(Accepted) Tensura - More details to The Abyss

[Community_Gamer]

Everything seems to check out, but that is to be expected with prediscussed CRTs these days.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Day 2, waiting for a staff member to comment .

Bump.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Day 2, waiting for a staff member to comment .

Bump.

You can't bump if the last post wasn't 12 hours ago :d

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

You can't bump if the last post wasn't 12 hours ago :d

Mizuki's message was 12 hours ago, CommunityGamer beat me to it for a moment when I was already writing .

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

From what I understand, you're arguing that information has two sides, one is existence and the other is nonexistence.

Abyss erasing information entirely means it's neithr.

If so, it makes sense to me.

---

@Elizhaa @KingTempest @Random-Helper323 @SomebodyData @DarkDragonMedeus I was asked to ping you all. Your input would be appreciated.

 

[Elizhaa]

it seems like it could make sense.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Badump

 

[Robo432343]

@Reiner04

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

@Reiner04

 

[Explosion-Proximity]

I have come to the conclusion that All that has been stated is agreed upon by me

DISSAPPEARS

 

[AlexSamDen]

Bump

 

[SomebodyData]

The propositions make sense to me, agreed.

 

[Ultimuru]

 

[Mido02]

A smooth demon

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

A smooth demon

Doing a smooth bump

 

[Mido02]

Doing a smooth bump

Waiting for a smooth mod to give a smooth approve

 

[AlexSamDen]

Bump

 

[MetaChronos]

Bump

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

I didn't agree with it, did I? Anyway, the scan about the void erasing information within information particles, the "void" here refers to Void Collapse, not the abyss .

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I didn't agree with it, did I? Anyway, the scan about the void erasing information within information particles, the "void" here refers to Void Collapse, not the abyss .

Care to elaborate why Moss understood it’s nature even though Moss doesn’t even know that Void Collapse exist?

“Moss, who had reached the number-two spot in Blanc's force at one point, was fully aware of the terrifying nature of this ability.“

Anyways I agree to the CRT

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Care to elaborate why Moss understood it’s nature even though Moss doesn’t even know that Void Collapse exist?

Anyways I agree to the CRT

The part you quoted is from here.

However, Testarossa had obtained the ultimate skill Belial, Lord of the Underworld.
That was the spark allowing her to perfectly control this dangerously powerful ability.
The synergistic effect was beyond imagination, granting Testarossa an absolute advantage that made her enemies seem pitiful by comparison. Moss, who had reached the number-two spot in Blanc’s force at one point, was fully aware of the terrifying nature of this ability. Life cannot exist in Hell; even the soul is destroyed and turned into energy. It was a true void of nothingness, a Hell only the higher spiritual life-forms could endure…and once you got down to the depths, even those beings couldn’t survive.
That was exactly the sort of realm Testarossa could summon with Nihilistic World.

It’s from much earlier than the scan I’m referring to, which is this:

“How does it feel to taste true destruction?”
“Interesting. I think I understand a little of what you did. Y ou left the void energy that you used to find me untouched, didn’t you?”
“That’s right.”
“Impressive. So casually keeping it in place while fighting me.”
Twilight was sincere with his praise. V oid energy was the ultimate in destructive force. Naturally blending it into the ice storm and maintaining it in a harmless state was, his common sense told him, a waste of time. It consumed too much energy—energy that’d be much more useful diverted into an attack. And why hide all that until the very moment of attack?
Twilight couldn’t figure it out. That was why he had overlooked it, but he still felt no sense of real danger. Certainly, if he had been hit by the void energy, his current body, “soul” included, would have been annihilated—but that didn’t mean anything for Twilight, who could completely regenerate himself at the drop of a hat.
This was what complete immortality was. This was why he was invincible. But this was also where the miscalculation occurred.
“I guess you don’t understand,” Testarossa muttered, exasperated.
“…?”
“My void energy was not summoned from Hell.”

“What?”
Twilight gave Testarossa a “what are you talking about?” look. There she stood, smiling with glee like the absolute monarch she was.
“This power is proof that he is still alive. Beyond the door deep within my chest, I felt it—the breath of life.”
“What does any of that—?”
“I wanted to sense more of it, but it seems it’s time to part ways.”
Testarossa was cautious. She’d never try anything beyond her capabilities the way Zegion would. Even if she attempted to, she knew it wouldn’t work…and yet going not quite all the way would be enough of a threat.
Her ultimate skill Belial, Lord of the Underworld was the one power closer to death than any other. One of its skills, called World of the Dead, gave her the power to control the hellfire known as void energy. This was how she safely harnessed Void Collapse, a skill she borrowed from Rimuru, as long as she kept it within her own capacity.
Combining it with her own Nihilistic World let her rule over a world of her own—an extremely dangerous one.
The thing void energy fed on was data particles—to be more precise, it erased the information written in these particles. No command has any meaning at all if it cannot be communicated. Even if all the requisite information is synchronized instantly between giver and receiver across time and space, if the “data particles” the information is written into are interfered with…

The narrator was referring to the void of the abyss summoned by Nihility World in the first scan, while in the second, it shifted to Void Collapse. Well, I partially blame OTL for not using any distinguishable term for the two

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

The part you quoted is from here.

