BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Mommyleona]

He send Ywach flying 3900km and moved just as fast himself with Shunpo.

This was brought up in the thread lol, 1000ri is used very often as just "long distance" in japanese. Also this is only the distance Yhwach will be flying for, what proves that Yhwach moved all this distance? All ichibei did was catch up to the speed of the slap

Also again, calc stacking. This isnt a stated speed

There's none, a contradiction would be having the clock with a different time or the time not matching the anime.

1. This was about anime portraying Yhwach's way up as longer than the manga, which YES is a contradiction
2. The clock literally DOESNT exist in the anime, so it doesnt match the manga
3. The time doesnt match

(it isn't, its day when the invasion starts, and it's still day when ichigo lands)

 

[Stronk1994]

Wasn't going to comment but I can't believe people are letting them get away with such clearly incorrect recalculations. The new SKP - Seireitei Distance: being recalculated to a distance of 5856 km. Grimmjow in his first fight with Ichigo in base created a sonic boom with his movement. Giving EoS Ichigo this absolute lowball travel speed moving at that speed of sound for 33,300 seconds puts the SKP - Seireitei distance at: 11,422 km, more than twice whatever toilet paper calculation they came up with.
"He was falling"
Right...thats why Tenjiro mentioned it would take a week with shunpo, yet somehow Ichigo made it there 18x faster by simply doing nothing?
Basically his entire argument for the verse speed downgrade relies on taking your brain out of your head, throwing it in the trash, and blindly believing that somehow the Shinigami and Quincy and hollows are moving slower than the average my hero academia student, that somehow Bleach characters can't even travel at the speed of sound in a shonen in 2026.

Edit: The more you think about it the more insulting it gets. They assume it took Ichigo a week to get to the bottom in their calc, this is a narrative contradiction. Yhwach's power was returning in a matter of hours because of the prophecy, so how could it possibly have taken Ichigo a week to get to the bottom.

That was issue 2, in the dirt.

Issue 1 was debunked on page 1450 of this thread.

Issue 3 isn't even an issue, saying things like "10% of the way to the sun". Huh interesting, where was it ever stated the distance of the soul society to the sun? Exactly, no where. Dude is making downgrades using "lack of information" as a reasoning while making changes that also assume information. The soul society is an otherworldly realm, no where is the distance of stellar objects stated, and no where does it say the soul society has to follow the exact same mechanics of the world of the living. There is literally no contradiction in SKP - Seireitei distance being several millions of km long, did we forget its the afterlife or..?

Issue 4 also again not an issue, its an argument made from ignorance. Gremmy can imagine effects onto people, using Gremmy's ability to imagine outer space's effects onto Kenpachi is more believable and takes less guesswork than assuming every shinigami cannot survive in space when we have 1) never seen them walk in outer space 2) Have seen them fine in realms that have nothing at all like the garganta 3) Survived being submerged for hours in Tenjiro's Blood pool 4)Assuming every shinigami cannot survive in space is ignoring the fundamentals of Kishi and Reishi conversion. Also, they breath reishi not air.

Issue 5 again not an issue and actually screams desperation. There is no actual argument outlined, they just present a bunch of scans and assert a contradiction without giving any speed or calculation to their evidence. I have nothing to go off to even debunk here but if I assumed their argument was that these scans contradict Ichigo's time to reach the bottom, you have to remember we're talking about travel speed, what is the issue with some objects falling faster than ichigos travel speed? Where is the contradiction? Then the pieces of Lille reaching the bottom quickly, Lille is light, assuming the previous lowball of SKP -Seireitei distance of 11,422km, Lille would reach the bottom in 0.038 seconds completely consistent and just goes to show how much of a non issue this is.

Issue 6 he just asserts the time frame is non canon because the anime left it out. Do I need to say anything here?


How about issue 0, why is he assuming the realms are planets in the first place when every source explicitly says they're not planets? His entire foundation for the speed downgrade is based on the idea that these distances don't make sense on a planet.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

but what about the clouds and atmospheric pressure!!!?

