• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Isshiki should not be 4-B

Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
123
Reaction score
98
Isshiki being 4-B was accepted here, but I do not understand how that happened, since it is highly inconsistent with the level established in the series. Isshiki physically scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack, and it is worth remembering that this Isshiki only had a few hours left to live.


The first inconsistency: Isshiki was nearly killed by a Kaguya who had not even absorbed the Divine Tree’s fruit yet, so how is a weakened Isshiki, who only had a few hours left to live, scaling to her strongest attack?


The second inconsistency: Momoshiki is accepted on the wiki as likely superior to Kaguya after she absorbed the fruit, yet he is immensely inferior to Isshiki, which makes no sense. The scaling indirectly becomes: pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki > Momoshiki > post-fruit Kaguya. The only thing used to place Isshiki and Momoshiki above Kaguya are statements that were proven false by the feats shown in the series.


From what I saw in the CRT that upgraded Isshiki, I think this is the main reason he scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack:



This could have been used for something, but that statement does not even exist anymore. It was replaced with:
This puts the validity of the old statement about Isshiki being the strongest enemy into question.

And at the end of the day, we would still need confirmation that Kodachi himself wrote this statement; otherwise, it would be comparable to editor notes in manga, which cannot be used as evidence.

The old quote was probably used just to create hype for the episode, rather than to express Kodachi's opinion; otherwise, it would still be there.

That only serves to physically scale Isshiki/Jigen above Naruto and Sasuke. It does not serve any purpose beyond that, so it is irrelevant here.


Momoshiki does not even know how strong Kaguya was after absorbing the fruit.

Final considerations: I do not think Isshiki or Momoshiki should even be considered superior to fruit-absorbed Kaguya, nor should they scale to her strongest attack. Naruto would also lose his 4-B rating, since it comes from scaling to Isshiki.
 
İsshiki caught off guard by kaguya and we know that kaguya has two or three duraneg attacks so its not an inconsistent to have issiki above her
Momoshiki also eats fruits, he even eat kinshiki and he become stronger than both naruto and sasuke on one on one.
We now sasuke can fight kaguya level threats so its not an inconsisdent either
Also momoshiki above kaguya in physicall abilities like strenght speed or dura and its so obvious.
İ dont know about isshiki scales to etso ,i just wait other supporters
 
Isshiki being 4-B was accepted here, but I do not understand how that happened, since it is highly inconsistent with the level established in the series. Isshiki physically scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack, and it is worth remembering that this Isshiki only had a few hours left to live.


The first inconsistency: Isshiki was nearly killed by a Kaguya who had not even absorbed the Divine Tree’s fruit yet, so how is a weakened Isshiki, who only had a few hours left to live, scaling to her strongest attack?
Off Guard, pretty standard thing if you know the series.
The second inconsistency: Momoshiki is accepted on the wiki as likely superior to Kaguya after she absorbed the fruit, yet he is immensely inferior to Isshiki, which makes no sense. The scaling indirectly becomes: pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki > Momoshiki > post-fruit Kaguya. The only thing used to place Isshiki and Momoshiki above Kaguya are statements that were proven false by the feats shown in the series.
Irrelevant as it jumps off of the previous point
From what I saw in the CRT that upgraded Isshiki, I think this is the main reason he scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack:
Not quite, Baryon mode makes more energy than anything seen before which includes TSO. This makes me question how much you actually read
This could have been used for something, but that statement does not even exist anymore. It was replaced with:

This puts the validity of the old statement about Isshiki being the strongest enemy into question.
We don’t even use that????? Again did you even read the upgrade CRT?
And at the end of the day, we would still need confirmation that Kodachi himself wrote this statement; otherwise, it would be comparable to editor notes in manga, which cannot be used as evidence.
Why?
The old quote was probably used just to create hype for the episode, rather than to express Kodachi's opinion; otherwise, it would still be there.
Unfounded
That only serves to physically scale Isshiki/Jigen above Naruto and Sasuke. It does not serve any purpose beyond that, so it is irrelevant here.
You don’t even know why they are scaling even
Momoshiki does not even know how strong Kaguya was after absorbing the fruit.

