High 3A New 52 Doomsday + Other High 3A Heralds Upgrade For New 52 Heralds

[Bimgus8010]

Doomsday broke the phantom zone with his punches , destabilizing the the entire zone (batman/superman 2013 issue 11). The cover of the issue literally says new 52 so this should scale to new 52 doomsday

This would be a high 3A feat because the phantom zone is already accepted on this site as an anti universe that is consistently infinite in size
this would in turn affect other new 52 heralds 4B scalings to change to high 3A like

-New 52 superman cuz he fought doomy and ripped him apart (superman doomed 2014)

-Post flashpoint batman's hellbat and preptime key cuz :

• with the hellbat, he damaged post flashpoint darkseid, even tanking blows from him when new 52 supes could not (batman and robin 2011 issue 37)
• made a justice buster suit that can take a punch from superman, tank wonder woman and punch her back and restraining aquaman (batman endgame)

-Post flashpoint wonder woman's 4B keys due to her being able to pierce doomsday and tank his blows (superman doomed 2014)

-Post flashpoint aquaman 4B key due to him being able to damage superman and wonder woman (justice league 2011 issue 16)

-New 52 hal jordan 4B key due to him being already accepted to be comparable to superman

-Post flashpoint supergirl 4B key because punch Superman through the Great Wall of China (supergirl 2011 issue 2)

-Post flashpoint flash 4B key because he can tank a knee from supergirl while smiling (supergirl 2011 issue 16)

-Post flashpoint orion 4B keys cuz he has Damaged and knocked down superman and overpowering hal jordan with one arm(superman 2011 issue 20 and green lantern 2011 issue 35)


Theres probably more characters that would be upscaled to high 3A for new 52 but i cant remember all of them lol

 

[Hecky2222]

 

[Ozcantabak]

following

 

[Hellbeast]

This should also be noted as Non-Physical Interaction for Doomsday and potential limited space-time manipulation and dimensions travel since Doomsday can just punch through dimensional walls

 

[AyOgUyS]

This should also be noted as Non-Physical Interaction for Doomsday and potential limited space-time manipulation and dimensions travel since Doomsday can just punch through dimensional walls

^

 

[AyOgUyS]

anyway the upgrade looks good, i agree

 

[Rex_Eckles]

As long as it's accepted that the Flashpoint didn't change the nature of the Phantom Zone (not sure why it would've), I'm fine with this.

 

[Hecky2222]

As long as it's accepted that the Flashpoint didn't change the nature of the Phantom Zone (not sure why it would've)

P sure if we assumed Flashpoint changed nature of PZ, Rebirth Sups wouldn't got L2-C via PZ shaking

 

[AyOgUyS]

P sure if we assumed Flashpoint changed nature of PZ, Rebirth Sups wouldn't got L2-C via PZ shaking

I’m still a firm believer that the Supes PZ shaking feat is 1-A but I suppose I can settle for High 3-A for now (tho maybe I’m just biased)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[FroYoSans]

Post flashpoint flash 4B key because he can tank a knee from supergirl while smiling (supergirl 2011 issue 16)

I love the Flash but this is an incredibly disingenuous and blatantly untrue description of what just happened. He straight up said if he hadn't vibrated her knee would be in his head, he was still hit but clearly not full force

And this:

with the hellbat, he damaged post flashpoint darkseid, even tanking blows from him when new 52 supes could not (batman and robin 2011 issue 37)

While yes the Hellbat should be increased, why are you adding that New 52 Superman couldn't when:
A. The attacks were entirely different, Supes was hit with an Omega Beam and Hellbat was landed on
B. This is very very early like beginning of New 52 Supes and we've seen him fight Darkseid after this

 

[Bimgus8010]

I love the Flash but this is an incredibly disingenuous and blatantly untrue description of what just happened. He straight up said if he hadn't vibrated her knee would be in his head, he was still hit but clearly not full force

And this:

While yes the Hellbat should be increased, why are you adding that New 52 Superman couldn't when:
A. The attacks were entirely different, Supes was hit with an Omega Beam and Hellbat was landed on
B. This is very very early like beginning of New 52 Supes and we've seen him fight Darkseid after this

-do new 52 omega beams have different ap than darkseid's punches and dura?

- https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/v...ellbat9.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170227082222

Batman hellbat armor already has it accepted on his page to be able to absorb omega beams and redirect it back to darkseid

-its batman, he's like narratively above the justice league with preptime and author glazing

 

[FroYoSans]

-do new 52 omega beams have different ap than darkseid's punches and dura?

