Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[LIGHTYW]

Sukuna with his pillow fists? I doubt

PILLOW FISTS? BRO, SUKUNA NEARLY KNOCKED OUT GOJO IN CHAP 231

 

[LIGHTYW]

Mainly on account of Sukuna's superior build, ability to constantly use HWB, and the fact that damaging someone who casts Domain can break the Domain. Domain Amplification reduces the damage from Gojo's Curse Techniques, and Gojo's stamina will be worse if he chooses to keep casting Domain with brain RCT, while Sukuna's RCT is focused on much less taxing areas.

Definitely not a guaranteed win or anything, HWB breaking inside Unlimited Void is a death sentence, but making Sukuna unable to cast HWB is itself a difficult thing to do due to his limbs and mouths.

COMMON W FROM ZABAZAB

 

[GTsek]

true form sukuna? the perfect body with no better advantage? the physique that hailed him as the absolute strongest alongside his cursed tools?

pillow fists? COOOOPE

Sorry, I had forgotten that his true body is a 100000x multiplier.

But what I also find funny about this is that when the narrator mentions the qualities of the body and the reasons why it is perfect, He never mentions any physical prowess in terms of attributes, only stating that having two extra arms and a mouth helps immensely. because he can chant incantations endlessly through one extra mouth, And he can fight physically with two arms while the other two perform hand seals, etc., keeping his techniques always at their maximum release level...

 

[Rodriiogo]

Sukuna has no chance against Dabura (Blitz)

I'd say he does have a pretty good chance and wins most of the time lol. People act like Dabura goes for light-speed kicks every second which is just not in-character, if we are going out of character then Sukuna just uses a closed domain frame 1 and wins as Dabura needs to accelerate throughout the entire city to reach the high speeds to blitz him.

Which is another point,
Mahoraga's wheel had time to spin and Mahoraga had time to adapt before Dabura finished his run which would mean Sukuna would also be able to react and do something before Dabura finishes his acceleration. Of course multiple kicks would kill him due to constantly weakening him and he can't just keep fighting when getting constantly damaged or losing alot of CE but Sukuna does have ways of protecting himself from a singular kick through reinforcement in the same way he took a 120% Purple by only losing his arms.

I won't touch on the idea that Sukuna does react to light-speed stuff (which he does btw but it doesnt matter to what im tryna say here), narratively and what is way more likely to be Gege's intention is that, just like Sukuna VS Gojo, they both have a chance of beating each other depending on how the fight goes, specially when they are both equally as powerful and equal threats.

People are really running on "Blitz and gg" too much when that's not how JJK fights ever worked lol.

 

[Sus]

Sorry, I had forgotten that his true body is a 100000x multiplier.

did i say this

But what I also find funny about this is that when the narrator mentions the qualities of the body and the reasons why it is perfect, He never mentions any physical prowess in terms of attributes, only stating that having two extra arms and a mouth helps immensely. because he can chant incantations endlessly through one extra mouth, And he can fight physically with two arms while the other two perform hand seals, etc., keeping his techniques always at their maximum release level...

muscle mass is repeatedly stated to be a huge factor in reinforcement even by gojo himself

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Don't we currently scale the Lightspeed Kick to 6-C after that CRT finally ended?

 

[GTsek]

Mainly on account of Sukuna's superior build, ability to constantly use HWB, and the fact that damaging someone who casts Domain can break the Domain. Domain Amplification reduces the damage from Gojo's Curse Techniques, and Gojo's stamina will be worse if he chooses to keep casting Domain with brain RCT, while Sukuna's RCT is focused on much less taxing areas.

Definitely not a guaranteed win or anything, HWB breaking inside Unlimited Void is a death sentence, but making Sukuna unable to cast HWB is itself a difficult thing to do due to his limbs and mouths.

Firstly, does Sukuna era Heian have domain amplification? And secondly, can he use HWB and amplification at the same time? And third, do you really think that a HWB Can it tank Gojo's domain at maximum release just because it tanked Yuta and Yuji domain, who are MUCH weaker?

