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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Apollonir.Scale said:
I'm not saying "Yhwach wasn't in combat, so Chojuro wouldn't scale him." I'm saying it's either a drop in Yhwach's level because Chojuro stopped training, or he's an outlier. Still, that doesn't refute Grimmjow being able to hit Askin.

Dealing damage to Yhwach doesn't level him up anyway. He might still be much weaker in terms of speed. He might only scale him in terms of AP and LS.
Click to expand...
“Outlier” is a cop-out argument with no foundation, and you only selectively apply it to scenes you don’t like. And yeah, he doesn’t scale remotely either in AP or LS, given that you couldn’t refute my point or provide any argument for why he would have randomly become massively weaker, especially when Shinigami simply don’t weaken like that without an actual reason.

I see no difference between Chojuro’s backstab and Grimmjow’s one.

Both Askin and Yhwach were in combat, both were caught by surprise, and both got backstabbed. They were simply both surprise attacks.
 
Trihexa102 said:
literally showed the raws it' says infinitely expanding.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. You are making up stuff. There is no "extending" what it say specifically is (無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け) -> "the black cavity that extends infinitely" 広がる means "extends", official translation support this by calling it an infinite expanse, for "extending" or an action that is extending currently it would be:
広がっている or 広がり続ける, which is not present on the text.
 
Infinite9Luck said:
No it doesn't. You are making up stuff. There is no "extending" what it say specifically is (無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け) -> "the black cavity that extends infinitely" 広がる means "extends", official translation support this by calling it an infinite expanse, for "extending" or an action that is extending currently it would be:
広がっている or 広がり続ける, which is not present on the text.
Click to expand...
official translation > someone's selective opinion
 
Last edited:
Infinite9Luck said:
“Outlier” is a cop-out argument with no foundation, and you only selectively apply it to scenes you don’t like. And yeah, he doesn’t scale remotely either in AP or LS, given that you couldn’t refute my point or provide any argument for why he would have randomly become massively weaker, especially when Shinigami simply don’t weaken like that without an actual reason.
Click to expand...
No, calling it an outlier isn't a tactic. I assumed you knew the explanation. Grimmjow doesn't have an anti-feat that shows he's NOT strong enough to hit Askin. Chojuro, however, does. SS Arc Shikai Ichigo defeating him would be an anti-feat in that case. Unless, of course, you're saying Chojuro weakened.

Why would Chojuro's weakening be minimal? Is there direct evidence that stopping fighting causes a small power drop? Just like with Yamamoto, there's no evidence that he trains every day. We say Yamamoto didn't weaken because of the statement that he trains every day. But this wasn't stated for Chojuro. Byakuya stated that Chojuro compensates for Yamamoto's weaknesses. Yamamoto isn't lacking in strength. Therefore, Chojuro doesn't need to improve his strength.

Note: It might have been someone else who said this, I don't remember exactly.

Also, since there's no information on this wiki about Baraggan training, Young Baraggan was accepted as > Old & Espada Baraggan. Espada Baraggan wasn't upscaled because of Young Baraggan's fight with Ikomikidomoe. So yes, stopping training can cause more nerfs.

Infinite9Luck said:
I see no difference between Chojuro’s backstab and Grimmjow’s one.
Click to expand...
Yes, there's no difference; both are off-guard type combat attacks. However, as I explained above, while Chojuro has an anti-feat, Grimmjow doesn't have an anti-feat that shows his TYBW and CFYOW forms are far below Askin level. For example, you'd be right if there was proof that Ginjo and Sealed Ikomikidomoe were too weak to hit Askin.
 
Trihexa102 said:
literally showed the raws it' says infinitely expanding.
Click to expand...

It's says infinitely expanding means infinite

Chat GBT

無限に広がる黒腔の literally means:

"the Garganta that stretches out infinitely"
or
"the infinitely expanding Garganta."
Click to expand...

Breaking it down:

  • 無限に (mugen ni) — infinitely, without limit
  • 広がる (hirogaru) — to spread, to extend, to stretch out
  • 黒腔 (こっこう, Kokkō) — Garganta, the dimensional void/passage in Bleach

A natural translation in context would be:

  • "the infinitely vast Garganta"
  • "the Garganta that extends infinitely"
  • "the endless expanse of the Garganta"

The phrase 無限に広がる describes something that extends without end, so it conveys that the Garganta is portrayed as having an endless or infinite expanse.
 
ichimojii said:
It's says infinitely expanding means infinite

Chat GBT

無限に広がる黒腔の literally means:



Breaking it down:

  • 無限に (mugen ni) — infinitely, without limit
  • 広がる (hirogaru) — to spread, to extend, to stretch out
  • 黒腔 (こっこう, Kokkō) — Garganta, the dimensional void/passage in Bleach

A natural translation in context would be:

  • "the infinitely vast Garganta"
  • "the Garganta that extends infinitely"
  • "the endless expanse of the Garganta"

The phrase 無限に広がる describes something that extends without end, so it conveys that the Garganta is portrayed as having an endless or infinite expanse.
Click to expand...
They aren't the same thing, you need to do more research than that.
 
