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Project Moon Discussion 2

I think you people misunderstand me. This is like mach 2-5. Actual on-screen feat. I really hope this is enough to bury our speed calcs for good.

Let alone relativistic/lightspeed PMoon.
 
I think you people misunderstand me. This is like mach 2-5. Actual on-screen feat.
I mean, it's definitely a mach feat, but it's quite literally not on-screen. We don't know how fast she or the Lord of Flies was going. We just vaguely know that Valencina can accelerate faster than sound by a lot.

The only semi-concrete description we get is "lightning-fast" and that's just a flavour description. That and Rodion mentioning that she needs to double her speed in the first half of the fight before she can even begin to make headway against the Lord of Flies.
 
I mean, it's definitely a mach feat, but it's quite literally not on-screen. We don't know how fast she or the Lord of Flies was going. We just vaguely know that Valencina can accelerate faster than sound by a lot.
It is onscreen in the vein that this feat was actually happening in a cutscene. We do. Faster than sound. And the way it was framed, not by magnitudes faster. Which means massivly hypersonic PMoon is buried for the forseeable future.
 
It is onscreen in the vein that this feat was actually happening in a cutscene. We do. Faster than sound. And the way it was framed, not by magnitudes faster. Which means massivly hypersonic PMoon is buried for the forseeable future.
If it means no match ups with Zoro I don't mind
 
Like is there no one we can have fair match with
Well Binah is relegated to the either I oneshot you or I get oneshotted. Kali would be good but she's too much of a brick when it comes to moveset without ruina. The rest have annoying mind and soul hax that makes matches with them not too fair
 
It is onscreen in the vein that this feat was actually happening in a cutscene. We do. Faster than sound. And the way it was framed, not by magnitudes faster. Which means massivly hypersonic PMoon is buried for the forseeable future.
Faster than sound is a vague amount. If we used that alone, DBS would be below lightspeed since Dyspo is praised for being faster than light.

All it even says is that sound was trailing further and further behind her movements, nothing more.
 
Faster than sound is a vague amount. If we used that alone, DBS would be below lightspeed since Dyspo is praised for being faster than light.
The difference is that Dragon Ball has a bunch of other FTL feats, while all of Project Moon's Massively Hypersonic shtick is based on clashing animations.

Specifically for Ruina, Index [*Teleports Behind You* Nothin' Personnel Kid] combat pages clashing with bullets, which really shouldn't be an indicator of speed considering that they do that to literally any page they clash with, up to and including those from The Red Mist.

(Obviously, actual Proselytes can't blink-step several meters in the time it takes Kali to swing her sword once.)

Like, getting speed from combat animations is one thing, but getting speed from how two different combat animations interact when mashed together is another.
 
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The difference is that Dragon Ball has a bunch of other FTL feats, while all of Project Moon's Massively Hypersonic shtick is based on clashing animations.

Specifically, Index [*Teleports Behind You* Nothin' Personnel Kid] combat pages clashing with bullets, which really shouldn't be an indicator of speed considering that they do that to literally any page they clash with, up to and including The Red Mist.

Like, getting speed from combat animations is one thing, but getting speed from how two different combat animations interact when mashed together is another.
Then that should be the main point being pushed and not a vague descriptive statement that just has Valencina Rodya getting faster and faster than sound by unknown amounts and metrics.
 
Then that should be the main point being pushed and not a vague descriptive statement that just has Valencina Rodya getting faster and faster than sound by unknown amounts and metrics.
No, the fact that the first time we've explicitly been told that someone is moving faster than sound being for a Sottocapo whose fighting style is about going Really Really Fast is still notable.

(Though, technically it's the second time, Eri's keypage mentions "ludicrous speed" as crossing multiple blocks in a split second)
 
Then that should be the main point being pushed and not a vague descriptive statement that just has Valencina Rodya getting faster and faster than sound by unknown amounts and metrics.
Its literally both though. The series asserts that couple of machs is really fast and that 2 of our calc speeds are a wonky mess that, if taken at face value, clash with the entire setting. Something I have argued for in this very thread already. This is one of the few instances where a general idea of speed was given.
 