 

[Zabazab]

People are really running on "Blitz and gg" too much when that's not how JJK fights ever worked lol.

No one else can move at 90% the speed of light while using a move that can obliterate a partially adapted Makora.

 

[GTsek]

did i say this

muscle mass is repeatedly stated to be a huge factor in reinforcement even by gojo himself

Yes, but there's no way to quantify that.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Don't we currently scale the Lightspeed Kick to 6-C after that CRT finally ended?

Lightspeed kick scales unquantifiably above the 6-C calc (at least a one shot level), 6-C is Dabura's durability

 

[Sus]

Yes, but there's no way to quantify that.

but its easily superior to gojo's

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Lightspeed kick scales unquantifiably above the 6-C calc (at least a one shot level), 6-C is Dabura's durability

Yeah, my point was that I thought that it was agreed no one is actually scaling to Dabura aside from adapted Mahoraga since he's verbatim stated to be the strongest version of himself.

 

[Sus]

i love this wiki sometimes

 

[GTsek]

I'd say he does have a pretty good chance and wins most of the time lol. People act like Dabura goes for light-speed kicks every second which is just not in-character, if we are going out of character then Sukuna just uses a closed domain frame 1 and wins as Dabura needs to accelerate throughout the entire city to reach the high speeds to blitz him.

Which is another point,
Mahoraga's wheel had time to spin and Mahoraga had time to adapt before Dabura finished his run which would mean Sukuna would also be able to react and do something before Dabura finishes his acceleration. Of course multiple kicks would kill him due to constantly weakening him and he can't just keep fighting when getting constantly damaged or losing alot of CE but Sukuna does have ways of protecting himself from a singular kick through reinforcement in the same way he took a 120% Purple by only losing his arms.

I won't touch on the idea that Sukuna does react to light-speed stuff (which he does btw but it doesnt matter to what im tryna say here), narratively and what is way more likely to be Gege's intention is that, just like Sukuna VS Gojo, they both have a chance of beating each other depending on how the fight goes, specially when they are both equally as powerful and equal threats.

People are really running on "Blitz and gg" too much when that's not how JJK fights ever worked lol.

Well, I don't think we consider the characters' personalities when we discuss this, but if that's the case, we saw that Dabura, in the first nanosecond of the fight, already overwhelmed Mahoraga with massive attacks, So... Sukuna doesn't react to light (even though his profiles on the site say he does).

 

[Sus]

dabura aint one shotting sukuna yall hilarious

 

[Rodriiogo]

No one else can move at 90% the speed of light

Thanks for the strawman. Not what I said. I never claimed Sukuna will react to when Dabura is near light-speed if you actually bothered to read how I said he'd react BEFORE his acceleration ends as he needs to go around the city.

while using a move that can obliterate a partially adapted Makora.

Cleave could literally do that if Mahoraga hadn't adapted to slashing attacks as a whole, a REGULAR WEAKENED PURPLE also evaporated an already BASICALLY FULLY ADAPTED to Gojo Mahoraga yet it didnt kill Sukuna. I swear can people start actually reading how Mahoraga works instead of going on "hes this much adapted so it means hes this much strong" that's not how it works. Mahoraga was adapted to Black flashes from Gojo and was STILL weaker than a WEAKENED Sukuna.

Yeah, my point was that I thought that it was agreed no one is actually scaling to Dabura aside from adapted Mahoraga since he's verbatim stated to be the strongest version of himself.

"Agreed" no it was just mods larping the series really, the current TL is something literally just... wrong. He did not reinforce his body ever and he did not get "stronger". Regardless, crossverse scaling is irrelevant when talking about in-verse scaling.

Well, I don't think we consider the characters' personalities when we discuss this, but if that's the case, we saw that Dabura, in the first nanosecond of the fight, already overwhelmed Mahoraga with massive attacks, So... Sukuna doesn't react to light (even though his profiles on the site say he does).

