[0-7-2] This wreck right here, it ain't for the faint of heart - Ryomen Sukuna vs Todo & Choso

[Nonynho]

Guess this is add-able since Choso and Todo were part of the operation to take down Full Power Sukuna

Choso and Todo are in their latest keys*; 3F Sukuna used here
Their speed is equalized
Yuji told them all about Sukuna before Sukuna took over (they have Prior Knowledge)


Note about stats:

Spoiler: scaling chain

• If (3F Sukuna ~< Jogo) and (Shinjuku Todo ~< Mahito)
  • While (Mahito ~< Jogo)
  • Then (Shinjuku Todo ~< 3F Sukuna) due to not the widest margin separating them

And Choso's 8-A rating gets him around 3,35x over Sukuna lol

He victimizes them quite easily-

Yuji's Big Bro and his Brother jump his ass- @Nonynho, @XxZetsuxX, @AppleMaker, @Rex_Eckles, @MannyQ361, @BlackDarkness679, @Sus

Incon, somehow- @Mickey1940, @LIGHTYW

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

 

[LIGHTYW]

WHAT IS THEIR ANSWER TO DOMAIN BRO?

 

[Nonynho]

WHAT IS THEIR ANSWER TO DOMAIN BRO?

Todo can TP them out of it and they will know when he'll try it due to the prep (it is a pretty similar answer for Dismantle, before anyone asks)

 

[Nonynho]

bump

Should i make a quick QnA with a few of my posts discussing Shinjuku Todo vs 3F Sukuna that may be relevant here?

 

[Mickey1940]

Todo can TP them out of it and they will know when he'll try it due to the prep (it is a pretty similar answer for Dismantle, before anyone asks)

he can't do that if he doesn't have things infused with cursed energy nearby, and even then he'd need enough prep time to get rocks outside of Sukuna's 200 meter domain radius, which can move alongside Sukuna itself if he chooses.

Sukuna can recover from any damage Choso can deal with RCT and despite Choso's AP advanage domain is still way too much. He doesn't have a way to damage Sukuna enough to drop his domain before he himself gets blendered

voting Sukuna

 

[Nonynho]

he can't do that

He has the range to just use random curses from far far away to change places with him and Choso until MShrine is due

Sukuna can recover from any damage Choso can deal with RCT

3F does not have the same stamina as the full power one or 16F, so he can't count on RCT forever to save his ass
Specially because FP had trouble adapting to Boogie Woogie and were subject to a feint so nothing says he won't be suffering anything similar here

and despite Choso's AP advanage domain is still way too much.

They have ways to avoid it, as i said

He doesn't have a way to damage Sukuna enough to drop his domain before he himself gets blendered

Todo won't instantly die, as per discussed in the GDT he has the skill and the AP to not get immediately brutalized by a Sukuna who, once again, is trying hard to adapt to his technique
With that said, at any given time Choso can charge, even for a little bit and Sukuna will be f*ed

voting Sukuna

Too early to count votes, we pretty much had no discussion

 

[LIGHTYW]

Todo can TP them out of it and they will know when he'll try it due to the prep (it is a pretty similar answer for Dismantle, before anyone asks)

THEY HAVE PREP TIME OR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE?

AND SUKUNA IS A MUCH SKILLED SORCERER AND FIGHTER, GAPS THEM IN BIQ SO SUKUNA WONT JUST USE DOMAIN LIKE THAT.

AND CAN TODO EVEN SEE OR KEEP UP WITH DISMANTLES TO SWAP THEM IN TIME?

 

[Nonynho]

THEY HAVE PREP TIME OR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE?

The latter, yeah it's the only way for them not to get IKd by Dismantle and/or Domain

AND SUKUNA IS A MUCH SKILLED SORCERER AND FIGHTER, GAPS THEM IN BIQ SO SUKUNA WONT JUST USE DOMAIN LIKE THAT.

AND CAN TODO EVEN SEE OR KEEP UP WITH DISMANTLES TO SWAP THEM IN TIME?

Their Prior Knowledge is basically a way to make this fair/ bridge the gap between their BIQ

Without all the knowledge about the guy, they could somewhat deal with his domain in Shinjuku, so it is not impossible to see them being able to escape it here

Todo won't be able to see them, but he more than can deal with how much he uses it due to equal speed and, as i'd like everyone to remember, Sukuna, just like Hanami, had a hard af time to adapt to Boogie Woogie and was subject to feints

And this is not FP, Tired FP nor 16F, so improper use of RCT, attack spam and Domain can and will tire Sukuna out if all goes more or less as i'm proposing

 

[Mickey1940]

He has the range to just use random curses from far far away to change places with him and Choso until MShrine is due

ok fair, didn't realize his range was hundreds of kilometers

3F does not have the same stamina as the full power one or 16F, so he can't count on RCT forever to save his ass
Specially because FP had trouble adapting to Boogie Woogie and were subject to a feint so nothing says he won't be suffering anything similar here

he still has insane levels of stamina and resilience higher than Todo's himself (can fight Megumi without a heart, still has fantastic CE control on par with Gojo's), so RCT would help him out a lot regardless. I can't imagine Todo or Choso properly outlasting him

They have ways to avoid it, as i said

besides Boogie Woogie, they don't have anything

Sukuna can repair his burnt out cursed technique by destroying his brain then healing it with RCT, and he's not dumb enough to spam domain expansion to such a degree that he can't risk the brain damage anymore

Todo won't instantly die, as per discussed in the GDT he has the skill and the AP to not get immediately brutalized by a Sukuna who, once again, is trying hard to adapt to his technique
With that said, at any given time Choso can charge, even for a little bit and Sukuna will be f*ed

If Todo is in the domain he's dead. Simple Domain doesn't help him enough, especially if Sukuna is also punching him in the face. He needs Boogie Woogie to get him out instantly
Choso needs a clean shot to the face in order to destroy his brain completely




With all this being said, I have a very important question
Why does Choso scale to ISBoDK Mahito?
his only feats for this key are uh
getting beaten up by Kenjaku
and that's it

if we take Choso scaling to this version of Mahito at face value and assume Choso is 3 times stronger, AND considering that Todo has both prep time and hundreds of kilometers of range AND his vibraslap

hmmmmmmmmmm

Choso will be doing all of the heavy lifting for obvious reasons. Assuming 3 Finger Sukuna = Shinjuku Yuji and Choso = ISBoDK Mahito, then Sukuna can't hurt him at all without a Black Flash, which he is capable of doing, and maaayyybe Cleave which can adjust its power but that might be a NLF
Sukuna will struggle to land almost all of his hits due to Boogie Woogie but he IS smart enough to figure it out eventually and is also smart enough to realize that Domain would just be a waste of time since both can just escape it, so landing hits should eventually be possible
Stamina is also not an issue for Sukuna meanwhile the reverse isn't true for the other 2, and Sukuna can heal on top of this
Furnace prob just gets dodged so he's prob not gonna use that
Piercing Blood to the face is a viable wincon but he'd need to charge that and Todo would have his hands full basically juggling Sukuna by himself which I can't see him doing, not to mention Sukuna can pop domain and prevent Choso from actually shooting him with it cuz Todo NEEDS to tp them both away to survive and therefore Piercing Blood can't hit Sukuna since it doesn't have the range and even if it did it just gets slashed out of the air by the domain anyways

idk, I still see Sukuna winning. He can outlast them despite Choso's significant AP advantage, if Todo ever gets incapacitated or his vibraslap gets completely destroyed, he can't fight anymore and Sukuna just opens domain gg, RCT is way too much for Todo and Choso unless they do piercing blood through the noggin but Sukuna once again has ways around that

overall, still voting Sukuna, but extremely high diff

 

[LaserPrecision]

If Todo is in the domain he's dead. Simple Domain doesn't help him enough

If even Miwa's Simple Domain could withstand 90 seconds in MS (Alongside most of the others), I don't see why Todo's couldn't last long enough for him to use his technique to escape a weaker Sukuna's domain. Not saying he no diffs Sukuna's domain, but if you're implying it'll instantly break or something I think that's a bit exaggerated dontcha think?

 

[LIGHTYW]

Their Prior Knowledge is basically a way to make this fair/ bridge the gap between their BIQ

WDYM? SUKUNA STILL WOULD BE THE BETTER SORCERER, MORE VERSATILE IN BATTLE AND ETC. EVEN BY WIKI'S STANDARTS, SUKUNA IS LISTED AS GENIUS WHILE CHOSO AND TODO GIFTED. HE'S ALSO MUCH MORE SKILLED IN COMBAT.

Todo won't be able to see them, but he more than can deal with how much he uses it due to equal speed and, as i'd like everyone to remember, Sukuna, just like Hanami, had a hard af time to adapt to Boogie Woogie and was subject to feints

IF HE CANT SEE IT, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT? EVEN IN SHINJUKU, WHERE SUKUNA WAS LOSING OUTPUT AND HIS BODY CONTROL DULLING AND ALSO IN CT BURNOUT, THERE WERE STILL MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS PRETTY CLOSE AND EVEN GRABS THEM, BUT DUE TO CT BURNOUT AND DAMAGED BRAIN, HE WAS LIMITED TO PURE H2H. NOT TO MENTION THAT YUJI WAS MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED TO BOOGIE WOOGIE AND TODO'S OWN FIGHTING STYLE, AS YUJI CANONICALLY WAS ADAPTING TO IT.

WE DONT KNOW IF CHOSO WOULD HAVE THAT "CHEMISTRY".

