Add Type 8 Immortality (Tensura)

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Edit: The rest has been removed and I will leave the proposal that ActuallySpaceMan42 left:

Immortality (Types 6 & 8; via Parallel Existence, they can resurrect (possess) their other parallel existence as long as one of them remains alive)

For Rimuru:

Immortality Negation (Types 6 & 8; via Imaginary Space/Complex Space; by isolating targets within Imaginary Space, it cuts off their parallel existence and separates their bodies from the main body)

Agree: ActuallySpaceMan42 (Immortality (Types 6 & 8), Immortality Negation (Type 6)

Neutral:

Disagree: ActuallySpaceMan42 (Immortality Negation (Type 8))

---

​

 

[DrunkMan04]

Agree

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Looks alright to me

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Accept

 

[Violatas]

Very straightforward.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Here we talk about the abilities granted by "Parallel Existence".

Immortality (Types 3, 4 & 8), High-Godly (Conceptual [Type 1] & Information [Type 2]; via Parallel Existence, can revive as long as one parallel existence remains, being superior to Mist, who can regenerate under the same condition)

"Body" here isn't physical but rather the Parallel Existence, the "Separate Body" which are all real.

If this is accepted, Rimuru would win:

Immortality Negation (Types 3, 4 & 8), High-Godly (Conceptual [Type 1] & Information [Type 2]; via Imaginary Space/Complex Space; by isolating targets within Imaginary Space, it cuts off their parallel existence and separates their bodies from the main body)

Thanks for reading.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

---

​

I disagree. "Revive" here doesn’t mean that if one of the Parallel Existences remains, the erased body (as a whole aspect) would regenerate. Rather, the remaining Parallel Existence would become the main body. That’s basically the whole point of Acausality Type 3.

So yeah, put me to disagree

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

???

I didn't understand. I'm including the revive option for Type 4, not Type 3 (although a moderator said it can be both 4 and 3, Viet). Type 3 is because Tessta's declaration that it's superior to Mist and can regenerate.

I disagree. "Revive" here doesn’t mean that if one of the Parallel Existences remains, the erased body (as a whole aspect) would regenerate. Rather, the remaining Parallel Existence would become the main body. That’s basically the whole point of Acausality Type 3.

So yeah, put me to disagree

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

After hearing from noctis I have some doubts with it so put me on neutral

 

[Robo432343]

parallel existence is a concept/information?

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

parallel existence is a concept/information?

What I mean by parallel existence is that everyone is "real."

That is, core and soul are within.

The main body is everyone, even if one dies, the one who died can return :v

Edit: Sorry for the bad English.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

???

I didn't understand. I'm including the revive option for Type 4, not Type 3 (although a moderator said it can be both 4 and 3, Viet). Type 3 is because Rain's declaration that it's superior to Mist and can regenerate.

Rain didn't said Parallel existence let the user regenerate tho, or regenerate as long as the PE exist (At least from the scan) , it was not even rain but testa , that said rains Mist let her regenerate, and that Parallel existence is superior to Mist which we know, as Every PE is real.

「何それ？」
「レインはね、自分の身体を分散させて、そのどれか一つの肉片からでも『再生』出来るのよ」

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Rain didn't said Parallel existence let the user regenerate tho, or regenerate as long as the PE exist (At least from the scan) , it was not even rain but testa , that said rains Mist let her regenerate, and that Parallel existence is superior to Mist which we know, as Every PE is real.

I edited it afterwards, you replied to the older message :v

The regeneration comparison is still there tho. The difference between both abilities is how they handle the “real” self and the will/consciousness behind it.

With Ubiquital Mist, Rain can regenerate either the original body or the replica, but only one of them retains the actual free will. So if the body holding that main will dies before regenerating through the other one, then Rain truly dies.

Meanwhile, Parallel Existence doesn’t have that limitation. The text itself says both Velgrynds are the “real her,” not just replicas. All of them are real bodies with their own will, which is exactly why Testarossa considered it superior to Ubiquital Mist.

So the comparison still involves regeneration through another existing body, the difference is just that PE works on a higher level since none of the existences are merely incomplete backups or fake copies.

Edit: Chat gpt helped me organize my thoughts.

 

[Hecky2222]

I disagree. "Revive" here doesn’t mean that if one of the Parallel Existences remains, the erased body (as a whole aspect) would regenerate. Rather, the remaining Parallel Existence would become the main body. That’s basically the whole point of Acausality Type 3.

