Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[AlexSamDen]

So... now that our TenSura big guy has aca 5 can he get first spot for 1C? Dunno much about the chinaman but i see a pp3 on his profile, so maybe a tie for first place?

A bit of a problem with Deadline. The only reason we're tied with them and not above is their 8D HDE, so no range to deal with them

That didn't change with Aca5

 

[Berga14]

tied

Still a tie for 1st place though

 

[Planck69]

Characters from God of War (Kratos and Deimos) for Low 7-B. Bare minimum they get past Black Fire via their speed, Soul Magic, Dory and Gifts of Olympus. Muzan and the Upper Ranks is more debatable but they have Speed-of-Light sunlight imbued projectiles that also carry Soul Magic abilities (Info 2/CM 1/mind/soul/memory/life/chaos) so they should take it there.

After that, the list is honestly weird. They blitz and hax at least a few people in the Top 10 but lose to Raiden decisively cause he can speed amp then cut them to pieces.

Edit: Wait, Kratos has passive Fate Manipulation, I forget lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How is Theodore still in Low 7-B lol.

This is probably the 3rd time I brought it up, but he is outdated, I haven't touched the profile in 6 years, not to mention it has a manga now where you could probably get visuals to calc stuff.

But yea he should be removed, I have no intention of updating the profile in the near future.

 

[DavidTPPM]

How is Theodore still in Low 7-B lol.

He's a strongass chipmunk

 

[Dragonite007]

How is Theodore still in Low 7-B lol.

This is probably the 3rd time I brought it up, but he is outdated, I haven't touched the profile in 6 years, not to mention it has a manga now where you could probably get visuals to calc stuff.

But yea he should be removed, I have no intention of updating the profile in the near future.

Removed

Characters from God of War (Kratos and Deimos) for Low 7-B. Bare minimum they get past Black Fire via their speed, Soul Magic, Dory and Gifts of Olympus. Muzan and the Upper Ranks is more debatable but they have Speed-of-Light sunlight imbued projectiles that also carry Soul Magic abilities (Info 2/CM 1/mind/soul/memory/life/chaos) so they should take it there.

After that, the list is honestly weird. They blitz and hax at least a few people in the Top 10 but lose to Raiden decisively cause he can speed amp then cut them to pieces.

Edit: Wait, Kratos has passive Fate Manipulation, I forget lol.

Kratos is a no, because fatehax from 1-C,

Can Deimos beat Cascão?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Removed

Kratos is a no, because fatehax from 1-C,

Can Deimos beat Cascão?

Recollector should also be at the first spot in High 6-C if you don't mind. It's been accepted like a few, 10-15 messages back?

The plot aspect in the verse can interact with anything, including Info (Type 2), Concept (Type 1), and Law. So, there shouldn't be a problem of interaction here.

Also, what TeaParty said.

^

 

[Planck69]

Removed

Kratos is a no, because fatehax from 1-C,

Can Deimos beat Cascão?

Speed unequal he beats them handily yeah. Speed equal he should also still win, given he has a projectile that Cascao has no means of dodging that would also oneshot him.

In fact, speed unequal he should even beat the No.4.

 

[Dragonite007]

Speed unequal he beats them handily yeah. Speed equal he should also still win, given he has a projectile that Cascao has no means of dodging that would also oneshot him.

In fact, speed unequal he should even beat the No.4.

But gets speed blitz by a phone
I Will chance later, now I am in the cellphone

 

[Planck69]

But gets speed blitz by a phone
I Will chance later, now I am in the cellphone

I can do it rn. I assume you're OK with him being No.4?

 

[Dragonite007]

I can do it rn. I assume you're OK with him being No.4?

I'm fine with him being above Cascão.

There's a Raiden in the middle of the road to 4th

 

[Planck69]

I'm fine with him being above Cascão.

There's a Raiden in the middle of the road to 4th

I mean, he should beat Enel as well cause the latter doesn't resist either his Soul Magic nor his time stop. In fact, speed unequal he beats everyone up to and including No.3 bar the Phone. So this just seems like an odd situation all around.

 

[Dragonite007]

I mean, he should beat Enel as well cause the latter doesn't resist either his Soul Magic nor his time stop. In fact, speed unequal he beats everyone up to and including No.3 bar the Phone. So this just seems like an odd situation all around.

This just become a Rock paper scissors (Enel > Raiden > Deimos > Enel....)

 

[McFriesGuy075]

This just become a Rock paper scissors (Enel > Raiden > Deimos > Enel....)

