Upgrading Hellbat To 2A And Kyle Rayner Rookie Key To 2A

[Bimgus8010]

Hellbat (Batman Post-Flashpoint)
-Appeared in rebirth era twice
-Lois lane uses the armor to take hits from rebirth eradicator and damaging him (superman 2016 issue 5)
-Batman uses the armor to fight a creature/manifestation of his own fears that had defeated rebirth etrigan (detective comics 2016 issue 998)
-The key for hellbat should be "4B, up to 2A In Rebirth" (4B key should be high 3A because of my other thread lol)

Rookie Kyle Rayner (Kyle Rayner Post-Crisis)
-One of his first ever feats in his first ever appearances as green lantern was beating 2A mongul with the help of superman and knocking him out (Green lantern 1990 issue 52-53)

 

[Hecky2222]

Rookie Kyle Rayner (Kyle Rayner Post-Crisis)
-One of his first ever feats in his first ever appearances as green lantern was beating 2A mongul with the help of superman and knocking him out (Green lantern 1990 issue 52-53)

I disagree with this, text itself self-evident why we shouldn't scale Rookie Kyle to Mongul

Res seems fine, although i would word

4B, up to 2A In Rebirth

to

4-B, up to 2-A

 

[Bimgus8010]

I disagree with this, text itself self-evident why we shouldn't scale Rookie Kyle to Mongul

Kyle still damaged mongul and tanked lots of attacks from him, even delivering the final blow to knock him out

Superman helping him is something but it wasnt like his stats were magically buffed up via his help

The damage he dealt and took was still Kyle's doing

Not saying that Kyle is equal to mongul but it shows that he can affect him in one of his first ever appearances

 

[Hecky2222]

Kyle still damaged mongul and tanked lots of attacks from him, even delivering the final blow to knock him out

Superman helping him is something but it wasnt like his stats were magically buffed up via his help

The damage he dealt and took was still Kyle's doing

Not saying that Kyle is equal to mongul but it shows that he can affect him in one of his first ever appearances

Still makes no sense, you need to have more feats to justify how his rookie version is 2-A otherwise it is truly outlier

 

[AyOgUyS]

The Hellbat revisions look good. Does rookie Kyle have any other instances of fighting 2-A characters?

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Kyle Rayner fighting 2A Mongul is not an outlier. ALL rookie Green Lantern’s must perform the 2A Trial of WillWorld in order to become initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. Kyle Rayner is the second greatest Green Lantern after Hal Jordan so it is not too surprising that he was able to fight Mongul.

 

[AyOgUyS]

ALL rookie Green Lantern’s must perform the 2A Trial of WillWorld in order to become initiated into the Green Lantern Corps.

I suppose this makes sense. Should we add that to the justification?

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Yes

 

[Hecky2222]

Kyle Rayner fighting 2A Mongul is not an outlier. ALL rookie Green Lantern’s must perform the 2A Trial of WillWorld in order to become initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. Kyle Rayner is the second greatest Green Lantern after Hal Jordan so it is not too surprising that he was able to fight Mongul.

without supporting feats something which OP doesn't have it makes no sense to scale Kyle 2-A via single feat

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Given that he just got his ring it may be too early in his career to give Kyle a 2A rating for fighting Mongul. However, as stated, ALL rookie Green Lanterns must eventually perform the trial of WillWorld. It may vary as to how long each Green Lantern is in their rookie stage. Hal Jordan undertook the trial after a few months of having the ring. Most probably take much longer and others may be ready even earlier. It is unknown when Kyle would have been ready to undergo the trial. Green Lantern Rings vary by strength of willpower and imagination and usually do not operate at peak levels. Regardless, by the end of their rookie stage as a Green Lantern, they must have performed the trial of WillWorld.

 

[Bimgus8010]

without supporting feats something which OP doesn't have it makes no sense to scale Kyle 2-A via single feat

 

[PromptedElephant641]

My consensus is that while ALL rookie Green Lanterns must perform the 2A trial of WillWorld, Kyle Rayner was far too early in his career to have the capacity to reasonably scale to Mongul (he had just gotten the ring). He should still be labeled as up to 2A as a rookie just as all Green Lanterns should.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

How's this 2-A, it seems like Low 2-C to me.