So yeah, put me to disagree

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Postscript: It's nighttime in my country, so if you reply to this message, I'll reply later. I'll also read if the thread develops further in the morning.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

I edited it afterwards, you replied to the older message :v

The regeneration comparison is still there tho. The difference between both abilities is how they handle the “real” self and the will/consciousness behind it.

With Ubiquital Mist, Rain can regenerate either the original body or the replica, but only one of them retains the actual free will. So if the body holding that main will dies before regenerating through the other one, then Rain truly dies.

Meanwhile, Parallel Existence doesn’t have that limitation. The text itself says both Velgrynds are the “real her,” not just replicas. All of them are real bodies with their own will, which is exactly why Testarossa considered it superior to Ubiquital Mist.

So the comparison still involves regeneration through another existing body, the difference is just that PE works on a higher level since none of the existences are merely incomplete backups or fake copies.

Edit: Chat gpt helped me organize my thoughts.

That doesn’t really mean much. The "similar to Rain’s skill" part is Testa’s guess (not wrong tho), and she says it’s not merely a clone, but rather something closer to Rain’s skill. Basically, a comparative statement.

It doesn’t mean they are the same or similar in the sense that both have same ability. It simply means that, between the two comparisons, Rain’s Mist is the closer analogy.

And we already know that each body is treated as a separate existence, so if the main body dies, the separate body simply takes its place. Nowhere was it stated that the original erased body regenerates (you’re giving them High-Godly Regeneration, which is about restoring all aspects of oneself from complete erasure. So yeah). Even Michael’s "revival" can be explained by the Parallel Existence taking over as the main body afterward.

 

[Bahaha]

I edited it afterwards, you replied to the older message :v

The regeneration comparison is still there tho. The difference between both abilities is how they handle the “real” self and the will/consciousness behind it.

With Ubiquital Mist, Rain can regenerate either the original body or the replica, but only one of them retains the actual free will. So if the body holding that main will dies before regenerating through the other one, then Rain truly dies.

Meanwhile, Parallel Existence doesn’t have that limitation. The text itself says both Velgrynds are the “real her,” not just replicas. All of them are real bodies with their own will, which is exactly why Testarossa considered it superior to Ubiquital Mist.

You discredited your own argument here. PE is superior becuase every body is real, therefore there is no "regeneration" needed. Rain's technique has limitations which requires the regenerating aspect to circumvent those limitations. PE has no reason for regeneration when all bodies will continue existing as the original even if "the original" dies.

The comparison of the two techniques isn't becuase of some "regeneration" aspect, which Parallel Existence has never showcased btw, but because of the cloning of the bodies so a soul can occupy multiple bodies(whereas PE all bodies have a soul so they're all "real")

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Disagree

Both scans are just examples of Acaus type 3 and its negation

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

That doesn’t really mean much. The "similar to Rain’s skill" part is Testa’s guess (not wrong tho), and she says it’s not merely a clone, but rather something closer to Rain’s skill. Basically, a comparative statement.

And we already know that each body is treated as a separate existence, so if the main body dies, the separate body simply takes its place. Nowhere was it stated that the original erased body regenerates (you’re giving them High-Godly Regeneration, which is about restoring all aspects of oneself from complete erasure. So yeah). Even Michael’s "revival" can be explained by the Parallel Existence taking over as the main body afterward.

There is no true “main body” in Parallel Existence because they are all real. Every body is treated as the real Velgrynd.

The destroyed bodies can still return afterward through regeneration/revival as long as another Parallel Existence remains. That’s literally why I brought up the demon battlefield part from the scans.

Also, Velgrynd herself later confirms Testarossa’s assumption during her conversation with Carrera. She not only refers to them as real existences, but also directly brings up regeneration.

So my point was never “PE works exactly like Rain’s skill.” The point is that PE achieves the same survival/recovery function on a superior level because every existence is genuine instead of depending on one main will/body.

We have an example of Velgrynd fighting the demons in scans 2, 3, and 4.

Since they damage her and she remains unharmed afterward, as if nothing happened, the creation of a double body or parallel existence can be interpreted as regeneration (Literally, not even the demons saw him withdraw it and throw it again) because the other Velgrynd that was there left when she departed the parallel existence.

In short, the argument is that it doesn't matter if the main body, which is all of them, is destroyed because those bodies can be returned or regenerated, as in the case of the fight with the demons.