 

[Stronk1994]

but what about the clouds and atmospheric pressure!!!?

The clouds and Ichibei's Senri Tsutensho that sends someone flying 4,000 km away alone disproves the entire downgrade. It destroys both the distance and timeframe argument for the new calc at once because if Ichigo took a week and it was a distance of 5856 km, when Ichibei slapped Yhwach downward he should've basically shot right into the ground or close to yet the background barely changes.

The fact it's 2026 and this feat still hasn't been properly calculated for the Bleach profiles says enough about the Bleach team on here. 4,000km distance statement and then 1 shunpo to cover it is more than 99% of verses ever get for speed but somehow we can't figure out how fast top tiers are both reaction and movement speed? Give me a break.

And before someone says Ichibei didn't wait the entire distance to shunpo to him, I already got you covered homies, I've been calculated this. Ichibei shunpo'd 3 seconds after slapping, Yhwach traveled for a total of 21 seconds, 21/3 = 7 , distance traveled 571.43 km. Which would still put the distance at 95,928 km, well above the accepted calc. Again this is just to show how far from reality that accepted distance was with even the lowest of lowballs you get much higher results.

Here's a visual for just how far 4,000 km is . The top tiers can cross this in a single shunpo but I'm to believe 5856 km is a distance that takes a week to cross?

 

[Mommyleona]

snip

Bro hasnt commented in 11 years on this site

 

[Stronk1994]

This was brought up in the thread lol, 1000ri is used very often as just "long distance" in japanese. Also this is only the distance Yhwach will be flying for, what proves that Yhwach moved all this distance? All ichibei did was catch up to the speed of the slap

Also again, calc stacking. This isnt a stated speed

0:15

Brotha you got cooked, your entire downgrade is rebutted.

 

[Mommyleona]

Grimmjow in his first fight with Ichigo in base created a sonic boom with his movement

Cool, not a speed statement, cant be used

rest of your response is pretty useless, the 50km wasnt even accepted, quit complaining already

 

[Stronk1994]

Cool, not a speed statement, cant be used

rest of your response is pretty useless, the 50km wasnt even accepted, quit complaining already

Travel speed creating a sonic boom can't be used , right..
So you need a statement right? Are you allergic to the databooks that say cero is a light or..?

 

[Mommyleona]

So you need a statement right? Are you allergic to the databooks that say cero is a light or..?

Go accept Ceros as light speed

 

[Stronk1994]

Go accept Ceros as light speed

So let me get this straight, we can't use Ichibei because its not a speed statement but a distance statement, even though we can clearly calculate how long Yhwach flew for and when Ichibei shunpo'd to him.

So only statements allowed. But when there's clearly a statement, its not accepted because...reasons? So you don't want a statement, you want something more thats not being clarified. I'ts interesting how there's clearly no balance for evidence, you're asking basically for the impossible while accepting nothing yet your arguments have no source or evidence that supports it and is narratively and visually contradicted by simply watching the anime. The anime, which you guys claim is the new canon but ignore something as obvious as Ichibei?

 

[SilentBob34]

@Mommyleona trying to hold his poop in. Upset people argue against him

 

[Mommyleona]

So let me get this straight, we can't use Ichibei because its not a speed statement but a distance statement, even though we can clearly calculate how long Yhwach flew for and when Ichibei shunpo'd to him.

Those are the rules yes, this is a calc, using a value from it is calc stacking (ignoring all other issues). I dont make the rules, Im not even a mod. If you have a problem with wiki standards, make a staff thread

But when there's clearly a statement, its not accepted because...reasons?

I just told you, go accept ceros as light speed if you want, that's what crts are for, currently ceros are not light speed, have been rejected to be as such for years pretty sure

I'ts interesting how there's clearly no balance for evidence, you're asking basically for the impossible while accepting nothing yet your arguments have no source or evidence that supports it

visually contradicted by simply watching the anime

Visually the distance doesnt go above 50km lol

 

[SilentBob34]

So let me get this straight, we can't use Ichibei because its not a speed statement but a distance statement, even though we can clearly calculate how long Yhwach flew for and when Ichibei shunpo'd to him.