And this is not FP, Tired FP nor 16F, so improper use of RCT, attack spam and Domain can and will tire Sukuna out if all goes more or less as i'm proposingB

SHOULDNT SUKUNA HAVE THE SAME CE EFFICIENCY?, WE ARE TOLD THAT SUKUNA COULD USE DE AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTED DESPITE HAVING HIS CE DROPPING TO THE LEVEL OF YUTA AND HAVING BRAIN DAMAGE. (CHAP 261) AND AS THE OTHER GUY MENTIONED, SUKUNA WAS ABLE TO FIGHT MEGUMI WITHOUTH HIS HEART, LATER ON SHIBUYA, IMPLIES HE COULD HAVE FIGHTED MAHORAGA, WHO ONESHOTTED SHIBUYA MEGUMI.

AND TODO OR CHOSO SURELY ISNT GOING TO OUTLAST SUKUNA. VOTING SUKUNA.

 

[Nonynho]

he still has insane levels of stamina

He should somewhat scale to his other self, but you'd have to back this up

If Todo is in the domain he's dead. Simple Domain doesn't help him enough, especially if Sukuna is also punching him in the face. He needs Boogie Woogie to get him out instantly
Choso needs a clean shot to the face in order to destroy his brain completely

Won't be a problem as he can escape it quite easily; Sukuna won't be able to punch him in the face until long after the fight started because we saw he had a tough time against Boogie Woogie;
Choso could get clean shots against Yuji who wasn't jumping his ass completely due to how skilled Choso is, with the help of Todo it is not impossible to imagine him being able to get a charged shot, though obviously he won't have all the time in the world to do so, he should have enough.

With all this being said, I have a very important question
Why does Choso scale to ISBoDK Mahito?

I'm basing myself on the profile, even if he was also an 8-B scaling just where Todo is, results wouldn't be any different, specially since Choso has a very good regen

if we take Choso scaling to this version of Mahito at face value and assume Choso is 3 times stronger, AND considering that Todo has both prep time and hundreds of kilometers of range AND his vibraslap

Todo obviously has his Vibraslap, it is standard equip on the key; Todo won't need prep time, he can just change with a curse from far far away

Assuming 3 Finger Sukuna = Shinjuku Yuji

That is not quite right, because 3F Sukuna is said by Gojo and Mahito to not be in the level of Jogo yet, so (Shinjuku Yuji > 3F Sukuna) is definetely true

Sukuna will struggle to land almost all of his hits due to Boogie Woogie but he IS smart enough to figure it out eventually

The problem is: Until he figures out and is able to properly do something, Todo and Choso are not standing still, and they are way more than skilled enough to use eventual opportunities to get big damage or Choso's charged attack to GG him

Piercing Blood to the face is a viable wincon but he'd need to charge that and Todo would have his hands full basically juggling Sukuna by himself which I can't see him doing, not to mention Sukuna can pop domain and prevent Choso from actually shooting him with it cuz Todo NEEDS to tp them both away to survive and therefore Piercing Blood can't hit Sukuna since it doesn't have the range and even if it did it just gets slashed out of the air by the domain anyways

That is not at all a good argument, because Todo is more than skilled enough to keep Sukuna occupied
If Sukuna pops domain to try and disturb the planning, Choso can just keep charging until right after Sukuna's domain is over and then TP them close to one another on a hard to react way (as he's able to do it 50 times per second, TPing in a confusing enough way is not unimaginable), and any damage after this is stupidly harder to deal with since he won't have RCT to save him

He can outlast them despite Choso's significant AP advantage

You'd still need to back this up since differently from other situations like him getting his heart out versus Megumi, his opponents here can actually do damage proper damage to him and can win

if Todo ever gets incapacitated or his vibraslap gets completely destroyed, he can't fight anymore

That has happened and he used its pieces to keep helping, and after Shibuya he doesn't necessarily needs to clap for Boogie Woogie to activate

RCT is way too much for Todo and Choso unless they do piercing blood

You're giving his RCT quite a bunch of credit since this is 3F Sukuna, not the Tired Full Power nor 16F we saw brutalizing everyone

Too many corrections had to be made here, won't be counting votes for the moment

 

[Nonynho]

WDYM? SUKUNA STILL WOULD BE THE BETTER SORCERER, MORE VERSATILE IN BATTLE AND ETC. EVEN BY WIKI'S STANDARTS, SUKUNA IS LISTED AS GENIUS WHILE CHOSO AND TODO GIFTED. HE'S ALSO MUCH MORE SKILLED IN COMBAT.

Yeah but they know all about his kit while he in canon had trouble to figure Boogie Woogie out and would have to at the same time develop countermeasurements for Choso too, who he also don't know the kit yet

That is what i mean by "making a bridge"

IF HE CANT SEE IT, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT?

By completely knowing his kit and by how much we see its usage, since we saw Sukuna interacting with Boogie Woogie and he didn't attempt that at the given moment

WE DONT KNOW IF CHOSO WOULD HAVE THAT "CHEMISTRY".

Choso can box Yuji and could outperform him, and also humiliated Naoya's ass, he should have more than enough BIQ to comprehend and match Boogie Woogie strategies

SHOULDNT SUKUNA HAVE THE SAME CE EFFICIENCY?, WE ARE TOLD THAT SUKUNA COULD USE DE AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTED DESPITE HAVING HIS CE DROPPING TO THE LEVEL OF YUTA AND HAVING BRAIN DAMAGE.

By that point, Sukuna is at his Full Power, even in a tired state he's relative to his 16F self, his 3F self shouldn't be able to use CE as recklessly as his Shinjuku self, even considering brain damage

AND AS THE OTHER GUY MENTIONED, SUKUNA WAS ABLE TO FIGHT MEGUMI WITHOUTH HIS HEART,

And as i mentioned to him, different than Megumi, they are able to cause actual harm to him
Megumi is not near Jogo's level, which is the case for 3F and the other fighters today, so this occasion is not a good argument

LATER ON SHIBUYA, IMPLIES HE COULD HAVE FIGHTED MAHORAGA, WHO ONESHOTTED SHIBUYA MEGUMI

There is no possibility for 3F to properly win against Mahoraga.
Man's weaker than Jogo, he should have way more opportunities to adapt and jump Sukuna's ass, he can imply all he want.

 

[LIGHTYW]

Yeah but they know all about his kit while he in canon had trouble to figure Boogie Woogie out and would have to at the same time develop countermeasurements for Choso too, who he also don't know the kit yet

AGAIN, I DONT SEE HOW THAT WOULD HELP THEM IF TODO CANT EVEN SEE IT. TODO KNOWING ALL ABOUT IT DOESNT MEAN THEY CAN COUNTER EVERY SINGLE DISMANTLE IN BATTLE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY MUCH SMARTER, GAPS THEM IN BIQ AND IS MORE VERSATILE.

By completely knowing his kit and by how much we see its usage, since we saw Sukuna interacting with Boogie Woogie and he didn't attempt that at the given moment

SUKUNA WAS IN CT BURNOUT DURING HIS FIGHT AGAINST TODO AND YUJI. AGAIN, DESPITE BEING LIMITED TO PURE H2H, THERE ARE SEVERAL MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS PRETTY CLOSE AND SOMETIMES HE EVEN GRABS YUJI.

Choso can box Yuji and could outperform him, and also humiliated Naoya's ass, he should have more than enough BIQ to comprehend and match Boogie Woogie strategies

SHIBUYA YUJI AND ESPECIALLY NAOYA ARENT REALLY COMPARABLE TO SUKUNA'S SKILL. NOT TO MENTION THAT YUJI STARTED THE FIGHT AGAINST CHOSO PRETTY DAMAGED. AND IM NOT SAYING TODO AND CHOSO WOULD BE "COMPLETELY LOST", BUT NOT ON THE LEVEL OF SHINJUKU. EVEN YUJI, WHO, AGAIN, CAN CANONICALLY ADAPT TO PEOPLE'S FIGHT STYLE, ALREADY HAD OTHERS EXPERIENCES WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE AND WITH HIS FOCUS SHARPENING MORE AND MORE (PROBABLY DUE TO BLACKFLASHES, AS SUKUNA MENTIONS) STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE HE GOT CAUGHT OR NEARLY CAUGHT.

By that point, Sukuna is at his Full Power, even in a tired state he's relative to his 16F self, his 3F self shouldn't be able to use CE as recklessly as his Shinjuku self, even considering brain damage

TALKING ABOUT CE EFFICIENCY. https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_260_32_dd_017.png
IF SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY WHILE WITH BRAIN DAMAGE STILL GOOD ENOUGH TO USE DOMAIN EXPANSIONS AS MANY TIMES AS HE NEEDS, USING RCT OR HIS CT WOULDNT DO NOTHING TO HIM. AND CHOSO OR TODO ISNT GOING TO OUTLAST THAT.

And as i mentioned to him, different than Megumi, they are able to cause actual harm to him
Megumi is not near Jogo's level, which is the case for 3F and the other fighters today, so this occasion is not a good argument

THE ARGUMENT IS GOOD FOR HIS STAMINA. AND DESPITE CHOSO HAVING AP ADVANTAGE, IM PRETTY SURE IT ISNT ENOUGH TO PUT HOLES ON SUKUNA WITH EVERY PUNCH OR ATTACK

There is no possibility for 3F to properly win against Mahoraga.
Man's weaker than Jogo, he should have way more opportunities to adapt and jump Sukuna's ass, he can imply all he want.

