Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[Deonment]

I will put them in 14th as a placeholder until its decide their spots.

?
No, they pretty handily beat everybody on the list up to EBF passively, and EBF only wins cause it has passive unresisted hax that actually kills instead of just incapping

Also remove Lindon and Wang Wei, they're both smurfs

I'm also thinking of a spot for Recollector in High 6-C. What are the characters there main shenanigans? Ard, Ning in that key (I forgot ngl), etc...?

Ning does not have anything against the plot stuff of recollector, he doesn't even have Dao Domain that early, he loses
Bebe has CM1 and like, trillions of souls worth soul potency in that key, but it doesn't get through the MM3, and the latter doesn't matter given the whole plot-soul stuff
The main thing that'll prolly be an issue is Grimm=Grimm, who should prolly be higher up on the list anyway, given Cracking and Critter bullshit, but everything on that front is already encompassed by something Recollector already has, though Chronomancy won't directly work seeing as the nature of Critters has them lacking even a concept of time

 

[Lou_change]

I mean how do they deal with Garou throwing a punch that creates an explosion that seems to be around a hundred time their own rating from 4 kilometers away?

 

[Rikimarox2]

The main thing that'll prolly be an issue is Grimm=Grimm, who should prolly be higher up on the list anyway, given Cracking and Critter bullshit, but everything on that front is already encompassed by something Recollector already has, though Chronomancy won't directly work seeing as the nature of Critters has them lacking even a concept of time

What are their main shenanigans? Furthermore, even if Chronomancy doesn't work directly, Recollector can still do the whole plot absorption or even Possession, if needed. BFR also exists. Though I might need to create a VSmatch if they are that nuts.

 

[Dragonite007]

?
No, they pretty handily beat everybody on the list up to EBF passively, and EBF only wins cause it has passive unresisted hax that actually kills instead of just incapping

Bought this game on steam, maybe I will play later
Changed

Also remove Lindon and Wang Wei, they're both smurfs

Another Pokemon W
Removed

Make me angry see this imageless character trying to have the same rights, that characters with image have

 

[Planck69]

I mean how do they deal with Garou throwing a punch that creates an explosion that seems to be around a hundred time their own rating from 4 kilometers away?

They just think and Garou thinks he's still Bang's student lol. They have Interstellar range with their illusions/reality warping.

 

[Lou_change]

They just think and Garou thinks he's still Bang's student lol. They have Interstellar range with their illusions/reality warping.

Massively ftl vs ftl also they can can do that with their Illusions their profiles provide so little context regarding that as in pretty much none?

 

[Deonment]

What are their main shenanigans? Furthermore, even if Chronomancy doesn't work directly, Recollector can still do the whole plot absorption or even Possession, if needed. BFR also exists. Though I might need to create a VSmatch if they are that nuts.

I don't think it's enough, especially considering What A Beautiful hasn't touched plot to my knowledge, but eh
To go down into the list of what Grimm is
What Grimm personally has
Grimm is an entity born from the feelings of the Grand Prince, existing as a nonexistent illusion, not listing the rest
It is a cracking entity, both Critter and Kikai, which together makes Grimm a further abstract entity on Equations (Cracking), Possibilities (41 lives which never got to be), Terror, Death, and Information, with Invul that stretches to Cracking and type 8 on a law that dictates that they can never die, just existing around them causes madness, with Grimm's madness being particular strong enough to affect other Critters and people who can resist their madness that affect a good chunk but it's been a bit since I've seen the args thrown around, so Pegasus may correct me on that
Grimm has access to Cracking, which is math, physics, matter, RW, SR, law, IM2, that can do space, probability, void, and causality

 

[Planck69]

Massively ftl vs ftl also they can can do that with their Illusions their profiles provide so little context regarding that as in pretty much none?

The entire plot of GoW Ascension is them doing that to Kratos with illusions. And they have passive madness hax anyways so it doesn't matter.

This does remind me that I need to spruce up their profiles though.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Given the verse is purely IM2 stuff, nah



Speed is equalized at a baseline

Regen neg doesn't matter here

Doesn't matter against Kakine since Inorganic

Can u elaborate on these? Isis can kill inorganic things, along with IM2. And what does regen neg not mattering here mean?

