Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Echidnacodefan2512]

To answer your statement: Black Knife

Flowery response:

 

[Breadbear83]

Enjoy 7-B & Class T Deltarune before it gets nuked.

I will be busy this day, so i will correct things tomorrow. Any comentary to improve the calc is welcome!

the flowery speed calc, the links to ´´consistently move between each frame´´ just show the regular video, not frame by frame

also the 12.47 in the low and high end calculations, would be the distance flowerys move? do you have pixel scaling for it (same for the sun calc)?

for what i see, when Flowerys moves towards the Knight, the afterimages move, if its for when flowerys is hitting the knight, maybe they do seem statued, but i think any enemy when hit is on a freeze frame

 

[Arceus0x]

hehe

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Something that supports Flowery not using his fake stats in his fight against the Gang is his HP stat. When he’s in the party he has 999 HP (all nines like his other fake stats and how Chara sees the number nine as the highest number), however in his fight he’s coded to have 7,000 HP (no nines). Since Susie and Ralsei refuse to let Flowery be defeated with violence, that means that his HP could be literally any number and there wouldn’t be any worry about game balance or anything. Despite this, it was deliberately chosen for Flowery to not have like 99,999 HP or something, but instead a realistic number that you’d expect the Chapter 5 boss to have.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Something that supports Flowery not using his fake stats in his fight against the Gang is his HP stat. When he’s in the party he has 999 HP (all nines like his other fake stats and how Chara sees the number nine as the highest number), however in his fight he’s coded to have 7,000 HP (no nines). Since Susie and Ralsei refuse to let Flowery be defeated with violence, that means that his HP could be literally any number and there wouldn’t be any worry about game balance or anything. Despite this, it was deliberately chosen for Flowery to not have like 99,999 HP or something, but instead a realistic number that you’d expect the Chapter 5 boss to have.

You're never actually able to see how much HP he has in-game because he'll always be max HP on your turn. I'm almost entirely sure the 7000 HP is just a high number placeholder.

 

[Edutyn]

the flowery speed calc, the links to ´´consistently move between each frame´´ just show the regular video, not frame by frame

Strange it worked for me, will correct it tomorrow

also the 12.47 in the low and high end calculations, would be the distance flowerys move?

Slow move calc: (real speed of reference object / apparent speed of reference object) * apparent speed of object of interest

do you have pixel scaling for it (same for the sun calc)?

**** know i forgot something, i will added tomorrow

for what i see, when Flowerys moves towards the Knight, the afterimages move, if its for when flowerys is hitting the knight, maybe they do seem statued, but i think any enemy when hit is on a freeze frame

The thing is Flowery move fast enought to the point that it appers time moving (the background stopped moving, rk afterimages stopped moving, even it went black & withe)

i dont know if i explain myself correctly

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Something that supports Flowery not using his fake stats in his fight against the Gang is his HP stat. When he’s in the party he has 999 HP (all nines like his other fake stats and how Chara sees the number nine as the highest number), however in his fight he’s coded to have 7,000 HP (no nines). Since Susie and Ralsei refuse to let Flowery be defeated with violence, that means that his HP could be literally any number and there wouldn’t be any worry about game balance or anything. Despite this, it was deliberately chosen for Flowery to not have like 99,999 HP or something, but instead a realistic number that you’d expect the Chapter 5 boss to have.

Also,

Fake stats dictate he has 99 ATK

According to the damage formula, to a 290 HP | 13 DEF Susie, he'd do:

5*ATK = 5*99 = 495 Base Damage
This value is then decreased depending on the party member's DF, calculated one point at a time. For each point of DF,

• ...if the current damage is greater than 1/5 of the party member's max HP, damage is reduced by 3.
• ...if the current damage is greater than 1/8 of the party member's max HP, damage is reduced by 2.
• ...otherwise, damage is reduced by 1.

13 points, 13 deductions.

1. 495-3 = 492 HP (>1/5, so next deduction is 3, and so on)
2. 492-3 = 489 HP
3. 486
4. 483
5. 480
6. 477
7. 474
8. 471
9. 468
10. 465
11. 462
12. 459
13. 456

He should, but all means, one shot Susie.

Instead, he does around 60 HP

Which is around 20 ATK (in the code), or 40 ATK (in recruit scaling). Even if you claim the 99 ATK was meant to be stats showcase as recruits (which doesn't translate to the damage formula), that's still twice as much as his actual attack and he does similar damage to Terakota and Sheary.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Have we ever used in-game damage like that before? Like doesn't Asriel do as much damage as Papyrus in-code lol
Hell, as you yourself said the 200 DEF Titan Spawn take as much damage as the 30 something DEF Darkners in that area.
This is ignoring that RECRUIT and CHECK stats are just completely different.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Have we ever used in-game damage like that before? Like doesn't Asriel do as much damage as Papyrus in-code lol
Hell, as you yourself said the 200 DEF Titan Spawn take as much damage as the 30 something DEF Darkners in that area.
This is ignoring that RECRUIT and CHECK stats are just completely different.