DOMAIN? AND NOT NECESSARILY WIN, BUT IT IMPLIES HE CAN FIGHT AGAINST IT. AND WHY IS 3F SUKUNA WEAKER THAN JOGO?

 

[Mickey1940]

He should somewhat scale to his other self, but you'd have to back this up

He ripped his own heart out to blackmail Megumi back in Season 1, which is the same feat as what he did against Maki in the Shinjuku Showdown (albeit without the soul aspect but even 3F Sukuna can still see the contors of the soul). So his stamina should be very comparable, plus his Cursed Energy Control shouldn't be any different than his Full Power self since that's entirely skill-based, not power based. Your strength and CE reserves don't affect how well you control your CE, so his stamina shoul still be fine.

Won't be a problem as he can escape it quite easily; Sukuna won't be able to punch him in the face until long after the fight started because we saw he had a tough time against Boogie Woogie;

Agree, he did but he generally adapts better than most other characters in the series due to sheer experience, so he should mentally adapt to it better than Mahito could, and he adapted to it decently quickly at least. It's definitely going to be hard during the adaptation and even AFTER the adaptation it's still gonna be hard, but he should be mostly fine after a few minutes, but I'll give you that Sukuna will definitely struggle

Choso could get clean shots against Yuji who wasn't jumping his ass completely due to how skilled Choso is, with the help of Todo it is not impossible to imagine him being able to get a charged shot, though obviously he won't have all the time in the world to do so, he should have enough.

Choso definitely isn't anywhere near as skilled as Sukuna is. Sukuna has all of his abilities and experience, just without the power to back it up nearly as well. Being able to fight toe to toe with Gojo in a battle of skill should still be applied to 3F Sukuna since it's literally the same person. Getting a charge shot isn't impossible, but it's definitely hard to do. You gotta remember that all of Sukuna's attacks are invisible even to other sorcerers, so they literally can't see anything coming. If Choso starts charging, Sukuna can send slashes at him and he nor Todo would even know it's coming (besides the obvious common sense that Sukuna is trying to kill them in this battle lmao but they can't literally see it coming so it's hard for them to predict where or when the attack will land outside of aimdodging). It's not as easy as you might think for a charge shot to work, but you're definitely correct that with Todo it definitely IS possible

I'm basing myself on the profile, even if he was also an 8-B scaling just where Todo is, results wouldn't be any different, specially since Choso has a very good regen

The problem with Choso's profile is that he literally has zero feats putting him at 8A, with the only scale for that being ISBoDK Mahito, which he has no relation to and no chain scaling to help. I personally think that the fight should be using Shibuya Choso just to avoid confusion

That is not quite right, because 3F Sukuna is said by Gojo and Mahito to not be in the level of Jogo yet, so (Shinjuku Yuji > 3F Sukuna) is definetely true

sorry, I meant Shibuya Yuji, not Shinjuku

The problem is: Until he figures out and is able to properly do something, Todo and Choso are not standing still, and they are way more than skilled enough to use eventual opportunities to get big damage or Choso's charged attack to GG him

Considering Sukuna's own arsenal and skill, RCT, invisible slashes, Domain Expansion, Black Flash, and Domain Amplification literally poofing Piercing Blood on contact (The user wraps themselves thinly in a domain unimbued with a cursed technique, allowing them to pour an opponent's technique into the empty space and negate it on contact. This means an attack with Domain Amplification will always land regardless of the opponent's technique), I don't think it will be as easy as you think

That is not at all a good argument, because Todo is more than skilled enough to keep Sukuna occupied
If Sukuna pops domain to try and disturb the planning, Choso can just keep charging until right after Sukuna's domain is over and then TP them close to one another on a hard to react way (as he's able to do it 50 times per second, TPing in a confusing enough way is not unimaginable), and any damage after this is stupidly harder to deal with since he won't have RCT to save him

the problem with this is that Sukuna was able to adapt to boogie woogie's Vibraslap version after just a few exchanges, even with Yuji's and Mei Mei's help. I can't see Todo fighting him all by himself, especially since he's down an arm and he kinda just... refuses to fight in this key. He didn't hit Sukuna a single time in their entire exchange, most likely in order to make sure his Vibraslap didn't get destroyed, which even then it eventually did. Choso can charge as much as he wants but Todo just doesn't have the toolkit necessary to avoid everything Sukuna throws at him, and once the Vibraslap is gone they don't have wincons anymore. Invisible slashes make it so that protecting the Vibraslap is going to be way too difficult to handle

Although in Todo's defense, he's actually STRONG enough to fight Sukuna in this key, so it might be easier to dance around him, but he does need to make sure his vibraslap is protected at all times, which isn't easy.

You'd still need to back this up since differently from other situations like him getting his heart out versus Megumi, his opponents here can actually do damage proper damage to him and can win

Yuji switched with Sukuna against the Finger Bearer, who tore Yuji to shreds and blasted off his arm. Sukuna was able to regenerate said arm in an instant. He was also able to keep Yuji alive for days or months (idr which) without a heart

So his regeneration is potent enough to instantly restore lost limbs, and regenerate vital organs even after extended periods of time

His cursed energy refinement has consistently been stated to be on par with Gojo's Six Eyes, who's CE consumption was "infinitesimally close to zero, making it impossible for them to run out of cursed energy normally", and he didn't experience any weakenings despite using RCT at full power to counteract Malevolent Shrine, which can powderize an entire city in moments with tiny slashes (TLDR thousands if not millions of attacks per second)

So Sukuna's CE consumption is basically 0, meaning he never runs out of cursed energy

The main reason why he WAS weaker during the Shinjuku Showdown was cuz of 2 reasons:
1. Infinite Void damaged his brain so much that he couldn't use his domain
2. He took a Hollow Purple to the face after said brain damage

Without either damage to Sukuna's brain OR significant burst damage that requires WAY more cursed energy than normal to survive, Sukuna will basically never run out of cursed energy

Choso and Todo don't have attacks strong enough to replicate this besides Piercing Blood straight to the brain, and if they hit anywhere else Sukuna is not only immune to the poison blood but he also would just regenerate. Meanwhile Sukuna's wincon is just destroying the Vibraslap which isn't nearly as difficult to set up due to invisible slashes and generally higher skill

You're giving his RCT quite a bunch of credit since this is 3F Sukuna, not the Tired Full Power nor 16F we saw brutalizing everyone

His regen is potent as I mentioned above, even in his 3F key

and his cursed energy consumption might be from a different key, but CE consumption is a learned skill like I mentioned before. Having less cursed energy overall doesn't change how well you control it, so it should still be applicable in this key too.

I'm giving his RCT this much credit since it has the feats and skill-scaling necessary to warrant the credit




I might honestly change my vote to incon

On one hand, Sukuna has so many ways to win, and once Todo is out of the picture, Choso can't win by himself

On the other hand, the prep time allows Todo to to from literally kilometers away, and they do have the tools to keep the vibraslap protected

I can't quite decide who wins here.

 

[Mickey1940]

AGAIN, I DONT SEE HOW THAT WOULD HELP THEM IF TODO CANT EVEN SEE IT. TODO KNOWING ALL ABOUT IT DOESNT MEAN THEY CAN COUNTER EVERY SINGLE DISMANTLE IN BATTLE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY MUCH SMARTER, GAPS THEM IN BIQ AND IS MORE VERSATILE.

SUKUNA WAS IN CT BURNOUT DURING HIS FIGHT AGAINST TODO AND YUJI. AGAIN, DESPITE BEING LIMITED TO PURE H2H, THERE ARE SEVERAL MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS PRETTY CLOSE AND SOMETIMES HE EVEN GRABS YUJI.

SHIBUYA YUJI AND ESPECIALLY NAOYA ARENT REALLY COMPARABLE TO SUKUNA'S SKILL. NOT TO MENTION THAT YUJI STARTED THE FIGHT AGAINST CHOSO PRETTY DAMAGED. AND IM NOT SAYING TODO AND CHOSO WOULD BE "COMPLETELY LOST", BUT NOT ON THE LEVEL OF SHINJUKU. EVEN YUJI, WHO, AGAIN, CAN CANONICALLY ADAPT TO PEOPLE'S FIGHT STYLE, ALREADY HAD OTHERS EXPERIENCES WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE AND WITH HIS FOCUS SHARPENING MORE AND MORE (PROBABLY DUE TO BLACKFLASHES, AS SUKUNA MENTIONS) STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE HE GOT CAUGHT OR NEARLY CAUGHT.

TALKING ABOUT CE EFFICIENCY.

IF SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY WHILE WITH BRAIN DAMAGE STILL GOOD ENOUGH TO USE DOMAIN EXPANSIONS AS MANY TIMES AS HE NEEDS, USING RCT OR HIS CT WOULDNT DO NOTHING TO HIM. AND CHOSO OR TODO ISNT GOING TO OUTLAST THAT.