Final considerations: I do not think Isshiki or Momoshiki should even be considered superior to fruit-absorbed Kaguya, nor should they scale to her strongest attack. Naruto would also lose his 4-B rating, since it comes from scaling to Isshiki.
All of the points brought up stems from the kaguya daming ishikki stuff which is an off guard feat. Furthermore you don’t even know why they are scaling to 4B which puts into question what CRT you read.

Disagree
following
Hello oomf
 
Isshiki being 4-B was accepted here, but I do not understand how that happened, since it is highly inconsistent with the level established in the series. Isshiki physically scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack, and it is worth remembering that this Isshiki only had a few hours left to live.


The first inconsistency: Isshiki was nearly killed by a Kaguya who had not even absorbed the Divine Tree’s fruit yet, so how is a weakened Isshiki, who only had a few hours left to live, scaling to her strongest attack?
Your first question is explained perfectly in the manga, Isshiki was off guarded, it tells you that in the scan you sent, he didn't have enough energy at the time to embed a karma, so he uses his Shinjutsu to shrink his body and enter Jigen's brain, which eventually allowed him to regain enough energy to place a karma on him. This Isshiki that has scaling to Kaguya isn't a weakened one, its one post resurrection who's states that his body is brimming with power, and that the vessel can't contain it for more than a few days.
There's no inconsistency, you just didn't read the manga.
The second inconsistency: Momoshiki is accepted on the wiki as likely superior to Kaguya after she absorbed the fruit, yet he is immensely inferior to Isshiki, which makes no sense. The scaling indirectly becomes: pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki > Momoshiki > post-fruit Kaguya. The only thing used to place Isshiki and Momoshiki above Kaguya are statements that were proven false by the feats shown in the series.
This only works if you think Pre-Fruit Kaguya, who was btw being used as fodder to feed to the ten tails, is somehow superior to the guy who gave a much stronger Adult Naruto and Sasuke the fight of their lives in a weaker state. Kaguya needed multiple attacks from her Kekkei Mora to replicate what Jigen can do with a single kick.
From what I saw in the CRT that upgraded Isshiki, I think this is the main reason he scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack:
This could have been used for something, but that statement does not even exist anymore. It was replaced with:
This puts the validity of the old statement about Isshiki being the strongest enemy into question.

And at the end of the day, we would still need confirmation that Kodachi himself wrote this statement; otherwise, it would be comparable to editor notes in manga, which cannot be used as evidence.

The old quote was probably used just to create hype for the episode, rather than to express Kodachi's opinion; otherwise, it would still be there.
The statement does exist :
SuleVDD.png


Here's the raws if you'd like :
「殻」のアジトにて果心居士とジゲンの戦いが始まった。ジゲンが大筒木一族としての力を取り戻せば、その絶大なる力に対し成す術がなくなってしまう。そうなる前にジゲンのからだを乗っ取ったイッシキの本体を引きずり出し倒すため、綿密に策を練り、次々と術を仕掛ける居士。アマドが使う道具を通し、木ノ葉隠れの里でナルトたちがこの戦いを見守る中、居士の策が功を奏し、ついに最強最悪の敵・大筒木イッシキが姿を現した! 同時にナルトたちは、カワキの楔(カーマ)に起きた衝撃の現象を目にすることになる。

MTL :
The battle between Koshin the Hermit and Jigen began at the “Shell” hideout. If Jigen were to regain his power as a member of the Otsutsuki clan, there would be no way to stand against his overwhelming might. To prevent that from happening, the Hermit carefully devised a strategy and unleashed one technique after another, aiming to drag out and defeat Isshiki—the true entity who had taken control of Jigen’s body. Through the tools used by Amado, and as Naruto and the others watch the battle from the Hidden Leaf Village, Koshinshi’s plan succeeds, and finally, the strongest and most fearsome enemy—Otsutsuki Isshiki—makes his appearance! At the same time, Naruto and the others witness a shocking phenomenon occurring within Kawaki’s Kama.

Rest isn't worth responding to.
 