If it's a high godly regen thing then I guess rip until this gets added, but yeah I don't see how he is living her death hax with these. Which in sba iirc is passive bc she won't be holding back (unserious some of the potent hax aren't passive tho. But serjous it becomes death and EE stuff

 

[Legacy30]

Would have to do it instantly; otherwise, she would basically have to scour the entire planet for subatomic particles

Her range is outdated. It's supposed to be planetary to interstellar as a Peak Count. And considering her speed if MFTL+, if she pops off time stop then she could seal him in less than a second within it. She gets back the speed advantage with slowing down time and reversing its flow. Kakine also doesn't resist gravity manipulation/telekinesis, combine that with planetary range and it's gonna be a repeat of his fate vs Accelerator in their first fight. Not to mention with Duplication Kakine has to fight multiples of her.

 

[Deonment]

Can u elaborate on these? Isis can kill inorganic things, along with IM2. And what does regen neg not mattering here mean?

If it's a high godly regen thing then I guess rip until this gets added, but yeah I don't see how he is living her death hax with these

I did not separate that well enough. I wasn't talking about Isis there, meant for vier. Isis takes Fudo's spot

Her range is outdated. It's supposed to be planetary to interstellar as a Peak Count. And considering her speed if MFTL+, if she pops off time stop then she could seal him in less than a second within it. She gets back the speed advantage with slowing down time and reversing its flow. Kakine also doesn't resist gravity manipulation/telekinesis, combine that with planetary range and it's gonna be a repeat of his fate vs Accelerator in their first fight. Not to mention with Duplication Kakine has to fight multiples of her.

Okay, sure

 

[BoastJr]

If it's a high godly regen thing then I guess rip until this gets added, but yeah I don't see how he is living her death hax with these. Which in sba iirc is passive bc she won't be holding back (unserious some of the potent hax aren't passive tho. But serjous it becomes death and EE stuff

To elaborate on this

Isis has 2 modes where

1. She normally does not kill everything around her as she tries to hold back her Death Aura (This is Unserious Isis who is more common in non combat scenarios)

2. She EEs or Kills everything around her because her Death Aura gets extremely potent based on her emotions (This is "Serious" Isis who is more common in a Battle to the Death. She is basically semi-bloodlusted)

 

[Lou_change]

The entire plot of GoW Ascension is them doing that to Kratos with illusions. And they have passive madness hax anyways so it doesn't matter.

This does remind me that I need to spruce up their profiles though.

I didn't realize the illusions could make you forget which part of your life you are at. Also, I really don't understand the passive mind hax it seems to have taken a while and I am left confused to how the linked part of the interview confirms they did it just by existing? Even if it is instant and passive the range sounds like it is proximity based and relatively close at that. The Garou's range, speed, and ap seems like it should allow him to deal with them all from a safe distance before they do. I think they do beat several characters above him however because they have resistences I mainly just think it is weird to have someone at the top of the list who is not effectively immune to someone who just has big numbers.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I don't think it's enough, especially considering What A Beautiful hasn't touched plot to my knowledge, but eh
To go down into the list of what Grimm is
What Grimm personally has
Grimm is an entity born from the feelings of the Grand Prince, existing as a nonexistent illusion, not listing the rest
It is a cracking entity, both Critter and Kikai, which together makes Grimm a further abstract entity on Equations (Cracking), Possibilities (41 lives which never got to be), Terror, Death, and Information, with Invul that stretches to Cracking and type 8 on a law that dictates that they can never die, just existing around them causes madness, with Grimm's madness being particular strong enough to affect other Critters and people who can resist their madness that affect a good chunk but it's been a bit since I've seen the args thrown around, so Pegasus may correct me on that
Grimm has access to Cracking, which is math, physics, matter, RW, SR, law, IM2, that can do space, probability, void, and causality

Yeah I'm not sure that is enough to stop the plot absorption or BFR, or any of its Narrative shenanigans ngl. Not to mention that the Recollector's Madness stuff is pretty damn potent (being able to somehow affect Acausal entities, though I do not know if that counts as potency), such as screwing over dudes even when they have Madness Resistance (and just being an Outsider in general, with some Outsiders having more potent Madness stuff).

