thats actually canon for how CSM fights go lol
 
Grievous dominates with skill and superior weaponry. His use of extra limbs is also far more impressive. Pochita's regeneration is active, not passive, for most of the story. Grievous simply slices him to pieces before he pulls the trigger, and then incinerates his heart.
 
It hurts me to say this but I think Pochita's regen is just too much for my goat to deal with.
Pochita fra
It's enough to prevent him from pulling the starter. When Yor deprived him of his arms and legs, Pochita simply begged someone to give him blood to restore himself.
 
Grievous dominates with skill and superior weaponry. His use of extra limbs is also far more impressive. Pochita's regeneration is active, not passive, for most of the story. Grievous simply slices him to pieces before he pulls the trigger, and then incinerates his heart.
you voting or not?
 
Aye, so for this one, similarly to the Vader match you might know who I believe wins but I am honestly going to try to be as unbiased as possible and show things how I see them as I usually do.

Starting with Grievous's kit and win cons, he has the AP advantage by about 5x, the better stated skill, four arms with lightsabers, superior weapon training (he is likely better with lightsabers than Pochita is with chainsaws). Those lightsabers are also fatal to Pochita's body if they land a clean hit. If Grievous can consistently cut Pochita apart and prevent him from re-engaging, then he can win. His ability to slice through Pochita's chains with lightsabers is also a fair counter, I do not think Pochita's chains are an unstoppable force or anything.

Then this is where I state that I think Pochita's kit and win cons are better.

The AP gap is somewhat big? (is it?), but it is not a stomp gap like the 8x required. Grievous is around 5x stronger, but Pochita is also listed as higher with his chainsaws and his damage is slicing and cutting based (which you can actually calc). Cutting attacks are naturally better at focusing force into a much smaller area than blunt attacks. For example, even if one character has 5x more durability, a cutting edge applying force over something like 1/50th or 1/100th of the contact area can create far higher pressure at the point of contact. So like the example I used in that thread, you can have Generals durability up to 40x weaker than Pochita's chainsaws.

Pochita's mobility is also too good not to be talked about. Speed is equalized but Pochita can boost his speed using his chains and slingshot himself off various objects and such. That gives him a movement and positioning advantage by lettinf him maneuver around the battlefield, and along with that he can flash step around in different angles to build momentum to deliver devastating K.E. attacks like a high-speed kick or chainsaw rush if he pleased.

The biggest issue for Grievous for me is that he has to play this almost perfectly. He can cut the chains but as Ibuki mentioned, Pochita is not limited to just four chainsaws and the chains can come from multiple angles or be used during direct clashes. A common example is them coming from his feet. If he gets Grievous tied up, Pochita's massive LS advantage can let him reel him in and slice him apart. Not to mention he can burrow them underground for surprise attacks and catch him off guard as well.
PNMPsX4.png
Dv45UBv.png

The heart and starter argument also does not convince me as a good Grievous win con either, since Pochita's heart is not some fragile weak point that gets tapped and instantly loses. It has already taken ridiculous punishment before, like Yoru slicing his heart just for him to put himself back together easily.
qCOQLze.png

Pochita also has a habit of pulling his chord before or during fatal situations (example above) and even if his arms are damaged, that does not automatically stop him from revving because he can use his teeth or other methods to activate it. More importantly Pochita is still a Devil, and Devils can regenerate through blood and by repurposing the blood already in their bodies. His profile already notes that he can regenerate from just a heart without external blood consumption. So Grievous simply slicing him up is kind of extremely generous to me. Then you have the "Pochita begged for blood" point which also kinda sucks. Sinnce in that situation he was low on blood and was not seriously trying to fight Yoru in the first place. Clearly not demonstrating that he is helpless every time he takes damage. Pochita needing blood when badly drained does not erase the fact that his regen and ability to get back up are repeatedly emphasized, so that is incredibly weak.

All in all, Grievous's skill and four armed lightsabers let him fatally damage Pochita. But Pochita can afford mistakes far better than Grievous can. If Grievous lands hits, Pochita can regenerate and keep fighting even while being torn apart. And using Ibuki's argument again, if Pochita lands a chainsaw hug, Grievous is pretty much finished because his internals are vulnerable if his chest cavity is opened and he does not have regen like Pochita to help with that.
382YDKI.png

So from my analysis here, I think Grievous has the better stated skill and AP, but Pochita has better survivability, far superior LS, more forgiving win cons, far better mobility, better ranged and restraint options chainsaws that can close the AP/durability gap and all of Denji's abilities including his instinctive action. Grievous has to keep cutting him apart and stop his recovery consistently while Pochita only needs one good chain catch or close range exchange to win.

