Classroom Of The Elite: Intel Upgrades/Downgrades + More Abilities

[XxZetsuxX]

This CRT is simple, just fixing intel ratings

Arisu;

• Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius (Mentally visualized an entire island of 35,000,000 m^2, and actively tracked between 400 and 500 students on the island. Over the course of a few minutes she ran mental simulations to calculate the paths students were taking, their current locations, and objectives by analyzing their behavior and personalities while also considering the environment and the weather. She directed the 2nd year students all at once and accurately enough to block 1st years from completing tasks and intercepted Housen at the exact moment he ran into Ayanokouji. She is stated to be above all the white room instructors in chess who are geniuses and the top of the world.)

This should warrant Analytical prediction and Information analysis for Arisu (although it's not combat applicable)
And also Accelerated Development because of the grandmaster as a kid feat (Training: Intelligence and Other)
I'm also not sure if this can warrant Photographic Memory

This would also scale to Takuya and Ichika due to them being white roomers and having better cognition than her

Ibuki;

• Intelligence: Average (Has no notable feats)

Nanase and Riku are gifted

This also implies that Nanase and Riku will lose their genius intelligence ability in their power and ability section

---

Ayanokouji;

Paralysis Inducement - (Paralyzed Nagumo with fear temporarely due to his willpower)

Resistence to;

Analytical Prediction & Information Analysis (During his confrontation with Tsukishiro and Shiba, Ayanokōji demonstrated the ability to adapt and evolve in real time under full analytical pressure. Both opponents possessed prior knowledge of his combat tendencies, decision-making patterns, and physical capabilities, allowing them to anticipate his actions with high accuracy. Tsukishiro in particular was capable of advanced behavioral analysis and “cold reading,” predicting movements by interpreting habits, timing cues, micro-adjustments, and established fight patterns. Despite this, Ayanokōji was able to continuously adjust mid-engagement by deliberately breaking and reconstructing his own behavioral data in real time. He introduced movement patterns that were not recorded in his White Room data set, effectively generating new habits, timing structures, and combat rhythms on the fly. This forced his opponents’ predictive models to become less reliable as the fight progressed, as his actions no longer followed consistent or previously observable patterns. In essence, rather than being constrained by his known data, he actively created unpredictable variables during combat, allowing him to counter opponents who relied heavily on pre-formed analysis and pattern prediction)

This would also scale to Tsukishiro (the cold reading part) as he was also countering Ayanokouji's cold reading

 

[Doggo]

Agree

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Looks good, I agree.

 

[Fwkiyo]

yea, I agree with these

 

[Idc.violet]

agreed. not too sure bout eg arisu but fine

 

[Doggo]

E.G Arisu makes sense, since being able to visualize a 3d image of a massive island for an extended time, while also predicting the movements of a dozen students, making strategies, and issuing orders is a level of cognitive multitasking beyond what a regular genius could accomplish.

 

[Vapidhoe]

I disagree for the E.G upgrade

I don't see Arisu being E.G, matter of fact I don't see even Ayanokoji as E.G but I'll leave that for now.....

Not only her visualizing the entire island is shaky at best, but there is literally zero statement of her visualizing the entire island, visualizing an island map in 3d inside you head is a typical thing a cartographer does, and professionals who work with spatial data which is the GIS and terrain mapping are highly trained in spatial visualization so basically the exact cognitive ability required to translate 2D contour into a 3D mental landscape, basically nothing "extraordinary" here

Also as for the chess part, not only japan doesn't even have a GM, but also it's mostly the representative of their best field in japan, and it is only stated that they were "professionals" not Super gm, or even gm, fm or even cm can still be considered professional, and since the anime canonicity has been accepted and can be used as a visual support, We can truly see how Arisu and Ayanokoji playing chess in the anime which to be quite frank, I can probably beat the both of them

So yeah, count me as disagree

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I disagree for the E.G upgrade

I don't see Arisu being E.G, matter of fact I don't see even Ayanokoji as E.G but I'll leave that for now.....

Ayanokouji literally fits the criterias for it, for you to disagree you would need to rework the criterias for E.G as a whole

Not only her visualizing the entire island is shaky at best, but there is literally zero statement of her visualizing the entire island, visualizing an island map in 3d inside you head is a typical thing a cartographer does, and professionals who work with spatial data which is the GIS and terrain mapping are highly trained in spatial visualization so basically the exact cognitive ability required to translate 2D contour into a 3D mental landscape, basically nothing "extraordinary" here

"Though she was only looking at the map in her tablet, Sakayanagi could indeed see the uninhabited island three-dimensionaly"

Edit: She is also taking into account, terrain, jungle, bushes and everything required for her to simulate the paths of 400 to 500 students along with other stuff

Did you check the scan?

Also as for the chess part, not only japan doesn't even have a GM, but also it's mostly the representative of their best field in japan, and it is only stated that they were "professionals" not Super gm, or even gm, fm or even cm can still be considered professional, and since the anime canonicity has been accepted and can be used as a visual support, We can truly see how Arisu and Ayanokoji playing chess in the anime which to be quite frank, I can probably beat the both of them

LN is the primary canon lol, so the anime while yes it can be used, the LN is the original source

And again, the LN states that they bring the top of the world and geniuses in every field, so the chess players Ayanokouji has fought is the highest rank for chess, which Arisu is above

 

[Vapidhoe]

Edit: She is also taking into account, terrain, jungle, bushes and everything required for her to simulate the paths of 400 to 500 students along with other stuff

Did you check the scan?

