Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Dude I can't fucking take it anymore genuinely how much longer do I have to wait
anyways
Renmerry car
anyways
Renmerry car
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I'm waiting for the Chinese wiki to upload the final part before I give any thoughts on it.Hey fuji, what about the story?
Now that I've had a little more time to let things sink in...I'm waiting for the Chinese wiki to upload the final part before I give any thoughts on it.
Not really? I believe it moreso has to do with the subjective nature of reality and how nothing truly "exists" unless it is being actively perceived, much like Schrodinger's Cat. This same principle is seen in Dr. Latency's Freak Report, where youkai are simultaneously alive and dead until Maribel observes one directly.Speaking of the story, I have an unresolved doubt, Renko says that in Gensokyo there is no matter as such, turning its inhabitants into ghosts.... Does that mean that no one in Gensokyo is real or something like that ?
Sure, what did you want to ask?I was reading silent sinner in blue, and have questions towards when I read how Yorihime's fight went, could anyone possibly answer them?
Please and thank you.
From how it looked, I have about 2 right now, though could probably be more if I do a reread (which may be likely soon) or as I'm typing this.Sure, what did you want to ask?
The atmosphere didn't affect her power. It just made it so the stars didn't twinkle. Considering an ordinary moon rabbit gets bonked on the head by one of the stars and is fine (and a couple of fairies block them without issue), I think it's safer to say that Marisa was just holding back rather than the stars being weakened by some outside force. That would also line up with Marisa being the one to suggest a spell card duel in the first place, and explain that they de-emphasize raw power in favor of style.From how it looked, I have about 2 right now, though could probably be more if I do a reread (which may be likely soon) or as I'm typing this.
Though could probably chalk it up to the style of the manga, it looked like at points that Yorihime was tanking the stars from Marisa's danmaku, was that due to the atmosphere having an effect on her power aside from the shining or was that something different like her just dodging?
Reimu and Yorihime never fought directly, their fight was almost entirely a measure of their summoning prowess. Remilia only did the best because she was the only one to lead with raw, unrestrained power; Yorihime's strength lies in having 40 million techniques, which gives her a hard counter to any esoteric abilities one might possess. She does not, however, have a counter to throwing hands with someone physically stronger than her. Yorihime only wins by playing into Remilia's narcissism and convincing her to hold back by using a spell card, which gives Yori the opportunity to summon Amaterasu and blast her with the power of the sun (which is obviously a good win condition against a vampire). Notably, Sakuya is also shown to be physically stronger than Yorihime as well, but she doesn't fall back on CQC like Remi does. Reimu even goes so far as to note that Yorihime's victory has nothing to do with power.Second question, minus Reimu (even if she did sort of do a handicap summoning a god and plaguing Yorihime's sword with death essence), Remilia looks like she did the best— at least I think so when I saw what looked like Yorihime taking actual damage against her. Shouldn't that be noted somewhere in Remilia's profile?
They aren't. Eirin is pretty much the only character who's worthy of that much hype, because it's made very clear that she is comically superior to everyone around her. I've shown this above, but Remilia and Sakuya should upscale from Yorihime in AP. Jidiao like Yachie are equal to dragons, which would in turn scale to the other Animal Realm leaders (and Flandre via her fight with Yuuma, and like... 99% of the high tiers by extension because CDS' scaling is a clusterfuck). Okuu is empowered by and can summon Yatagarasu, but she's still in awe of Marisa's power to the point of becoming submissive towards her. Sakuyahime considers the power of the Hourai Elixir (which is Kaguya's own power) far superior to her own, and I shouldn't have to explain that Mokou (+ literally the entire playable cast of Imperishable Night) scales by extension. Kaguya also directly compares Marisa and Alice to the denizens of the Lunar Capital. Native gods like Suwako can surpass the highest of gods, which would include those living in the capital. I might be forgetting a few things, but it's pretty clear that there's good reason to scale Gensokyo denizens to Lunar Capital denizens.Third, people in the lunar capital are that much more nuts than people on Gensokyo, yes? If the bit for Remilia giving Yorihime damage is true, it would be telling for her, yeah?
Thank you very much for answering! This is the level of knowledgeable on Touhou I hope to be at someday, caught my eyes for a long time. Love it and the passion that surrounds it a lot.Uh, if you couldn't tell, I'm slightly passionate about this topic (<-- Bougetsushou's strongest solider)
This is also pretty interesting, I was caught up in the whole Yorihime hype loop myself for a GOOD while so this definitely helps.On a funnier note, Yorihime has no high tier scaling aside from the WoG statements that are directly contradicted by main canon. So there's a good chance she'll end up at "5-B, up to 2-C with Summoning" lmao (although her cutting Marisa's Master Spark could be her one saving grace)
You're welcome. Feel free to ask me anything else, I've got quite a lot of knowledge on this series saved up.Thank you very much for answering! This is the level of knowledgeable on Touhou I hope to be at someday, caught my eyes for a long time. Love it and the passion that surrounds it a lot.