Sukuna does react to lightspeed (on-screen), but I do wanna say the fact that people (not talking about you in this case cause I hope you dont think this) genuinely think Gege intended Dabura to be a Sukuna level threat but actually meant that he will blitz and one shot Sukuna in the first frame of the fight proves how powerscaling brainrotted people's brains.

 

[GTsek]

but its easily superior to gojo's

Although I disagree due to a lack of feats, Gojo has speed, strength, and basically all physical aspects amplified by the Limitless, So yes, Sukuna in teory could have a superior physique to Gojo when we don't consider Limitless.

 

[Zabazab]

Firstly, does Sukuna era Heian have domain amplification? And secondly, can he use HWB and amplification at the same time? And third, do you really think that a HWB Can it tank Gojo's domain at maximum release just because it tanked Yuta and Yuji domain, who are MUCH weaker?

Firstly, idk. I didn't think it was specifically Heian Sukuna, just fully incarnated. But I always thought he learned from Kenjaku.

The limitation for Domain Amplification is that you can't use your Innate Technique at the same time as it, so HWB should be fine to use.

And yes? Unlimited Void is a complex effect, it has no "AP", the sure-hit is never overpowering any HWB or Simple Domain, let alone Ryōmen Sukuna's continuous chanting + hand seals.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well have fun with that eventual CRT trying to scale Gojo and Sukuna to Dabura.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Well have fun with that eventual CRT trying to scale Gojo and Sukuna to Dabura.

Regardless, crossverse scaling is irrelevant when talking about in-verse scaling.

Even if you believe in the nonsense the mods pushed, it's irrelevant.

 

[GTsek]

adapted Mahoraga since he's verbatim stated to be the strongest version of himself.

This statement only applies to Mahoraga at the end of the battle, we see the wheel spin like never before, multiple times. Well, nobody has any facts against this Mahoraga.

Sukuna does react to lightspeed (on-screen), but I do wanna say the fact that people (not talking about you in this case cause I hope you dont think this) genuinely think Gege intended Dabura to be a Sukuna level threat but actually meant that he will blitz and one shot Sukuna in the first frame of the fight proves how powerscaling brainrotted people's brains.

Well, I think that even considering that he does react to light, I don't believe he's possible to dodge attacks with large area or multiple attacks.

 

[Zabazab]

react BEFORE his acceleration ends as he needs to go around the city.

Dabura at 0.01% SoL still statues Sukuna.

Cleave could literally do that if Mahoraga hadn't adapted

Well Makora had adapted and still got reduced to a chunk of meat by the kick. Sukuna would get turned into a shadow. I cannot stress enough that Dabura in JJK is practically the equivalent of a Disgaea character in the world of Dragon Quest. The only reason Gojo might stand a chance is because of a combination of offensive hax, defensive hax, and Dabura not having much experience.

 

[LIGHTYW]

JJK DOWNPLAYERS...

 

[Rodriiogo]

Well, I think that even considering that he does react to light, I don't believe he's possible to dodge attacks with large area or multiple attacks.

Oh that's not what I was saying, I was saying he would SURVIVE a singular light-speed kick, in the same way he SURVIVES a 120% Hollow purple despite not even scaling to regular red or blue. Cursed Energy Reinforcement allows characters to survive stuff way above their paygrade (Sukuna is not even the only example with stuff like Todo tanking a Black Flash from Mahito being another or people survive literal one shot taps from Mahito (Idle Transfiguration) by subconsciously protecting the soul)

Sukuna would not dodge or straight up tank it, he'd be damaged by it 100%, there's no way he wouldn't, but he would just be in a situation like he was in the beginning of the Gojo fight where he lost his arms for example, he'd be weakened and regen back.

The fact that Gege made Dabura a non-elite fighter just helps even more as for another elite sorcerer like Sukuna, he'd be able to predict the attack before it even happens and instinctively block it just like Todo for example (he can do it regularly but that's if you believe he got that much off-guarded or almost blitzed)

Sukuna doesn't tank it, he doesn't dodge it, but he will survive.

