Why is the Model 38 (Phoenix-Killer Armor) 1-A?

[DuckyMcLucky]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I can't figure out why the Phoenix Force shown in AvX that Tony fragments into five pieces is 1-A.

I know that the Universal Phoenix Force's article says it's 1-A, but aren't there a ton of anti-feats in AvX? I checked, but I couldn't find anything that would apply to the phoenix shown coming to Earth. I also couldn't find any proof in the comic run that shows that the phoenix could use the entirety of the Phoenix Force's power.

I also looked at Cyclops's profile, and it says that when he's Dark Phoenix (which is the power all of the fragments of the Phoenix put together again, right?) he is only 3-A. Wouldn't this mean that the Phoenix that Tony fragmented would scale similarly?

I might've missed/misunderstood something, so apologies in advance.

 

[Rgerdeena]

I know that the Universal Phoenix Force's article says it's 1-A, but aren't there a ton of anti-feats in AvX? I checked, but I couldn't find anything that would apply to the phoenix shown coming to Earth. I also couldn't find any proof in the comic run that shows that the phoenix could use the entirety of the Phoenix Force's power.

Can you name any of those anti feats in particular?, just would prefer what your argument is based on, also why would we assume that the phoenix force can’t use it’s own full power

I also looked at Cyclops's profile, and it says that when he's Dark Phoenix (which is the power all of the fragments of the Phoenix put together again, right?) he is only 3-A. Wouldn't this mean that the Phoenix that Tony fragmented would scale similarly?

The Phoenix force itself is a lot stronger than it’s hosts

 

[DuckyMcLucky]

Can you name any of those anti feats in particular?, just would prefer what your argument is based on, also why would we assume that the phoenix force can’t use it’s own full power

The Phoenix force itself is a lot stronger than it’s hosts

Let me try and list some (I'm not exactly the most well versed on 1-A scaling):

The Phoenix Force we see in AvX has to travel to Earth, which wouldn't make sense to me if it was using the entirety of the Universal Phoenix Force (was also slower than Nova, who made it to Earth before the Phoenix did by days)

The fact that Cyclops when he becomes Dark Phoenix is only 3-A

Assuming that the Phoenix Force creates avatars of itself similar to how Abstracts use m-bodies (which is supported by the Phoenix Force's profile: "The Phoenix is neither being nor entity, it is a force, the sum and substance of all that lives, and it is the literal concept of life itself in opposition to the abstract Death, using avatars in contrast to Death's M-Bodies."), then it would mean that the avatar shown in AvX is not necessarily 1-A

(also, why don't we have a key for the Phoenix Force's avatars we see moving around? i would assume that all of a 1-A being couldn't just pop into Earth-616's universe without insane consequences)

Thor seems to harm the Phoenix, which wouldn't make sense as he consistently holds back, and his profile says that his AP would only scale to 1-A if he taps into the Phoenix Force or uses his God Blast, which both are visibly not being used

The Model 38 seems to use a weakness of the Phoenix Force? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this wouldn't work on other 1-A beings on a similar level to the Universal Phoenix Force

 

[Rgerdeena]

The Phoenix Force we see in AvX has to travel to Earth, which wouldn't make sense to me if it was using the entirety of the Universal Phoenix Force (was also slower than Nova, who made it to Earth before the Phoenix did by days)

Could just be an anti feat for their omnipresence

The fact that Cyclops when he becomes Dark Phoenix is only 3-A

Like I said before phoenix force is stronger than it’s hosts by a lot

Assuming that the Phoenix Force creates avatars of itself similar to how Abstracts use m-bodies (which is supported by the Phoenix Force's profile: "The Phoenix is neither being nor entity, it is a force, the sum and substance of all that lives, and it is the literal concept of life itself in opposition to the abstract Death, using avatars in contrast to Death's M-Bodies."), then it would mean that the avatar shown in AvX is not necessarily 1-A

I’m like 76% sure that by avatars it means the hosts not the fire bird, albeit the profile and scan are kind of unclear so I could be wrong

(also, why don't we have a key for the Phoenix Force's avatars we see moving around? i would assume that all of a 1-A being couldn't just pop into Earth-616's universe without insane consequences)

That is a problem for a lot more characters than just phoenix, a problem that hopefully is going to be fixed soon

Thor seems to harm the Phoenix, which wouldn't make sense as he consistently holds back, and his profile says that his AP would only scale to 1-A if he taps into the Phoenix Force or uses his God Blast, which both are visibly not being used

by what’s currently accepted Thor’s able to be 1-A by just not holding back, which is presumably what he was doing against the phoenix, albeit that’s going to get revised pretty soon