So only statements allowed. But when there's clearly a statement, its not accepted because...reasons? So you don't want a statement, you want something more thats not being clarified. I'ts interesting how there's clearly no balance for evidence, you're asking basically for the impossible while accepting nothing yet your arguments have no source or evidence that supports it and is narratively and visually contradicted by simply watching the anime. The anime, which you guys claim is the new canon but ignore something as obvious as Ichibei?

Dude Ichigo had to be crawling on his hand and knees for a 3.9 km las Noches to be accepted. But that’s how staff is. They call in staff to talk that dont know anything about Bleach. Bleach admins that have been waiting for a moment to downgrade Bleach use it to their advantage and other staff just follows along damage is a prime example

 

[Stronk1994]

Dude Ichigo had to be crawling on his hand and knees for a 3.9 km las Noches to be accepted. But that’s how staff is. They call in staff to talk that dont know anything about Bleach. Bleach admins that have been waiting for a moment to downgrade Bleach use it to their advantage and other staff just follows along damage is a prime example

After doing a bit more research I can see why this site gets all the scrutiny it does. All these past recalcs have been is just the same 2-3 people opening a thread, making a claim, and then the same people quickly go to each thread and say I agree, and then tag an admin to rush the changes.

Like I assumed the Bleach team or whoever on this site clearly had a dislike for Bleach but to dig into the forums and see it's basically a handful of cringe guys manipulating profile changes, its worse than I thought.

 

[ichimojii]

This was brought up in the thread lol, 1000ri is used very often as just "long distance" in japanese. Also this is only the distance Yhwach will be flying for, what proves that Yhwach moved all this distance? All ichibei did was catch up to the speed of the slap

Also again, calc stacking. This isnt a stated speed

1. This was about anime portraying Yhwach's way up as longer than the manga, which YES is a contradiction
2. The clock literally DOESNT exist in the anime, so it doesnt match the manga
3. The time doesnt match

You and other people in that thread were being blantenly dishonest saying the distance was 50 to 80km. Just with a glance you can see it's way beyond that. Ichibei's city alone had mountain ranges on them. The Royal Palace can fit warhelt on it and warhelt is comparable to the serierite in size which 1000+km. Just looking the scene where yhwach created a massive asuwhlen which dwafts the Royal Palace you can get somewhere around 10,000km. This is just beyond the last layer of clouds btw.

As far travel speed goes base starrk move fte to ichigo and kenpachi. He instantly move outside their reiatsu perception and sight. They couldn't sense him or ohrimie. This means he moved dozens of KM instantly to their perception. Ichigo moving aizen outside KKT ,ichigo and yhwach zipping across the Royal Palace moving 100s of KM instantly

 

[SilentBob34]

You and other people in that thread were being blantenly dishonest saying the distance was 50 to 80km. Just with a glance you can see it's way beyond that. Ichibei's city alone had mountain ranges on them. The Royal Palace can fit warhelt on it and warhelt is comparable to the serierite in size which 1000+km. Just looking the scene where yhwach created a massive asuwhlen which dwafts the Royal Palace you can get somewhere around 10,000km. This just layer of clouds btw.

As far travel speed goes base starrk move fte to ichigo and kenpachi. He instantly move outside their reiatsu perception and sight. They couldn't sense him or ohrimie. This means he moved dozens of KM instantly to their perception. Ichigo moving aizen outside KKT ,ichigo and yhwach zipping across the Royal Palace moving 100s of KM instantly

I don’t doubt that and I don’t doubt mommy’s either. But 5.8 km? Cmon. I’ve already given proof that TS Ichigo should Max out at supersonic but even @Mommyleona doesn’t accept that because even they know it’s bullshit

 

[SilentBob34]

Those are the rules yes, this is a calc, using a value from it is calc stacking (ignoring all other issues). I dont make the rules, Im not even a mod. If you have a problem with wiki standards, make a staff thread

I just told you, go accept ceros as light speed if you want, that's what crts are for, currently ceros are not light speed, have been rejected to be as such for years pretty sure



Visually the distance doesnt go above 50km lol

So you’re still in favor of the SK palace be a couple miles above the Seireitei. You just opted out because you got voted out. ******* sad tbh.