The rivers of time stuff also still exists, so honestly, at worst I see it as being an Incon, but I think a match might be needed. Though I'm pretty sure no one else on the list can do anything against the Recollector, no?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Male Pregnancy (the character who has male pregnancy powers) stomps every male on this list FRA

 

[Deonment]

Yeah I'm not sure that is enough to stop the plot absorption or BFR, or any of its Narrative shenanigans ngl. Not to mention that the Recollector's Madness stuff is pretty damn potent (being able to somehow affect Acausal entities, though I do not know if that counts as potency), such as screwing over dudes even when they have Madness Resistance (and just being an Outsider in general, with some Outsiders having more potent Madness stuff).

The rivers of time stuff also still exists, so honestly, at worst I see it as being an Incon, but I think a match might be needed. Though I'm pretty sure no one else on the list can do anything against the Recollector, no?

No, I don't think anyone else on the list can really contend, and as I said I'm pretty sure Grimm just loses anyways

 

[BoastJr]

Male Pregnancy (the character who has male pregnancy powers) stomps every male on this list FRA

Goku solos that Fraud FRA

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Goku solos that Fraud FRA

Goku is pregnant now

 

[BoastJr]

Goku can just use the Fusion Dance technique to turn into Gogeta and when they defuse the pregnancy transfers over to Vegeta instead

 

[Rikimarox2]

Goku can just use the Fusion Dance technique to turn into Gogeta and when they defuse the pregnancy transfers over to Vegeta instead

No, I don't think anyone else on the list can really contend, and as I said I'm pretty sure Grimm just loses anyways

Yeah, in that case, I don't think anyone has a problem with Recollector taking the first spot @Dragonite007

 

[Tatsumi504]

Male Pregnancy (the character who has male pregnancy powers) stomps every male on this list FRA

@SuperNova55555 Great Mother's profile when?

 

[Planck69]

I didn't realize the illusions could make you forget which part of your life you are at. Also, I really don't understand the passive mind hax it seems to have taken a while and I am left confused to how the linked part of the interview confirms they did it just by existing? Even if it is instant and passive the range sounds like it is proximity based and relatively close at that. The Garou's range, speed, and ap seems like it should allow him to deal with them all from a safe distance before they do. I think they do beat several characters above him however because they have resistences I mainly just think it is weird to have someone at the top of the list who is not effectively immune to someone who just has big numbers.

They made Archimedes go insane and eventually die just by proximity to the Island of Delos. Garou is well within range of that.

The death is what takes time, not the insanity.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

@SuperNova55555 Great Mother's profile when?

wont beat the GOAT

“And you didn’t inform me—” Shiv’s mind did a U-turn just then. “There's an orc named Male-Pregnancy.”

“It’s what he calls himself.”

“Felling why?” Shiv moaned. Helix didn’t answer. Instead, his expression twitched, and slowly, a smile crept across his face until it went ear to ear. Shiv sighed. “Broken ******* Moon, you guys are complete freaks.”

“It is a viable means of psychological warfare,” an unseen orc in the crowd said. “It is also my psycho-sexual fetish. I make no apologies. I’ll do it again. I will never stop.”

 

[Minaaaa]

Remove GARO characters from 4-A & 3-C, theyre 8-A now.

Guilles, Mahito & Kikaider are outhaxxed and outranged.
Junko has no way of hurting any of them & is outhaxxed.
Barago resists Crowfather's ice + dimensional travel so BFR doesn't work & mid-godly regen + Eyrith has spatial/temportal BFR across interdimensional distances
Han nor Eclipse can hurt them or get past barago's regen
Henry only has time manip but is severely outhaxxed
Tenna has soul hax but the fight depends on if he can negate barago's regen + activate his contracts in time before the other two get to him
Azur Lane can beat them but depends of if they resist BFR, if not then Eyrith can beat them
Shana seemingly cant hurt them? I see no soul hax but looks like they can turn their NEP on and off? someone can explain their stuff more if they know
They could beat Hunter (if their passives ever get accepted), but for now they can stop at Shana