How does this warrant her being extraordinary genius though? People who who work with spatial data literally have this ability, and did she really simulate the paths of 400 to 500 students though? I don't see any of that in the scan, so like i said before, this is shaky at best

LN is the primary canon lol, so the anime while yes it can be used, the LN is the original source

And again, the LN states that they bring the top of the world and geniuses in every field, so the chess players Ayanokouji has fought is the highest rank for chess, which Arisu is above

Which almost none of their chess pgn are showed, therefore we use the anime visual as a support to canonicalize their movement

And again, the LN states that they bring the top of the world and geniuses in every field, so the chess players Ayanokouji has fought is the highest rank for chess, which Arisu is above

"These are people who left the stage due to problems in economics, psychology, and other fields, despite their ability to represent Japan, or even the world."

These are proof enough that the players ayanokoji fought isn't the highest rank of chess, that sentences alone prove their potential rather than proving they were definitely world class. The key idea here is lost potential, and definitely not a precise ranking.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I don't see Arisu being E.G, matter of fact I don't see even Ayanokoji as E.G but I'll leave that for now.....

I mean Zetsu kind of covered this already but there aren't really grounds to claim Ayanokouji himself isn't an extraordinary genius but I will focus on Arisu here given that is the aim of the CRT.

Not only her visualizing the entire island is shaky at best, but there is literally zero statement of her visualizing the entire island

Yes there is lol, it was included in the OP and here it is again.

visualizing an island map in 3d inside you head is a typical thing a cartographer does, and professionals who work with spatial data which is the GIS and terrain mapping are highly trained in spatial visualization so basically the exact cognitive ability required to translate 2D contour into a 3D mental landscape, basically nothing "extraordinary" here

This is a severe reduction of the circumstances on your part so I will correct this. Arisu wasn't just "imagining the map in 3D based on a 2D tablet display, rather she was taking the 2D map and converting it into usable 3D information with terrain etc so she could calculate the paths/arrival times of the students across the map. She was using this information to coordinate multiple groups and give orders to them in real time. The tablet maps are also NOT LIVE, they offer a static image at the time you create it, meaning that not only is she keeping track of the 3D model but also the live locations of all the people.

How does this warrant her being extraordinary genius though? People who who work with spatial data literally have this ability, and did she really simulate the paths of 400 to 500 students though? I don't see any of that in the scan, so like i said before, this is shaky at best

I mostly covered this above but the maps she had were 2D and static so the only way she gets data about the paths students take is calculating it in her head. This is also pretty clearly established in the scans in the OP. The scan verbatim says she ran simulations in her head with the information using the 3D model she visualized to figure out where everybody is and where they are moving. The size of the island was also established in the OP to further emphasize this, no cartographer is accurately visualizing 35 km^2 and keeping track of live movements of hundreds of people in their head at once.

Also the 400-500 students is an estimate since we don't know the exact number. 3 years with a max of 160 students = 480. Then subtract any expulsions prior to this and the real number is likely around 450.

Also as for the chess part, not only japan doesn't even have a GM, but also it's mostly the representative of their best field in japan, and it is only stated that they were "professionals" not Super gm, or even gm, fm or even cm can still be considered professional, and since the anime canonicity has been accepted and can be used as a visual support, We can truly see how Arisu and Ayanokoji playing chess in the anime which to be quite frank, I can probably beat the both of them

Which almost none of their chess pgn are showed, therefore we use the anime visual as a support to canonicalize their movement

Zetsu already answered, but to the point about using the anime to see specific moves made this is an incredibly flimsy argument. First the anime just shows random positions out of context for the most part and it is impossible to get an accurate estimate of chess rating from this. Plus, EVEN if we could use the anime to estimate their ratings and we assume the estimate we get supports your claim we still can't use that. In the event the anime were to show Arisu to have a lower rating it would no longer be "accurate" to the LN primary canon which says she is a master of chess. Either way the anime is far too unreliable to estimate a rating like that, especially if it makes both Ayanokouji and Arisu out to be amateurs.

In short no matter what the anime shows, if it contradicts the LN we can't use it. Since the LN says she is a master the anime must either prove that or we can't use it.

"These are people who left the stage due to problems in economics, psychology, and other fields, despite their ability to represent Japan, or even the world."

These are proof enough that the players ayanokoji fought isn't the highest rank of chess, that sentences alone prove their potential rather than proving they were definitely world class. The key idea here is lost potential, and definitely not a precise ranking.

Lastly what kind of argument is this? It's one line totally out of context with what it means. This line is talking about how they will prioritize ability in hiring instructors over their personality or other factors. Basically they want the most qualified people even if they are eccentric. It also says these people are skilled enough to represent even the world in their areas of expertise.

 

[Doggo]

If you really want to disprove EG, then prove that an IRL human can create a 3d model of a 2d map in their mind, and do that for a long time, while calculating how fast each student is moving and identifying their locations (while they are constantly moving), while also giving out orders to your minions

What Sakayanagi did is far beyond what an IRL human can do in terms of cognitive ability, and so it qualifies her for EG.