- https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/v...ellbat9.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170227082222

Batman hellbat armor already has it accepted on his page to be able to absorb omega beams and redirect it back to darkseid

-its batman, he's like narratively above the justice league with preptime and author glazing

That scan proved nothing considering I'm going off of what Barry himself said.

...considering Darkseid's Omega Beams function differently depending on the version and intensity I'd say almost certainly. Especially since earlier in that run when Darkseid invaded Superman got up no problem but got no-diffed by Omega Beams (which once again is disingenuous reasoning given its a very early New 52 Superman)

That Is literally energy absorption and redirection that has nothing to do with tanking

That's just not good reasoning, "oh it's Batman so he just gaps the League narratively"

 

[Bimgus8010]

That scan proved nothing considering I'm going off of what Barry himself said.

...considering Darkseid's Omega Beams function differently depending on the version and intensity I'd say almost certainly. Especially since earlier in that run when Darkseid invaded Superman got up no problem but got no-diffed by Omega Beams (which once again is disingenuous reasoning given its a very early New 52 Superman)

That Is literally energy absorption and redirection that has nothing to do with tanking

That's just not good reasoning, "oh it's Batman so he just gaps the League narratively"

It's already accepted for his omega beams to be in the same ap as his punches/kicks

Darkseid (Post-Flashpoint)

Darkseid is one of the most powerful New Gods and the tyrannical ruler of Apokolips, an archetypal world beyond the boundaries of time and space. His everlasting goal is the utter domination and enslavement of all life in creation, when all is ordered according to his will. Darkseid was formerly...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's also already accepted for flash new 52 page to be able to contend with superman and supergirl

Flash (Post-Flashpoint)

Bartholomew Henry Allen, or better known as Barry Allen, is the second Flash, one of DC's most iconic superheroes. Barry was a single child, born to Henry Allen and Nora Allen. Barry would face tragedy at a young age when his mother was murdered by an unknown man. His father would then be...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[FroYoSans]

It's already accepted for his omega beams to be in the same ap as his punches/kicks

Fair enough

It's also already accepted for flash new 52 page to be able to contend with superman and supergirl

I'm aware, I'm saying your argumentation specifically was disingenuous and he could contend with her, that was just the comic, but he wasn't like tanking her knee

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Unless Doomsday actually destroyed the entire Phantom Zone, this does not at all seem reliable to scale from.

 

[FroYoSans]

Unless Doomsday actually destroyed the entire Phantom Zone, this does not at all seem reliable to scale from.

I mean that's fair however that seems like disingenuous reasoning given DC isn't going to just destroy one of their staples. So while I can definitely see the disagreement for sure, I think instead you should give how much Doomsday would need to actually effect the Phantom Zone for this to scale. Further supporting this argument is Doomsday being referred to as his most evolved mind you he hasnt been seen in the New 52 before this, merely trapped in the Phantom Zone. One could argue it even further since Doomsday created a Crack in the Phantom Zone so large that people on Earth could open it and normally the Phantom Zone is seperate from the physical plane, hence the need for a projector that opens a portal there.

But the hesitancy makes sense, ive seen reluctance in general to upgrade the New 52 past 4B before

 

[Bimgus8010]

Unless Doomsday actually destroyed the entire Phantom Zone, this does not at all seem reliable to scale from.

You don't need to specifically destroy something to scale to it

Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system the VS Battles Wiki utilizes to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats and the varying scopes that they can affect or create/destroy. Though Destructive...

vsbattles.fandom.com

You can simply affect an infinite 3D structure, like warping or distortion of an entire structure to scale to said structure

In this case, how it's being affected is a destabilizing of an entire realm

 

[Planck69]

Unless Doomsday actually destroyed the entire Phantom Zone, this does not at all seem reliable to scale from.

Shaking or significantly affecting an infinite structure is enough to scale to it. Whether or not this rating is actually consistent with their showings in this era is one thing, and not something I can answer, but the feat itself should be valid.

 

[Antvasima]

I did not see any reliable proof, or even a mention, of significantly affecting an entire infinite structure within the two scanned pages that I saw when I clicked on the initial Imgur link either.

 

[Hecky2222]

I did not see any reliable proof, or even a mention, of significantly affecting an entire infinite structure within the two scanned pages that I saw when I clicked on the initial Imgur link either.

Do you think you can punch through whole observable universe or Infinite Areas with finite AP?

At best you can say it might be outlier for New 52. I think it is actually strange to assume you can punch infinite area without having this level potency



@Planck69 Scan itself self-evident, it says Doomsday broke Phantom Zone by punches and destabilized it. I don't think you can do it with finite AP.