It’s from much earlier than the scan I’m referring to, which is this:

The narrator was referring to the void of the abyss summoned by Nihility World in the first scan, while in the second, it shifted to Void Collapse. Well, I partially blame OTL for not using any distinguishable term for the two

It feels like this objection of yours already missed the point of the CRT. The scan even says that Testarossa safely harnesses Rimuru's Void Collapse by keeping it 'within her own capacity,' which she achieves by combining it with her Nihilistic World. Nihilistic World is described as a power that manifest 'the depths of Hell [the Abyss] in this world.' The upgrade here doesn't care about where the raw void energy came from. It's the fact that the Abyss/Depths is strong enough to contain Void Collapse; energy that destroys information particles and scrambles logical thought. This is just how the void works in the Abyss, where Testarossa got her energy from.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

It feels like this objection of yours already missed the point of the CRT. The scan even says that Testarossa safely harnesses Rimuru's Void Collapse by keeping it 'within her own capacity,' which she achieves by combining it with her Nihilistic World. Nihilistic World is described as a power that manifest 'the depths of Hell [the Abyss] in this world.' The upgrade here doesn't care about where the raw void energy came from. It's the fact that the Abyss/Depths is strong enough to contain Void Collapse; energy that destroys information particles and scrambles logical thought. This is just how the void works in the Abyss, where Testarossa got her energy from.

No, the abyss isn’t strong enough to do what you said. Nihility World is the ability that summons the void of the abyss, but the void she was using was not from Hell (the abyss), it was Void Collapse combined with Nihility World. She used Void Collapse instead of the abyssal void within Nihility World, that’s what the scan suggests.

And the 'within her own capacity' part is, well, referring to her capacity to handle and control Void Collapse, that’s it.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

No, the abyss isn’t strong enough to do what you said. Nihility World is the ability that summons the void of the abyss, but the void she was using was not from Hell (the abyss), it was Void Collapse combined with Nihility World. She used Void Collapse instead of the abyssal void within Nihility World, that’s what the scan suggests.

And the 'within her own capacity' part is, well, referring to her capacity to handle and control Void Collapse, that’s it.

The text does not say she 'swapped' or replaced anything - it says she is combining them.You can't separate Void Collapse from Nihilistic World when the scan states that combining them is the exact mechanism that lets her rule over this world and keep the energy within her capacity. Since Nihilistic World literally manifests the Abyss, it means the Abyssal framework is actively functioning as the containment system to stabilize and handle that level of information erasure. If the Abyss framework is required to process and hold that energy without collapsing, then the cosmology structurally scales to it. Your argument that she's just ignoring the Abyss entirely flat-out contradicts the word 'Combining' in the scan. If Testarossa only using Void Collapse then what’s the point of her using Belial as Belial ability are allowing the user to manifest the Abyss of Hell summoning its Nihility.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Your argument that she's just ignoring the Abyss entirely flat-out contradicts the word 'Combining' in the scan. If Testarossa only using Void Collapse then what’s the point of her using Belial as Belial ability are allowing the user to manifest the Abyss of Hell summoning its Nihility.

Her ultimate skill Belial, Lord of the Underworld was the one power closer to death than any other. One of its skills, called World of the Dead, gave her the power to control the hellfire known as void energy. This was how she safely harnessed Void Collapse, a skill she borrowed from Rimuru, as long as she kept it within her own capacity.

It allows him to control the void energy, which is why he was able to control Void Collapse.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I didn't agree with it, did I? Anyway, the scan about the void erasing information within information particles, the "void" here refers to Void Collapse, not the abyss .

Nothing in the statement "the void feeds on information particles" says its talking about only void collapse. TBF if it meant that, it should have said "void collapse feeds on", not Void as a general term.

Plus given this:

Her ultimate skill Belial, Lord of the Underworld was the one power closer to death than any other. One of its skills, called World of the Dead, gave her the power to control the hellfire known as void energy. This was how she safely harnessed Void Collapse, a skill she borrowed from Rimuru, as long as she kept it within her own capacity.