 

[Vapidhoe]

Yes there is lol, it was included in the OP and here it is again.

does it really says visualizing the entirety of the 35,000,000 m^2 island including 400 to 500 students, though? Strictly speaking, no. The text says she can see "the island" three-dimensionally, but cognitively, she likely are not rendering every single tree, blade of grass across the entire landmass simultaneously.

This is a severe reduction of the circumstances on your part so I will correct this. Arisu wasn't just "imagining the map in 3D based on a 2D tablet display, rather she was taking the 2D map and converting it into usable 3D information with terrain etc so she could calculate the paths/arrival times of the students across the map. She was using this information to coordinate multiple groups and give orders to them in real time. The tablet maps are also NOT LIVE, they offer a static image at the time you create it, meaning that not only is she keeping track of the 3D model but also the live locations of all the people.

IRL humans can do this, this is a highly specialized cognitive skill, in which Arisu does qualify as a genius which I have no problem with. this does represents the absolute limit of human spatial intelligence and deductive reasoning, this can still be found in military strategists, and navigators, or people who mainly works with spatial data, seeing a 2d map in a 3d simulation is a standard requirement for topographer mapping and military recon. experienced cartographers, orienteers, and search-and-rescue commanders can look at flat 2D contour lines or topographic maps and instantly see the elevation, steepness, and dips in their mind's eye. Their brain automatically extrudes the flat lines into a 3D landscape , a tactical expert use established parameters to run a simulation inside their head, like a real military commander knows that a squad carrying heavy gear moves at roughly 3 km/h on flat ground, but that speed drops by half if they are moving up a 15 degree incline through a forest and by looking at the 3D mental terrain and knowing where the squads started, the commander's brain calculates the timeline and plays their progress forward.

I mostly covered this above but the maps she had were 2D and static so the only way she gets data about the paths students take is calculating it in her head. This is also pretty clearly established in the scans in the OP. The scan verbatim says she ran simulations in her head with the information using the 3D model she visualized to figure out where everybody is and where they are moving. The size of the island was also established in the OP to further emphasize this, no cartographer is accurately visualizing 35 km^2 and keeping track of live movements of hundreds of people in their head at once.

Also the 400-500 students is an estimate since we don't know the exact number. 3 years with a max of 160 students = 480. Then subtract any expulsions prior to this and the real number is likely around 450.

I need some convincing of the fact that she kept track of 450 students at all times, not just analytical prediction and information analysis which i can agree they can be added, since the map is a static image like you've said, If she were truly keeping track of everyone at all times without looking at a live screen, she would need a constant stream of new sensory data. Without that data, a human brain no matter how cognitively "superhuman" cannot update a target's position if that target suddenly changes their mind, trips, pauses to rest, or turns around, and if what you said is true, this would make her literally nigh omniscient, not just extraordinary genius.

what is actually happening is she looks at the static map, takes the last known starting positions of the groups, and hits "play" on her own little mental calculation, she isn't actually seeing the people move in real time, she is calculating exactly where those people ought to be based on their speed and objectives.

given these conditions, I can agree either her being Nigh-omniscient, or just adding Analytical prediction and Information analysis, you choose.

This scan proves they are using a live tech feed to track people, not just pure mental simulation, and she is using analytical filtering to make sense of it. The key phrase here is "GPS signatures." she isn't relying only on a static tablet map and raw brainpower to guess where people are, she is looking at a digital static map display that provides actual, live tracking data via GPS.


This scan actually proves it was an analytical prediction all along. The character points out that over 12 days, the terrain has changed because hundreds of people have been walking across it. "There were more than a few paths where you could clearly make out people's footprints made since the storm." Arisu would just "know" where everyone is. but she is looking at the physical evidence left behind on the map or the terrain. By looking at where the paths have been worn down and where the footprints are fresh, she can deduce which routes are heavily trafficked and which are abandoned.

Zetsu already answered, but to the point about using the anime to see specific moves made this is an incredibly flimsy argument. First the anime just shows random positions out of context for the most part and it is impossible to get an accurate estimate of chess rating from this. Plus, EVEN if we could use the anime to estimate their ratings and we assume the estimate we get supports your claim we still can't use that. In the event the anime were to show Arisu to have a lower rating it would no longer be "accurate" to the LN primary canon which says she is a master of chess. Either way the anime is far too unreliable to estimate a rating like that, especially if it makes both Ayanokouji and Arisu out to be amateurs.

In short no matter what the anime shows, if it contradicts the LN we can't use it. Since the LN says she is a master the anime must either prove that or we can't use it.

This is pretty selective but if that is how that works, then I won't go further

If you really want to disprove EG, then prove that an IRL human can create a 3d model of a 2d map in their mind, and do that for a long time, while calculating how fast each student is moving and identifying their locations (while they are constantly moving), while also giving out orders to your minions

What Sakayanagi did is far beyond what an IRL human can do in terms of cognitive ability, and so it qualifies her for EG.

I already made my case here,I need some convincing, but regarding irl can do it or not, sure ig, I'll use 7 apa citations so hopefully these will help

Annan, V., & Pylyshyn, Z. (2006). Dynamics of target selection in Multiple Object Tracking (MOT).