THE ARGUMENT IS GOOD FOR HIS STAMINA. AND DESPITE CHOSO HAVING AP ADVANTAGE, IM PRETTY SURE IT ISNT ENOUGH TO PUT HOLES ON SUKUNA WITH EVERY PUNCH OR ATTACK

DOMAIN? AND NOT NECESSARILY WIN, BUT IT IMPLIES HE CAN FIGHT AGAINST IT. AND WHY IS 3F SUKUNA WEAKER THAN JOGO?

dude you need to chill out. The full caps isn't necessary

 

[LaserPrecision]

dude you need to chill out. The full caps isn't necessary

No, you don't understand. That's his whole thing. It's his typing quirk, u can't take that away from Light, even his username is all caps

 

[Mickey1940]

No, you don't understand. That's his whole thing. It's his typing quirk, u can't take that away from Light, even his username is all caps

oh whoops

didn't realize it was a bit

carry on then

 

[Nonynho]

will take a bit to answer y'all @Mickey1940 @LIGHTYW
But i will, 100%

 

[Nonynho]

AGAIN, I DONT SEE HOW THAT WOULD HELP THEM IF TODO CANT EVEN SEE IT. TODO KNOWING ALL ABOUT IT DOESNT MEAN THEY CAN COUNTER EVERY SINGLE DISMANTLE IN BATTLE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY MUCH SMARTER, GAPS THEM IN BIQ AND IS MORE VERSATILE.

He is not more versatile than a technique he had trouble adapting to, no
And yeah, in the long term, Sukuna may get one or two dismantles through, if he survives the short-term huge danger that the combo can and will do

SUKUNA WAS IN CT BURNOUT DURING HIS FIGHT AGAINST TODO AND YUJI. AGAIN, DESPITE BEING LIMITED TO PURE H2H, THERE ARE SEVERAL MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS PRETTY CLOSE AND SOMETIMES HE EVEN GRABS YUJI.

Even then, he was subject to feints and went out of his way to say the technique is hard to adapt to, with him having a whole other fighting style than what that situation forced him to have, and Choso, who fights in a considerably different way while also being able to outperform Yuji skillwise (though the diff was slight, still should be meaning he should have an also slightly better time h2h-wise against this Sukuna who's weaker)

SUKUNA'S SKILL.

We're comparing Choso to Yuji to say he would adapt to Boogie Woogie pretty fine, not that he'll outskill Sukuna

EVEN YUJI[...] STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE HE GOT CAUGHT OR NEARLY CAUGHT.

3F Sukuna shouldn't have the same fighting style as TFP had, and even if he has, by Choso outdoing 3F statswise, if he gets grabbed it is not instant death, as he can get himself freed, use his blood to deal heavy piercing damage unavoidable due to the distance and have Sukuna's RCT in even more overclock, just get switched with a random curse from far away...Or the last two combined

TALKING ABOUT CE EFFICIENCY. https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_260_32_dd_017.png

Please upload images to somewhere like imgbb or similars, discord links got banned quite a while ago

IF SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY WHILE WITH BRAIN DAMAGE STILL GOOD ENOUGH TO USE DOMAIN EXPANSIONS AS MANY TIMES AS HE NEEDS, USING RCT OR HIS CT WOULDNT DO NOTHING TO HIM. AND CHOSO OR TODO ISNT GOING TO OUTLAST THAT.

That would be saying as if he had the same amount of CE as his TFP or 16F self... Which is clearly not the case.
Take into consideration that this guy we're talking about is below Jogo, so it is not imaginable that this is someone who can face anything any time as his stronger selves
Choso and Todo also have some pretty good stamina feats (interesting enough, both in Shibuya, and Todo tanking 2 TFP Sukuna Black Flashes is also not something to just pass by (1 he kept going even with the instrument broken and the other one only got him knocked out for a bit)), so one can't say "Sukuna's astronomically higher than them staminawise", and dare i say his stamina is a tiny little bit lower than their's?

AND DESPITE CHOSO HAVING AP ADVANTAGE, IM PRETTY SURE IT ISNT ENOUGH TO PUT HOLES ON SUKUNA WITH EVERY PUNCH OR ATTACK

Not at all, no
But will keep his RCT in constant work (which we already established can bring problems) and charged attacks certainly do, so Sukuna won't be able to leave a single opportunity or else he's cooked

DOMAIN? AND NOT NECESSARILY WIN, BUT IT IMPLIES HE CAN FIGHT AGAINST IT.

If he can fight and die it is not worthy of talking about here
Domain may be of some danger for the first seconds of the fight, then Mahoraga just adapts and it is back to 8-B vs H7-C

AND WHY IS 3F SUKUNA WEAKER THAN JOGO?

Mahito said so after facing Nanami (He was like "oh that was Sukuna? a bit weaker than Jogo" or something alike) and Gojo said so when seeing Jogo (He said "He's a bit stronger than current Sukuna", something among this line)
Our boy @Arkenis brought the scans (IIRC) when we discussed back in the discussion thread

@Mickey1940's answer in a bit

 

[Nonynho]

I might honestly change my vote to incon

On one hand, Sukuna has so many ways to win, and once Todo is out of the picture, Choso can't win by himself

On the other hand, the prep time allows Todo to to from literally kilometers away, and they do have the tools to keep the vibraslap protected

I can't quite decide who wins here.

Want me to debate your points or just add your vote?

 

[LIGHTYW]

He is not more versatile than a technique he had trouble adapting to, no

HE'S MORE VERSATILE THAN TODO AND CHOSO (AGAIN, EVEN BY WIKI'S STANDARTS, SUKUNA LITERALLY GAPS THEM IN IQ, BIQ AND AS A SORCERER, OBVIOUSLY), AND AGAIN.. SUKUNA WAS LIMITED TO PURE H2H IN THE SHINJUKU FIGHT.

And yeah, in the long term, Sukuna may get one or two dismantles through, if he survives the short-term huge danger that the combo can and will do

SUKUNA IS SURVIVING PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING TODO OR CHOSO THROWS AT HIM. THE AP ADVANTAGE CHOSO HAS ISNT SIGNIFICANT TO DO SEVERAL OR FATAL DAMAGE WITHIN EVERY BLOW AND SUKUNA'S RCT OUTPUT AT 3F WAS STILL FAST ENOUGH TO HEAL AN ENTIRE ARM, IN LIKE, MILLISECONDS. AND DISMANTLE IS SOMETHING SUKUNA CAN SPAM, OMNIDIRECIONAL AND USE IT WITHOUTH MOVING A MUSCLE, AS KUSAKABE MENTIONS IN CHAP 254.

Even then, he was subject to feints and went out of his way to say the technique is hard to adapt to

YEA, BUT HIS CT WOULD CLEARLY MAKE DIFFERENCE. AND SUKUNA BEING SUBJECT TO FEINTS WONT MEAN ANYTHING IF THAT'S JUST IT. SUKUNA CAN HEAL AND SUSTAIN BASICALLY "EVERY" DAMAGE HE TAKES.

Choso, who fights in a considerably different way while also being able to outperform Yuji skillwise

YUJI STARTED THE BATTLE ALREADY DAMAGED, BLOOD LOSS AND HE COULDNT EVEN MOVE HIS RIGHT ARM. MY POINT IS THAT: 1ST; YUJI FOUGHT AGAINST TODO AND CANONICALLY ADAPTED TO TODO'S OWN FIGHTING STYLE BEFORE HE INTERACTED WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE 2ND; YUJI HAD SEVERAL EXPERIENCES WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE, AND LIKELY EVEN MORE DURING MONTH TRAINING PRE--SHINJUKU AND YUJI STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE BOTH TODO AND YUJI "FAILED", LIKE, AGAIN, MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS TOO CLOSE AND EVEN PHYSICALLY GRABS THEM.

3F Sukuna shouldn't have the same fighting style as TFP had, and even if he has, by Choso outdoing 3F statswise, if he gets grabbed it is not instant death, as he can get himself freed, use his blood to deal heavy piercing damage unavoidable

SUKUNA IN YUJI'S BODY SHOULD BE EVEN MORE ON OFFENSIVE, AND DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST TODO AND YUJI, SUKUNA ONLY HAD 2 'EFFECTIVE' ARMS, THE OTHERS WERE CUT. (AND THOSE 2 FUNCTIONAL ARMS WERENT EVEN "NORMAL", THEY WERE BOTH RIGHT ARMS, NOT LEFT AND RIGHT, SO THAT SHOULD BE EVEN WORSE.) AND IF SUKUNA USES CLEAVE IT'S DEATH TO THEM.

That would be saying as if he had the same amount of CE as his TFP or 16F self... Which is clearly not the case.

AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCY, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT DOESNT JUST CHANGE WITH LESS OR MORE FINGERS. SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY IS CLOSE TO THE LIKES OF GOJO, AND HE HAS A CANON STATEMENT OF BEING ABLE TO USE DOMAIN EXPANSIONS AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTS DESPITE HAVING BRAIN DAMAGE. 3F SUKUNA SHOWED TO HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH CE TO USE DE, HEAL AN ARM, TAKE HIS OWN HEART OUT & FIGHT AND NOT BE AFFECTED BY IT BECAUSE HIS EFFICIENCY IS SO GOOD THAT HE BARELY SPENDS ANY CE ON DOING THOSE THINGS. HIS CE RESERVES BEING LOWER WONT MATTER HERE.

AND I DONT HAVE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE IN CE COST BETWEEN A DOMAIN EXPANSION AND RCT OR SIMPLY USING HIS CT.

Choso and Todo also have some pretty good stamina feats (interesting enough, both in Shibuya, and Todo tanking 2 TFP Sukuna Black Flashes is also not something to just pass by (1 he kept going even with the instrument broken and the other one only got him knocked out for a bit)), so one can't say "Sukuna's astronomically higher than them staminawise"

SUKUNA IS ASTRONOMICALLY HIGHER. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A GUY THAT'S COMPARABLE TO SIX EYES LEVELS BRO. CMON NOW. AND TODO TAKING BLACKFLASHES AND KEEPING ON FIGHTING IS RELATED TO ENDURANCE. AND THEN, THIS JUST PROVES THAT SUKUNA IS BETTER, SUKUNA TOOK HIS OWN HEART OUT WITHOUTH ANY TROUBLE AND EASILY KEPT FIGHTING, TODO HAD A DIFFICULT TIME TO EVEN STAND STILL AFTER THE BLACKFLASH GAVE HIM A MERE BRUISE.