Still waiting for how Ichigo took 12 hours to travel 50km. Please provide that you hypocrite

 

[Arkenis]

After doing a bit more research I can see why this site gets all the scrutiny it does. All these past recalcs have been is just the same 2-3 people opening a thread, making a claim, and then the same people quickly go to each thread and say I agree, and then tag an admin to rush the changes.

Like I assumed the Bleach team or whoever on this site clearly had a dislike for Bleach but to dig into the forums and see it's basically a handful of cringe guys manipulating profile changes, its worse than I thought.

The site can be decent when its not the HST lmao. People gets their favorite verse downgraded due to something and then argue "but the HST do xyz".

 

[PizzaDante67]

Already answered the other to Luck himself but for the CRT part, it's literally no one's fault that basically all calcs for speed are just wrong. You can't "fix the speed rating" while keeping the calculations as they were because guess what, they were wrong. I'm not trying to critique anyone here, but the CRTs aren't an issue and do not change the "fixing speed rating" idea, it just fixes it more by removing the wanked calcs. The multipliers and in-verse chainscale isn't changing just because the value of the calc is now "X" times smaller.

You might wanna tell that to Nova now. Those crt‘s sure did make alot of things harder for him and have given him more work, if he still decides to fix the speed which i doubt.

But hey, those crt‘s arent an issue so why is he even complaining, right?

 

[Specterxxxx]

In ep 21 of tybw, ichigo took 6 seconds to traverse the radius of the seretei, we can get his speed and calc the distance to the royal palace and easily get a distance that isnt based on calc staking and relies on fully on feats. The ichibei and shunsui example meant to establish that the speed of ichigo in your calc was incredibly ridiculous, we are not saying yall should the speeds from the example to calc lol.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I don’t doubt that and I don’t doubt mommy’s either. But 5.8 km? Cmon. I’ve already given proof that TS Ichigo should Max out at supersonic but even @Mommyleona doesn’t accept that because even they know it’s bullshit

What they think doesn't matter, it would still be changed regardless.

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Did the Soul King create the space time of the 3 worlds or just separated the Primordial Sea into 3 separate space time ? Also, how do they translate to speed ? I know that the former range from MFTL+ to Immeasurable speed, but what about the latter ?

 

[DeathberrySama]

Did the Soul King create the space time of the 3 worlds or just separated the Primordial Sea into 3 separate space time ? Also, how do they translate to speed ? I know that the former range from MFTL+ to Immeasurable speed, but what about the latter ?

There's not enough evidence to assert he created the space time of the 3 realms. However, you could argue he created the Garganta which should function as a space time. I'm not really sure any "speed" here is quantifiable or even applicable to the character's personal stats.

 

[AppleLord]

 

[Hasch]

This was brought up in the thread lol, 1000ri is used very often as just "long distance" in japanese. Also this is only the distance Yhwach will be flying for, what proves that Yhwach moved all this distance? All ichibei did was catch up to the speed of the slap

It's a saying in modern times because Japan uses the metric system, but Bleach still uses the old Ri measurement system, also Ichibei's power is to literally apply the meaning of words so he means exactly what he says.

1. This was about anime portraying Yhwach's way up as longer than the manga, which YES is a contradiction
2. The clock literally DOESNT exist in the anime, so it doesnt match the manga
3. The time doesnt match

The time does match, and the clock not being shown just mean the manga adds more context as a secondary source should do.

Also again, calc stacking. This isnt a stated speed

But if Ywach was flying 5999 seconds to cover 3900km that still makes the distance to the Seireitei for 12hs 28000km

The anime shows 22 seconds which makes Ichibei and Ywach's shunpo over mach 500

 

[Mommyleona]

It's a saying in modern times because Japan uses the metric system, but Bleach still uses the old Ri measurement system, also Ichibei's power is to literally apply the meaning of words so he means exactly what he says.

