Charlie Morningstar is not weaker than all of hell

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Pretty simple, why isn't Charlie scaling at least to the small building stuff? She is currently street to wall level, which would make her the weakest character in the verse. There is no reason why she shouldn't scale to the average sinner like Cherri or Angel, and even if you want to be mean, below the hellborns? Really?

We even have a good base for glass cannon demons with power, the Goitia. Why can't Charlie, Lucifers own daughter, get that much. Her lack of skill can't seriously be enough to ignore both that and common sense.

Also, her own profiles explanations actually support this, it literally mentions her scuffle with Katie, AL and Rosie calling her powerful and full of potential. And her lifting is superior to Striker on the grounds he is only an Imp, but then why the double standards on other physicals like her AP, striking and dura? Seems oddly selective and narratively makes little sense. Being superior to a lesser demon only in one capacity but not another without any real explanation for that is why I want her to either get an "at least small building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)", a "building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)", or even just "at least small building level, likely/possibly building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)". One final thing to mention is that her superior strength was literally NEEDED to save the sinners after Vox had his MOL tantrum. The sinners couldn't save themselves so Charlie helped them.

And if she can't scale to/above Striker (and the imps as a whole) bare minimum off those accounts, then she shouldn't even get to scale to his/their lifting.

"at least small building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)"
Agree:
Disagree: Reaper, Orange, Anonymous_Learner (3)

"building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)"
Agree: ShionAH, AyOgUyS (2)
Disagree: Reaper, Orange, Anonymous_Learner (3)

"at least small building level, likely/possibly building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)"
Agree: OiEuSouDuvi, mythic (2)
Disagree: Reaper, Orange, Anonymous_Learner (3)

"Remove all scaling to Striker and give an unknown, likely athletic human off of casually tossing a couch aside with one arm"
Agree: Reaper, Orange, Anonymous_Learner (3)
Disagree:

"Wall level off of being comparable to Pentious as physically incapable"
Agree: Anonymous_Learner (1)
Disagree:

I just wanted to get this out there considering how little sense this all makes to me. Also, this would affect her AP, Striking strength, and durability, everything else can stay the same.

 

[DaReaperMan]

OR, all scaling to Striker is removed. Which I agree with,

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I disagree with assumption-scaling, sorry.

Just nuke her LS rating too.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

OR, all scaling to Striker is removed. Which I agree with,

I disagree with assumption-scaling, sorry.

Just nuke her LS rating too.

so, 2 for remove LS

Doesn't hellborn physiology mean she gets the imp scaling though? That's not assumption, that's the physiology we gave them?

 

[Mythic381]

I disagree with assumption-scaling, sorry.

Just nuke her LS rating too.

Looks mostly peaky

This part is bad because I can’t glaze my goats to say they neg diff Sins cuz they are featless fodders

When news of Alastor's "defeat" came, other Overlords assumed that it would take Lucifer himself to do it.

Implied he had beaten Vox in the past, which was also implied by Valentino, and in both cases Vox's reaction was heavily negative, Vox even implying himself that he lost the last fight Alastor implied that the other Vees intervened to help Vox, which is supported by their reactions.

Fire Manipulation (Here)

You do not get to talk about assumption-scaling.

We already have sinners (like Cherri and Angel Dust) being accepted to scale above Imps:

Lifting Strength: Class K (Should be superior to imps such as Striker)

No reason Charlie shouldn't get that.

 

[ShionAH]

She should scale above the fodders of the verse of course, anyone who watched the show would know that makes sense

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

You do not get to talk about assumption-scaling.

We already have sinners (like Cherri and Angel Dust) being accepted to scale above Imps:

No reason Charlie shouldn't get that.

She should scale above the fodders of the verse of course, anyone who watched the show would know that makes sense

I would like to reiterate that she is also a hellborn, so her not at least scaling to them is iffy, it's not an assumption if its biology, she should be hellborn level, pretty simple, on top of the sinners needing her help to get out from under ruble thanks to Vox and the MoL, so it seems she scales above them,

Also, what are your votes on this?

 

[Mythic381]

I would like to reiterate that she is also a hellborn, so her not at least scaling to them is iffy, it's not an assumption if its biology, she should be hellborn level, pretty simple,

Difference is that she isn't from a specific species of Hellborn. She's the daughter of an angel and a human.

on top of the sinners needing her help to get out from under ruble thanks to Vox and the MoL, so it seems she scales above them,

Well yes, but we know she can hurt Katie Killjoy anyways.

Also, what are your votes on this?