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I don't think it's enough, especially considering What A Beautiful hasn't touched plot to my knowledge, but eh
To go down into the list of what Grimm is
What Grimm personally has
Grimm is an entity born from the feelings of the Grand Prince, existing as a nonexistent illusion, not listing the rest
It is a cracking entity, both Critter and Kikai, which together makes Grimm a further abstract entity on Equations (Cracking), Possibilities (41 lives which never got to be), Terror, Death, and Information, with Invul that stretches to Cracking and type 8 on a law that dictates that they can never die, just existing around them causes madness, with Grimm's madness being particular strong enough to affect other Critters and people who can resist their madness that affect a good chunk but it's been a bit since I've seen the args thrown around, so Pegasus may correct me on that
Grimm has access to Cracking, which is math, physics, matter, RW, SR, law, IM2, that can do space, probability, void, and causality

Yea, basically correct, Grimm is hard to affect because he is an abstract being that is the possibilities of 41 unborn lives, terror, death, he is also emotions/dreams of everyone in Inganock + being nonexistent, and by virtue of being a Cracking being he is made of Cracking which is over a dozen abilities such a math manipulation, reality warping, causality manipulation etc.

Not only is he invulnerable to that stuff, he can bypass that kind of invulnerability, and all his abilities are Cracking. Idk when it got removed, but Grimm's presence alone scared Porshion from coming out despite it resisting Critter's abilities which are also Cracking, and their various mind/madness/fear manipulation.

But yea, he passively hits you with 12+ hax abilities which bypass resistances.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Remove GARO characters from 4-A & 3-C, theyre 8-A now.

How tf does one even drop in stats like that

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yea, basically correct, Grimm is hard to affect because he is an abstract being that is the possibilities of 41 unborn lives, terror, death, he is also emotions/dreams of everyone in Inganock + being nonexistent, and by virtue of being a Cracking being he is made of Cracking which is over a dozen abilities such a math manipulation, reality warping, causality manipulation etc.

Not only is he invulnerable to that stuff, he can bypass that kind of invulnerability, and all his abilities are Cracking. Idk when it got removed, but Grimm's presence alone scared Porshion from coming out despite it resisting Critter's abilities which are also Cracking, and their various mind/madness/fear manipulation.

But yea, he passively hits you with 12+ hax abilities which bypass resistances.

Do you think they'll beat Recollector, or would you like an actual match to be made? To clarify, Recollector also has the Madness shenanigans (Which works on even Acausal beings), and has multiple rivers of time which it exists across, and would not ever die (regardless of what you hit it with) unless every single instance of it has died. Furthermore, even those instances that exist in the past are able to attack (and do). Oh yeah, pretty much every attack they have is Plot Manip-based as well (Not just spawned by the plot or whatever, but they are actively manipulating the plot itself). Oh and it also simiarly has pretty potent Resistance Negation, and resistance to it as well.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Metaphysical hax such as plot manipulation and information type 2, are all treated as being equivalent so unless they can interact with all that, then they plot hax shouldn't do anything to Grimm. Though currently Grimm and Kikai information aspect isn't clarified, despite info type 2 being a thing on the Cracking page, and Grimm and co being made of Cracking, must have forgot it, they can attack information as in controlling the internet basically, but their physiology is type 2 information.

Madness manipulation type 3 is an interesting topic as well, while I don't remember any instances of that in Inganock, having an absolutely impenetrable information body probably stops that.

But anyway, until the information stuff is clarified, not going to contest anything, at best I would only see an incon for Grimm, since he couldn't do anything due to Recollector's type 3 acausality.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Madness manipulation type 3 is an interesting topic as well, while I don't remember any instances of that in Inganock, having an absolutely impenetrable information body probably stops that.

Doesnt work like that as long as they have a mind. Madness manip type 3 isnt necessarily the user directly affecting the opponent but the opponent affecting themselves by comprehending certain information. This is why type 3 work against even 1-A beings.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Metaphysical hax such as plot manipulation and information type 2, are all treated as being equivalent so unless they can interact with all that, then they plot hax shouldn't do anything to Grimm. Though currently Grimm and Kikai information aspect isn't clarified, despite info type 2 being a thing on the Cracking page, and Grimm and co being made of Cracking, must have forgot it, they can attack information as in controlling the internet basically, but their physiology is type 2 information.

The plot aspect in the verse can interact with anything, including Info (Type 2), Concept (Type 1), and Law. So, there shouldn't be a problem of interaction here.

Also, what TeaParty said.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Doesnt work like that as long as they have a mind. Madness manip type 3 isnt necessarily the user directly affecting the opponent but the opponent affecting themselves by comprehending certain information. This is why type 3 work against even 1-A beings.