Aahhhhh okay so
The first inconsistency: Isshiki was nearly killed by a Kaguya who had not even absorbed the Divine Tree’s fruit yet, so how is a weakened Isshiki, who only had a few hours left to live, scaling to her strongest attack?
First of all, Isshiki doesn't scale to her strongest attacks full power. He scales to the amount of energy she puts into it while charging it per second.
He's actually scaling over 1000x below the ETSOs full yield (29 foe vs 150 kilofoe)

Secondly, offguard feats do not scale to characters full power. It is a very common trend in Naruto, fully consistent with the energy system, where durability heavily downgrades when a character is caught offguard. For example Obito who's weaker than Juubidara even with the Juubi itself can stab right through Madara TWICE when he catches him off guard.

So Kaguya does not scale to Isshiki same way fatigued base Sakura does not scale to Kaguya or fatigued base Obito does not scale to Juubidara.
The second inconsistency: Momoshiki is accepted on the wiki as likely superior to Kaguya after she absorbed the fruit, yet he is immensely inferior to Isshiki, which makes no sense. The scaling indirectly becomes: pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki > Momoshiki > post-fruit Kaguya. The only thing used to place Isshiki and Momoshiki above Kaguya are statements that were proven false by the feats shown in the series.
This is not a second inconsistency, you're just repeating the same argument. This entire thing falls apart when you take into consideration the fact that Kaguya does not scale to or above Isshiki
This could have been used for something, but that statement does not even exist anymore. It was replaced with:

This puts the validity of the old statement about Isshiki being the strongest enemy into question.
This is actually wrong. Sure the English page changed for some reason but the English page uses machine translations and even notes it may have errors.

The original Japanese website still has the old version of the statement that we currently use.
And at the end of the day, we would still need confirmation that Kodachi himself wrote this statement; otherwise, it would be comparable to editor notes in manga, which cannot be used as evidence.
It's an official statement on the official website that contains other canon information like databases and whatnot. Kodachi doesn't need to write it, nor is he the current writer of Boruto.
Final considerations: I do not think Isshiki or Momoshiki should even be considered superior to fruit-absorbed Kaguya, nor should they scale to her strongest attack. Naruto would also lose his 4-B rating, since it comes from scaling to Isshiki.
Honestly none of these are good or even new points, and are mostly based on your misunderstandings about the ratings.

You should have just asked in the discussion thread before jumping into CRTs.

So with that said I HEAVILY disagree with this CRT
 
was this really over a vs match?
Bro was salty because the character from his favorite verse got beaten by Isshiki LMAO

The most insane part is that he opens the thread with “since it’s highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” when SDS has the most fake Tier 4 feat and scaling ever in this wiki like bro be fr 😭😭
 
Bro was salty because the character from his favorite verse got beaten by Isshiki LMAO

The most insane part is that he opens the thread with “since it’s highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” when SDS has the most fake Tier 4 feat and scaling ever in this wiki like bro be fr 😭😭
Bro I just looked at Meliodas' profile and holy shit it doesn't explain 4-B at all lmfao

In fact like most of the stats just don't have scans or references because I guess explaining why the devil Class P is a thing is too hard. Or like any of the stats, half of AP lacks shit, half of Speed lacks shit, and besides those two there's nothing! I never thought that I'd see a verse with this blatant of worshipping of big number and big hax make dopamine jesus, quality of files was not cared about.
 
Bro I just looked at Meliodas' profile and holy shit it doesn't explain 4-B at all lmfao

In fact like most of the stats just don't have scans or references because I guess explaining why the devil Class P is a thing is too hard. Or like any of the stats, half of AP lacks shit, half of Speed lacks shit, and besides those two there's nothing! I never thought that I'd see a verse with this blatant of worshipping of big number and big hax make dopamine jesus, quality of files was not cared about.
They’re going back to their original Tier 6 home soon since that’s where the verse belongs, considering Tier 4 is “highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” as the OP says, don’t you worry.
 
They’re going back to their original Tier 6 home soon since that’s where the verse belongs, considering Tier 4 is “highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” as the OP says, don’t you worry.
Wowoow lets not derive this thread with other verses Scaling please 😭😭😭😭
And i ve seen that counter arguments are made and they explained pretty much Everything
So Asking this to getting closed i guess🤨?
 