Raiden blitzes and gets to Enel before he can think even without Blade Mode through burst movement speed. Arguing against if Enel goes Logia would get awkward because stuff may or may not work on him, but he'd likely get outlasted.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Oh I forgot this thread existed.

Dante for 1st 7-B

 

[Rikimarox2]

Oh I forgot this thread existed.

Dante for 1st 7-B

Any reasoning? Neo in 7-B has High-Godly regen and a couple of layers on some stuff. Also no smurf hax whatsoever?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Any reasoning? Neo in 7-B has High-Godly regen and a couple of layers on some stuff. Also no smurf hax whatsoever?

His high godly ress only works 5 times per day so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

As for powers I'm pretty sure Dante resist most and depending on the layers he would have more? Dante in this key has like at the very least 10 layers I think? I need to find the blog and check how many are accepted for this key. Dunno how many Neo has.

Since smurf hax is now dead I'm thinking, trying to remember if Dante has anything that could be classified as smurfy but besides dimensional travel I don't think he has anything else?

nvm he has BFR that sends you to the demon world

what about Echidna, she has more or less the same layers as this Dante and her hax is passive so she will most likely just continuously nuke Neo

 

[Rikimarox2]

His high godly ress only works 5 times per day so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Kind of true but that phrasing is a bit weird. It's more like, he can resurrect up to 5 times, but he can keep being dead and generate more tries after like a few hours or so, so it's not necessarily limited (also he can kind of just go to another dimension if he wants (Underworld)).

Edit: I just realized his second key doesn't emphasize that fact, so uh... though even then, he wouldn't ever be dead for 24 hours straight, so even then it wouldn't be a perma death for Neo.

nvm he has BFR that sends you to the demon world

what about Echidna, she has more or less the same layers as this Dante and her hax is passive so she will most likely just continuously nuke Neo

Neo only has around 3 layers for this key, although he does continuously get stronger the more he fights/the longer the fight goes on (the key after the 7-B is, for example, I believe 9-10 layers, and can continuously get stronger). However, that's still a bit below 10 layers, but like, what are the passive stuff of Echidna? Because, besides the minor resistance to CM1, I really don't see any resistance to thought-based Existence Erasure, Concept-Based Sleep Manip, stopping time via absorbing time, etc...

Also! Neo himself has his Damage Reduction skill, which doesn't just work on physical attacks, but on practically anything. And this thing can reduce stuff even from Exalted Rank dudes (which are above 10 layers). The way it works is that it reduces every attack by 50%, and that applies to every instance. So, say hypothetically, an attack dealt 100 dmg (just an example), it'll be turned to 50. Then, it'll be turned to 25, then 12.5, etc... As such, actually nuking him entirely is pretty difficult. Oh yeah, he also has resistance negation, so there's that too (Not sure how it works against higher layers tho)

Also, I assume the 10 layers apply to every power they have?

That said, depending on how her powers work, she could possibly just insta-win. Although, anything Mind-related would likely just not work, even with layers, due to the fact that he has Infinite Potency in terms of Mind Resistance (Which includes other stuff like Empathic, Madness, Sleep, etc...)

Edit: Also her range is just... tens of meters? If that's truly the case, then I'm pretty sure Neo can just nuke from afar with his bajillion abilities, or just physical attacks, even.

 

[Dragonite007]

Raiden blitzes and gets to Enel before he can think even without Blade Mode through burst movement speed. Arguing against if Enel goes Logia would get awkward because stuff may or may not work on him, but he'd likely get outlasted.

The person who submit Raiden to the list (@Chariot190) said that Raiden cannot affect Enel.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

The person who submit Raiden to the list (@Chariot190) said that Raiden cannot affect Enel.

Raiden wouldn't be able to affect Enel IF he became a Logia, which Raiden has the speed to prevent him from doing so. And even if he did, Raiden still massively outlasts Enel since no attack from the latter would be fast enough to hit and has vastly superior stamina.

 

[Dragonite007]

Raiden wouldn't be able to affect Enel IF he became a Logia, which Raiden has the speed to prevent him from doing so. And even if he did, Raiden still massively outlasts Enel since no attack from the latter would be fast enough to hit and has vastly superior stamina.

I am not gonna drag this again, do a rematch If want, since both sides were arguing something different (And I'm not a supporter of any of this verses)

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I am not gonna drag this again, do a rematch If want, since both sides were arguing something different

there was no match to begin with also I don't think anyone was arguing for Enel. If I gotta do a thread now then I guess I will.

