Madness Combat Discussion Thread: Redeemer

[Employe]

I think Dissonant should have Acausal Type 5

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

We know that Dissonant strips away the very logic which among many thing defines Causality

This is hella busted because it will make basically anyone who is imbued with it (i.e, Gestalt, Ghost Phobos, Tricky, Dissonant Ghosts) practically untouchable as well as dissonant reality itself will be almost impossible to affect (meaning no sneaky power null shenanigans will work here)

 

[CitRusReality64]

Seems fine to me. Also works for Causality Manipulation

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I think Dissonant should have Acausal Type 5

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

We know that Dissonant strips away the very logic which among many thing defines Causality

This is hella busted because it will make basically anyone who is imbued with it (i.e, Gestalt, Ghost Phobos, Tricky, Dissonant Ghosts) practically untouchable as well as dissonant reality itself will be almost impossible to affect (meaning no sneaky power null shenanigans will work here)

Assuming this degree of defense is actually legit & not a stretch, what explanation do you propose for the protags being able to damage, say, Ghost Phobos at all? I remember Jeb was operating a Divergence Machine necessary to seal the deal, and there were dissonance weapons in the arena they could use, but normal bullets and blades still did damage to him.

 

[Employe]

Assuming this degree of defense is actually legit & not a stretch, what explanation do you propose for the protags being able to damage, say, Ghost Phobos at all? I remember Jeb was operating a Divergence Machine necessary to seal the deal, and there were dissonance weapons in the arena they could use, but normal bullets and blades still did damage to him.

It is should be noted that they weren't able to truly "kill him", just sealed away in TOP, but I will look on this more. Maybe shall check some opinions of Krinkels on how dissonant reality and characters exposed to it interact with The Machine

 

[Comiphorous]

Assuming this degree of defense is actually legit & not a stretch, what explanation do you propose for the protags being able to damage, say, Ghost Phobos at all? I remember Jeb was operating a Divergence Machine necessary to seal the deal, and there were dissonance weapons in the arena they could use, but normal bullets and blades still did damage to him.

In all fairness, they didn't really "harm" him at all, he was even completely willing to come back right after his defeat to fight them again. they more or less just wanted him not in Nevada so they trapped him out of it instead of inside it.

Any mod who looks at it will question it though, so y'all better make up a better explanation than what i just wrote cuz that probably won't cut it.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Upon my inevitable replay, I'll take more note on the Divergence Machine that Christoff operated to make Gestalt vulnerable and seal Phobos. It was likely being used to make Phobos vulnerable (albeit not killable) during the fight itself, too, perhaps even responsible for that cool visual effect where Phobos is "glitching" to his corporeal model. More satisfying explanation than gameplay mechanics being what makes him (barely) vulnerable to non-Dissonant attacks. Think this base is covered, but I figured I'd bring it up so as none of us got surprised.

Though aside from that bit of logical consideration, I don't yet have any comment on your actual Acasual proposal, Employe. I'll leave that to more site-active people who have more defined preferences for extrapolating on abilities' overlapping properties.

Anyway, you two lemme know when you've finished getting everything else you wanted to add to your CRTs and I'll see about rekindling momentum. Might as well just do as many additions as possible in as few CRTs as possible so as to not hit the concurrent limit and have to wait an age for every individual thing.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Employe, I don't have that scan about the robots using sonic blasters to break rock -- any idea where specifically that came up? -- but perhaps Tricky's screaming (or aura?) cracking the concrete around him here has a similar effect despite Hank weathering it without issue.

And for any prospective Retainer profile, they might have Summoning if his shaking his fists coinciding with the emergence of backup troops from the ground here is anything to go by. It could have been a coincidence, but off the top of my head I don't recall guys ever popping up from the ground like that elsewhere except for the supporting example of the very deliberate summoning (of A.A.H.W. agents) by Tricky in MC11.

 

[Employe]

I think it could serve as an example of Hank's attack reflection

 

[Employe]

Employe, I don't have that scan about the robots using sonic blasters to break rock -- any idea where specifically that came up? -- but perhaps Tricky's screaming (or aura?) cracking the concrete around him here has a similar effect despite Hank weathering it without issue.

Honestly? No clue, but I presume it is somewhere in Mining Sector, it is nice to spot Tricky's thing, though. I want to cook sound resistances from this

 

[Employe]

https://madnesscombat.fandom.com/wiki/Thaumergy

Hm, this page contains some interesting Krinkels statements that further support potency of Dissonant and Magic

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

That bit with Attack Reflection got resolved; I've been and will be away but the Soldat & the Hank profile are ok to be fixed to remove and improve the listing, respectively. Iirc Sanford, Deimos, and Halo-less Jeb are also shoo-ins thanks to having the same skill in PNC, too, but that especially can wait until their little profile revamps later.

Oh, and consider the feat of only losing a single unit of damage (climbing out as opposed to being killed outright or even just teleporting back gameplay-mechanics style) when falling into the molten-metal pool in that factory map from PN2 as well as not outright folding to the big flame vents and such as heat-resistance showings, something to look into.

 

[Employe]

That bit with Attack Reflection got resolved; I've been and will be away but the Soldat & the Hank profile are ok to be fixed to remove and improve the listing, respectively. Iirc Sanford, Deimos, and Halo-less Jeb are also shoo-ins thanks to having the same skill in PNC, too, but that especially can wait until their little profile revamps later.

Soldats, Deimos, Sanford and Haloless Jeb should have it removed since they can't actually reflect bullets (or even deflect, iirc)

Oh, and consider the feat of only losing a single unit of damage (climbing out as opposed to being killed outright or even just teleporting back gameplay-mechanics style) when falling into the molten-metal pool in that factory map from PN2 as well as not outright folding to the big flame vents and such as heat-resistance showings, something to look into.

They already will receive Heat resistances from tanking dissonant reality, but sure

 

[Comiphorous]

Soldats, Deimos, Sanford and Haloless Jeb should have ut removed since they can't actually reflect bullets

Halo-less Jeb isn't a thing on his page, and deimos and sanford definitely qualify for it, i just don't think they have an example of it in the animations.

 

[Employe]

Halo-less Jeb isn't a thing on his page, and deimos and sanford definitely qualify for it, i just don't think they have an example of it in the animations

For Jeb I was answering to Freeman. Also neither Sanford or Deimos actually possess any feats to suggest them being able to reflect bullets

 

[Employe]

For Jeb I was answering to Freeman. Also neither Sanford or Deimos actually possess any feats to suggest them being able to reflect bullets

Wait, nevermined, Jeb's page does mention him reflecting bullets with weapons which is blatantly untrue

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Soldats, Deimos, Sanford and Haloless Jeb should have it removed since they can't actually reflect bullets (or even deflect, iirc)

I thought you said the other playable characters could get that same bullet-deflection skill in PNC, disregard my point if I'm wrong on that. And I figure halo-less Jeb will be a key to make at some point due to what Krinkles is cooking up with that Ded Jeb adventure.

Oh, and one more thing to figure into the cosmology blog, Comiphorous: Prime Code. I don't think that the existence of the Prime Blade and such will be an anti-feat for The Machine since it was willingly granting Prime Code to the Employers to work with, the Employers were in contact with Project Nexus, and Prime Code isn't necessarily on the same level as the fullness of The Machine itself besides (major point to determine). But it should be covered for the sake of comprehensiveness in any case.