Wowoow lets not derive this thread with other verses Scaling please 😭😭😭😭
And i ve seen that counter arguments are made and they explained pretty much Everything
So Asking this to getting closed i guess🤨?
It should, their argument hinged on the idea that kaguya was relative to Ishikki in any capacity which is just blatantly not true whatsoever.
 
I completely agree that Isshiki shouldn't scale to tier 4. His scale is based on a questionable justification that was made for Kaguya to scale to her own Gudoudama. And how does she somehow scale into the Gudoudama itself, and this site accepts that Base Momoshiki and Kinshiki are stronger than her, So they would also have to fully scale to level 4, and consequently the Kages and almost the entire Boruto cast... which would obviously be ridiculous.

But the OP's arguments are weak and clearly stem from personal frustration due to Meliodas' defeat in a VS topic, So I disagree with the arguments used.

And I also think that y'all who are trying to take down Naruto's tier 4 shouldn't be making a series of weak topics like this, because it could end up becoming a discussion rule.
 
I feel 1 sec is a lowball anyhow, these are super speed characters it’s stupid it’d take that long.

Isshiki should scale to the full value if he is > Kaguya because assigning 1s AP timeframes is whack and logistically dumb to apply to FTL characters.
 
Bro was salty because the character from his favorite verse got beaten by Isshiki LMAO

The most insane part is that he opens the thread with “since it’s highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” when SDS has the most fake Tier 4 feat and scaling ever in this wiki like bro be fr 😭😭
Bro I just looked at Meliodas' profile and holy shit it doesn't explain 4-B at all lmfao

In fact like most of the stats just don't have scans or references because I guess explaining why the devil Class P is a thing is too hard. Or like any of the stats, half of AP lacks shit, half of Speed lacks shit, and besides those two there's nothing! I never thought that I'd see a verse with this blatant of worshipping of big number and big hax make dopamine jesus, quality of files was not cared about.
I love when 2 fandoms have beef here. Makes things funnier to read.
 
Isshiki being 4-B was accepted here, but I do not understand how that happened, since it is highly inconsistent with the level established in the series. Isshiki physically scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack, and it is worth remembering that this Isshiki only had a few hours left to live.


The first inconsistency: Isshiki was nearly killed by a Kaguya who had not even absorbed the Divine Tree’s fruit yet, so how is a weakened Isshiki, who only had a few hours left to live, scaling to her strongest attack?


The second inconsistency: Momoshiki is accepted on the wiki as likely superior to Kaguya after she absorbed the fruit, yet he is immensely inferior to Isshiki, which makes no sense. The scaling indirectly becomes: pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki > Momoshiki > post-fruit Kaguya. The only thing used to place Isshiki and Momoshiki above Kaguya are statements that were proven false by the feats shown in the series.


From what I saw in the CRT that upgraded Isshiki, I think this is the main reason he scales to Kaguya’s strongest attack:




This could have been used for something, but that statement does not even exist anymore. It was replaced with:

This puts the validity of the old statement about Isshiki being the strongest enemy into question.

And at the end of the day, we would still need confirmation that Kodachi himself wrote this statement; otherwise, it would be comparable to editor notes in manga, which cannot be used as evidence.

The old quote was probably used just to create hype for the episode, rather than to express Kodachi's opinion; otherwise, it would still be there.


That only serves to physically scale Isshiki/Jigen above Naruto and Sasuke. It does not serve any purpose beyond that, so it is irrelevant here.



Momoshiki does not even know how strong Kaguya was after absorbing the fruit.

Final considerations: I do not think Isshiki or Momoshiki should even be considered superior to fruit-absorbed Kaguya, nor should they scale to her strongest attack. Naruto would also lose his 4-B rating, since it comes from scaling to Isshiki.
If you want to downgrade something at least prepare a decent thread.

Ngl you’re making shit points stacked on shit points stacked on misunderstanding things

Meliodas won the VS no need to do this
 
Bro was salty because the character from his favorite verse got beaten by Isshiki LMAO
Isshiki lost
The most insane part is that he opens the thread with “since it’s highly inconsistent with the level established in the series” when SDS has the most fake Tier 4 feat and scaling ever in this wiki like bro be fr 😭😭
Do something about it then
 
Yea the arguments ant that great. Tho I disagree with the off guard arguments since we know that isshiki's body has to be strong enough to hold his chakra at all times.Kaguya harming him would still scale her to him since his body can hold that chakra.
 