Votes on what?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Difference is that she isn't from a specific species of Hellborn. She's the daughter of an angel and a human.

that honestly makes her stronger tho, the angel part at least, and that human was no ordinary lady

Well yes, but we know she can hurt Katie Killjoy anyways.

just tryna compound reasons why she DOES scale

Votes on what?

which one of the 4 options in my post can i count you for, even if you arent staff, they can see what the general consensus is

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I agree with Charlie Base > Striker

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I agree with Charlie Base > Striker

so only the at least small building level one, none of the ones that mention building? got it

 

[ShionAH]

"building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)"

agree with this, no reason she's weaker than angel or cherri

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

so only the at least small building level one, none of the ones that mention building? got it

I actually agree with the third one.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You do not get to talk about assumption-scaling.

I don’t see how these are assumptions, also absolute stalking.

We already have sinners (like Cherri and Angel Dust) being accepted to scale above Imps:

They are not featless and fought that Robo Fizz guy.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I actually agree with the third one.

changing

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

They are not featless and fought that Robo Fizz guy.

Charlie helped sinners who apparently werent strong enough to help themselves and she fought Katie, on top of being a hellborn herself

 

[Mythic381]

I don’t see how these are assumptions

• The entirety of them assuming Lucifer could only defeat Alastor, which we know is untrue.
• Vox vs Alastor fight section is just a bunch of "implied that, implied that, implied that"
• Human getting fire manipulation for a hefty assumption rather than dramatic effects.

also absolute stalking.

absolute coping

They are not featless and fought that Robo Fizz guy.

Doesn't make much sense for it to be the same robot. One is a Loo Loo Land robot, the other is VoxTek.

which one of the 4 options in my post can i count you for, even if you arent staff, they can see what the general consensus is

"at least small building level, likely/possibly building level (same reasoning as profile + superiority to Striker mentioned)"

Agree with this one, also change OiEuSouDuvi's vote to the third one.

 

[ShionAH]

I don’t see how these are assumptions

Fire Manipulation (Here)

 

[DaReaperMan]

He'd definitely offer to suck Adam's dick y'know?

Please tell me you get this joke

 

[Mythic381]

Please tell me you get this joke

no one cares about the ending

 

[ShionAH]

Please tell me you get this joke

I wish I didn't, I wish I didn't watch the finale, I wish it never happened

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Nice to know we have contention on small/possibly building level

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

• The entirety of them assuming Lucifer could only defeat Alastor, which we know is untrue.

And? This is supportive about how Overlords < FP Alastor since they think it takes Lu to beat him, they don’t think they would be. It’s not same as “uhhh let’s assume Charlie can beat X character”.

• Vox vs Alastor fight section is just a bunch of "implied that, implied that, implied that"

NO WAY, statements can imply things????

• Human getting fire manipulation for a hefty assumption rather than dramatic effects.

This is not an assumption, this is what is shown on-screen.

Doesn't make much sense for it to be the same robot. One is a Loo Loo Land robot, the other is VoxTek.

I agree btw, but isn’t it accepted rn. That was the entire reason Overlords were downgraded iirc.

This is not an assumption, that’s on screen lmao.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

And? This is supportive about how Overlords < FP Alastor since they think it takes Lu to beat him, they don’t think they would be. It’s not same as “uhhh let’s assume Charlie can beat X character”.

NO WAY, statements can imply things????

This is not an assumption, this is what is shown on-screen.

Charlie is hellborn, so my assumption is that she is hellborn level, glad you agree

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Charlie is hellborn, so my assumption is that she is hellborn level, glad you agree

Zero correlation, never once I implied that I would agree with this.

I am a human, Muhammad Ali is a human, am I on his level?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Zero correlation, never once I implied that I would agree with this.

I am a human, Muhammad Ali is a human, am I on his level?

you arent born of a literal seraphim, and im not changing your vote obvs, just jesting

(also average hellborns should still scale, so yes, id expect you to be average human level)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

born of a literal seraphim

Born of a literal Seraphim, can’t beat an average Sinner journalist.

Fraudest Seraphim spawn ever.

 

[ShionAH]

I am a human, Muhammad Ali is a human, am I on his level?

Can Muhammad Ali punch a hole through you with a flick? Moxxie can do it to Charlie rn.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Born of a literal Seraphim, can’t be average Sinner journalist.

Uh oh.

Charlie doesnt like killing people, even stopped her dad from killing Adam, why would she put THAT much effort into Katie?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Can Muhammad Ali punch a hole through you with a flick?

Good question, I’ll test this next time I meet with him

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Good question, I’ll test this next time I meet with him

probably shouldn't clog up the CRT, unless you have something new to add, so pls continue this somewhere else

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

probably shouldn't clog up the CRT, unless you have something new to add, so pls continue this somewhere else

It’s just a one time joke brotatcho

Charlie doesnt like killing people, even stopped her dad from killing General of Exorcists, why would she put THAT much effort into Katie?