@Antvasima but if you think it is not consistent for New 52 and might be outlier then sure, since they might have anti feats for it. I can see your point here

 

[Antvasima]

Shattering a barrier that is part of the inner part of Phantom Zone is not remotely the same thing as breaking all of it.

I would greatly appreciate if everybody in our community permanently stop twisting mere statements into the most hyperbolic interpretation imaginable in order to wank their favourite characters as much as possible.

We are supposed to strive for accuracy and reliability, not enormous exaggeration.

 

[Hecky2222]

Shattering a barrier that is part of the inner part of Phantom Zone is not remotely the same thing as breaking all of it.

Yea but scan tells by breaking + shattering he destabilized Phantom Zone, I don't think you can destabilize infinite area without significantly affecting it.

I would greatly appreciate if everybody in our community permanently stop twisting mere statements into the most hyperbolic interpretation imaginable in order to wank their favourite characters as much as possible.

This is just questioning feat if you think we are wanking what I have said this I am not saying we should scale to it, I am saying feat itself valid but it probably might be outlier to scale

@Antvasima but if you think it is not consistent for New 52 and might be outlier then sure, since they might have anti feats for it. I can see your point here

I realistically don't see this conversation going anywhere. Can you please pin @Qawsedf234 and @Elizio33, they are knowledgeable about New 52 and Qawsedf knows Tier 3-2 well.

 

[Hecky2222]

Just discussed feat validity with @Emirp sumitpo off-site, he said feat itself valid, but outlier for consistent scaling in New 52 cuz they are consistent Tier 4 at best. Plus thread is scaling everyone based on single feat, ignoring fact DC characters varies at Attacking Potency

I disagree with thread, ig if feat isn't considered outlier only Doomsday and Superman should scale to it, but at peak. I disagree with notion everyone should chainscale to one feat.

 

[Bimgus8010]

Just discussed feat validity with @Emirp sumitpo off-site, he said feat itself valid, but outlier for consistent scaling in New 52 cuz they are consistent Tier 4 at best. Plus thread is scaling everyone based on single feat, ignoring fact DC characters varies at Attacking Potency

I disagree with thread, ig if feat isn't considered outlier only Doomsday and Superman should scale to it, but at peak. I disagree with notion everyone should chainscale to one feat.

Mongul in this comic actually survived a fight against doomsday in the phantom zone

Previously and still in the same comic, it is noted that his grip or strength is comparable to that of emanation darkseid when superman fought him, both damaging and taking blows from mongul



So anyone scaling to emanation darkseid or mongul can be scaled to high 3A

 

[Rgerdeena]

Mongul in this comic actually survived a fight against doomsday in the phantom zone

Surviving a fight with someone offscreen should not be a basis for scaling to them, for all we know doomsday one shot him and just didn’t feel like killing him

 

[Bimgus8010]

Surviving a fight with someone offscreen should not be a basis for scaling to them, for all we know doomsday one shot him and just didn’t feel like killing him

Well there's also like instances where new 52 supes straight up performs 2A feats
Like damaging god machine brainiac


God of strength superman damaging the anti life equation anti monitor

With wonder woman being able to lasso him

 

[Rgerdeena]

Well there's also like instances where new 52 supes straight up performs 2A feats
Like damaging god machine brainiac


God of strength superman damaging the anti life equation anti monitor

With wonder woman being able to lasso him

Isn’t this thread arguing for high 3-A?, why are you bringing up 2-A feats, also Wonder Woman lassoing up god of strength Superman is just LS for her lasso, not her own AP

 

[Bimgus8010]

Isn’t this thread arguing for high 3-A?, why are you bringing up 2-A feats, also Wonder Woman lassoing up god of strength Superman is just LS for her lasso, not her own AP

I was thinking of showing 2A feats would help support the single high 3A feat

Wonder woman also bled supes with her sword

Then again, I found more 2A feats than high 3A in new 52, it would be better if I just change the thread

Add in more sources to become a straight up 2A upgrade thread

 

[Rgerdeena]

I was thinking of showing 2A feats would help support the single high 3A feat

That’s not how that works, 3-A or even 3-B feats can support high 3-A, a 2-A feat can’t be support for high 3-A because the 2-A feat contradicts them being only high 3-A

Wonder woman also bled supes with her sword

Her sword has durability negation

Then again, I found more 2A feats than high 3A in new 52, it would be better if I just change the thread

Add in more sources to become a straight up 2A upgrade thread

Eh, a new thread would probably be better since you’d be changing literally everything that’s being proposed other then the fact that it’s an AP upgrade

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Wonder Woman takes a hit from GoS Supes, and regular Supes straight up punts GoS Supes away.
Scaling seems consistent enough.