Combining it with her own Nihilistic World let her rule over a world of her own—an extremely dangerous one.

The thing void energy fed on was data particles—to be more precise, it erased the information written in these particles. No command has any meaning at all if it cannot be communicated. Even if all the requisite information is synchronized instantly between giver and receiver across time and space, if the “data particles” the information is written into are interfered with…

So we quite literally know this void energy refers to hellfire.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

So we quite literally know this void energy refers to hellfire.

Void Collapse was also referred to as Void Energy just a bit above the passage btw.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Void Collapse was also referred to as Void Energy just a bit above the passage btw.

That's specifically "my void energy", not void energy in general. There's no indicator in the raws that specifically mention "this/that void energy". It's a general statement. The fact that it's referred to as Hellfire in the closer context backs that up.

Plus I'm fairly sure we got a translator to confirm that it's a general statement as well, no?

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

That's specifically "my void energy", not void energy in general. There's no indicator in the raws that specifically mention "this/that void energy". It's a general statement.
Plus I'm fairly sure we got a translator to confirm that it's a general statement as well, no?

Don't know, but considering the later statement:

“I guess you don’t understand,” Testarossa muttered, exasperated.
“…?”
“My void energy was not summoned from Hell.”

“What?”
Twilight gave Testarossa a “what are you talking about?” look. There she stood, smiling with glee like the absolute monarch she was.
“This power is proof that he is still alive. Beyond the door deep within my chest, I felt it—the breath of life.”
“What does any of that—?”
“I wanted to sense more of it, but it seems it’s time to part ways.”
Testarossa was cautious. She’d never try anything beyond her capabilities the way Zegion would. Even if she attempted to, she knew it wouldn’t work…and yet going not quite all the way would be enough of a threat.
Her ultimate skill Belial, Lord of the Underworld was the one power closer to death than any other. One of its skills, called World of the Dead, gave her the power to control the hellfire known as void energy. This was how she safely harnessed V oid Collapse, a skill she borrowed from Rimuru, as long as she kept it within her own capacity.
Combining it with her own Nihilistic World let her rule over a world of her own—an extremely dangerous one.
The thing void energy fed on was data particles—to be more precise, it erased the information written in these particles. No command has any meaning at all if it cannot be communicated. Even if all the requisite information is synchronized instantly between giver and receiver across time and space, if the “data particles” the information is written into are interfered with… “Wait… My heart core isn’t responding…,” Twilight managed.
“Of course not. I’ve put up with you for a long while, but I’m tired of playing with you. So it’s time to end this.”
With those words, Testarossa’s thoughts left Twilight’s mind. He was all alone again.
What? Are you saying this white darkness is all void energy? That’s ridiculous!

There’s no way that’s true…!

Twilight already knew about Void Energy. Testa said her Void Energy wasn’t from Hell, and later the narrator mentioned Void Collapse before continuing with Void Energy erasing information. Then Twilight’s heart core stopped responding, which surprised him, something that shouldn’t have happened if normal Void Energy could already do that. He later questioned, or rather was shocked, as if the entire white space itself was Void Energy (of course, the Void Energy here shouldn’t be referring to Hell’s Void, since Testa had already told him it wasn’t from Hell).

 

[Mizuki67]

Twilight already knew about Void Energy. Testa said her Void Energy wasn’t from Hell, and later the narrator mentioned Void Collapse before continuing with Void Energy erasing information. Then Twilight’s heart core stopped responding, which surprised him, something that shouldn’t have happened if normal Void Energy could already do that. He later questioned, or rather was shocked, as if the entire white space itself was Void Energy (of course, the Void Energy here shouldn’t be referring to Hell’s Void, since Testa had already told him it wasn’t from Hell).

this changes nothing imo. Users of void collapse would still get NEP

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

this changes nothing imo. Users of void collapse would still get NEP 2

It would actually change things, such as Degrual and those above him no longer getting NEP 2 erasure, and by contrast, Veldora's Probability Manipulation would no longer be NEP 2 (3) in nature, and Void Collapse would lose the layer. Then, Primordials in general would lose NEP Type 2 Void Manipulation.