Mahito said so after facing Nanami (He was like "oh that was Sukuna? a bit weaker than Jogo" or something alike) and Gojo said so when seeing Jogo (He said "He's a bit stronger than current Sukuna", something among this line)
Our boy @Arkenis brought the scans (IIRC) when we discussed back in the discussion thread

DO YOU HAVE THE SCANS? BECAUSE I LOOK AT THE CHAPTERS AND IN TCB TRANSLATION, MAHITO ONLY TALKS ABOUT CE, THAT JOGO HAD MORE THAN HIM BUT SUKUNA'S SOUL AND PRESENCE WERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND GOJO (AGAIN, ON TCB TRANSLATIONS) ONLY SAYS PROBABLY, AND HE WAS LIKELY TALKING ABOUT CE TOO AS GOJO FIRSTLY MENTIONS HIS CE RESERVES BEING VERY IMPRESSIVE.

 

[Nonynho]

I'll be giving proper answer tomorrow

 

[Mickey1940]

Want me to debate your points or just add your vote?

debate my points please

 

[Nonynho]

debate my points please

Will do so right after finishing responding to the latest @LIGHTYW post

 

[Nonynho]

HE'S MORE VERSATILE THAN TODO AND CHOSO (AGAIN, EVEN BY WIKI'S STANDARTS, SUKUNA LITERALLY GAPS THEM IN IQ, BIQ AND AS A SORCERER, OBVIOUSLY), AND AGAIN.. SUKUNA WAS LIMITED TO PURE H2H IN THE SHINJUKU FIGHT.

He can be as versatile as he wants, he is a victim of Boogie Woogie in canon, so more prepared fighters who know what he's capable of have more than enough to not be no-sold

THE AP ADVANTAGE CHOSO HAS ISNT SIGNIFICANT TO DO SEVERAL OR FATAL DAMAGE WITHIN EVERY BLOW

We see this too commonly in the wiki to tell, but a 3x diff is significant and able to do severe damage, and that is without him reinforcing his limbs, which should make him even more capable of doing damage

As his durability scales to the same place his AP does, Choso should be able to exert 3x what we're told 3F is able to withstand.

Definetely not a stomp gap? Yes.
A small gap we're able to call "not significant enough to do severe damage"? No.

SUKUNA'S RCT OUTPUT AT 3F WAS STILL FAST ENOUGH TO HEAL AN ENTIRE ARM, IN LIKE, MILLISECONDS.

My point being that he won't be able to just do it forever as 3F should not have the same stupidly high stamina his stronger forms have
Choso should be able to do the same by having Eso's regen

DISMANTLE IS SOMETHING SUKUNA CAN SPAM, OMNIDIRECIONAL AND USE IT WITHOUTH MOVING A MUSCLE, AS KUSAKABE MENTIONS IN CHAP 254.

It is easier to predict when will 3F try dismantle than it is to predict Boogie Woogie, and it is something he doesn't do all the time as he is going to take a bit to actually take this seriously, for starters, and tries other stuff more usually

and it is not impossible to see the guy who withstood 2 TFP kokusens and the other who's 3x more durable tanking 2 or 3 dismantles quite easily

YEA, BUT HIS CT WOULD CLEARLY MAKE DIFFERENCE. AND SUKUNA BEING SUBJECT TO FEINTS WONT MEAN ANYTHING IF THAT'S JUST IT. SUKUNA CAN HEAL AND SUSTAIN BASICALLY "EVERY" DAMAGE HE TAKES.

Will take very long for him to actually hit with his CT, and it will tire 3F to sustain RCT at all time

And by how we've seen Todo fight, feints aren't going to be "just it", specially when every milissecond Choso charges is important and with Todo being more than able to perform a kokusen (hell, i'd put my money even Choso's able to pull one off)

3F can take a very large amount of hits, but definetely not all of them and those guys being prepared for him are way more than capable of doing severe damage

YUJI STARTED THE BATTLE ALREADY DAMAGED, BLOOD LOSS AND HE COULDNT EVEN MOVE HIS RIGHT ARM.

Against Choso??
My guy had just fought Awasaka with Megumi, think you're mistaking the order
He was quite fine until he fought Choso lol

MY POINT IS THAT: 1ST; YUJI FOUGHT AGAINST TODO AND CANONICALLY ADAPTED TO TODO'S OWN FIGHTING STYLE BEFORE HE INTERACTED WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE

Choso not only canonically outskilled Yuji by outboxing him in the most disadvantageous scenario possible, but he also showed better adaptation skill by being the only one of the two who eventually was able to deal with Naoya's speed.
He should be able to adapt to Todo's technique quite easily, specially because Todo is a very capable strategist who should take into consideration that it takes some effort to adapt to this technique. Something to note is that stuff done to confuse Sukuna is more than able to be taken as "training for adaptating", like the example below when they would run towards him to jump his ass, or what he done in canon against TFP (in the cute ass gif below)

Spoiler: flash warning

2ND; YUJI HAD SEVERAL EXPERIENCES WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE, AND LIKELY EVEN MORE DURING MONTH TRAINING PRE--SHINJUKU AND YUJI STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE BOTH TODO AND YUJI "FAILED", LIKE, AGAIN, MOMENTS WHERE SUKUNA GETS TOO CLOSE AND EVEN PHYSICALLY GRABS THEM.

Once again, 3F shouldn't be using the same fighting style and even if that were to be the case, Choso has answers like i proposed before

SUKUNA IN YUJI'S BODY SHOULD BE EVEN MORE ON OFFENSIVE, AND DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST TODO AND YUJI, SUKUNA ONLY HAD 2 'EFFECTIVE' ARMS, THE OTHERS WERE CUT. (AND THOSE 2 FUNCTIONAL ARMS WERENT EVEN "NORMAL", THEY WERE BOTH RIGHT ARMS, NOT LEFT AND RIGHT, SO THAT SHOULD BE EVEN WORSE.) AND IF SUKUNA USES CLEAVE IT'S DEATH TO THEM.

Even if Sukuna is more in the offensive here (hardly the case because of his personality) and even if his fighting style is the same (Also hardly the case because of what canon shows us), he also has 2 arms here...?
The only immediate IK Sukuna has here is if they fail to escape domain (not happening because my man Todo is more than capable of avoiding this possibility), neither Cleave or Dismantle should be IK-ing because of how resistant those guys are (one took 2 TFP kokusens to pass out and the other is 3x more durable than 3F)

AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCY, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT DOESNT JUST CHANGE WITH LESS OR MORE FINGERS. SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY IS CLOSE TO THE LIKES OF GOJO, AND HE HAS A CANON STATEMENT OF BEING ABLE TO USE DOMAIN EXPANSIONS AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTS DESPITE HAVING BRAIN DAMAGE.

Sukuna is definetely just talk, nobody can use Domain as much as they want indefinetely, but you know why both we and the characters are believing this what is clearly BS?

• Fear Inducement (His presence causes people and curses to feel inferior to him, forcing them to act instinctively to survive)

Because that is a scary MF who is indeed very skilled, who is indeed one of the most capable CE users to ever exist.
But no, it is not possible or plausible to assume he is just able to use whatever, whenever.

3F SUKUNA SHOWED TO HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH CE TO USE DE, HEAL AN ARM, TAKE HIS OWN HEART OUT & FIGHT AND NOT BE AFFECTED BY IT BECAUSE HIS EFFICIENCY IS SO GOOD THAT HE BARELY SPENDS ANY CE ON DOING THOSE THINGS. HIS CE RESERVES BEING LOWER WONT MATTER HERE.

I've already said this, but those factors indeed matter... when the fight is against our poor Megumi.
We're talking about people leagues above him. He will need to spend way more than that to cover the damage they're able to do to him.

SUKUNA IS ASTRONOMICALLY HIGHER. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A GUY THAT'S COMPARABLE TO SIX EYES LEVELS BRO. CMON NOW

Staminawise? Not in this key. This is unimaginable lol

AND TODO TAKING BLACKFLASHES AND KEEPING ON FIGHTING IS RELATED TO ENDURANCE.

Taking those 2 he just passed out and then came back to the fight a bit later so this is relatable to how huge his stamina is lol
This Sukuna key is not capable of this feat, hence why i say the team side of this has slightly better stamina than Sukuna in this key

THIS JUST PROVES THAT SUKUNA IS BETTER, SUKUNA TOOK HIS OWN HEART OUT WITHOUTH ANY TROUBLE AND EASILY KEPT FIGHTING, TODO HAD A DIFFICULT TIME TO EVEN STAND STILL AFTER THE BLACKFLASH GAVE HIM A MERE BRUISE.

Lemme give you two small corrections that make all the difference to see if my point about this gets through

THIS JUST PROVES THAT SUKUNA IS BETTER, SUKUNA TOOK HIS OWN HEART OUT WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE AND EASILY KEPT FIGHTING Megumi, who is stomp-level weaker than all of the parts involved in this match, TODO HAD A DIFFICULT TIME TO EVEN STAND STILL AFTER THE BLACKFLASH GAVE HIM A MERE BRUISE made him cough blood, and we all remember that Blackflashes do a f* ton of damage on the inside.