Imo Pochita wins 9/10 times here. There is very little Grievous can do here in all honesty and his win cons are extremely generous compared to what Pochita has. At best you can argue that he outlasts upclose and takes Pochita in every encounter which is just not happening because of Pochita's kit, not a stomp but not close either.
 
The AP gap is somewhat big? (is it?), but it is not a stomp gap like the 8x required. Grievous is around 5x stronger, but Pochita is also listed as higher with his chainsaws and his damage is slicing and cutting based (which you can actually calc). Cutting attacks are naturally better at focusing force into a much smaller area than blunt attacks. For example, even if one character has 5x more durability, a cutting edge applying force over something like 1/50th or 1/100th of the contact area can create far higher pressure at the point of contact. So like the example I used in that thread, you can have Generals durability up to 40x weaker than Pochita's chainsaws.
This isn't very relevant because it's neither accepted in Pochita's profile nor is it a wiki standard/rule.

There's nothing in Pochita's profile that says he's several times more powerful with the chainsaw. There are no statistical values or any kind of multiplier. It's simply an unknown AP increase.

Also, none of these calculations matter because they aren't accepted and indexed blogs in the profile. So there's nothing like "40x weaker than the chainsaws," Grievous still has a 5x advantage.
 
This isn't very relevant because it's neither accepted in Pochita's profile nor is it a wiki standard/rule.

There's nothing in Pochita's profile that says he's several times more powerful with the chainsaw. There are no statistical values or any kind of multiplier. It's simply an unknown AP increase.

Also, none of these calculations matter because they aren't accepted and indexed blogs in the profile. So there's nothing like "40x weaker than the chainsaws," Grievous still has a 5x advantage.
It does not really need to be indexed, well, it already is since that is just basic slicing and cutting damage (hence the "higher with chainsaws"). All I did was show you how potent it was by focusing on a smaller point upon the opponent's body. It is not even an AP calc and is just basic physics. It has always been a thing, so if you are only learning about it just now, then you have been enlightened on how potent these slicing attacks really are.

You can debate about if it should be limited dura negation instead of higher in AP though.
I was just observing the vsthread and wanted to say the thing above, I won't be actively participating.
Honestly, Grievous has faced a ton of Jedi; instinctive reaction is like a walk in the park for him.
Aye, no worries. It was just meant to add salt to the wound, so no matter.
 
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It does not really need to be indexed, well, it already is since that is just basic slicing and cutting damage (hence the "higher with chainsaws". All I did was show you how potent it was by focusing on a smaller point upon the opponent's body. It is not even an AP calc and is just basic physics. It has always been a thing, so if you are only learning about it just now, then you have been enlightened on how potent these slicing attacks really are.
Yes, it's necessary; to use things, they need to be indexed. Piercing power on the wiki isn't treated as a multi-fold increase in AP by default in verses; if it is, point me to the wiki page that says that, otherwise you're just making things up.

Yes, it's just "greater with chainsaws," but nothing says it's several times greater like 40x or anything like that, nor do the statistical values mention that, so it's not something to be used.

I don't care about real-life physics; what matters to me is how the wiki treats it. If "it's always been like this," then it will be easy for you to index a link to a wiki page saying that cutting power is by default dozens of times greater than a character's base AP.

The only things you linked are you and another regular user talking, which is irrelevant.
 
Yes, it's necessary; to use things, they need to be indexed. Piercing power on the wiki isn't treated as a multi-fold increase in AP by default in verses; if it is, point me to the wiki page that says that, otherwise you're just making things up.

Yes, it's just "greater with chainsaws," but nothing says it's several times greater like 40x or anything like that, nor do the statistical values mention that, so it's not something to be used.

I don't care about real-life physics; what matters to me is how the wiki treats it. If "it's always been like this," then it will be easy for you to index a link to a wiki page saying that cutting power is by default dozens of times greater than a character's base AP.

The only things you linked are you and another regular user talking, which is irrelevant.
You're mixing things up then because it's not an AP increase. All it does is focus on a point where the opponent's durability is incredibly weaker, considering it is on a far smaller surface. And the example I used to calculate it uses realistic values. Honestly, best we call it limited dura negation (considering its just focusing AP on a smaller point, it's only listed as higher on Pochita's profile because it is more potent than his body in the series). And just because the wiki does not push it onto you does not mean numbers cannot be brought into consideration. If it were widely debated it could be added, but it really is not necessary. As I said, it's basic physics. It is not stronger than any character. It just attacks on small surfaces where the opponent's durability is worse. Once you get that, you should pretty much understand the logistics behind it.