Doran, M. M., & Hoffman, J. E. (2010). The role of visual attention in multiple object tracking: Evidence from ERPs. Attention, Perception, & Psychophysics).

Hasselmo, M. E., & Stern, C. E. (2015). Current questions on space and time encoding.

Moser, E. (2014). Mapping your every move. BrainFacts.

Parish, E. (2014). UK based neuroscientist wins Nobel Prize for work on the brain's "inner GPS".

Scholl, B. J. (2009). What have we learned about attention from multiple-object tracking (and vice versa).

Shepard, R. N., & Metzler, J. (1971). Mental rotation of three-dimensional objects.

Decades of cognitive research show that the brain’s parietal lobe takes flat 2D maps and instantly extrudes them into dynamic 3D mental environments, specialized neural structures act as a permanent mental GPS to maintain this layout for hours without cognitive burnout and the brain uses a visual attention mechanism called MOT to assign subconscious mental index pointers to individuals and this is allowing the average person to accurately predict movements and track the real-time locations of people constantly moving targets at once, this is pretty well documented neurological reality.

I already made my case, I most likely won't reply further, I'll just wait for others,

 

[RoggerReggor]

Annan, V., & Pylyshyn, Z. (2006). Dynamics of target selection in Multiple Object Tracking (MOT).

Doran, M. M., & Hoffman, J. E. (2010). The role of visual attention in multiple object tracking: Evidence from ERPs. Attention, Perception, & Psychophysics).

Hasselmo, M. E., & Stern, C. E. (2015). Current questions on space and time encoding.

Moser, E. (2014). Mapping your every move. BrainFacts.

Parish, E. (2014). UK based neuroscientist wins Nobel Prize for work on the brain's "inner GPS".

Scholl, B. J. (2009). What have we learned about attention from multiple-object tracking (and vice versa).

Shepard, R. N., & Metzler, J. (1971). Mental rotation of three-dimensional objects.

I do not think any of these sources actually prove the feat being claimed being performable by IRL people.

Annan & Pylyshyn (2006), Doran & Hoffman (2010), and Scholl (2009) are all MOT studies. The problem is that MOT research is famous for showing the LIMITS of human tracking ability. People can generally track around 4 to 5 moving targets under controlled conditions. None of these papers show someone tracking dozens of people across an entire island while simultaneously predicting their movements.

Shepard & Metzler (1971) is about mental rotation. It proves that people can mentally rotate 3D objects. Cool, but mentally rotating shapes is not the same thing as maintaining a real time simulation of an island full of moving students.

Hasselmo & Stern (2015), Moser (2014), and Parish (2014) are about place cells, grid cells, cognitive maps, and the brain's "inner GPS." They show that humans can build mental maps and navigate space effectively. What they do NOT show is knowing the exact location of a large number of moving people at once.

So yes, these sources support spatial reasoning, navigation, attention, and mental imagery. They support Arisu having a detailed mental map of the island and making educated predictions. They do NOT support the claim that he can accurately visualize an entire island, track everyone on it, and run near perfect simulations of their locations in real time.

That is a HUGE leap beyond what any of these studies actually demonstrate

I am not saying the feat directly warrants an E.G. rating or fulfills the criteria, but Arisu's feat is not HUMAN.

 

[Vapidhoe]

So yes, these sources support spatial reasoning, navigation, attention, and mental imagery. They support Arisu having a detailed mental map of the island and making educated predictions. They do NOT support the claim that he can accurately visualize an entire island, track everyone on it, and run near perfect simulations of their locations in real time.

That is a HUGE leap beyond what any of these studies actually demonstrate

The whole point of me posting those citations is giving out the fact that IRL humans are absolutely capable of creating a 3d model of a 2d map in their mind, and do that for a long time, while also at the same time calculating people movement and identifying their locations, exactly what Doggo was asking me for, Arisu accurately visualizing literally the entire island including the bushes, trees and grass, those hundreds of people and track everyone on it, and run near perfect simulations of their locations in real time was another matter which I address my doubt of it, literally before i give out those citations under the same comment.

So yeah it was indeed a huge leap, which isn't even my intention

But anyways, count me as disagree unless there's more actual proper reasonings and scans that warrants her being EG, I'm on disagreement, for now

 

[Zefra3011]

In what universe can we hold even just hundreds of information in our Working Memory?

Just the number of students would require Arisu to track hundreds of different information together. That's not even considering the whole island thing.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Could just get someone else's opinions on who's knowledgeable on intelligence

 

[DaReaperMan]

3-D mapping from a 2-D map is something advanced... but normal people can do that. In fact, that's how cartographers get around with maps. The only impressive part of that feat is the sheer number of students she committed to memory, but realistically I could see IRL people doing that too.

I vote she stays as merely "At least Genius", rather than making the jump to EG if it's literally just that and her upscaling from normal geniuses and THAT.

Takuya and Ichika are people I need context to give the yay or nay for scaling to her.

Photographic Memory is a hard no, Accelerated Development makes vague gestures at a feat existing to try to justify itself(That's a problem with other sections by the way...), Ibuki probably shouldn't have a profile at all if he/she doesn't exist enough to do basic academic shit.