DO YOU HAVE THE SCANS?

My point was about CE and they spoke in a way where we can understand exactly what i've said

 

[Nonynho]

He ripped his own heart out to blackmail Megumi back in Season 1, which is the same feat as what he did against Maki in the Shinjuku Showdown (albeit without the soul aspect but even 3F Sukuna can still see the contors of the soul).

He could pull both through because he is basically at stomp level above them in each situation and has a very boasty personality.

plus his Cursed Energy Control shouldn't be any different than his Full Power self since that's entirely skill-based, not power based. Your strength and CE reserves don't affect how well you control your CE, so his stamina shoul still be fine.

My points never circle around how Sukuna won't be able to use CE as skillfully as his his other selves, just that he'll have a much much smaller reserve and mis-using, which Choso and Todo should be more than able to make him do, can be fatally problematic

he generally adapts better than most other characters in the series due to sheer experience[...] but I'll give you that Sukuna will definitely struggle

The problem here is that Todo and Choso are not having the same hard time getting their kits through, and they won't let any opportunity Sukuna will eventually let while adapting, go through unused, that's why the struggle heavily indicates they can win more often than not

Choso definitely isn't anywhere near as skilled as Sukuna is

He doesn't need to because Todo is there too, basically.
Choso is skilled and durable enough to not die instantly nor quickly, which combined with BW should be enough to use eventual opportunity(ies)

You gotta remember that all of Sukuna's attacks are invisible even to other sorcerers, so they literally can't see anything coming.

They know that and until Sukuna's adapted enough to BW this won't be a problem
I do not discard the possibility of Sukuna being put in front of one of his own attacks lol

I personally think that the fight should be using Shibuya Choso just to avoid confusion

Shinjuku Choso is the one that has a remote chance of having interacted with Todo so besides putting the team in a very worse position by Choso not being able to do proper damage, it would make the match 100% un-addable, while this one i can argue for the add-ability

sorry, I meant Shibuya Yuji, not Shinjuku

(Shibuya Yuji ~< 3F) should be true, because 3F is relatable to Jogo, who Shibuya Yuji can't deal with at all, so following your logic, Choso should be hurt-able by Sukuna, definetely.

Considering Sukuna's own arsenal

Which we already agreed he can't use properly because of the dificulty to adapt to BW

and Domain Amplification literally poofing Piercing Blood on contact

Using it is making his situation a bit worse since burning his CE reserves is a wincon for the bros team, meaning it is likely PB could be used as a feint, which highly benefits the difficulty to adapt to BW

I don't think it will be as easy as you think

Never said so, just that the bros team have enough to win 51%+

I can't see Todo fighting him all by himself, especially since he's down an arm and he kinda just... refuses to fight in this key.

That is one very very specific scenario, so even if a losing one, it'll just be one among various more favorable ones, like Choso not charging and amping his arm lol

Yuji switched with Sukuna against the Finger Bearer

I again call out that this situation is not usable here because

• The arm regen feat is also doable for Choso, due to having Eso's ability to do so
• He was able to use RCT without thought because he was against someone at stomp-level below him who he wanted to keep alive which is totally the contrary of the case we're talking about
  • Meaning they don't need to have a strong af attack, just get him to keep draining his CE with RCT and pointless attacks and use eventual opportunities to end him either when his CE reserve is cooked or whenever he lets a window open while adapting to BW

If it wasn't clear enough, i'll finally add myself for the bros team side FRA

 

[LIGHTYW]

He can be as versatile as he wants, he is a victim of Boogie Woogie in canon, so more prepared fighters who know what he's capable of have more than enough to not be no-sold

IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION AGAINST SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY EXPERIENCED TO BOOGIE WOOGIE. AND HE ISNT A "VICTIM" OF NOTHING, THE FIGHT STOPPED MID WAY AND WE DONT KNOW HOW IT WOULD GO, AND THEN, SUKUNA WAS ALSO GETTING HIS BODY CONTROL DULLED DUE TO YUJI ABILITY, SUKUNA'S BODY CONTROL AND MOVEMENTS WILL BE COMPLETELY FINE HERE.

We see this too commonly in the wiki to tell, but a 3x diff is significant and able to do severe damage, and that is without him reinforcing his limbs, which should make him even more capable of doing damage

As his durability scales to the same place his AP does, Choso should be able to exert 3x what we're told 3F is able to withstand.

Definetely not a stomp gap? Yes.
A small gap we're able to call "not significant enough to do severe damage"? No.

AGAIN, IT WONT DO SEVERE OR SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO SOMEONE LIKE SUKUNA ANYWAYS. 3F RCT OUTPUT'S FAST ENOUGH TO HEAL AN ENTIRE ARM IN MILLISECONDS, CHOSO ISNT GOING TO DO DAMAGE LIKE THIS SO SUKUNA IS SUSTAINING EVERYTHING THEY THROW AT HIM.

My point being that he won't be able to just do it forever as 3F should not have the same stupidly high stamina his stronger forms have
Choso should be able to do the same by having Eso's regen

THE POINT IS THAT YOUR POINT IS WRONG. SUKUNA'S STAMINA SHOULDNT CHANGE WITH LESS OR MORE FINGERS, LIKE, DO YOU EVEN HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP? AND AGAIN, IN TERMS OF CE EFFICIENCY, WE HAVE SEVERAL STATEMENTS AND FEATS COMPARING HIM TO SIX EYES AND SAYING HE CAN LITERALLY SPAM DEs. HIM USING RCT WONT DO NOTHING TO HIS RESERVES. I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU'RE BRINGING THIS POINT UP WHEN DURING SHINJUKU FIGHT, SUKUNA DIDNT EVEN HAD RCT AT ALL AND HE WAS STILL KEEPING UP THROUGH LITERALLY PURE ENDURANCE AND STAMINA, AND IF YOU DONT REMEMBER, SUKUNA WAS FIGHTING A YUJI THAT COULD DO SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVEN PUT HOLES ON HIM. THERE'S LITERALLY NO DEBATE ON THIS.

It is easier to predict when will 3F try dismantle than it is to predict Boogie Woogie, and it is something he doesn't do all the time as he is going to take a bit to actually take this seriously, for starters, and tries other stuff more usually

and it is not impossible to see the guy who withstood 2 TFP kokusens and the other who's 3x more durable tanking 2 or 3 dismantles quite easily

AND WHY IS THAT? LIKE, TODO LITERALLY CANT SEE OR KEEP UP WITH INVISIBLE SLASHES AND TODO HAS NEVER FOUGHT SUKUNA WHILE HE HAD SHRINE. IF ANYTHING, NOW THAT SUKUNA HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OF HIS BODY AND NOT BRAIN DAMAGE, IT WILL BE EASIER TO PREDICT BOOGIE WOOGIE THROUGH CE SPARK. AND 2: TODO COULDNT WITHSTAND 2 BLACKFLASHES, WITHIN THE FIRST HE COULD BARELY MOVE AND THE SECOND, BY NARRATOR ITSELF, KNOCKED HIM OUT.

Will take very long for him to actually hit with his CT, and it will tire 3F to sustain RCT at all time

And by how we've seen Todo fight, feints aren't going to be "just it", specially when every milissecond Choso charges is important and with Todo being more than able to perform a kokusen (hell, i'd put my money even Choso's able to pull one off)

3F can take a very large amount of hits, but definetely not all of them and those guys being prepared for him are way more than capable of doing severe damage

SUKUNA WITH PURE H2H WAS ALREADY STRIKING TODO AND A WAY MORE SKILLED FIGHTER THAN CHOSO. AND AGAIN, I ALREADY SHOWED STATEMENTS AND PROOF ABOUT SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY, WHICH DOESNT CHANGE. IF YOU THINK SUKUNA HAVING TO USE RCT WILL TIRE HIM OUT, BRING PROOFS. AND AGAIN, DURING THE TODO, YUJI VS SUKUNA, WE LITERALLY SAW SUKUNA WITHSTANDING AND FIGHTING THEM WITHOUTH HAVING RCT, BRAIN DAMAGE, ON CT BURNOUT AND HE ALREADY GOT TO THE BATTLE PRETTY DAMAGED. YOUR POINTS MAKE NO SENSE.

Against Choso??
My guy had just fought Awasaka with Megumi, think you're mistaking the order
He was quite fine until he fought Choso lol

THE SECOND CHOSO SAW YUJI HE LITERALLY PRE-FIRED ON HIM, WHICH MADE YUJI BASICALLY "LOSE" HIS RIGHT ARM AND HAVE A SEVERE BLOOD LOSS THROUGHOUT THE FIGHT. THIS IS NOT A GOOD COMPARISON.

Choso not only canonically outskilled Yuji by outboxing him in the most disadvantageous scenario possible, but he also showed better adaptation skill by being the only one of the two who eventually was able to deal with Naoya's speed.

BRO, YUJI STARTED THE CQC CONFRONTS WITHOUTH BEING ABLE TO MOVE HIS RIGHT ARM, AND WHEN THE FIGHT STARTED GOING ACTUALLY H2H, CHOSO WAS GETTING HIS ASS BEAT, CHOSO ISNT A MORE SKILLED H2H FIGHTER THAN YUJI LOL. AND MY POINT WAS USING SHINJUKU YUJI, WHO'S ALREADY ON ANOTHER LEVEL COMPARED TO SHIBUYA YUJI ANYWAYS? AND WHY ARE YOU MENTIONING NAOYA, YUJI DIDNT EVEN HAD A PROLONGED FIGHT WITH NAOYA, AND THEN, NAOYA HAS DOZENS AND CONSISTENT LOW BIQ MOMENTS, LIKE, A DAMAGED SHIBUYA YUJI LASTED LONGER THAN NAOYA.