Dabura at 0.01% SoL still statues Sukuna.

0 evidence, Headcanon and ignoring the story, you can't even tell me at what time Dabura was at "0.01% SoL" because you know you're just bullshitting.

Well Makora had adapted and still got reduced to a chunk of meat by the kick.

Mahoraga had just slightly adapted enough to not literally die. He wasn't fully adapted to his physicals/acceleration power because prior to that, if you actually read the fight, you'd understand Dabura not once used Cursed Energy his body and actually went at Mahoraga physically, did you get that? If you did you would now understand WHY the attack still damage Mahoraga alot in the same way that powerful cleaves were still cutting Mahoraga even after he adapted to slashing attacks, the cleave literally cut him in two and had him on the ground for a good time.

Sukuna would get turned into a shadow. I cannot stress enough that Dabura in JJK is practically the equivalent of a Disgaea character in the world of Dragon Quest. The only reason Gojo might stand a chance is because of a combination of offensive hax, defensive hax, and Dabura not having much experience.

W headcanon. When will you bring some actual evidence and reading comprehension to the table?

 

[GTsek]

Firstly, idk. I didn't think it was specifically Heian Sukuna, just fully incarnated. But I always thought he learned from Kenjaku.

Fair.

The limitation for Domain Amplification is that you can't use your Innate Technique at the same time as it, so HWB should be fine to use.

You're mistaken, Gege was asked why Sukuna used HWB instead of amplification against Yuji's domain, If he had been permitted to use both at the same time, he would have said so, but he didn't, he only said that amplification might not completely weaken the attack, so Sukuna opted for HWB.

And yes? Unlimited Void is a complex effect, it has no "AP", the sure-hit is never overpowering any HWB or Simple Domain, let alone Ryōmen Sukuna's continuous chanting + hand seals

You know that's not how it works, right? There's the concept of "politeness/refinement" of domains, which directly influences which one will override the other. Besides, energy production of a domain is much larger than that of HWB and Simple Domain, Even if Sukuna manages to compensate for this with seals, it's not enough against Gojo, after all, Sukuna needed a pact to reduce the standard range of 200m in exchange for more potency to break Gojo's domain from the outside, right in their first domain battle. It's impossible for Sukuna's HWB to be on the same level as his domain.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I had a dream where I commented here and the site got hacked and doxxed everyone. So I'm commenting here. I hope the last part doesn't happen, except with Arkenis, BiggestOpp and maybe elde

 

[GTsek]

Oh that's not what I was saying, I was saying he would SURVIVE a singular light-speed kick, in the same way he SURVIVES a 120% Hollow purple despite not even scaling to regular red or blue. Cursed Energy Reinforcement allows characters to survive stuff way above their paygrade (Sukuna is not even the only example with stuff like Todo tanking a Black Flash from Mahito being another or people survive literal one shot taps from Mahito (Idle Transfiguration) by subconsciously protecting the soul)

Sukuna would not dodge or straight up tank it, he'd be damaged by it 100%, there's no way he wouldn't, but he would just be in a situation like he was in the beginning of the Gojo fight where he lost his arms for example, he'd be weakened and regen back.

The fact that Gege made Dabura a non-elite fighter just helps even more as for another elite sorcerer like Sukuna, he'd be able to predict the attack before it even happens and instinctively block it just like Todo for example (he can do it regularly but that's if you believe he got that much off-guarded or almost blitzed)

Sukuna doesn't tank it, he doesn't dodge it, but he will survive.