You can count on one hand cut in half how many Darkners actually have a real DEF stat (by that I mean any DEF at all)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You can count on one hand cut in half how many Darkners actually have a real DEF stat (by that I mean any DEF at all)

Oh yeah Susie deals half of what her CHECK says (About ATK)

 

[Randomuser3412]

Flowery'll take the same damage as any ol' Rudinn you find, or King, Queen, the Titan Spawn, Spamton, Pippins, whatever

 

[Arceus0x]

So considering the whole princess thing with Ralsei do you think he is


a) Trans

b) Genderfluid

c) Still a feminine boy

d) (theory option) princess living as a 'prince' to fulfill the prophecy



?

 

[Randomuser3412]

So considering the whole princess thing with Ralsei do you think he is


a) Trans

b) Genderfluid

c) Still a feminine boy

d) (theory option) princess living as a 'prince' to fulfill the prophecy



?

I think Flowery is a douchebag who called him a princess to condescend

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Like doesn't Asriel do as much damage as Papyrus in-code lol

Using the game that have a canonical reason for progress in durability beyond stats is not ideal.

This is ignoring that RECRUIT and CHECK stats are just completely different.

I literally take that into account.

Have we ever used in-game damage like that before

If the Susie fight in chapter 1 is anything to go by, the party stats are twice as strong as the damage formula stats, either way, we can ignore the damage formula and just compare damage from similar enemies, he's around 45 ATK (canon) or 20 ATK (code)

 

[Galactidot]

So considering the whole princess thing with Ralsei do you think he is


a) Trans

b) Genderfluid

c) Still a feminine boy

d) (theory option) princess living as a 'prince' to fulfill the prophecy



?

A, this isn't the only evidence we have, but it's some of the strongest imo

 

[Randomuser3412]

If it wasn't clear, I think it's "C" (even though that's worded kind of funny) and he was just insulting Ralsei a bit

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I think Flowery is a douchebag who called him a princess to condescend

You do have to consider that, just prior to that, the scene is specifically about Ralsei wanting the blue and pink juice, with the menu text then referring to Ralsei using they/them pronouns right after said scene. Also the whole other scene where Ralsei blows up at Flowery for "pretending to be something you're not!" only for him to respond with "Oh? Wanna tell them what's wrong with that, Ralsei?" and then claiming that his teasing was meant to make Ralsei realize they could be happy.

 

[Galactidot]

You do have to consider that, just prior to that, the scene is specifically about Ralsei wanting the blue and pink juice, with the menu text then referring to Ralsei using they/them pronouns right after said scene. Also the whole other scene where Ralsei blows up at Flowery for "pretending to be something you're not!" only for him to respond with "Oh? Wanna tell them what's wrong with that, Ralsei?" and then claiming that his teasing was meant to make Ralsei realize they could be happy.

this!

 

[Randomuser3412]

Huh. That's interesting

 

[Breadbear83]

Strange it worked for me, will correct it tomorrow

Slow move calc: (real speed of reference object / apparent speed of reference object) * apparent speed of object of interest

**** know i forgot something, i will added tomorrow

The thing is Flowery move fast enought to the point that it appers time moving (the background stopped moving, rk afterimages stopped moving, even it went black & withe)

i dont know if i explain myself correctly

the links works, just they send you to a website to move frame by frame by yourself, but even in normal youtube you can move between frames by pressing ´´,´´ and ´´.´´

for slowmo calculations, for example in the first method here, you still need the distance that the faster character (flowery) moves while the slower character (The Knight afterimages) are statued

with the knight afterimages speed and slow mo value, you rather get a timeframe, in this case: 0.0024/64.8 = 0.000037 seconds

Flowery moves a distance in this timeframe, i mentioned the 12.47 cuz its a value that came out of nowhere as i didnt see you calcing the distance

if Flowery did moves 12.47 meters, then the math its still fine



(also about the explanation on time you gave, doesnt it seems everything is slowed down only when Flowery is getting ready to fly? when he starts flying, the knight afterimages start moving)

 

[Breadbear83]

if you still want to use slow mo method, theres the fact that Flowery at least moves from his idle position (the smiling one) to crouching a bit while the Knight afterimages are indeed statued, that should be around High Hypersonic

 

[Arceus0x]

btw the base tier would probably have to be way above the current 7-B rating as we do have a whole-ass mountain range in the DW this time around. Afaik we currently scale Titan to baseline 7-B but with this it'd have to be something else and idk how to calc it.

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

So considering the whole princess thing with Ralsei do you think he is


a) Trans

b) Genderfluid

c) Still a feminine boy

d) (theory option) princess living as a 'prince' to fulfill the prophecy



?