 

[Dragonite007]

there was no match to begin with

I know

There a reason of why I don't want to be in the same thread that @Chariot190 and One Piece supporters are

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Kind of true but that phrasing is a bit weird. It's more like, he can resurrect up to 5 times, but he can keep being dead and generate more tries after like a few hours or so, so it's not necessarily limited (also he can kind of just go to another dimension if he wants (Underworld)).

The thing is that the second he gets within her presence he will get hit by all the passives.

Madness, fear, soul, concept 1, info 2, mind hax. All of those are passive.

Edit: I just realized his second key doesn't emphasize that fact, so uh... though even then, he wouldn't ever be dead for 24 hours straight, so even then it wouldn't be a perma death for Neo.

Even if it wasn't a perma death (and because Echidna can't negg High Godly) it would still count as incap and would still be passively incapacitating him every time he looks at Echidna too (cognitive based stuff and all that)

Neo only has around 3 layers for this key, although he does continuously get stronger the more he fights/the longer the fight goes on (the key after the 7-B is, for example, I believe 9-10 layers, and can continuously get stronger). However, that's still a bit below 10 layers, but like, what are the passive stuff of Echidna? Because, besides the minor resistance to CM1, I really don't see any resistance to thought-based Existence Erasure, Concept-Based Sleep Manip, stopping time via absorbing time, etc...

Also! Neo himself has his Damage Reduction skill, which doesn't just work on physical attacks, but on practically anything. And this thing can reduce stuff even from Exalted Rank dudes (which are above 10 layers). The way it works is that it reduces every attack by 50%, and that applies to every instance. So, say hypothetically, an attack dealt 100 dmg (just an example), it'll be turned to 50. Then, it'll be turned to 25, then 12.5, etc... As such, actually nuking him entirely is pretty difficult. Oh yeah, he also has resistance negation, so there's that too (Not sure how it works against higher layers tho)

when I say nuking him I mean in a hax way not a physical one lol

Also, I assume the 10 layers apply to every power they have?

pretty much, also its 16 layers

That said, depending on how her powers work, she could possibly just insta-win. Although, anything Mind-related would likely just not work, even with layers, due to the fact that he has Infinite Potency in terms of Mind Resistance (Which includes other stuff like Empathic, Madness, Sleep, etc...)

I mean if we go by potency alone the first layer already has infinite numbers/potency since it comes from the whole demon world and all that

Edit: Also her range is just... tens of meters? If that's truly the case, then I'm pretty sure Neo can just nuke from afar with his bajillion abilities, or just physical attacks, even.

tbf his profile doesn't really imply it is for all his powers, just his darkness and other specific stuff

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I mean if we go by potency alone the first layer already has infinite numbers/potency since it comes from the whole demon world and all that

Whats the logic for that btw? If its just like affecting infinite minds then it isnt a potency thing (but instead range) unless they can explicitly concentrate it and that number of minds correlate to potency when doing so. Neos is based on a verse mechanic where the longer amount of time you experience, the stronger your resistance to mind hax is, while he very explicitly experienced a literal infinity of time.

 

[BoastJr]

Anyways Vier should take 2nd spot in 7-B and replace Kakine or at the least share a spot as she can just blitz him easily

 

[Rikimarox2]

The thing is that the second he gets within her presence he will get hit by all the passives.

Madness, fear, soul, concept 1, info 2, mind hax. All of those are passive.

Ngl, I'm not seeing any of that in her profile nor the High-Demon stuff. Can you tell me how it works? If it's somehow passive Concept Type 1 destruction (Which I find very weird ngl cuz imagine just a random enemy erasing the Type 1 Concepts of reality passively), then yeah, I suppose it'll destroy Neo. Though if it depends on range, Neo can still nuke.

Even if it wasn't a perma death (and because Echidna can't negg High Godly) it would still count as incap and would still be passively incapacitating him every time he looks at Echidna too (cognitive based stuff and all that)

IIRC, Neo is blind in this key. Though again, his potency is infinite (kind of actual above but eh), and don't forget the range stuff.