He should be able to adapt to Todo's technique quite easily, specially because Todo is a very capable strategist who should take into consideration that it takes some effort to adapt to this technique.

AGAIN, YUJI, A MORE SKILLED FIGHTER THAN CHOSO AND MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED WITH BOOGIE WOOGIE AND TODO HIMSELF STILL HAD MOMENTS WHERE THEY FAILED AND NEARLY FCKED. IM NOT SAYING THEY WONT, IT'S JUST THAT IT WONT BE EASY LIKE YOU'RE PROPOSING WITHOUTH ANY PROOF, ESPECIALLY WITH SUKUNA HAVING SHRINE SO TODO'S PROBLEMS WOULD BE DOUBLED AS HE WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING HE CANT EVEN SEE.

Once again, 3F shouldn't be using the same fighting style and even if that were to be the case, Choso has answers like i proposed before

WHY NOT? AND WHAT ANSWERS? DURING THE FIGHT BETWEEN TODO, YUJI VERSUS SUKUNA, SUKUNA ONLY HAD 2 FUNCTIONAL ARMS, THE OTHERS WERE CUT.

neither Cleave or Dismantle should be IK-ing because of how resistant those guys are (one took 2 TFP kokusens to pass out and the other is 3x more durable than 3F)

IF IT'S POINT BLANK DISMANTLES, BOTH DISMANTLES AND CLEAVES ARE INSTANTLY KILLING TODO AND DOING SEVERE DAMAGE TO CHOSO, WHICH IS SOMETHING TODO CANT SEE AND YOU STILL DIDNT BRING ANYTHING TO PROVE WHY TODO WOULD BE ABLE TO JUST KEEP UP AND ALWAYS AVOID SOMETHING HE CANT SEE AND HAS NEVER DEALT BEFORE.

Sukuna is definetely just talk, nobody can use Domain as much as they want indefinetely, but you know why both we and the characters are believing this what is clearly BS?

BRO. IT'S LITERALLY A NARRATOR STATEMENT. AND YES, PEOPLE LIKE GOJO AND SUKUNA CAN.

I've already said this, but those factors indeed matter... when the fight is against our poor Megumi.
We're talking about people leagues above him. He will need to spend way more than that to cover the damage they're able to do to him.

THAT'S NOT THE POINT? THE POINT IS THAT SUKUNA DID ALL THIS AND NEVER FELT ANYTHING EVEN WHILE FIGHTING, NO PAIN OR TIREDNESS. AND AGAIN, DESPITE ALL THOSE NERFS, SUKUNA CONFIRMS HE STILL COULD FIGHT AGAINST MAHORAGA.

Staminawise? Not in this key. This is unimaginable lol

BRO, YOU'RE JUST IGNORING CANON AND NARRATOR STATEMENTS.

This Sukuna key is not capable of this feat, hence why i say the team side of this has slightly better stamina than Sukuna in this key

YES, TODO WHO COULD BARELY MOVE AND COULD BARELY STAND STILL AFTER GETTING A BRUISE ON THE CHEST AND LIKELY MINOR INTERNAL DAMAGE HAS BETTER STAMINA THAN A GUY THAT USED A DOMAIN, HEALED AN ENTIRE ARM, TOOK HIS OWN HEART OUT AND LAUGHED ABOUT IT.

SURE, TODO AND CHOSO HAS BETTER STAMINA. IF YOU REALLY THINK THIS, WHAT'S PROVING YOUR CLAIM?

My point was about CE and they spoke in a way where we can understand exactly what i've said

SO, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? JOGO HAVING MORE CE DOESNT MEAN HE'S STRONGER THAN SUKUNA.

 

[LIGHTYW]

Against Choso??
My guy had just fought Awasaka with Megumi, think you're mistaking the order
He was quite fine until he fought Choso lo

BEFORE YUJI EVEN KNEW WHO CHOSO WAS AND IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A FIGHT, CHOSO'S PB DID THIS TO HIS ARM. THIS DAMAGE ITSELF ALREADY PROVES HOW ANY COMPARISON IN COMBAT SKILLS MAKES NO SENSE BUT THEN, YUJI PROCEEDS TO GET EVEN MORE DAMAGED AND LOSE EVEN MORE BLOOD AS HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT CHOSO.

YUJI WITH A SINGLE HAND WAS HANDLING CHOSO IN PURE H2H (THE MOMENT WITH ACTUAL H2H IN THE FIGHT) AND HE PROCEEDS TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE AND EVEN HITS CHOSO, BUT AGAIN, HE LOSES BECAUSE HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT CHOSO AND HIS ABILITIES. CHOSO WOULDNT OUTBOX YUJI EVEN IN HIS DREAMS BRO.

AND DESPITE ALL OF THE DAMAGE, ONE ARM ONLY, YUJI WAS CONFIDENT HE'D BEAT CHOSO IN H2H COMBAT. SO, NO. CHOSO DOESNT SCALE TO YUJI'S SKILL, IMAGINE SHINJUKU.

 

[LIGHTYW]

A HEARTLESS, CT BURNOUT AND DAMAGED 3F CAN FIGHT MAHORAGA AND EVEN A CHANCE TO BEAT HIM.

 

[LaserPrecision]

A HEARTLESS, CT BURNOUT AND DAMAGED 3F CAN FIGHT MAHORAGA AND EVEN A CHANCE TO BEAT HIM.

He wasn't on burnout, he used either Cleave or Dismantle to dispatch Megumi's snake instantly. Everything else there is fine, granted I don't think missing a heart quantifiably weakens him by a significant margin at this point in time. That said, I don't trust Sukuna's own arrogant self confident words when his own physical attacks couldn't even hurt Mahoraga and he had to rely on Shrine to deal any actual damage plus the fact Mahoraga's strike sent 15f Sukuna flying and cracked his arm. There's also the fact Gege stated 5f Sukuna would be equal to Jogo but since he didn't want the serialization to be too long he fed Sukuna 10 more fingers so it would be a stomp and go by quicker. So unless you believe Jogo >>> Mahoraga, it's hard to conceive how he would've stood a chance against Mahoraga as 3f Sukuna outside of maybe Domain Expansion (and even then that seems dubious).

We really need to weigh every statement in the manga and their validity as there are too many statements that create weird circular retroactive scaling messes. This is one of them.

 

[Doggo]

Can someone summarize the arguments so far?

 

[Nonynho]

Can someone summarize the arguments so far?

For Sukuna's side it's basically he does his thing and ggs both of them because he's amazing (which indeed he is, but not quite as much as we tend to think in this specific key)

For the bros duo, they have more than enough resources and skill to wear him out, deal with his amazing attacks and regen, and can eventually fatally wound Sukuna before he's able to properly deal with their stuff, mainly Boogie Woogie

no big news, i'm the only one defending the exquisite side of this and so far nobody fully agrees with me

 

[LIGHTYW]

He wasn't on burnout, he used either Cleave or Dismantle to dispatch Megumi's snake instantly.

UH, I FORGOT THAT

Everything else there is fine, granted I don't think missing a heart quantifiably weakens him by a significant margin at this point in time.

YEA, FOR SOMEONE LIKE SUKUNA IT ISN'T, BUT I MAINLY BROUGHT IT UP BECAUSE 3F SUKUNA HEALING AN ARM (A IMPRESSIVE FEAT EVEN FOR TOP-TIER SORCERERS), USING DOMAIN EXPANSION, RIPPING HIS OWN HEART OUT AND THEN FIGHTING MEGUMI IS A BETTER SHOWCASE OF CE EFFICIENCY, ENDURANCE, AND STAMINA THAN ANYTHING TODO HAS EVER DONE. BUT IT ALSO SHOULD STILL WEAKEN SUKUNA TO SOME POINT, JUST AS GENERAL DAMAGE DOES

There's also the fact Gege stated 5f Sukuna would be equal to Jogo but since he didn't want the serialization to be too long he fed Sukuna 10 more fingers so it would be a stomp and go by quicker. So unless you believe Jogo >>> Mahoraga, it's hard to conceive how he would've stood a chance against Mahoraga as 3f Sukuna outside of maybe Domain Expansion (and even then that seems dubious).

I SAW THAT STATEMENT BUT I SAW LIKE, 20 DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS AND VERSIONS

 

[Nonynho]

A point i brought but i think is importsnt to debate more is Choso reinforcing his limbs, which should make his moves hurt even more than the 3x gap

AND HE ISNT A "VICTIM" OF NOTHING

It's just an expression, a tiny bit exagerating, reminding that he said Boogie Woogie's difficult to adapt to

AGAIN, IT WONT DO SEVERE OR SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO SOMEONE LIKE SUKUNA ANYWAYS.

Just because you're saying? I pointed out a pretty good reason and his RCT ain't just solving whatever, whenever

SUKUNA'S STAMINA SHOULDNT CHANGE WITH LESS OR MORE FINGERS, LIKE, DO YOU EVEN HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP?

You're the one who should back up he has the same stamina of his other forms when not even his CE reserves are the same
If you can prove to us that he has the same stamina of the others, this could do a bit of impact on the argument(s)... But you can't and nobody can.