Ralsei is still called a boy several times later in the chapter (during the Flowery fight and and by one of his ACT descriptions in the Pink fight), so if it is building up to something with his gender identity, I think it is more likely B.

Also the pink and blue colored drink is one of the weakest pieces of evidence for this IMO, idk why it is the most talked about.

 

[Randomuser3412]

if you still want to use slow mo method, theres the fact that Flowery at least moves from his idle position (the smiling one) to crouching a bit while the Knight afterimages are indeed statued, that should be around High Hypersonic

That's definitely not the intention if the afterimages are moving while Flowery is attacking (they are)

 

[DaReaperMan]

7-A. Do it. It'd be funny.

 

[Breadbear83]

btw the base tier would probably have to be way above the current 7-B rating as we do have a whole-ass mountain range in the DW this time around. Afaik we currently scale Titan to baseline 7-B but with this it'd have to be something else and idk how to calc it.

not all darkworld are neccesarily the same size, take a look at castle town

i think cyber world used to be the seemingly the biggest dark world as it had whole cities in the background, and the church also had large buildings far in the background

 

[Arceus0x]

7-A. Do it. It'd be funny.

feels like a lowball honestly

 

[Galactidot]

Ralsei is still called a boy several times later in the chapter (during the Flowery fight and and by one of his ACT descriptions in the Pink fight), so if it is building up to something with his gender identity, I think it is more likely B.

Yeah cuz he came out (he didn't)

We're talking closeted, the other characters can't read minds until Ralsei reveals it.

 

[Edutyn]

the links works, just they send you to a website to move frame by frame by yourself, but even in normal youtube you can move between frames by pressing ´´,´´ and ´´.´´

wait really?

for slowmo calculations, for example in the first method here, you still need the distance that the faster character (flowery) moves while the slower character (The Knight afterimages) are statued

with the knight afterimages speed and slow mo value, you rather get a timeframe, in this case: 0.0024/64.8 = 0.000037 seconds

Flowery moves a distance in this timeframe, i mentioned the 12.47 cuz its a value that came out of nowhere as i didnt see you calcing the distance

if Flowery did moves 12.47 meters, then the math its still fine

I was using this as reference, uh, guess a iwas wrong. The 12.47 is for superhuman speed since the example of slow motion uses the speed of an average human while the knight is cleary not

(also about the explanation on time you gave, doesnt it seems everything is slowed down only when Flowery is getting ready to fly? when he starts flying, the knight afterimages start moving)

he did crouch so i just i wil traid to calc that

 

[Randomuser3412]

Yeah cuz he came out (he didn't)

We're talking closeted, the other characters can't read minds until Ralsei reveals it.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[Arceus0x]

how Ralsei be coming out in the middle of the Roaring in the next chapters

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

Yeah cuz he came out (he didn't)

We're talking closeted, the other characters can't read minds until Ralsei reveals it.

One of them is from the menu though, which seems to be more of an omniscient thing rather than the character's narration, and is where the they/them pronouns evidence is from

 

[Galactidot]

Sorry, I couldn't resist

Well that's an obvious exception lol

 

[Breadbear83]

wait really?

I was using this as reference, uh, guess a iwas wrong. The 12.47 is for superhuman speed since the example of slow motion uses the speed of an average human while the knight is cleary not

he did crouch so i just i wil traid to calc that

for 12.47 would be applied to the slower character with the slow mo to get a timeframe, then distance

That's definitely not the intention if the afterimages are moving while Flowery is attacking (they are)

random is kinda right about this tho, like somehow hes faster while preparing to fly fast than when he actually flies fast?

 

[Randomuser3412]

Let me in your head, Ralsei. I'll only do good things in there! You can trust me! I took your good friend Kris for a swim earlier and it seemed like they enjoyed it!

 

[Galactidot]

One of them is from the menu though, which seems to be more of an omniscient thing rather than the character's narration, and is where the they/them pronouns evidence is from

As for those mentions you're talking about, I feel it was altered during that specific scene to make us think.

Until Ralsei says something, the game would have no reason to keep it "our little secret" and give it such weight before Susie and Kris even know.

 

[Galactidot]

how Ralsei be coming out in the middle of the Roaring in the next chapters

truth roaring gif

 

[Omegabronic]

So considering the whole princess thing with Ralsei do you think he is


a) Trans

b) Genderfluid

c) Still a feminine boy

d) (theory option) princess living as a 'prince' to fulfill the prophecy



?

F) Flowey was teasing him

 

[Randomuser3412]

E) Ralsei is December Holiday in a disguise (hey, if she can be in the Depths and lost in the code and in the lake and the Knight at the same time, she can be Ralsei too, right?)

 

[Galactidot]

F) Flowey was teasing him

"Flowey"