Re-looking at stuff, Critters break the minds of others/cause terror just by people looking at them, then on top of that they have the Critter Voice which stiffens the mind, so I do think Kikai and thus Grimm should resist this, too busy to care about fixing this right now though.

The plot aspect in the verse can interact with anything, including Info (Type 2), Concept (Type 1), and Law. So, there shouldn't be a problem of interaction here.

Also, what TeaParty said.

Grimm wouldn't have a win condition then, he can incapacitate the Recollector in front of him, but that does nothing about the others.

 

[BoastJr]

snip

btw

how do you feel about Isis and Vier being top 1 and top 2 in the High 3A tier and 7-B tier respectively

Snip

Although I guess Fate would qualify too

 

[Rikimarox2]

btw

how do you feel about Isis and Vier being top 1 and top 2 in the High 3A tier and 7-B tier respectively

Although I guess Fate would qualify too

I don't think I'm understanding this fully, are Isis and Vier characters from the same verse? So they'd be below Neo in 7-B?

 

[Berga14]

So... now that our TenSura big guy has aca 5 can he get first spot for 1C? Dunno much about the chinaman but i see a pp3 on his profile, so maybe a tie for first place?

 

[BoastJr]

I don't think I'm understanding this fully, are Isis and Vier characters from the same verse? So they'd be below Neo in 7-B?

I meant

Isis = H3A as Top 1 via EE stemming from Concept 1 / Info Type 2 / Law Manip Death Manip

Vier = 7B in Top 2 via Timestop / Spatial BFR

 

[Deonment]

Junko has no way of hurting any of them & is outhaxxed.

Outhaxed
Against the overseer key

Lol
What's stopping Junko from driving them into despair and making them kill herself with any of her varieties of bullshit

Han nor Eclipse can hurt them or get past barago's regen

Someone hasn't been on the site enough to see the horror
Han doesn't have his bullshit time accel or the ability to drop the void on them yet, so they stand a chance but he still should

the profile doesn't mention his NPI working on ghosts since the first key

Oh come on, that entire profile prolly needs a revamp anyways but fr
Anyways, they don't get through Sacred Eclipse's passive fate or mind hax (the latter is more potent than their resistance to my eyes)

Shana seemingly cant hurt them? I see no soul hax but looks like they can turn their NEP on and off? someone can explain their stuff more if they know

Doesn't matter when she pops an unresisted timestop and she interacts with their existence in-of-itself, so no real need to interact with the invul or incorp

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This is the non-smurf thread, why is Isis even being mentioned? She has Low 1-C smurf range.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Madness shenanigans (Which works on even Acausal beings)

Been saying I was gonna ask but what does Madness hax have to do with Acausality?

 

[Deonment]

Been saying I was gonna ask but what does Madness hax have to do with Acausality?

To be completely honest, the standards regarding what qualifies as madness 3 should be revised (or further clarified) because I know people will use this to wank, but essentially, infohazards and other media like it (think SI) don't care about tiering, abilities, or state of existence as long as one has a conscious mind with which to process and interpret said information, as any effect of such an ability is by nature the character reciving affecting themselves as a result of the information recived, the holder of the ability is doing nothing but providing said information, it's like being told, idfk, you have a new medical condition irl, the person telling you isn't actually doing anything but telling you said information, what happens to you in response is nothing but your own reaction to that information (you affecting yourself)

 

[Minaaaa]

Lol
What's stopping Junko from driving them into despair and making them kill herself with any of her varieties of bullshit

No soul hax to affect their mind + incorp and their other stuff

Someone hasn't been on the site enough to see the horror
Han doesn't have his bullshit time accel or the ability to drop the void on them yet, so they stand a chance but he still should

Oh come on, that entire profile prolly needs a revamp anyways but fr
Anyways, they don't get through Sacred Eclipse's passive fate or mind hax (the latter is more potent than their resistance to my eyes)

Same thing for Eclipse's mind hax as above & what does her fate manip do? does it prevent her for them killing her by thinking or gesturing

Doesn't matter when she pops an unresisted timestop and she interacts with their existence in-of-itself, so no real need to interact with the invul or incorp

I forgot that Barago resists timestop; Edit - I see its through something else, nvm