Infinite9Luck said:
No it doesn't. You are making up stuff. There is no "extending" what it say specifically is (無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け) -> "the black cavity that extends infinitely" 広がる means "extends", official translation support this by calling it an infinite expanse, for "extending" or an action that is extending currently it would be:
広がっている or 広がり続ける, which is not present on the text.
Click to expand...
you just making things up and being semantic. What i said and what you said are no different
Extend infinitely is not Infinite.
 
Trihexa102 said:
you just making things up and being semantic. What i said and what you said are no different
Extend infinitely is not Infinite.
Click to expand...
Lol.
My guy doesn't even understand the line of argumentation presented, and the difference between the two.

Either way, infinite luck is correct in his assessment and translation.
It's described as a black cavity that extends infinitely, which is not equal to something that is continuously expanding infinitely.
One is already infinite, the other is not, but simply extends for an infinite amount of time and is thus as of now "finite", yet increasing in size at every moment infinitely.
although something that is infinite, can in actuality still be expansive as well.
 
Hellscream said:
?...
"Observable universe"..
Did you read your own sentence before posting?
Click to expand...
not rlly its 3am rn
as far as I'm aware If the observable universe is finite but unbounded (like the 3D analogue of the surface of a sphere), then its size would keep increasing without bound and could become arbitrarily large over infinite time, which logically translates to "infinitely expanding" as its a behavior that happens overtime.
I might be wrong so dont get worked up, just trying to make an analogy
 
Hellscream said:
Lol.
My guy doesn't even understand the line of argumentation presented, and the difference between the two.

Either way, infinite luck is correct in his assessment and translation.
It's described as a black cavity that extends infinitely, which is not equal to something that is continuously expanding infinitely.
One is already infinite, the other is not, but simply extends for an infinite amount of time and is thus as of now "finite", yet increasing in size at every moment infinitely.
although something that is infinite, can in actuality still be expansive as well.
Click to expand...
you don't even know what the point of his argumentation is about, the fact it's extending infinitely alone should tell you it's not infinite no matter how you put it like you explained.
 
Uhhh... Yeah no. Wiki tends to pick up on these small details regardless what the context is. You need to be very specific if the structure is infinite in its entirety or not.
 
Trihexa102 said:
you don't even know what the point of his argumentation is about, the fact it's extending infinitely alone should tell you it's not infinite no matter how you put it like you explained.
Click to expand...
?...
It literally states that it's not something that is actively extending, but is rather something that already extends infinitely, meaning it is infinite.
it extends over an infinite volume, is what it means.
There is a huge difference between the two, and i explainedd the differentiation, one is already something that extends infinitely, and is thus infinite, and the other is actively extending (becoming larger) infinitely.
 
Hellscream said:
?...
It literally states that it's not something that is actively extending, but is rather something that already extends infinitely, meaning it is infinite.
it extends over an infinite volume, is what it means.
There is a huge difference between the two, and i explainedd the differentiation, one is already something that extends infinitely, and is thus infinite, and the other is actively extending (becoming larger) infinitely.
Click to expand...
No that isn't what it means? it means it still finite and potentially(infinite) after an undeterrminable point.
While something infinite has no borders and is basically entirely infinite.
 
Hellscream said:
Okay, you do not know what you're talking about.
Pointless to continue talking to you.
Click to expand...
you do not what you are talking about, Infinite is not infinitely expansive no matter what semantics or worldplay.
we cannot change each others stances so agree to disagree.
 
Hellscream said:
Okay, you do not know what you're talking about.
Pointless to continue talking to you.
Click to expand...
I feel like keeping hostility to a minimum would be nice, after all the whole point of these forums are interpreting given source materials for a power-level, if we cant get the verse to 5D from what we have there's no need to maul eachother over it. Also we might need a practical translation as the wiki suggests not using MTN methods
 
Let‘s ignore 5D garganta for a moment. How about we get The Almighty to 5D 😭. That would make me more happy than 5D Garganta.
 
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