She was pissed. Just because she doesn’t kill people doesn’t mean she can’t harm when pissed, she could have at least restrained her or punch just hard enough to make her shut up, but can’t.

 

[Mythic381]

And? This is supportive about how Overlords < FP Alastor since they think it takes Lu to beat him, they don’t think they would be. It’s not same as “uhhh let’s assume Charlie can beat X character”.

We already acknowledge that Alastor is the strongest sinner. The instance of him "being defeated" isn't him even losing a fight, it's straight up him accepting a deal which we know is just part of his plan. The whole section is literally just being disingenuous, especially with the implication that Vox would've apparently defeated Alastor in this instance, despite the fact that he actually didn't, and wasn't even stronger than Alastor at this point.

NO WAY, statements can imply things????

You mean like the facts the original assumption was that Vox actually defeated Alastor despite:

• Vox being angered at it's mention.
• People arguing it could've been a popularity contest.

The whole point of "implying" is that you're assuming what the statement means.

This is not an assumption, this is what is shown on-screen.

No, this is a "dramatic effect."

I agree btw, but isn’t it accepted rn. That was the entire reason Overlords were downgraded iirc.

So you get the point, them beating it doesn't mean they should upscale from Imps.

This is not an assumption, that’s on screen lmao.

Give Vox lightening manipulation for doing this. Like it's clear ass just dramatic effects

Good question, I’ll test this next time I meet with him

Literally ignores the whole point of the argument.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

It’s just a one time joke brotatcho

I know, but still it spirals pretty fast

She was pissed. Just because she doesn’t kill people doesn’t mean she can’t harm when pissed, she could have at least restrained her or punch just hard enough to make her shut up, but can’t.

Hence why she wouldnt be scaling much higher than any other sinner, just to what they already do

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

She was pissed. Just because she doesn’t kill people doesn’t mean she can’t harm when pissed, she could have at least restrained her or punch just hard enough to make her shut up, but can’t.

and she was on mostly even footing with Katie even though she was in full demon form, so base Charlie > Full demon sinner (Katie)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

We already acknowledge that Alastor is the strongest sinner. The instance of him "being defeated" isn't him even losing a fight, it's straight up him accepting a deal which we know is just part of his plan. The whole section is literally just being disingenuous, especially with the implication that Vox would've apparently defeated Alastor in this instance, despite the fact that he actually didn't, and wasn't even stronger than Alastor at this point

No? That text never says Vox > Alastor, what are you talking about?

You mean like the facts the original assumption was that Vox actually defeated Alastor despite:

• Vox being angered at it's mention.
• People arguing it could've been a popularity contest.

The whole point of "implying" is that you're assuming what the statement means.

There are many types of implications, some are more solid to conclusion than another. E.g., if I say “if only it rained right now”, it is very likely that it doesn’t rain currently although it is still implicit and not directly said. Then there are just straight up vague things that may imply something but what exactly it means is up to interpretation, which was the case with Vox.

No, this is a "dramatic effect."

No, this is him doing a hand gesture and manipulating fire.

Otherwise I can argue the entire scene isn’t him demonstrating magic but just decoration and Rosie came because she had supernatural hearing.

Spoiler: :&₽&;9

I DON’T EVEN LIKE HIS HUMAN KEY I ADDED IT ONLY BECAUSE OF @DaReaperMan

So you get the point, them beating it doesn't mean they should upscale from Imps.

Be my guest and change it, I’d be happy lol.

Give Vox lightening manipulation for doing this. Like it's clear ass just dramatic effects

He already has MHS+ lol.

Literally ignores the whole point of the argument.

Not really.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

No? That text never says Vox > Alastor, what are you talking about?

There are many types of implications, some are more solid to conclusion than another. E.g., if I say “if only it rained right now”, it is very likely that it doesn’t rain currently although it is still implicit and not directly said. Then there are just straight up vague things that may imply something but what exactly it means is up to interpretation, which was the case with Vox.

No, this is him doing a hand gesture and manipulating fire.

Otherwise I can argue the entire scene isn’t him demonstrating magic but just decoration and Rosie came because she had supernatural hearing.

Spoiler: :&₽&;9

I DON’T EVEN LIKE HIS HUMAN KEY I ADDED IT ONLY BECAUSE OF @DaReaperMan

Be my guest and change it, I’d be happy lol.

He already has MHS+ lol.

Not really.

Once again, take this somewhere else please, this crt is about Charlie

 

[AyOgUyS]

yea agree this looks good

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

yea agree this looks good

Agree to which one? Sorry just need to know out of the 4 options

 

[AyOgUyS]

Agree to which one? Sorry just need to know out of the 4 options

Same as ShionAH