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/256647eac671.png

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/0a59f0589d78.png

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/c6f41cb85179.png

I know it doesn't matter if the bodies are destroyed or not because they're all real, but those destroyed bodies that are real can return/regenerate.

Michael's situation is the same; there's a difference between "Michael Skill," which is his parallel existence in Feldway, and "Michael Manas." He could have revived as "Michael Manas" if it hadn't been for Rimuru. When Rimuru killed him, we saw that only Michael Skill from Feldway remained.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

There is no true “main body” in Parallel Existence because they are all real. Every body is treated as the real Velgrynd.

By 'main body', I mean the original body from which the other body originated

The destroyed bodies can still return afterward through regeneration/revival as long as another Parallel Existence remains. That’s literally why I brought up the demon battlefield part from the scans.

No. The destroyed body does not regenerate or revive. The other one still exists, and you can create a new body through that one, but the destroyed body itself does not come back or regenerate.

Also, Velgrynd herself later confirms Testarossa’s assumption during her conversation with Carrera. She not only refers to them as real existences, but also directly brings up regeneration.

Yeah, that’s why I said she isn’t wrong. She correctly figured out that both separate bodies are real, which as you said, Velgrynd herself confirms.

So my point was never “PE works exactly like Rain’s skill.” The point is that PE achieves the same survival/recovery function on a superior level because every existence is genuine instead of depending on one main will/body.

We have an example of Velgrynd fighting the demons in scans 2, 3, and 4.

Sure, then remove the HGR, as well as Types 3, 4, and 8.

Since they damage her and she remains unharmed afterward, as if nothing happened, the creation of a double body or parallel existence can be interpreted as regeneration (Literally, not even the demons saw him withdraw it and throw it again) because the other Velgrynd that was there left when she departed the parallel existence.

Am I reading something wrong? She canceled the damaged Parallel Existence and then created a new one without any damage. That’s it.

In short, the argument is that it doesn't matter if the main body, which is all of them, is destroyed because those bodies can be returned or regenerated, as in the case of the fight with the demons.

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/256647eac671.png

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/0a59f0589d78.png

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/c6f41cb85179.png

The scan confirms my point.

I know it doesn't matter if the bodies are destroyed or not because they're all real, but those destroyed bodies that are real can return/regenerate.

There’s a difference between regenerating an erased body and creating an entirely new one.

Michael's situation is the same; there's a difference between "Michael Skill," which is his parallel existence in Feldway, and "Michael Manas." He could have revived as "Michael Manas" if it hadn't been for Rimuru. When Rimuru killed him, we saw that only Michael Skill from Feldway remained.

Above.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

No. The destroyed body does not regenerate or revive. The other one still exists, and you can create a new body through that one, but the destroyed body itself does not come back or regenerate.

The fight against the demons confirms it: creating another body in the same place without damage is essentially regeneration, because the previous body is destroyed, so a new one will return.

The other Velgrynd wasn't there; her body was destroyed, nothing remained. She returns to the same place where she was destroyed. "How does she know she was rejected? And what a shame."

Yeah, that’s why I said she isn’t wrong. She correctly figured out that both separate bodies are real, which as you said, Velgrynd herself confirms.

It confirms both things: not only what is real, but also regeneration.

Sure, then remove the HGR, as well as Types 3, 4, and 8.

No ‍

Am I reading something wrong? She canceled the damaged Parallel Existence and then created a new one without any damage. That’s it.

The scan confirms my point.

There’s a difference between regenerating an erased body and creating an entirely new one.

What I said first, regeneration implies creating another body because the previous one was destroyed, in the worst case it is restoration (even though Velgrynd confirmed regeneration), same memories of what was discussed, approval, there is no other Velgrynd nearby to hear everything, besides that Velgrynd was focused elsewhere as if to "share senses" with the one fighting the demons, only one Velgrynd.

Above.

Above, where?

Postscript: If you reply again, I'll do it later; I'm going to be late for university at this rate.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Well, if that doesn’t convince you, I guess I’ll have to play with Michael

First of all, the “Michael” ability (not Manas Michael), which is one of his Parallel Existences, is with Feldway.

Manas Michael can revive himself as long as the Parallel Existence containing the “Michael” ability remains within Feldway, regardless of the situation.

It’s basically Type 3, 4, and 8 Immortality, since the wiki already accepts “revival” as Type 3 and 4.

And well, Rimuru didn't let him.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

agreed

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Method 1:
Here we talk about the abilities granted by "Parallel Existence".