Not everything needs to be a strict wiki rule for you to use common sense for something really simple like this. Making things up is a stretch, are you saying that slicing attacks are similar to blunt ones and have no mechanical function?
 
I'm 50/50 on if piercing/cutting attacks need to be indexed or not. On one hand I get it because not everyone will know if a person has cutting/piercing attacks. On the other hand it's common sense everyone over 10 should know. And if for some reason piercing/cutting attacks need to be indexed on profiles, then the durability of characters over a quantified area of their body should ALSO be indexed (Because it is the exact opposite), which I think we can all agree is impractical and stupid. I feel like most people can work things out just fine on a vs match without being needed to be told smth like "hey, cutting attacks mitigate durability".

That said the peeps in the thread can come to a mutual agreement and it wouldn't be hard to approximate how effective the chainsaws here would be by taking the most amount of force Grievous has withstood over a small area, and then from there approximating his durability over the area the chainsaw would act. It's basic division. In most cases the most amount of force someone withstands over a small area is from a fist that scales to their value. So all you'd need to do is take the area of a fist and divide it by the area of the part of the chainsaw acting on him to get his durability within that area of his body.
 
You're mixing things up then because it's not an AP increase. All it does is focus on a point where the opponent's durability is incredibly weaker, considering it is on a far smaller surface. And the example I used to calculate it uses realistic values. Honestly, best we call it limited dura negation (considering its just focusing AP on a smaller point, it's only listed as higher on Pochita's profile because it is more potent than his body in the series).
It's a shame that this isn't accepted; it's not indexed, so we can simply ignore it.

Yes, everything needs to be indexed, that's why we have profiles, you know? To index things for us to use. That's why we have hundreds of pages of rules and standards, you know?

And just because the wiki does not push it onto you does not mean numbers cannot be brought into consideration.
Like, we literally don't need to take that into consideration. If there's literally no standard stating that slashing attacks can overcome the target's durability (even if that target is several times more durable than the slashing attack's AP), then it's something not to be used, especially when you're arguing that it exceeds it by 40x.

Not everything needs to be a strict wiki rule for you to use common sense for something really simple like this. Making things up is a stretch, are you saying that slicing attacks are similar to blunt ones and have no mechanical function?
Common sense of whom? You and some other random user? Well, my common sense tells me there's not that much difference.

Actually, looking at an old conversation between DT and others, we have this:

Making things up is a stretch, are you saying that slicing attacks are similar to blunt ones and have no mechanical function?
What I think is what's accepted on the wiki, which is simply slightly superior to an undetermined degree. Nothing like "surpassing the target's durability by dozens of times".
 
That said the peeps in the thread can come to a mutual agreement and it wouldn't be hard to approximate how effective the chainsaws here would be by taking the most amount of force Grievous has withstood over a small area, and then from there approximating his durability over the area the chainsaw would act.
No need. lol.

Grifous has 5x greater durability than Pochita's AP, and nothing in Pochita's profile indicates that his piercing power exceeds 5x by several times. The most we have is that he can one-shot enemies similar to him? Well, it doesn't matter, we don't have values for one-shot attacks in verses.
 
Grifous has 5x greater durability than Pochita's AP, and nothing in Pochita's profile indicates that his piercing power exceeds 5x by several times.
Because piercing damage doesn't exceed your own ap. It's the same ap. It's just acting on a less durable area. This is precisely why I mentioned this:
And if for some reason piercing/cutting attacks need to be indexed on profiles, then the durability of characters over a quantified area of their body should ALSO be indexed (Because it is the exact opposite), which I think we can all agree is impractical and stupid.
It's dependent on the ENEMY's durability over a smaller area. Not your AP. If Grievous has feats of shrugging off slicing attacks from someone comparable to him then he no diffs Pochita's saws. It's that simple. Cutting/Piercing attacks don't upscale, they exploit a weaker area of the opponent. There's a difference. You wouldn't write "higher with piercing damage" because the energy of the attack is the exact same (Or it could be even less). Hence why it's redundant to write it down in the AP section (Writing it under limited durability negation would be fine imo tho)
 
hmm

I should really start voting

Anyways like Nik said, Grievous has the superior skill
being a master of many forms of Jedi Art, and also being able to quickly adapt to an Opponent's fighting style
2bbff5923d4c.jpg

(albeit most likely talking about Jedi here, but I feel like this is something worth to note)

Yes Pochita has Instinctive Action, but Grievous was able to kill Jedi whom have Precog, and also fight against Jedi Masters such as Obi-Wan whom is in the same ballpark in skill as he is

With the fact that He is 5x Stronger and the fact his lightsabers would negate Pochita's durability, I feel like Griev would have a fine time going against Pochita

Yes Pochita can Regen, but nothing really is stopping Grievous from like, slashing him again.