And for the love of Sigmar, every time I see an Igmur link I lose braincells because that shit is famously unreliable. Upload directly to the wiki or just use Catbox/Imgchest.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

3-D mapping from a 2-D map is something advanced... but normal people can do that. In fact, that's how cartographers get around with maps. The only impressive part of that feat is the sheer number of students she committed to memory, but realistically I could see IRL people doing that too.

It's alot more than students, she is visualizing;

• A 35,000,000 m^2 island in 3D
• Visualizing the terrain like the forests, mountains, bushes etc etc
• 400 to 500 students
• All of the possible paths for each individual student
• Their objectives
• Who is behind strategies

I vote she stays as merely "At least Genius", rather than making the jump to EG if it's literally just that and her upscaling from normal geniuses and THAT.

Check above, the feat is way beyond a normal person imo

Takuya and Ichika are people I need context to give the yay or nay for scaling to her.

You can check here basically;

White Room Training (Classroom of the Elite)

The White Room is a secret facility, which tries to enhance the mental, physical and academic intelligence of its subjects or students via training them from a very young age. It was formed as an idea of Ayanokouji Atsuomi (father of Ayanokouji Kiyotaka). Till now, two generations of the White...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Photographic Memory is a hard no

She has to memorize everything perfectly to perform her calculations and predictions accurately though

Accelerated Development makes vague gestures at a feat existing to try to justify itself(That's a problem with other sections by the way...)

The white room is stated to bring the top of the world in each field (mind you, they are all geniuses)

And basically being the top of the world means they are the highest rank for chess, which Arisu is stated to be above at age 16

Ibuki probably shouldn't have a profile at all if he/she doesn't exist enough to do basic academic shit.

She should, she has feats to make a profile, she is just not book smart, she is more fighting oriented

And for the love of Sigmar, every time I see an Igmur link I lose braincells because that shit is famously unreliable. Upload directly to the wiki or just use Catbox/Imgchest.

I still find myself using it because, habit

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's alot more than students, she is visualizing;

• A 35,000,000 m^2 island in 3D
• Visualizing the terrain like the forests, mountains, bushes etc etc

Advanced cartography

• 400 to 500 students

Most teachers do this.

• All of the possible paths for each individual student

Advanced cartography

• Their objectives
• Who is behind strategies

Basic knowledge of people.

Check above, the feat is way beyond a normal person imo

Not really... but there's a reason I'm voting for her to keep her rating, it legit is solid and the feat IS impressive, there's just nothing EG-worthy here.

You can check here basically;

White Room Training (Classroom of the Elite)

The White Room is a secret facility, which tries to enhance the mental, physical and academic intelligence of its subjects or students via training them from a very young age. It was formed as an idea of Ayanokouji Atsuomi (father of Ayanokouji Kiyotaka). Till now, two generations of the White...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fair enough.

She has to memorize everything perfectly to perform her calculations and predictions accurately though

Photographic Memory is one of those abilities you just need a statement for. You can't really assume with it.

The white room is stated to bring the top of the world in each field (mind you, they are all geniuses)

And basically being the top of the world means they are the highest rank for chess, which Arisu is stated to be above at age 16

Yeah people who are 16 can be above leading geniuses in fields IMO

She should, she has feats to make a profile, she is just not book smart, she is more fighting oriented

Then state that on her file, it's not hard to word "More focused on fighting than acedemics, but is still a competent student."

I still find myself using it because, habit

Well break it lmfao

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Advanced cartography

I don't think it's possible for a normal person to visualize a literal entire island though, that's a big ass stretch imo

Most teachers do this.

Uh, i don't think you know the context of the island

The island exam creates a group of students, each with their own objective

The island has 100 zones, each group has to for each zones, not everyone goes to the same one

700 hundreds of meters of distance horizontally and 500 meters vertically

And she has to visualize the paths to reach them, meaning taking factors like obstacles, safe routes etc etc

Basic knowledge of people.

Nuh uh, check above, also, she has no knowledge of the 1st years students who she is currently facing, so this doesn't work either

Yeah people who are 16 can be above leading geniuses in fields IMO

Yeah but she wasn't born automatically better than them, that's the point

Then state that on her file, it's not hard to word "More focused on fighting than acedemics, but is still a competent student."

Uh, she already has a justification for her in her profile, this CRT is just to downgrade her to average because she is currently above average

Well break it lmfao

I'm trying ;c

 

[XxZetsuxX]

This is also her first time on the island btw

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm not really convinced IRL people can look at a tablet a follow hundreds of different points moving. We can't really pay attention to all those stuff. Seems like we can't really keep in mind more than 5 "items". Visualizing images is different, an image can hold details and still be considered a single information. So scratch the "island visualization" part. But Arisu had to keep track of hundreds of different elements moving, individually.

After she was adding more information in trying to to predict what they were doing. She had to also keep every single path in the island, because, form what I remember, the tablet weren't showing those, she had to check where people walked for days and memorized those movements to know the possibles paths on the island. At a certain point she even put down the tablet and remembered locations which, after 30 minutes, compared to new ones. Meaning for a part she was even holding two positions of some students.

Not sure we can really multi-task allat. And sounds a big stomp compared to IRL.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think it's possible for a normal person to visualize a literal entire island though, that's a big ass stretch imo

People literally do this though... like it's not as if cartographers don't do this specifically so others can visualize it like that.