Immortality (Types 3, 4 & 8), High-Godly (Conceptual [Type 1] & Information [Type 2]; via Parallel Existence, can revive as long as one parallel existence remains, being superior to Mist, who can regenerate under the same condition)

"Body" here isn't physical but rather the Parallel Existence, the "Separate Body" which are all real.

Is fine. Twilight did say Parallel Existence also allows for "complete regeneration"

「事前に準備しておかねば、この方法以外での完全再生はない。つまりトワイライトよ、貴様もまた不完全
という事なのじゃ!!」

As long as one body remains, they can regenerate the rest.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This is just Acausality Type 3; only they can possess their parallel selves.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

This is just Acausality Type 3; only they can possess their parallel selves.

Yes, but method 2 says it revives him .

But if it were a Acasuality type 3, Michael, he'd still be alive, but he was killed :v.

Furthermore, it's not that he possesses a parallel existence; they are all real. What's strange is this parallel existence of Michael (which is simply "Ability Michael"), which appears to be a device for reviving "Manas Michael" (which is an information being).

And since Rimuru prevented it, only "Michael's ability" remained.

It doesn't make sense to say it revives that Michael if the parallel existence is him .

Also, as Astral said in the last message "complete regeneration," I sent it to be translated into the thread, but it will take a while .

Thank you for your contribution.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yes, but method 2 says it revives him .

But if it were a Acasuality type 3, Michael, he'd still be alive, but he was killed :v.

Furthermore, it's not that he possesses a parallel existence; they are all real. What's strange is this parallel existence of Michael (which is simply "Ability Michael"), which appears to be a device for reviving "Manas Michael" (which is an information being).

And since Rimuru prevented it, only "Michael's ability" remained.

It doesn't make sense to say it revives that Michael if the parallel existence is him .

Also, as Astral said in the last message "complete regeneration," I sent it to be translated into the thread, but it will take a while .

Thank you for your contribution.

If it's him, becoming a parallel version of himself, after he dies, then it would make sense why it's called revival, though it would still be possession.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

If it's him, becoming a parallel version of himself, after he dies, then it would make sense why it's called revival, though it would still be possession.

Would it at least qualify for types 6 and 8? Or no?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Would it at least qualify for types 6 and 8? Or no?

Yeah, Type 6 and 8 make sense.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Yeah, Type 6 and 8 make sense.

Last question, so you agree that Rimuru can nullify his immortality?

To edit the OP and add you.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well, since it's cutting him off, it's not negating those Parallel Existences, it's just negating his ability to switch over to them, so I would say it specifically negates Type 6.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Thank you so much! I'll edit the OP tomorrow; it's late in my country and I have an important exam too.

I'm getting sleepy :v

 

[Community_Gamer]

I'm going to disagree with HGR Negation and the Type 3, 4, and 8 Negation on the basis it hasn't been sufficiently substantiated that PE grants such abilities.

Also isn't it rather dubious that Micheal COULDN'T create another PE but simply choose not after discovering peace inside of Rimuru? I feel like his last words to Feldway corroborates this.

As for the confusion of Velgrynd let me explain.

The Demoness Trio jump her and ultimate significantly damaged her to point that she drops to her knees.

Velgrynd fell to her knees, not immediately aware of what happened to her. Not that she couldn't comprehend it-- she just didn't want to.

Then believing that they had won because Ultima's poison disabling her from moving they turn their attention to the OTHER PE that's performing a ritual at that moment.

"Right, Right! The other separate body is still around. Let's defeat that, too, and let's interrupt that ritual!" Velgrynd, hearing these voices far in the distance, stood up.

So there's currently TWO Velgrynd's present and the one that was inactive is now getting involved. It's this Velgrynd who blitzes the Demoness Trio and the immediately proceeds to disable the still present PE and creates a new one.

So she disabled the damaged Seperate Body and conjured a new one -- and then all the damage was undone. This is the real trick behind Parallel Existence.

So the text clearly says that another Velgrynd was present (and has always been in every instance) when the creation or disabling of PE takes place. The Velgrynd they damaged wasn't even destroyed (which makes because they aren't on her level even after evolution). The only reason the other Velgrynd doing the ritual got involved is because undoing Ultima's would take time and therefore the trio would've interrupted her ritual. That's it.

There's no regeneration or passive/active revive going on here whatsoever.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I'm going to disagree with HGR Negation and the Type 3, 4, and 8 Negation on the basis it hasn't been sufficiently substantiated that PE grants such abilities.