 

[Mizuki67]

It would actually change things, such as Degrual and those above him no longer getting NEP 2 erasure, and by contrast, Veldora's Probability Manipulation would no longer be NEP 2 (3) in nature, and Void Collapse would lose the layer. Then, Primordials in general would lose NEP Type 2 Void Manipulation.

no it does not the main argument is void being fundamentally different from existence and non existence. Void Collapse is exactly that

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Don't know, but considering the later statement:

Twilight already knew about Void Energy. Testa said her Void Energy wasn’t from Hell, and later the narrator mentioned Void Collapse before continuing with Void Energy erasing information. Then Twilight’s heart core stopped responding, which surprised him, something that shouldn’t have happened if normal Void Energy could already do that. He later questioned, or rather was shocked, as if the entire white space itself was Void Energy (of course, the Void Energy here shouldn’t be referring to Hell’s Void, since Testa had already told him it wasn’t from Hell).

That's where we draw a line between different parts of the narrative. In the bottom and top, it's talking about testa's void energy, which is not from hell. In the middle section, it's talking about Hellfire, which is from hell.

There's just no denying the Hellfire part. Are we really gonna say hellfire ain't hellfire?\.^./

---

Hmm. I think I'll have to use another method here.

Basically what testa does is "summon" void not from hell but from void collapse directly. Hellfire could possibly also be referring to the baseline hell's energy, and the void energy that feeds on data particles would be the abyss one.

Cuz Void collapse is, well, its true essence is Chaos, but it's also like a nuclear reactor (fission) that Testa used, and the offshoot of this reaction process between Chaos is what we call "Void energy":

原子炉から核融合炉に変わった感じ？ と聞いたら、《違う》と、真顔っぽい雰囲気で断言されたよね。

Which is why this "Nihility" isn't void collapse, it's just not summoned from hell, but the nature shouldn't be different:

So then, work starts immediately. First, replacing Testarossa’s and Guy’s Nihility, I converted my Dragon Spirit Haki into Nihility Collapse. If I nullify Velzard’s attack with this canceling effect, then the rest will be easy.
Source

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

This would cause problems because Guy copied Tessta's Nihilistic World, giving him access to Void Collapse (which I don't think anyone would agree with).

The only void energy he could obtain would be from the abyss of Hell, but Guy copies abilities and their properties when he analyzes and copies them.

He saw how he erased the information until he discovered where Twilight was inside Velzard. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

I would consider that void energy a general resource.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

no it does not the main argument is void being fundamentally different from existence and non existence. Void Collapse is exactly that

I am talking about abyss

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

This would cause problems because Guy copied Tessta's Nihilistic World, giving him access to Void Collapse (which I don't think anyone would agree with).

The only void energy he could obtain would be from the abyss of Hell, but Guy copies abilities and their properties when he analyzes and copies them.

He saw how he erased the information until he discovered where Twilight was inside Velzard. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

I would consider that void energy a general resource.

Guy copied Nihility World, so he would only be able to use the Abyss Void, not Void Collapse, since that was never supposed to be its original authority. Besides, the source is still Rimuru, which Guy lacks.
Anyway... you brought up a good point. I actually agree with this, so yeah, Alex, I guess you should add the scan or replace it, and sorry for the waste of time.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This would cause problems because Guy copied Tessta's Nihilistic World, giving him access to Void Collapse (which I don't think anyone would agree with).

The only void energy he could obtain would be from the abyss of Hell, but Guy copies abilities and their properties when he analyzes and copies them.

He saw how he erased the information until he discovered where Twilight was inside Velzard. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

I would consider that void energy a general resource.

Peak argument

Guy copied Nihility World, so he would only be able to use the Abyss Void, not Void Collapse, since that was never supposed to be its original authority. Besides, the source is still Rimuru, which Guy lacks.

He copied the nihility itself too:

自分と同様、ギィも『虚無』を駆使してヴェルザードに対応しているからだ。〝視た だけで 〟 技を真似られたようで悔しいが、この局面では頼もしくもあった。

And he was able to use it just fine.

Anyway... you brought up a good point. I actually agree with this, so yeah, Alex, I guess you should add the scan or replace it, and sorry for the waste of time.

Na, the more counters addressed the better

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

bro please read the novel properly

Can you, like, not talk like this to others when you aren't even tracking their discussion?

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Peak argument

He copied the nihility itself too:

That’s Testa, right? Anyway, yeah, Nihility World summons the Abyss, so of course he would be able to copy it as well.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

That’s Testa, right?

Yeh

Anyway, yeah, Nihility World summons the Abyss, so of course he would be able to copy it as well.

Yet ds was the same nihility she used against twilight. It doesn't say he copied nihilistic world itself, just that he copied the immediate technique she was using and then started using nihility as well.

Guy's ability is to copy what he "sees", not the actual skill itself (thus why he couldn't copy Raphael initially).