No, the fact that the first time we've explicitly been told that someone is moving faster than sound being a Sottocapo whose fighting style is about going Really Really Fast is still notable.

(Though, technically it's the second time, Eri's keypage mentions "ludicrous speed" as crossing multiple blocks in a split second)
Her opponent was keeping up with her speed until she's described as going as "lightning-fast". Her faster than sound speed isn't treated as notable in and of itself, it's only when she begins to accelerate by a lot (over twice at least since she comments that is the bare minumum needed to scratch the Lord of Flies) that she outspeeds them fully.

We also had Argalia perform a complete blitz of a Rail Gun round and irl ones can go some degree of hypersonic (as in fast enough to go in front of it from a location completely out of view, read the insignia and analyse the bullet in detail, before then deflecting it casually). Plus we know bullets are relative small fry by the rank opponents become competent.

To be clear, idc about the MHS debate or not, just talking about supersonic showings.
 
Her opponent was keeping up with her speed until she's described as going as "lightning-fast".
The lightning descriptor was against Bladeshu, not the Lord of the Flies. Also lightning is a common hyperbole, while the other is an explicit statement of speed.
Her faster than sound speed isn't treated as notable in and of itself, it's only when she begins to accelerate by a lot (over twice at least since she comments that is the bare minumum needed to scratch the Lord of Flies) that she outspeeds them fully.
No, but also Yeah, that's fair, but also No. Rodencina outspeeding her sound happens after she's already spent all of her high-grade ammunition, so you definitely have a point there.

But also the fact that the Lord of the Flies doesn't blitz her after she's operating on economy-rounds means her acceleration couldn't have closed more than a 5x speed gap, tops.
We also had Argalia perform a complete blitz of a Rail Gun round and irl ones can go some degree of hypersonic (as in fast enough to go in front of it from a location completely out of view, read the insignia and analyse the bullet in detail, before then deflecting it casually). Plus we know bullets are relative small fry by the rank opponents become competent.
We literally don't see him do any of that, he just deflects it. Argalia figuring out that it was an Atelier Logic round could've been from other factors besides him reading the label as it approached him.

Also, we have no idea where Roland's definition of "competent" is. For reference, Ryoshu calls Ricardo a B!tch Brother while Outis describes beating Finger Officers as "the bare minimum."
To be clear, idc about the MHS debate or not, just talking about supersonic showings.
Fair's fair. To be honest, I'm not really against Supersonic mid/high-tiers (Supersonic Ricardo go brrrrr); but the Massively Hypersonic Proselytes irks me.
 
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The lightning descriptor was against Bladeshu, not the Lord of the Flies. Also lightning is a common hyperbole, while the other is an explicit statement of speed.
I'm aware. I called it flowery flavour earlier.

No, but also Yeah, that's fair, but also No. Rodencina outspeeding her sound happens after she's already spent all of her high-grade ammunition, so you definitely have a point there.

But also the fact that the Lord of the Flies doesn't blitz her after she's operating on economy-rounds means her acceleration couldn't have closed more than a 5x speed gap, tops.
Fair enough. Although her having notably superior precog can make the gap a bit wider.

We literally don't see him do any of that, he just deflects it. Argalia figuring out that it was an Atelier Logic round could've been from other factors besides him reading the label as it approached him.
Argalia figures it out when he sees the bullet in person. He comments

"A bullet crafted by Atelier Logic... Why, those are some expensive bullets you have there, don’t you friends?"

Regardless, he bare minimum still moved from out of view of the Full Stop Office to in front of Elaina and then deflects it casually in an absolute blitz. We see something similar in the Limbus Walp event too.

Also, we have no idea where Roland's definition of "competent" is. For reference, Ryoshu calls Ricardo a B!tch Brother while Outis describes beating Finger Officers as "the bare minimum."
The Ruina artbook describes the Proselytes as
"This is when sprites started to have motion blur effects by default! We started including the trail effects in attack animations as stronger characters began to appear."