Well, my problem with this is that the first purple one was weakened by distance, and in that case and the unlimited purple one, Sukuna doesn't receive even 1% of the total energy of the attack, but in Dabura's kick, he would receive the full energy on impact, so probably at least the upper part of him would be destroyed.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Well, my problem with this is that the first purple one was weakened by distance

We do have an exact % to the purple that Sukuna took though?
It was initially at 200%:

Sukuna notes that it was at over 120% when it reaches him:

It's said that Sukuna only sensed purple at the very last moment before it hit him:

So the purple that Sukuna took was at ~120%, which is beyond a regular purple (which would make it in-verse not only similar but superior to the kick's potency)
Sukuna even implies that if they both weren't weakened, he'd be able to survive a 100% purple at a short distance in the same way to make this consistent (he couldn't at this point since he was more weakened than Gojo):

 

[Arkenis]

Why are there no modulo characters on the main site yet

I basically finished Tsurugu I believe just ap is an issue.

 

[Zabazab]

0 evidence, Headcanon and ignoring the story, you can't even tell me at what time Dabura was at "0.01% SoL" because you know you're just bullshitting.

Around the time Dabura blitzed Makora so hard that he was already behind the shikigami before it noticed.

Mahoraga had just slightly adapted enough to not literally die. He wasn't fully adapted to his physicals/acceleration power because prior to that, if you actually read the fight, you'd understand Dabura not once used Cursed Energy his body and actually went at Mahoraga physically, did you get that? If you did you would now understand WHY the attack still damage Mahoraga alot in the same way that powerful cleaves were still cutting Mahoraga even after he adapted to slashing attacks, the cleave literally cut him in two and had him on the ground for a good time.

Makora adapts both defensively and offensively. It also got a chance to adapt to sublight force when it lost its arm, and adapting to brute force is significantly faster than adapting to curse techniques. I don't have any idea what you mean with Dabura "not using Cursed Energy", this paragraph is overall quite hard to parse, you should calm down and write more clearly.

W headcanon.

90% of power scaling is headcanon. This is a ridiculous way of arguing, there is no canon answer to a fight between two characters who lived nearly a century apart. If you want evidence, I'd point to Sukuna's tier 7 durability against Dabura's tier 6 AP.

You're also being incredibly childish by repeatedly accusing me of not reading just for the sin of disagreeing with you. Don't do that.

Gege was asked

If there is a Q&A from Gege where he says DA and HWB are incompatible, then okay.

You know that's not how it works, right?

I don't agree. The evidence you presented was more examples of AP vs Durability (Malevolent Shrine's sure-hit vs Unlimited Void's Barrier). Unlimited Void cannot destroy objects or barriers. Especially not Sukuna, who constantly refreshes HWB, meaning it cannot ever be overpowered.

 

[Arkenis]

Well, I don't think we consider the characters' personalities when we discuss this, but if that's the case, we saw that Dabura, in the first nanosecond of the fight, already overwhelmed Mahoraga with massive attacks, So... Sukuna doesn't react to light (even though his profiles on the site say he does).

We consider everything.

 

[Sus]

You're mistaken, Gege was asked why Sukuna used HWB instead of amplification against Yuji's domain, If he had been permitted to use both at the same time, he would have said so, but he didn't, he only said that amplification might not completely weaken the attack, so Sukuna opted for HWB.

can i see

 

[Sus]

domain amplification doesn't work against domain sure hits why would sukuna use it instead of HWB?

 

[WhydoIneedtosignupintwoplaces]

We do have an exact % to the purple that Sukuna took though?
It was initially at 200%:

Sukuna notes that it was at over 120% when it reaches him:

It's said that Sukuna only sensed purple at the very last moment before it hit him:

So the purple that Sukuna took was at ~120%, which is beyond a regular purple (which would make it in-verse not only similar but superior to the kick's potency)
Sukuna even implies that if they both weren't weakened, he'd be able to survive a 100% purple at a short distance in the same way to make this consistent (he couldn't at this point since he was more weakened than Gojo):

Is there a reason you're ignoring or at least not noting the "under 4km" part? It's clear that purple loses damage/energy/whatever the longer it's traveled if that's being pointed out.

 

[Arkenis]

, I'd point to Sukuna's tier 7 durability against Dabura's tier 6 AP.