Uh, i don't think you know the context of the island

You're making the assumption everyone watches/reads Classroom if the Elite. Me? I could barely get past the beginning of it until I dismissed it as a 4/10 series and went on to good shit. You need to explain these things as if the reader has never heard of a Classroom of the Elite before.

Nuh uh, check above, also, she has no knowledge of the 1st years students who she is currently facing, so this doesn't work either

And NOW, you've screwed up. Because this? This isn't Intelligence, this is quite literally impossible without outright precognition. And if she doesnt have that, then the feat should be thrown out as it is impossible to quantify literal impossible horseshit

Yeah but she wasn't born automatically better than them, that's the point

She's 16, not 5.

Uh, she already has a justification for her in her profile, this CRT is just to downgrade her to average because she is currently above average

Then link the file lmfao

I'm trying ;c

Do or do not, there is no try...

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

TLDR: The claim that Arisu's feat is "human level" is provable false.

I need some convincing of the fact that she kept track of 450 students at all times, not just analytical prediction and information analysis which i can agree they can be added, since the map is a static image like you've said, If she were truly keeping track of everyone at all times without looking at a live screen, she would need a constant stream of new sensory data. Without that data, a human brain no matter how cognitively "superhuman" cannot update a target's position if that target suddenly changes their mind, trips, pauses to rest, or turns around, and if what you said is true, this would make her literally nigh omniscient, not just extraordinary genius.

I didn't imagine you would essentially say we are trying to argue that Arisu is calculating Laplace's Demon here lol, that clearly isn't the case. As for whether you "believe" she was doing this again I will point out these are NOT assumptions on our part. The LN says she does this WORD FOR WORD.

Though she was only looking at the map via her tablet, Sakayanagi could indeed see the uninhabited island three-dimensionally. She ran through some realistic simulations in her head, figuring out who was advancing where and how they were moving. From there, she went on to determine exactly who was behind the overall strategies as they moved about the map.

does it really says visualizing the entirety of the 35,000,000 m^2 island including 400 to 500 students, though? Strictly speaking, no. The text says she can see "the island" three-dimensionally, but cognitively, she likely are not rendering every single tree, blade of grass across the entire landmass simultaneously.

It does say she visualized the island not a part of the island or a section of the island etc. If she is tracking all the students there is nothing to suggest she isn't visualizing the entire island. Again the argument that "she isn't visualizing every blade of grass" as if that somehow disproves the entire feat is just a weird argument on your part. At no point in the OP was this ever claimed or established. She is visualizing the terrain and people's paths through it.

what is actually happening is she looks at the static map, takes the last known starting positions of the groups, and hits "play" on her own little mental calculation, she isn't actually seeing the people move in real time, she is calculating exactly where those people ought to be based on their speed and objectives.

This is correct, which again makes it really strange why you think some Laplace's Demon ideas apply to this lol. No she isn't Nigh-Omniscient, but this is clearly above human levels.

I do not think any of these sources actually prove the feat being claimed being performable by IRL people.

Annan & Pylyshyn (2006), Doran & Hoffman (2010), and Scholl (2009) are all MOT studies. The problem is that MOT research is famous for showing the LIMITS of human tracking ability. People can generally track around 4 to 5 moving targets under controlled conditions. None of these papers show someone tracking dozens of people across an entire island while simultaneously predicting their movements.

Shepard & Metzler (1971) is about mental rotation. It proves that people can mentally rotate 3D objects. Cool, but mentally rotating shapes is not the same thing as maintaining a real time simulation of an island full of moving students.

Hasselmo & Stern (2015), Moser (2014), and Parish (2014) are about place cells, grid cells, cognitive maps, and the brain's "inner GPS." They show that humans can build mental maps and navigate space effectively. What they do NOT show is knowing the exact location of a large number of moving people at once.

So yes, these sources support spatial reasoning, navigation, attention, and mental imagery. They support Arisu having a detailed mental map of the island and making educated predictions. They do NOT support the claim that he can accurately visualize an entire island, track everyone on it, and run near perfect simulations of their locations in real time.

That is a HUGE leap beyond what any of these studies actually demonstrate

Reggor already addressed all the sources so I'll leave this as is. None of them actually show what you claimed, which is Arisu's visualization is proven to be "human level" when it is clearly above it. The difference between tracking about 5 targets vs 450 is crossing the threshold into beyond human and therefore EG. In that sense these articles disprove your argument instead of supporting it.

3-D mapping from a 2-D map is something advanced... but normal people can do that. In fact, that's how cartographers get around with maps. The only impressive part of that feat is the sheer number of students she committed to memory, but realistically I could see IRL people doing that too.

Just established this isn't the case, she is tracking almost 100x what is determined to be "human level" number of targets at once. This is obviously beyond "irl humans"

Advanced cartography

So this is now shown to be a severe reduction.

Most teachers do this.

Again severe reduction and proven false above.

I'm not really convinced IRL people can look at a tablet a follow hundreds of different points moving. We can't really pay attention to all those stuff. Seems like we can't really keep in mind more than 5 "items". Visualizing images is different, an image can hold details and still be considered a single information. So scratch the "island visualization" part. But Arisu had to keep track of hundreds of different elements moving, individually.

Again solidifying the point that what Arisu was doing is close to 100x times the amount of information a normal human can process.