Also isn't it rather dubious that Micheal COULDN'T create another PE but simply choose not after discovering peace inside of Rimuru? I feel like his last words to Feldway corroborates this.

Michael seemed to have two kinds of Parallel Existences, one like Velgrynd who fights Chloe, and another the "Michael Ability" which seemed more like a resurrection device, as Space said, of type 6 and 8.

As for the confusion of Velgrynd let me explain.

The Demoness Trio jump her and ultimate significantly damaged her to point that she drops to her knees.

Then believing that they had won because Ultima's poison disabling her from moving they turn their attention to the OTHER PE that's performing a ritual at that moment.

So there's currently TWO Velgrynd's present and the one that was inactive is now getting involved. It's this Velgrynd who blitzes the Demoness Trio and the immediately proceeds to disable the still present PE and creates a new one.

So the text clearly says that another Velgrynd was present (and has always been in every instance) when the creation or disabling of PE takes place. The Velgrynd they damaged wasn't even destroyed (which makes because they aren't on her level even after evolution). The only reason the other Velgrynd doing the ritual got involved is because undoing Ultima's would take time and therefore the trio would've interrupted her ritual. That's it.

There's no regeneration or passive/active revive going on here whatsoever.

I won't argue this again, but that kneeling Velgrynd is the wounded Velgrynd, not the one from the beginning.

Later, we learn that the original Velgrynd, upon splitting, left her parallel existence to observe and do something with the ritual. She needed to concentrate, being some kind of strange mage, so she couldn't observe the wounded Velgrynd.

This thread also needs editing.

 

[K'rimuru]

If I understand correctly, you want to integrate HGR into users of the "parallel existence" ability, because they are capable of regenerating from other "selves", and those very "selves" possess a type 1 conceptual existence and type 2 information existence ?

(Sorry if I ask a question whose answer seems obvious, it's just that I have a poor understanding of English).

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

If I understand correctly, you want to integrate HGR into users of the "parallel existence" ability, because they are capable of regenerating from other "selves", and those very "selves" possess a type 1 conceptual existence and type 2 information existence ?

(Sorry if I ask a question whose answer seems obvious, it's just that I have a poor understanding of English).

Yes, that was the idea.

But after Space's comment, I'll leave it as he says and only add type 8, because types 6, 9, and acasuality type 3 are already in the profiles.

 

[Random-Helper323]

This Immortality method definitely sounds like Type 6 and Type 8.

That negation sounds like it would only work on that specific method of immortality, since it works by isolating them into a space and therefore from their parallel self, not negating any normal parasitic ability to attach to something that is also in the space, for example. It probably should be noted as part of a BFR technique. So that specific Type 6, not Type 8.

 

[Berga14]

only add type 8, because types 6, 9, and acasuality type 3 are already in the profiles.

not negating any normal parasitic ability to attach to something that is also in the space, for example. It probably should be noted as part of a BFR technique. So that specific Type 6,

negates Type 6.

Type 6 negation is also already accepted. So, the only thing left is type 8. Considering that this crt became much smaller compared with its start, i think it's a good moment to reorganize the entire imaginary space list of abilities.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Type 6 negation is also already accepted. So, the only thing left is type 8. Considering that this crt became much smaller compared with its start, i think it's a good moment to reorganize the entire imaginary space list of abilities.

Okay, I guess since it's only type 8, two are enough?

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Well, since it's cutting him off, it's not negating those Parallel Existences, it's just negating his ability to switch over to them, so I would say it specifically negates Type 6.

This Immortality method definitely sounds like Type 6 and Type 8.

That negation sounds like it would only work on that specific method of immortality, since it works by isolating them into a space and therefore from their parallel self, not negating any normal parasitic ability to attach to something that is also in the space, for example. It probably should be noted as part of a BFR technique. So that specific Type 6, not Type 8.

Excuse me, can this thread be closed with two approvals?

Given that there are only two types of immortality, type 6 and 8?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This Immortality method definitely sounds like Type 6 and Type 8.

That negation sounds like it would only work on that specific method of immortality, since it works by isolating them into a space and therefore from their parallel self, not negating any normal parasitic ability to attach to something that is also in the space, for example. It probably should be noted as part of a BFR technique. So that specific Type 6, not Type 8.

Yeah, I agree.

Excuse me, can this thread be closed with two approvals?

Sure