 

[Bimgus8010]

How's this 2-A, it seems like Low 2-C to me.

Tbh yea

Now that I think about it

The trial itself seems like low 2C

It's just that the trial is in the central power battery where it's an infinite sea with infinite bubbles, each bubble containing a universe

So the central power battery/willworld is 2A

While the trial itself is only low 2C

 

[Ozcantabak]

Agree with rebirth hellbat being 2-A

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @SamanPatou @Emirp sumitpo @Elizio33

What do you think about this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think about this?

Willworld isn't a Tier 2 showing in my view. For the Hellbat armor I'll have to get back with you on that.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Isn't Mongul getting re-tiered?

 

[Bimgus8010]

Willworld isn't a Tier 2 showing in my view. For the Hellbat armor I'll have to get back with you on that.

Blud, this has nothing to do with willworld, you are in the wrong post

Central power battery is already accepted as tier 2, il be it, not 2A but low 2C as shown with accepted feats by cyborg superman


I'm just scaling kyle a bit to mongul and parallax Hal Jordan seeing as rookie Kyle and parallax Hal were pulled into a tournament in convergence

Where Kyle managed to block a bloodlusted attack from parallax Hal, even tanking his blast


- i should have prolly put this in too (convergence : green lantern)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Blud, this has nothing to do with willworld, you are in the wrong post

My dude, you and Elephant both brought up Willworld.

It's just that the trial is in the central power battery where it's an infinite sea with infinite bubbles, each bubble containing a universe

So the central power battery/willworld is 2A

While the trial itself is only low 2C

Given that he just got his ring it may be too early in his career to give Kyle a 2A rating for fighting Mongul. However, as stated, ALL rookie Green Lanterns must eventually perform the trial of WillWorld. It may vary as to how long each Green Lantern is in their rookie stage.

Its one of the supporting arguments presented for Kyle starting out at 2-A.

 

[Bimgus8010]

My dude, you and Elephant both brought up Willworld.


Its one of the supporting arguments presented for Kyle starting out at 2-A.

This is from another post, which has nothing to do with this one

I never even brought up willworld here

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Again, where is 2A Mongul coming from as Mongul not scaling to Darkseid was accepted in this thread:

Removing Mongul = Darkseid scaling

So right now we have scaling on Cyborg Superman above Mongul and a few other people scaling to Mongul, who we have as scaled to Darkseid from these two statements but....they don't really track with what we see. For starters let's look at at all the Superman vs Darkseid fights in Post Crisis...

vsbattles.com

 

[Qawsedf234]

This is from another post, which has nothing to do with this one

It's in this thread. Scroll up you both mentionEd Willworld as a justification.

never even brought up willworld here

???

The trial itself seems like low 2C

It's just that the trial is in the central power battery where it's an infinite sea with infinite bubbles, each bubble containing a universe

So the central power battery/willworld is 2A

While the trial itself is only low 2C

 

[Bimgus8010]

Again, where is 2A Mongul coming from as Mongul not scaling to Darkseid was accepted in this thread:

Removing Mongul = Darkseid scaling

So right now we have scaling on Cyborg Superman above Mongul and a few other people scaling to Mongul, who we have as scaled to Darkseid from these two statements but....they don't really track with what we see. For starters let's look at at all the Superman vs Darkseid fights in Post Crisis...

vsbattles.com

What you proposed here is simply not equalizing him with darkseid and cyborg superman stats

Not nuking his tier, especially not when he has fought superman in multiple occasions

 

[Bimgus8010]

It's in this thread. Scroll up you both mentionEd Willworld as a justification.


???

Oooh, that one that was like 7 days ago?

So, not only did I never agreed with rookie Kyle scaling to the entire central power battery which as seen with my respond to rex

Therefore, that is not the way I want to scale him to 2A

The central power battery itself is already accepted as low 2C In cyborg supes page

So It is tier 2

And that's not the thing I want to get him to scale to 2A, the thing I'm using is the recent parallax Hal and mongul feat for rookie kyle

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out here and elsewhere, Qawsedf234.