Also, if he was killed a few times, there's a possibility he'll just grow resistance, or a new ability to counteract her stuff (An example is when he was getting destroyed by Time itself and getting erased from reality, and he just leveled up and got a skill specifically to counter act it, ie becoming true immortal). He gets skills depending on what is going on. Though I don't think any of that is needed ngl.

when I say nuking him I mean in a hax way not a physical one lol

I know. And Eternal works on Hax way, too. Hell, it was used when someone was destroying his Seed of Existence (Info, Concept, Law, etc...) and was never able to fully destroy it.

pretty much, also its 16 layers

I mean if we go by potency alone the first layer already has infinite numbers/potency since it comes from the whole demon world and all that

As TeaParty said, what is the mechanism here? Just numbers alone does not really matter, nor does range, unless the verse explictly states it. Neo, on the other hand, got Infinite Potency because in the verse, the longer one lives, the more resistant they are, and Neo lived for an infinite amount of time mentally (hence why no one was able to affect his mind until way later on).

tbf his profile doesn't really imply it is for all his powers, just his darkness and other specific stuff

Eh, majority of his powers. Hell, his EE alone covers Stellar range, and many of his attacks (be it darkness, death, physical attacks even, etc...) reach way above hundreds of meters. Hell, his very, very casual attack (the 7-C feat), which he used with no amp whatsoever and just attacked randomly, reached beyond 100 meter.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Whats the logic for that btw? If its just like affecting infinite minds then it isnt a potency thing (but instead range) unless they can explicitly concentrate it and that number of minds correlate to potency when doing so.

So basically a realm that could potentially affect infinite minds (if infinite minds where to be dumped there) and the closer you get to the Heart/Nexus the stronger the effects to the point not even demons can withstand it (granted it was like at the very center but still)

With demons being able to overpower said resistance one over another over and over.

Neos is based on a verse mechanic where the longer amount of time you experience, the stronger your resistance to mind hax is, while he very explicitly experienced a literal infinity of time.

So how does that compare to layers and all that? since layers are by default an exceptional showcase of potency

Ngl, I'm not seeing any of that in her profile nor the High-Demon stuff. Can you tell me how it works? If it's somehow passive Concept Type 1 destruction (Which I find very weird ngl cuz imagine just a random enemy erasing the Type 1 Concepts of reality passively), then yeah, I suppose it'll destroy Neo. Though if it depends on range, Neo can still nuke.

So here, here and here. Basically their mere presence crushes your soul, psyche, destroys your mind and makes them stronger.

The soul is superior to a concept 1 and info 2 since it apparently houses the Names which are concept/info stuff.

IIRC, Neo is blind in this key. Though again, his potency is infinite (kind of actual above but eh), and don't forget the range stuff.

just being in their prescence is enough Tony Redgrave got haxed despite not knowing where they were


I made my point above

Also, if he was killed a few times, there's a possibility he'll just grow resistance, or a new ability to counteract her stuff (An example is when he was getting destroyed by Time itself and getting erased from reality, and he just leveled up and got a skill specifically to counter act it, ie becoming true immortal). He gets skills depending on what is going on. Though I don't think any of that is needed ngl.

Can he do any of that to 16 layers of that juicy stuff? Because just being near Echidna will trigger all that stuff non stop.

I know. And Eternal works on Hax way, too. Hell, it was used when someone was destroying his Seed of Existence (Info, Concept, Law, etc...) and was never able to fully destroy it.

Same thing as above, can it stop something so much more powerful than everything else he ever faced to this point? If not then its moot.

Eh, majority of his powers. Hell, his EE alone covers Stellar range, and many of his attacks (be it darkness, death, physical attacks even, etc...) reach way above hundreds of meters. Hell, his very, very casual attack (the 7-C feat), which he used with no amp whatsoever and just attacked randomly, reached beyond 100 meter.

Yeah the profile doesn't cover that, its just hundreds of meters (darkness could cover a castle), Kilometers (could gather clouds), stellar (erased a sun)

I see the ee and darkness but thats it, the profile doesn't explain that so I'll just go with the basic assumption that his other stuff needs basic melee range

It's like me saying "her powers cover the whole ass Fortuna Island" and her profile completely missing that which it actually does lmao



Also like what is his win condition? Most of his powers are useless and those that work like EE won't kill her. Her regen is listed as low godly but its technically a super version of Low Godly that directly relies on her soul which is superior to concepts/info and works more like Mid Godly on steroids (I couldn't get mid godly because of a technicism) and like many other demons she should be able to act like a disembodied soul and just kill him.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So basically a realm that could potentially affect infinite minds (if infinite minds where to be dumped there) and the closer you get to the Heart/Nexus the stronger the effects to the point not even demons can withstand it (granted it was like at the very center but still)

With demons being able to overpower said resistance one over another over and over.

That doesnt seem sufficient as proof for infinite potency ngl

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Same thing as above, can it stop something so much more powerful than everything else he ever faced to this point? If not then its moot.

Actually yea. That was the whole point of the scene where it was first displayed if I remember correctly. He was completely overpowered by corruption and could do absolutely nothing against it until he did his bullshit.