Undertale: They're non-binary

[Comiphorous]

Frisk

Frisk is the protagonist of Undertale and the eighth human to fall into the Underground. Virtually nothing is known about their life prior to their fall, as even their gender remains ambiguous. Being taken in by Toriel, they eventually decide to leave and explore the Underground to potentially...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Chara

Chara was the first human to fall into the Underground. They were adopted by King Asgore and Queen Toriel after being rescued by their son Asriel, becoming an adoptive member of the family. Not much is know about the child's past or personality while they were alive, but they were described by...

vsbattles.fandom.com

A CRT for Kris was made to change their gender section to Non-Binary, which reminded me that these two are classified as unknown as well, and have been for some time.

Just like their distant cousin Kris Dreemurr of Deltarune, Chara and Frisk are non-binary characters who go by They/Them for the whole game, with Chara going by it/it's occasionally as well. Toby refers to them in the same manner.

Very simple.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Makes sense to me. Agreed.

 

[Omegabronic]

Frisk

Frisk is the protagonist of Undertale and the eighth human to fall into the Underground. Virtually nothing is known about their life prior to their fall, as even their gender remains ambiguous. Being taken in by Toriel, they eventually decide to leave and explore the Underground to potentially...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Chara

Chara was the first human to fall into the Underground. They were adopted by King Asgore and Queen Toriel after being rescued by their son Asriel, becoming an adoptive member of the family. Not much is know about the child's past or personality while they were alive, but they were described by...

vsbattles.fandom.com

A CRT for Kris was made to change their gender section to Non-Binary, which reminded me that these two are classified as unknown as well, and have been for some time.

Just like their distant cousin Kris Dreemurr of Deltarune, Chara and Frisk are non-binary characters who go by They/Them for the whole game, with Chara going by it/it's occasionally as well. Toby refers to them in the same manner.

Very simple.

Since this is the same argument, I'll just link the same response of the other thread

"They/Them" actually are gender neutral pronouns, we don't know what gender Kris identifies as, if any, they can equally be used for people who don't identify as any gender at all, or, for an outside meta perspective, simply be used as a way to not reveal or indicate any gender for a character for any particular reason or another


I don't see how that proves anything? Or correlates for that matter? They/Them is STILL not Nonbinary exclussive, pronouns alone don't prove any particular gender in this case regardless of Kris being their own character or not



You would still need to prove this is because they are, specifically, Nonbinary, instead of not identifying as any gender, or because Toby simply didn't want to asign a specific gender to them and simply wanted to leave it open to interpretation


Toby didn't correct them, nor did anyone there seemed to even notice that "he" was used... again, pronouns alone do not prove gender here, the pronoun is gender neutral, not Nonbinary exclusive

So i disagree, the page already conveys the true meaning of "they/them" as being neutral and capable of referring to any gender, aka, we simply don't know Kris' gender as of now

 

[RubyVeronica]

Isn't chara/frisk being called they/them because Toby fox mentions their actual gender can be up to intepretation? So I don't think they are actually non-binary

 

[Comiphorous]

Isn't chara/frisk being called they/them because Toby fox mentions their actual gender can be up to intepretation? So I don't think they are actually non-binary

This isn't 2016. They are their own characters and have been. They're just non-binary, it aint up to interpretation and hasn't been for a long time.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Why do you need a crt for this

 

[Comiphorous]

Why do you need a crt for this

Their pages are locked because they're tier 1 royalty.

 

[Omegabronic]

This isn't 2016. They are their own characters and have been. They're just non-binary, it aint up to interpretation and hasn't been for a long time.