Yeah but since we know Gege meant Sukuna could fight Dabura and they are actually both special grade means Sukuna is actually 6-C and can tank Dabura's attacks. Ignore speed cuz obviously when Gege wrote JJK he didn't know about the Terrell-Penrose effect, and didn't show Sukuna could move at such speeds but we all know Sukuna can move at those speeds cuz Gege said Dabura was special grade on Sukuna's level. Furthermore Sukuna's already more skilled so he'd beat Dabura in that aspect anyway.

 

[Electronic74947]

Why do people keep saying calamity grade. Since when was that a thing

Sounds cool

 

[Rodriiogo]

Around the time Dabura blitzed Makora so hard that he was already behind the shikigami before it noticed.

1. Proof that was 1% SoL
2. Proof that Mahoraga was Sukuna's speed, I won't even explain how Mahoraga works cause you should know.
3. Convinently left out the fact I already said multiple times that Mahoraga's wheel spins and he has time to adapt before Dabura finished the acceleration which is the whole point that Sukuna would react BEFORE he ends the acceleration. You sure love manipulating the arguments in your favor huh?

Makora adapts both defensively and offensively. It also got a chance to adapt to sublight force when it lost its arm, and adapting to brute force is significantly faster than adapting to curse techniques. I don't have any idea what you mean with Dabura "not using Cursed Energy", this paragraph is overall quite hard to parse, you should calm down and write more clearly.

It barely adapted. A single wheel spin isn't enough for it to fully adapt to attacks which is why he still got vaporized in the same way that he adapted to cleave but then the moment Sukuna used cleaves from his domain, Mahoraga couldn't even react or move towards them

90% of power scaling is headcanon.

100% of power scaling is making arguments to defend your point which you fail to do and decide to just headcanon with 0 evidence. Get the difference?

This is a ridiculous way of arguing, there is no canon answer to a fight between two characters who lived nearly a century apart. If you want evidence, I'd point to Sukuna's tier 7 durability against Dabura's tier 6 AP.

This is not only appealing to a false authority (treating VSBW mods like gospel, crine) but also shows your lack of ability to defend your points, which proves my point that you are working on head-canons and vibe scaling.

Is there a reason you're ignoring or at least not noting the "under 4km" part? It's clear that purple loses damage/energy/whatever the longer it's traveled if that's being pointed out.

I did agree it lost energy...? Do you not see the part where I said it was initially at 200% and ended at 120% when near Sukuna? That is losing energy.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I had a dream where I commented here and the site got hacked and doxxed everyone. So I'm commenting here. I hope the last part doesn't happen, except with Arkenis, BiggestOpp and maybe elde

What did I do,

 

[Qurbonboev]

Working on some scaling chains for low and mid tiers.
How does it looks like?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Qurbonboev/JJKLowandMidtiersScaling

So... Sukuna doesn't react to light (even though his profiles on the site say he does).

Sukuna on site has 0.13c reactions. And 0.13c vs SoL is almost a blitz

Oh that's not what I was saying, I was saying he would SURVIVE a singular light-speed kick, in the same way he SURVIVES a 120% Hollow purple despite not even scaling to regular red or blue. Cursed Energy Reinforcement allows characters to survive stuff way above their paygrade

How good is Sukuna heat resistance, btw

 

[GTsek]

I don't agree. The evidence you presented was more examples of AP vs Durability (Malevolent Shrine's sure-hit vs Unlimited Void's Barrier). Unlimited Void cannot destroy objects or barriers. Especially not Sukuna, who constantly refreshes HWB, meaning it cannot ever be overpowered

I think you misunderstood my comment. It's literally mentioned in the series that the output of a domain is greater than that of a simple domain and HWB, these techniques cannot sustain for very long within a domain because the energy difference between them is too great, Sukuna can compensate for this with seals, but only against domains like Yuta's (who didn't have the technique activated all the time) And Yuji (which was literally his first use), but that wouldn't be possible against Gojo, as that would be the same as saying that Sukuna's HWB energy output is equivalent that of his own domain, which we know is not true.