So you can kinda take the intent of the artists and devs to be decent by City standards. Granted, as a Colour level combatant, Roland's standards are probably high.

Personally speaking, I take PM characters as supersonic by unspecified metrics starting from the Full-stop Office Reception since our Librarians can and have to deflect bullets outright.

The Fullstop Office's rolls aren't even that special for that part of the game tbh.
 
Ruina Update: 2/3rds through Star of the City and stumbled into this:
Roland: That one guy ran off with her at the speed of sound, to be fair... No wonder we couldn't get a good look at it.
Miris (albeit, a wounded Miris carrying another person) is explicitly Transonic.

Add that line to the pile for the future Speed CRT.
 
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We literally don't see him do any of that, he just deflects it. Argalia figuring out that it was an Atelier Logic round could've been from other factors besides him reading the label as it approached him.
It also can be common guess, because if you are not from something like Thumb or R corp Atelier Logic is one of your only choises.
 
Honestly

How many guns workshops even are there
An unknown amount, but we know Atelier is one of the higher end ones since their bullets make a dent in even Hong Lu's wallet.

"Hmhm~ I think my budget can handle a volley, unless you're looking to shoot Atelier Logic ammunition full auto… Now that'll bankrupt even me, ha ha."

Being the uptie story (although that's only Hong Lu's on hand funds. His family can easily cover it with "pocket money"). However, Atelier isn't top of the shelf when it comes to bullets despite even Roland using them. Hong Lu's ID states as much.

"Atelier Logic is acceptable, but I wouldn't compare them to the S-class Workshops.
I once saw an S-class firearm my big brother somehow managed to get his hands on, and it was much better than the ones we're using in our Office."

Yeah, for Argalia's level of speed and skill, gunfire is pretty useless for him. He even gets a passive representing that fact. Granted, he's one of the fastest characters in-verse, but he's not blitzing Roland or even Xiao.
 
An unknown amount, but we know Atelier is one of the higher end ones since their bullets make a dent in even Hong Lu's wallet.
To be fair - all bullets there kinda high priced due to taxes.
However, Atelier isn't top of the shelf when it comes to bullets despite even Roland using them. Hong Lu's ID states as much.
If we go into schizo card scaling, atelier logic is blue so it's kinda mid.
 
I guess Olga >>> Atelier Logic Rounds.
I said it was a shizo scaling

But also I think rarity of cards is relative to one who use them

Like for Rolands - Furioso, being his signature, gives it's highest status, meanwhile, all of his weapons caps at purple, which either means he not that good at using them, or they not that high quality, cuz Roland not that rich himself (Angelica as well)
 
There would've been no point of giving cards rarity if it had 0 relevancy to character
 
Can you put all your thoughts into one message instead of sending multiple small ones when replying? Each discussion page isn't free.

EDIT: ANOTHER BUFF FOR DAWNCLAIR, ARE WE DEADASS?!
 
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So dawn office huh... Not what I expected (especially with 3rd id for greg and faust in season) but oh well
 
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I'm surprised no one mentioned the ominous Solemn Lament Yi Sang EGO. Would that make Solemn Lament ID useless since you can actually use Riensang + SL EGO
 
Ruina Update: I HAD FOUR F*CKING AMMO PAGES AND +2 PIERCE POWER ON ALL DICE, HOW THE F*CK DOES BLUE STAR SHRINE'S MASS ATTACK BS OUTROLL ME 75% OF THE TIME?! IT'S A GODDAMN 20!
 
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Ruina Update: I HAD FOUR F*CKING AMMO PAGES AND +2 PIERCE POWER ON ALL DICE, HOW THE F*CK DOES BLUE STAR SHRINE'S MASS ATTACK BS OUTROLL ME 75% OF THE TIME?! IT'S A GODDAMN 20!
Ngl I don't remember having problem with this abno specifically so can't give you advice
 
Ngl I don't remember having problem with this abno specifically so can't give you advice
I was being stubborn because I didn't want make new decks. Just tried it again but brought Blunt and Slash alongside two Mono Pierce Librarians and did it 3rd try...
 
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