Considering that "being their own character" has nothing to do with "the gender of the character is up to interpretation"... I really don't see your point here? Specially since for some reason you are acting as if gender neutral pronouns specify a gender instead of... being neutral, specially when agender people exist, which can equally use "they/them"

 

[ScoutManeater]

I feel like this is alot more ambiguous then Kris cuz unlike Kris both of them have not confirmed to be non binary just using ambiguous pronouns its alot more controversial and I feel like Unknown is the right term

 

[Omegabronic]

Also for more reasons as to why "They/Them" is used in its gender neutral way





Toby uses "They/Them" for Monster Kid specifically because he didn't want to assign any specific gender to them, so we have precedent for how and why Toby uses "They/Them" for his characters

 

[ScoutManeater]

Also for more reasons as to why "They/Them" is used in its gender neutral way





Toby uses "They/Them" for Monster Kid specifically because he didn't want to assign any specific gender to them, so we have precedent for how and why Toby uses "They/Them" for his characters

This and also in a interview he skipped a question asking about Frisk and Chara's gender
Interviewer: "The protagonist in UNDERTALE is of ambiguous gender. This is also true of many of the monsters he/she encounters along the way. Was this a design choice, and what role does androgyny play in your vision of the world?"
Toby Fox: "Skip."
Though I agree with Kris being changed I do not agree with this and should be left as unknown as I think any gender applied to chara or frisk whether girl boy or non binary is fine as I feel like its up to interpretation

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Also for more reasons as to why "They/Them" is used in its gender neutral way





Toby uses "They/Them" for Monster Kid specifically because he didn't want to assign any specific gender to them, so we have precedent for how and why Toby uses "They/Them" for his characters

This is just a comment from the translators saying that Monster Kid has "no specified gender", it's not directly from Toby himself so using it to say Toby's characters aren't intended to be Non-Binary is uhhh... certainly a take (Also doesn't that book also make it clear when they are directly quoting Toby for things like Determination or something?)

I think the only major problemswith both this and the other DR is the fact they only provide evidence that They/Them are used for the characters but not WHY it should be taken as evidence for Non-Binary and not something like "I'm using Gender Neutral pronouns because I don't know this guy and I'm trying to be respectful!". I know that Kris has lots of strong arguments supporting the former than the latter, so I'm fine with how their CRT is going at least.

 

[Omegabronic]

This is just a comment from the translators saying that Monster Kid has "no specified gender", it's not directly from Toby himself so using it to say Toby's characters aren't intended to be Non-Binary is uhhh... certainly a take (Also doesn't that book also make it clear when they are directly quoting Toby for things like Determination or something?)

This page literally says Toby was consulted for this part... It is information taken directly from him

I am simply saying Toby uses "They/Them" as gender neutral/ambiguous too... so one should not disregard that if the only argument is that "they use They/Them"

I think the only major problemswith both this and the other DR is the fact they only provide evidence that They/Them are used for the characters but not WHY it should be taken as evidence for Non-Binary and not something like "I'm using Gender Neutral pronouns because I don't know this guy and I'm trying to be respectful!". I know that Kris has lots of strong arguments supporting the former than the latter, so I'm fine with how their CRT is going at least.

Also They/Them are neutral terms, doesn't need to refer to Non-Binary necessarily

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't know much about this whole gender and pronoun thing, but from what I see online (and on Twitter), isn't it usually flexible? Like, a person of the female gender, doesn't necessarily limit themselves to using only female pronouns to refer to themselves (they might use neutral or masculine ones too). I think I've seen that on Twitter.

Take the Japanese language, for instance. There’s the personal pronoun boku, which is used almost exclusively by men. But that doesn't stop women from using it, even though it’s quite rare. For example, Diane from Nanatsu no Taizai uses (or used—I'm not sure if she stopped) boku to refer to herself. And I don't think anyone here doubts her gender just because she uses a pronoun mostly used by men.

Like, can someone who only wants to use "they/them" pronouns to refer to themselves only be non-binary? Isn't there ever a case where someone identifies as one gender or the other but prefers using neutral pronouns? I'm pretty sure I've seen something like that around.

 

[Mythic381]

Disagree FRA. I don't really see how the points necessarily prove them being non-binary, the pronouns in question are gender neutral.