The OP just posted this and dipped lol..

While I'm not really a fan of the 4-B rating in general, the arguments used in the OP to disprove Isshiki scaling above Kaguya's Tier 4 rating is really, really bad. So I find myself disagreeing FRA.
I am also against the OP for the same reason.
 
was this really over a vs match?
Why do you assume that this CRT was made because of vs match? The main argument used by Isshiki supporters was his dura neg, which is not even addressed in the CRT.

“since it’s highly inconsistent with the level established in the series”
Your first question is explained perfectly in the manga, Isshiki was off guarded, it tells you that in the scan you sent, he didn't have enough energy at the time to embed a karma, so he uses his Shinjutsu to shrink his body and enter Jigen's brain, which eventually allowed him to regain enough energy to place a karma on him. This Isshiki that has scaling to Kaguya isn't a weakened one, its one post resurrection who's states that his body is brimming with power, and that the vessel can't contain it for more than a few days.
There's no inconsistency, you just didn't read the manga.

This only works if you think Pre-Fruit Kaguya, who was btw being used as fodder to feed to the ten tails, is somehow superior to the guy who gave a much stronger Adult Naruto and Sasuke the fight of their lives in a weaker state. Kaguya needed multiple attacks from her Kekkei Mora to replicate what Jigen can do with a single kick.
Actually, I considered that level inconsistent because I did not know the statement was legitimate, so something like base Kaguya > Isshiki > fruit-absorbed Kaguya seemed strange to me. Although I do not know how much less durable Naruto characters become when they are off guard, so I may have underestimated how weak they can get in that state.
The statement does exist :
SuleVDD.png


Here's the raws if you'd like :
「殻」のアジトにて果心居士とジゲンの戦いが始まった。ジゲンが大筒木一族としての力を取り戻せば、その絶大なる力に対し成す術がなくなってしまう。そうなる前にジゲンのからだを乗っ取ったイッシキの本体を引きずり出し倒すため、綿密に策を練り、次々と術を仕掛ける居士。アマドが使う道具を通し、木ノ葉隠れの里でナルトたちがこの戦いを見守る中、居士の策が功を奏し、ついに最強最悪の敵・大筒木イッシキが姿を現した! 同時にナルトたちは、カワキの楔(カーマ)に起きた衝撃の現象を目にすることになる。

MTL :
The battle between Koshin the Hermit and Jigen began at the “Shell” hideout. If Jigen were to regain his power as a member of the Otsutsuki clan, there would be no way to stand against his overwhelming might. To prevent that from happening, the Hermit carefully devised a strategy and unleashed one technique after another, aiming to drag out and defeat Isshiki—the true entity who had taken control of Jigen’s body. Through the tools used by Amado, and as Naruto and the others watch the battle from the Hidden Leaf Village, Koshinshi’s plan succeeds, and finally, the strongest and most fearsome enemy—Otsutsuki Isshiki—makes his appearance! At the same time, Naruto and the others witness a shocking phenomenon occurring within Kawaki’s Kama.

Rest isn't worth responding to.
I should have checked the Japanese version before making the CRT...


SDS has the most fake Tier 4 feat and scaling ever in this wiki like bro be
NNT has a creation feat that scales to physical stats more blatantly than most cases on the wiki, with a literal statement from the character saying he was using all of his magic to create a shield that was damaged by the Sins. In addition, a character possessing only a fragment of his power has a statement about destroying a 4-A dimension, which further supports the feats. I do not see how the verse could realistically go back to Tier 6, especially considering that there are multiple Tier 5 feats.
Unless you are referring to Archangel-level characters or lower; in that case, I agree that they should be downgraded to Tier 6.

The OP just posted this and dipped lol..

While I'm not really a fan of the 4-B rating in general, the arguments used in the OP to disprove Isshiki scaling above Kaguya's Tier 4 rating is really, really bad. So I find myself disagreeing FRA.
I am also against the OP for the same reason.
I believe this CRT can be closed, since my argument was built on the assumption that the Isshiki statement was fake, which was a mistake on my part.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top