This is probably the only time I would type a message liek this for my boi, or try to argue

but for now, I feel like I can see my Child winning this a bit more.

so Voting for Grievous atleast for now
 
I vote for FrauGrievous, even though his canonical version is often portrayed as a punching bag and pales in comparison to the Grievous from Tartakovsky’s series.

I understand Gunshy’s point, but the concept of a weapon with a limited contact area only provides an unclear advantage, not a 40x multiplier. Imagine an 8-A guy with AP of 100 tons of TNT using an obsidian knife whose blade is 3 nanometers thick, or 3×10^−7 cm. Using the same analogy comparing a punch to a knife tip, the knife’s AP would be 333 megatons. That means a dude at baseline 8-A with a knife that thin could slice apart a guy who can survive the explosion of 7 Tsar Bombas simultaneously, get it?

Pochita's chainsaws might allow him to cut through Grievous’s armor more effectively, but think about it: a 5x AP difference forces him to use 5 times as many attacks to deal the same damage Grievous inflicts in one hit.
The instinctive reaction and sensorics of the guy who turned one of my favorite mangas into a dog’s dream won’t provide any advantages, since Qymaen can fight multiple Jedi who have instinctive reaction and precognition. He also uses his arms far more efficiently, spinning them like fan blades, and objectively a lightsaber is the better weapon. Grievous can block Pochita’s strike, but Pochita cannot block Grievous’s strike. Gushy wrote that Poichi could win using chains, but Fraudeneral only needs to touch the chain with a lightsaber to cut it apart.
And no, Pochita cannot regenerate his heart after a lightsaber strike, because we weren’t shown that Yor cut his heart in half. And even if that were the case (which it isn’t, since the heart is the core of his regeneration), being cut by a blade versus being cut by a plasma sword with a temperature six times hotter than the surface of the Sun is not the same thing. The 5x AP difference and the extreme heat just allow him to incinerate the opponent’s heart in 1–2 strikes.
Those voting for Pochita, can you explain how he would properly deal with lightsabers?

"Grievous stands over the defeated Pochita and hears his voice:

— Thank you, Star Wars.
— Star Wars?!??
— Well yeah, you’re using star swords and participated in wars.
— Ah, right..."
 
I vote for FrauGrievous, even though his canonical version is often portrayed as a punching bag and pales in comparison to the Grievous from Tartakovsky’s series.

I understand Gunshy’s point, but the concept of a weapon with a limited contact area only provides an unclear advantage, not a 40x multiplier. Imagine an 8-A guy with AP of 100 tons of TNT using an obsidian knife whose blade is 3 nanometers thick, or 3×10^−7 cm. Using the same analogy comparing a punch to a knife tip, the knife’s AP would be 333 megatons. That means a dude at baseline 8-A with a knife that thin could slice apart a guy who can survive the explosion of 7 Tsar Bombas simultaneously, get it?

Pochita's chainsaws might allow him to cut through Grievous’s armor more effectively, but think about it: a 5x AP difference forces him to use 5 times as many attacks to deal the same damage Grievous inflicts in one hit.
The instinctive reaction and sensorics of the guy who turned one of my favorite mangas into a dog’s dream won’t provide any advantages, since Qymaen can fight multiple Jedi who have instinctive reaction and precognition. He also uses his arms far more efficiently, spinning them like fan blades, and objectively a lightsaber is the better weapon. Grievous can block Pochita’s strike, but Pochita cannot block Grievous’s strike. Gushy wrote that Poichi could win using chains, but Fraudeneral only needs to touch the chain with a lightsaber to cut it apart.
And no, Pochita cannot regenerate his heart after a lightsaber strike, because we weren’t shown that Yor cut his heart in half. And even if that were the case (which it isn’t, since the heart is the core of his regeneration), being cut by a blade versus being cut by a plasma sword with a temperature six times hotter than the surface of the Sun is not the same thing. The 5x AP difference and the extreme heat just allow him to incinerate the opponent’s heart in 1–2 strikes.
Those voting for Pochita, can you explain how he would properly deal with lightsabers?

"Grievous stands over the defeated Pochita and hears his voice:

— Thank you, Star Wars.
— Star Wars?!??
— Well yeah, you’re using star swords and participated in wars.
— Ah, right..."
"Darth"
Pochita PFP

This guy is made for this thread
 
I don't think you can add a 40x multiplier or really any multiplier to piercing attacks since this is fiction after all (piercing can still 100% work on something with far higher AP than you though, just wanted to point that out)

That said, since grievous is made of metal, wouldn't that make him more resistant to piercing?
 
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