WE HAVE SEVERAL STATEMENTS AND FEATS COMPARING HIM TO SIX EYES AND SAYING HE CAN LITERALLY SPAM DEs

At other keys and situations

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU'RE BRINGING THIS POINT UP WHEN DURING SHINJUKU FIGHT, SUKUNA DIDNT EVEN HAD RCT AT ALL AND HE WAS STILL KEEPING UP THROUGH LITERALLY PURE ENDURANCE AND STAMINA, AND IF YOU DONT REMEMBER, SUKUNA WAS FIGHTING A YUJI THAT COULD DO SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVEN PUT HOLES ON HIM. THERE'S LITERALLY NO DEBATE ON THIS.

You mean a completely different and stupidly stronger Sukuna fighting a stronger Yuji who could do 7 black flashes in a row? Also, i didn't say he can't keep up at all, just that eventually he won't be able to because enduring is tiring and because he doesn't have the stamina his other selves have

AND WHY IS THAT?

Because of prior knowledge and skill. He didn't fight the guy, but PK covers that.
He should be having a hard time dealing with how they operate, not just Boogie Woogie as a CT

IF ANYTHING, NOW THAT SUKUNA HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OF HIS BODY AND NOT BRAIN DAMAGE, IT WILL BE EASIER TO PREDICT BOOGIE WOOGIE THROUGH CE SPARK

If it wasn't for the fact Choso and Todo are doing other stuff to beat him and not standing still showing off Boogie Woogie, that could be true.

2: TODO COULDNT WITHSTAND 2 BLACKFLASHES, WITHIN THE FIRST HE COULD BARELY MOVE AND THE SECOND, BY NARRATOR ITSELF, KNOCKED HIM OUT.

The fact it took 2 for him to pass out (and was later even capable of coming back to the fight for a moment) and not just get him brutalized is supposed to show that he won't just get the Ishigori treatment by one dismantle, it is a supporting argument for why even if their prediction abilities fail, they aren't dead immediately

AND AGAIN, I ALREADY SHOWED STATEMENTS AND PROOF ABOUT SUKUNA'S EFFICIENCY, WHICH DOESNT CHANGE

Which i ain't debunking so it ain't an answer at all..?

IF YOU THINK SUKUNA HAVING TO USE RCT WILL TIRE HIM OUT, BRING PROOFS.

This does not relate with the unchanged CE efficiency, i say this will eventually happen because his CE reserves are lower than his other keys and it will be drained by RCT, his CT and eventual domain attempts while he is being beaten. They also know the neck weakness RCT has and if he tries bypassing the domain weakness by doing brain damage to himself, he either won't be able to due to the pressure or his attempt will fall short.

Let's try to quantify (This ain't no precise measurement, this is figurative only)
16F's (and TFP since they compare, somewhat) CE reserve is like 10.000.000,00 dollars, and to do RCT, his CT, Domain, etc he uses 500,00 each second, so like at least 1.500,00 used, nothing huge
3F's CE reserve is not 10 million, because that guy is under Jogo's CE reserve who 16F humiliated, so let's say... 1.000.000 dollars
Todo's Boogie Woogie is hard to adapt, he's been taking several hits and trying to hit them with his CT, so let's say he's spending a bit less, trying to conserve, he's using 1.000,00 per second. That is significant and will eventually make his reserve end if Todo and Choso are able to keep up the rhythm of his beating, which i've shown more than 3 arguments for why they can and will.

WE LITERALLY SAW SUKUNA WITHSTANDING AND FIGHTING THEM WITHOUTH HAVING RCT, BRAIN DAMAGE, ON CT BURNOUT AND HE ALREADY GOT TO THE BATTLE PRETTY DAMAGED. YOUR POINTS MAKE NO SENSE.

That is another Sukuna entirely, and he's a beast with way more reserve and capabilities because of an unsurprising...

How senseless can one be of saying someone is able to do significantly less than someone stupidly stronger and more durable than him!!! PREPOSTEROUS!!!!!

THIS IS NOT A GOOD COMPARISON.

BEFORE YUJI EVEN KNEW WHO CHOSO WAS AND IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A FIGHT, CHOSO'S PB DID THIS TO HIS ARM. [...]

And right after this, Choso noticed he was going to be beaten if too many hits got through, since 3 f*ed him up

And right after that, Choso was put in a trap specifically to null 95% of his kit and got surprised twice in the fight

Weakened, most of his kit nulled, beaten
Still won.

"but Choso PBd him right before they fought"
That was already a fight and immediately Choso got f*ed up too, i really don't know what you mean by that being a decent contest that Choso outskilled Shibuya Yuji

Mate, do you even remember how that fight ends?

damn, my man hot af

AND WHY ARE YOU MENTIONING NAOYA, YUJI DIDNT EVEN HAD A PROLONGED FIGHT WITH NAOYA, AND THEN, NAOYA HAS DOZENS AND CONSISTENT LOW BIQ MOMENTS, LIKE, A DAMAGED SHIBUYA YUJI LASTED LONGER THAN NAOYA.

It is still a showing of adapting and outskilling

IM NOT SAYING THEY WONT, IT'S JUST THAT IT WONT BE EASY LIKE YOU'RE PROPOSING WITHOUT* ANY PROOF

I'm not proposing at all that it'll be easy, just that it is doable, so we agreeing?

WHY NOT?

DURING THE FIGHT BETWEEN TODO, YUJI VERSUS SUKUNA, SUKUNA ONLY HAD 2 FUNCTIONAL ARMS, THE OTHERS WERE CUT.

Nice of you to answer yourself, mate
See, that guy is a master of martial arts and CE usage, we can't say s* against that
To imagine his stronger version having to adapt to 2 cut arms, severe damage, countering an operation with 10+ of the most talented CE users of this age
and his weaker version in a 2v1 stand-off
Will be using the exact same fighting style...? That does not sit right with me when he's shown to be able to keep changing his fighting style for way less reasons

AND WHAT ANSWERS?

3F Sukuna shouldn't have the same fighting style as TFP had, and even if he has, by Choso outdoing 3F statswise, if he gets grabbed it is not instant death, as he can get himself freed, use his blood to deal heavy piercing damage unavoidable due to the distance and have Sukuna's RCT in even more overclock, just get switched with a random curse from far away...Or the last two combined

BRO. IT'S LITERALLY A NARRATOR STATEMENT. AND YES, PEOPLE LIKE GOJO AND SUKUNA CAN.

No, people like Gojo and Sukuna just have large reserves and in usual situations nobody that compares to them trying to face them (The only way for this to work is to put fellas from 1.5 arcs in front to try to win and the margin still should be 55~60% of win ratio), because when there is someone that compares to them, it is shown that incorrect usage of the reserve will lead to death (just remember 16F vs Gojo lol)
They can use more than once, they can use several times (if they have the CE to do so, which is not likely here for reasons i have spoken for long, now), but they can't use indefinetely like every other CE user.

BRO, YOU'RE JUST IGNORING CANON AND NARRATOR STATEMENTS.

Neither you nor anyone can bring up a scan or reference that someone can understand "3f is in six eyes level".

THAT'S NOT THE POINT? THE POINT IS THAT SUKUNA DID ALL THIS AND NEVER FELT ANYTHING EVEN WHILE FIGHTING, NO PAIN OR TIREDNESS.

Because of who he was fighting against needing no CE burning to answer like this fight will. He didnt feel a thing or needed to use large amounts of CE with RCT because the one he was fighting couldn't compare to him at all.

YES, TODO WHO COULD BARELY MOVE AND COULD BARELY STAND STILL AFTER GETTING A BRUISE ON THE CHEST AND LIKELY MINOR INTERNAL DAMAGE HAS BETTER STAMINA THAN A GUY THAT USED A DOMAIN, HEALED AN ENTIRE ARM, TOOK HIS OWN HEART OUT AND LAUGHED ABOUT IT.

That is absolutely not what happened to Todo, who sustained damage from a way stronger form of Sukuna, so yes.

SURE, TODO AND CHOSO HAS BETTER STAMINA. IF YOU REALLY THINK THIS, WHAT'S PROVING YOUR CLAIM?

Choso is the strongest part here and Todo could still fight after sustaining absurd damage from a stronger form of Sukuna, that is what base my claim of them maybe having a SLIGHTLY higher stamina than him

SO, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? JOGO HAVING MORE CE DOESNT MEAN HE'S STRONGER THAN SUKUNA.

On the way they said it, yes it can mean that pretty fine and it is how we treat it in the wiki

We really need to weigh every statement in the manga and their validity as there are too many statements that create weird circular retroactive scaling messes. This is one of them.

This is a very good thing to do in all instances of this fight, you're 100% correct

Thanks for this input, any other ones are more than welcome.

As @LaserPrecision's take on the last argument made a whole lot of sense to me, i wont answer thst too

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I am gonna vote the duo FRA

 

[AppleMaker]

Super Yujio Bros FRA

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Can I have a TL;DR of each side's wincons?

 

[Nonynho]

Can I have a TL;DR of each side's wincons?

Sure!

For Sukuna's side it's basically he does his thing and ggs both of them because he's amazing (which indeed he is, but not quite as much as we tend to think in this specific key)

For the bros duo, they have more than enough resources and skill to wear him out, deal with his amazing attacks and regen, and can eventually fatally wound Sukuna before he's able to properly deal with their stuff, mainly Boogie Woogie

no big news, i'm the only one defending the exquisite side of this and so far nobody fully agrees with me