Ignored the second part

The time does match

-Proceeds to not elaborate in any way

But if Ywach was flying 5999 seconds to cover 3900km that still makes the distance to the Seireitei for 12hs 28000km

 

[Hasch]

Ignored the second part

How would it be calc stacking?

Rules​

Only parameters that can't change between calculations can be re-purposed. To provide a few examples:

• Pixel scaling over several steps is permitted, as long as the size of the scaled objects usually stays constant.
• Using the calculated speed of a projectile to calculate the speed of a character dodging said projectile on the very same occasion is usually permitted, as long as the projectile wouldn't have changed its speed mid-flight.
• Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations.
• Multipliers can be used under the conditions outlined on the multiplier page.

Using Stated Speeds​

We don't generally consider using stated speeds (even somewhat unclear ones, such as a character moving while a timer is shown) in other calculations to be calc stacking, under a few conditions:

• If characters are known or implied to not be moving at their top speed in the scene being calculated, an earlier stated speed is unusable unless the stated speed was for them holding back to a similar or greater extent.
• While we do allow stated speeds to be used across one step of scaling (i.e., if Character B is faster than Character A, a stated speed for Character A can be used in calculations for Character B), we don't allow them to be used across multiple, due to concerns with reliability.
• Care must be taken to only use stated speeds that are relevant to a calculation. A character's stated running speed cannot be used to calculate someone moving faster than they can react, as that requires a conversion between the two, and thus, a calculation. Similarly, a character's stated reaction speed, or a timeframe they can act within, cannot be used to calculate a character running faster than them, for the same reason.

 

[AppleLord]

Proposal - Almighty: Limited Dream Manipulation (Jugram is able to send visions of alternative future to Yhwach as a dream.)

In the anime, Yhwach sends visions of Reio to Ichigo.

 

[Mommyleona]

How would it be calc stacking?

First line
"Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats."

 

[Hasch]

First line
"Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats."

It's a stated distance over time meaning a stated speed, you wouldn't say someone being said to be 170cm being called 1,70m to compare him to a house is calc stacking because you divided the stated number by 100.

Same as how pixel scalling to then calc destructive capacity isn't calc stacking.

 

[Mommyleona]

It's a stated distance and time meaning a stated speed.

what. that's not how it works

 

[Hasch]

what. that's not how it works

Speed is literally distance over time.

 

[Mommyleona]

Speed is literally distance over time.

yeah but to find it, you need a calculation

 

[Hasch]

yeah but to find it, you need a calculation

So would it be calc stacking to use the diameter of the Juureichi because the manga only stated it's radius?

 

[Mommyleona]

So would it be calc stacking to use the diameter of the Juureichi because the manga only stated it's radius?

Juureichi?

 

[Hasch]

Juureichi?

Yeah.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Damn a teaser came out, and i don't even see a single post about it in this thread. This thread might be really washed ngl.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

There wasn't much in the new trailer.

 

[Crobatman44]

Damn a teaser came out, and i don't even see a single post about it in this thread. This thread might be really washed ngl.

Mostly kept my talks about in discord or in IRL tbh.
Was hyped to see Askin even if half of it was him getting beat up.
Gotta love how Uryu vs Jugram had so little in the Mamga that every time we get teases of it it's always completly new,also new addition to Jugram's darkness manipulation might be coming in the future?
So that's exciting even if it's just a small change.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Mostly kept my talks about in discord or in IRL tbh.
Was hyped to see Askin even if half of it was him getting beat up.
Gotta love how Uryu vs Jugram had so little in the Mamga that every time we get teases of it it's always completly new,also new addition to Jugram's darkness manipulation might be coming in the future?
So that's exciting even if it's just a small change.

I think cour 4 might also expand on giving ichigo fate manip with bankai, i just hope my goat stops being just a stat merchant lol