People literally do this though... like it's not as if cartographers don't do this specifically so others can visualize it like that.

This argument is very weak tbh. I can run but that doesn't mean my running is in anyway comparable to Usain Bolt. This is a matter of scale, sure irl humans can visualize things but nowhere close to this scale, and Arisu was performing mental calculations with the information to boot.

You're making the assumption everyone watches/reads Classroom if the Elite. Me? I could barely get past the beginning of it until I dismissed it as a 4/10 series and went on to good shit. You need to explain these things as if the reader has never heard of a Classroom of the Elite before.

True, but the context you were missing has been in the OP since the beginning. So this was explained you just missed it.

35,000,000 m^2,

From the OP ^^^ which has all the information in the scan + map of the island.

And NOW, you've screwed up. Because this? This isn't Intelligence, this is quite literally impossible without outright precognition. And if she doesnt have that, then the feat should be thrown out as it is impossible to quantify literal impossible horseshit

What??? She used movement patterns, group locations, and changes in behavior over time to decipher what strategies the other students were using. This might be impossible for normal irl humans to make this conclusions from the given information but not for an EG with the ability to process this amount of information lol. That is kind of the point of this CRT given that she does this. If your argument is that "she shouldn't be EG and therefore cannot do this which makes the feat impossible and should be thrown out" then that is just ridiculous. We directly see the LN explain that she calculates this from the GPS scans.

So after all this yap...the island visualization is WAY above human levels, and not something that irl people can replicate.

 

[DaReaperMan]

What??? She used movement patterns, group locations, and changes in behavior over time to decipher what strategies the other students were using. This might be impossible for normal irl humans to make this conclusions from the given information but not for an EG with the ability to process this amount of information lol. That is kind of the point of this CRT given that she does this. If your argument is that "she shouldn't be EG and therefore cannot do this which makes the feat impossible and should be thrown out" then that is just ridiculous. We directly see the LN explain that she calculates this from the GPS scans.

That ain't what I was told:

Nuh uh, check above, also, she has no knowledge of the 1st years students who she is currently facing, so this doesn't work either

She has no knowledge of the first years. No knowledge means no knowing where they are or anything. Without PnA, that makes the feat literally unquantifiable ALA Re: Zero skillwank.

Not doing the rest since I'm on mobile, but my vote stands. Find someone with eval rights or something lol

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That ain't what I was told:

She has no knowledge of the first years. No knowledge means no knowing where they are or anything. Without PnA, that makes the feat literally unquantifiable ALA Re: Zero skillwank.

Yeah, i elaborated that wrong, anywho, here;

Arisu narrowed down her suspect list to the first years

That's on me, mb

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Regardless, as Zefra said, humans can't hold more than 5 meaningful items in their heads

Arisu is doing almost 100x as that value

This should easily warrant E.G since it's several stomps above the upper human limit

 

[Vapidhoe]

TLDR: The claim that Arisu's feat is "human level" is provable false.

It's probably isn't, you'd be surprised what irl humans are capable of.

TLDR: The claim that Arisu's feat is "human level" is provable false.


I didn't imagine you would essentially say we are trying to argue that Arisu is calculating Laplace's Demon here lol, that clearly isn't the case. As for whether you "believe" she was doing this again I will point out these are NOT assumptions on our part. The LN says she does this WORD FOR WORD.

Though she was only looking at the map via her tablet, Sakayanagi could indeed see the uninhabited island three-dimensionally. She ran through some realistic simulations in her head, figuring out who was advancing where and how they were moving. From there, she went on to determine exactly who was behind the overall strategies as they moved about the map.

You just increased my doubt even further, is this the only justification of the fact that she kept track of those 450 people and warrants her EG?

your bolded text however convince me that she does infact have analytical prediction and information analysis, in which I previously pointed out that I don't mind those added.

The wording literally screams analytical prediction and information analysis all over it, not her literally tracking 450 separate dots in her mind

It does say she visualized the island not a part of the island or a section of the island etc. If she is tracking all the students there is nothing to suggest she isn't visualizing the entire island. Again the argument that "she isn't visualizing every blade of grass" as if that somehow disproves the entire feat is just a weird argument on your part. At no point in the OP was this ever claimed or established. She is visualizing the terrain and people's paths through it.

Edit: She is also taking into account, terrain, jungle, bushes and everything required for her to simulate the paths of 400 to 500 students along with other stuff.

Not exactly "blade of grass" but you get the point

This is correct, which again makes it really strange why you think some Laplace's Demon ideas apply to this lol. No she isn't Nigh-Omniscient, but this is clearly above human levels.

That's from what I understood from this crt, which would literally makes her nigh omniscient, but if my explanations previously were the case then yeah, not EG worthy.

Reggor already addressed all the sources so I'll leave this as is. None of them actually show what you claimed, which is Arisu's visualization is proven to be "human level" when it is clearly above it. The difference between tracking about 5 targets vs 450 is crossing the threshold into beyond human and therefore EG. In that sense these articles disprove your argument instead of supporting it.