The Model 38 seems to use a weakness of the Phoenix Force? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this wouldn't work on other 1-A beings on a similar level to the Universal Phoenix Force

That’s actually a pretty good point, if he was exploiting a weakness based on some big bang shenanigans then I agree that the phoenix buster shouldn’t scale to the phoenix

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Let me try and list some (I'm not exactly the most well versed on 1-A scaling):

The Phoenix Force we see in AvX has to travel to Earth, which wouldn't make sense to me if it was using the entirety of the Universal Phoenix Force (was also slower than Nova, who made it to Earth before the Phoenix did by days)

Not quite an anti feat, Nova was faster because Phoenix was destroying everything in it's path planet by planet, one of the planets by the way was being protected by Terrax(Point one #1). Phoenix was probably delayed by beings on planets it was destroying, and since Phoenix was destroying the planets instead of simply going for earth it was slower.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Thor seems to harm the Phoenix, which wouldn't make sense as he consistently holds back, and his profile says that his AP would only scale to 1-A if he taps into the Phoenix Force or uses his God Blast, which both are visibly not being used

Thor is Low 1-A to 1-A at peak and with God Blast, his profile uses L1-A and 1-A for peak Thor while not holding back, so not an anti feat.

 

[DuckyMcLucky]

Not quite an anti feat, Nova was faster because Phoenix was destroying everything in it's path planet by planet, one of the planets by the way was being protected by Terrax(Point one #1). Phoenix was probably delayed by beings on planets it was destroying, and since Phoenix was destroying the planets instead of simply going for earth it was slower.

Saying Terrax was protecting Birj is a bit of an overstatement considering this is what happened to him as soon as the Phoenix arrived, and that the timeframe of Birj's surface being destroyed is vague, but it is likely that it was almost immediate (if the Phoenix is holding 1-A power, it should be)

Also, wouldn't your claim that the Phoenix was delayed by beings on planets only be an assumption? We are shown that the Phoenix also wasn't really targeting other planets as it is depicted just flying over other planets in AvX.

Thor is Low 1-A to 1-A at peak and with God Blast, his profile uses L1-A and 1-A for peak Thor while not holding back, so not an anti feat.

Yeah can't really say anything about that, I just completely misread the profile

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Saying Terrax was protecting Birj is a bit of an overstatement considering this is what happened to him as soon as the Phoenix arrived, and that the timeframe of Birj's surface being destroyed is vague, but it is likely that it was almost immediate (if the Phoenix is holding 1-A power, it should be)

Vague timeframe doesn't allow for concrete answers, if Terrax delays the Phoenix by 1 second it's already a lot for MFTL+ people, and Terrax states that he controlled the planet down to every grain of sand so Phoenix taking longer to destroy the planet makes sense.

Also, wouldn't your claim that the Phoenix was delayed by beings on planets only be an assumption? We are shown that the Phoenix also wasn't really targeting other planets as it is depicted just flying over other planets in AvX.

It seems a valid assumption, Nova states he was warning planets while on his way to earth giving them a chance of survival it's not a big leap to assume at least some planets fought back the Phoenix before being destroyed.
It's not like we can also state the Phoenix was in a hurry, so we really don't have any reason to assume the speed was Phoenix's top speed.

 

[DuckyMcLucky]

Vague timeframe doesn't allow for concrete answers, if Terrax delays the Phoenix by 1 second it's already a lot for MFTL+ people, and Terrax states that he controlled the planet down to every grain of sand so Phoenix taking longer to destroy the planet makes sense.

It seems a valid assumption, Nova states he was warning planets while on his way to earth giving them a chance of survival it's not a big leap to assume at least some planets fought back the Phoenix before being destroyed.
It's not like we can also state the Phoenix was in a hurry, so we really don't have any reason to assume the speed was Phoenix's top speed.

Isn't the Phoenix stated to have immeasurable speed in its profile when it takes a form? Delaying an immeasurable speed character by a second doesn't and shouldn't mean anything, right?

Also, what are your thoughts on the Model 38 scaling to the Phoenix? It's the main reason I made this thread because it is a weird outlier in the 1-A tier.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Isn't the Phoenix stated to have immeasurable speed in its profile when it takes a form? Delaying an immeasurable speed character by a second doesn't and shouldn't mean anything, right?

Being capable of reaching immensurable doesn't mean Phoenix is always at that speed, like always for Plot reasons they make things slower, Flash is capable of immensurable speed and still gets late to his job

Also, what are your thoughts on the Model 38 scaling to the Phoenix? It's the main reason I made this thread because it is a weird outlier in the 1-A tier.

I don't know, I didn't read that specific comic where they fought.

 

[Hecky2222]

I planned to nuke them to Low 1-A very soon . Nevertheless doesn't fit standards