Wasn't my intention, I already addressed this under my reply towards reggor

My case still stand

 

[Vapidhoe]

Anyway i think y'all should ask a staff that can evaluate this, I think I gave enough reasonings why I disagree

 

[Fwkiyo]

I'm not well-versed when it comes to intelligence-based stuff. However, based on everything I've read in everyone's reasoning, I'm still going to keep my vote positive. I haven't heard a solid reason that disproves Zefra's comment (same with Huntsman)

I'm not really convinced IRL people can look at a tablet a follow hundreds of different points moving. We can't really pay attention to all those stuff. Seems like we can't really keep in mind more than 5 "items". Visualizing images is different, an image can hold details and still be considered a single information. So scratch the "island visualization" part. But Arisu had to keep track of hundreds of different elements moving, individually.

After she was adding more information in trying to to predict what they were doing. She had to also keep every single path in the island, because, form what I remember, the tablet weren't showing those, she had to check where people walked for days and memorized those movements to know the possibles paths on the island. At a certain point she even put down the tablet and remembered locations which, after 30 minutes, compared to new ones. Meaning for a part she was even holding two positions of some students.

Not sure we can really multi-task allat. And sounds a big stomp compared to IRL.

Obviously, my opinion won't matter, but that doesn't mean my mind can't be changed

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

That ain't what I was told

I blame Zetsu for this lol. I’m not sure how you understood this based on his earlier posts but this is the better TLDR of the feat.

She has no knowledge of the first years. No knowledge means no knowing where they are or anything. Without PnA, that makes the feat literally unquantifiable ALA Re: Zero skillwank.

This is the misunderstanding ok, again Zetsu is 100% to blame for confusing you. When he said she has 0 knowledge about the first years he means knowledge about their personalities, habits, marital arts skills etc. Those kinds of things. She does have information on their names, grade levels, and locations when she runs the GPS searches which generates the 2D static maps she is using here.

I hope this clears up the miscommunication. Again blame Zetsu for that.

The wording literally screams analytical prediction and information analysis all over it, not her literally tracking 450 separate dots in her mind

Only problem with your disagreement is that it entirely disagrees with what the text says verbatim. We know for a fact she tracked the students in her mind and we know she ran the simulations for their movement.

Since we also already established that this is well above human intelligence levels your disagreement fails on those grounds.

 

[RoggerReggor]

The whole point of me posting those citations is giving out the fact that IRL humans are absolutely capable of creating a 3d model of a 2d map in their mind, and do that for a long time, while also at the same time calculating people movement and identifying their locations, exactly what Doggo was asking me for, Arisu accurately visualizing literally the entire island including the bushes, trees and grass, those hundreds of people and track everyone on it, and run near perfect simulations of their locations in real time was another matter which I address my doubt of it, literally before i give out those citations under the same comment.

So yeah it was indeed a huge leap, which isn't even my intention

But anyways, count me as disagree unless there's more actual proper reasonings and scans that warrants her being EG, I'm on disagreement, for now

I don't think proving that doing something in a "human way" but in a way that requires "non-human capabilities" still somehow nullifies a character's unrealistic feat(s)' applicability.

But sure, I guess.

snip

This is true. Arisu can readily access students' preliminary data through OAA app as well, something which can be done by others too.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Considering she had a map and GPS available while doing this, I would quantify this under Genius. Without those, I would go EG.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Considering she had a map and GPS available while doing this, I would quantify this under Genius. Without those, I would go EG.

Due to the arguments being made the actual substance of the feat seems to have been lost in explanation. This isn't actually the case that she "had access to" maps and a GPS" in relation to the feat.

Students have tablets with them and can perform a "GPS Search" using them. This search returns a still picture of the map including the locations of students at the moment of the GPS Search. This is a static picture and not a live map. Over several minutes Arisu did this multiple times, then used this information to create a visual map in 3D in her mind. She used that visualization map to "run simulations" of how the other hundreds of students were moving, where their actual current locations were, and what strategies they were employing all based on those few static images she got.

She did not have a live map of the island, or live information about people's GPS locations. She used the pictures to calculate everything. I hope this clears it up a bit.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I would still count it as Genius. EG is a very high bar.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I would still count it as Genius. EG is a very high bar.

It is a high bar, but this is clearly way beyond anything possible by human standards. Tracking and running simulations of the locations and paths of hundreds of students at once, then using that information to calculate their strategies meets the EG criteria of vastly surpassing real world human limits, executing a complex strategy under pressure, and performing extremely advanced thought processes such as calculations and multitasking.

This actually fits the EG definition fairly cleanly so I think it meets the high bar for EG without much issue.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It's not like she did this in seconds or even minutes. She had hours, over the course of 12 days.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

It's not like she did this in seconds or even minutes. She had hours, over the course of 12 days.

I have no idea why Zetsu said 12 days here, I can't believe I didn't catch this mistake yet. This wasn't over the course of 12 days, this was only the 12th day of the exam, so she had GPS searches going back to the 4th day (when players could first use this feature) but the actual visualization and the actual feat of running these simulation was over the course of several minutes.

I honestly can't even think how to throw Zetsu under the bus enough for this screw-up.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Oh, okay. Then the last question, how accurate were her predictions? Was she accurate for every student she tracked, or just her targets/main focuses?

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

The line about 12 days in the LN just says that over the course of the exam so far the students traversing the island had worn paths into it.

However this isn't some 12 day long calculation, the actual feat was only a few minutes of calculation.