It's one of those things that became so prevalent that nobody ever bothered to fact check it because like... why wouldn't it be right?This is also pretty interesting, I was caught up in the whole Yorihime hype loop myself for a GOOD while so this definitely helps.
I'll make sure to remember that, thanks again.You're welcome. Feel free to ask me anything else, I've got quite a lot of knowledge on this series saved up.
It was very common to hear from others I've talked to, so feels good to get that off from my mind.It's one of those things that became so prevalent that nobody ever bothered to fact check it because like... why wouldn't it be right?
I just remembered @Kirbonic_Pikmin made this lmao
Speaking of Reimu and Yorihime uhh... Yorihime is a shrine maiden lol? I am not sure if she could have the few haxes that the shrine maidens would have, or realistically she is not as such, how the heck can she summon gods or something like that, I am left with the doubt.Reimu and Yorihime never fought directly, their fight was almost entirely a measure of their summoning prowess.
Wait like what AFiEU????? Can you explain more in detail? or provide scans? I'm really curious to know what you're talking about... rnI think whoever made the old scaling chain just straight up did not read SSiB, only saw ZUN's comment about Yorihime being super strong, and called it a day. Hell, if you wanna get really deep into this rabbit hole, AFiEU even implies that the capital's "superiority" is a farce and they've entered an era of stagnation and gradual decline while Gensokyo is thriving. It is literally written into the narrative that the Lunar Capital isn't as strong as people think they are! So much of this is easily disproven with even the tiniest bit of context media literacy that it genuinely pisses me off.
Why "5-B" ?On a funnier note, Yorihime has no high tier scaling aside from the WoG statements that are directly contradicted by main canon. So there's a good chance she'll end up at "5-B, up to 2-C with Summoning" lmao (although her cutting Marisa's Master Spark could be her one saving grace)
She's not. She can just summon gods.Speaking of Reimu and Yorihime uhh... Yorihime is a shrine maiden lol? I am not sure if she could have the few haxes that the shrine maidens would have, or realistically she is not as such, how the heck can she summon gods or something like that, I am left with the doubt.
That's the baseline for mid-tier scaling, based on this calc.Why "5-B" ?
The entire article is here, but the basic idea is that Gensokyo maintains its stability due to being open to new ideas and people from all walks of life (this is corroborated by ZUN talking about the nature of Gensokyo in an interview regarding HSiFS). Locations like the Lunar Capital, being insular and uncooperative by nature, are setting up their own downfall, and the walls they build are destined to fall one day.Wait like what AFiEU????? Can you explain more in detail? or provide scans? I'm really curious to know what you're talking about... rn
Yorihime claims that with her ability, she could win against the SSiB protags 40 million times in a row, so I just use that as the value for how many different gods she can potentially summon. That said, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that she could call upon any of them if she really wanted to.Yorihime isn't a shrine maiden, she's simply a Lunarian princess and a swordsman who can summon gods. In terms of "Hax", unfortunately we don't have much to index beyond what gods she has summoned in SSiB (correct me if im wrong here), but she can possibly summon others with just as much effort-- it's one of her flagship abilities after all. At this point she's one of those characters that doesn't get much time on screen/panel, at least in recent memory. We had a good opportunity to have her as a character in LoLK, but ZUN explicitly wanted to not include the Hime sisters in the game (missed oppourtunity for one character to have the Imperishable Night swap mechanic UGHH)
The calc is already measuring the depth by assuming that the Blood Pools are the deepest part of Former Hell and that Gensokyo and Former Hell are physically contiguous, so nothing would change.Also I wanna point out, if Gensokyo is at least 280000 kilometers deep, then that's roughly 43 times the depth of the earth-- which subsequently suggests that Gensokyo posesses a much larger circumfrence than that of the Earth-- so the 5-B rating is reasonable at least. Anyways, I wanna ask, how would Sunken Fossil World fit into the equation? (i.e, Yuuma's Blood Pools). I haven't exactly played the title yet, but I'm curious if it's explicitly a deeper part of Old Hell-- and if that would suggest an "at least" rating to the calc?
Marisa uses the spell card rules because Yorihime has her at gunpoint. That's not a matter of AP scaling, she literally would not be able to engage in a serious fight at that point without getting cut to pieces. That aside... everyone in Gensokyo fights using the SCR anyways, so it's literally just Marisa saying "this is how we fight back where I'm from". The fact that she also teaches the SCR to a number of moon rabbits as well shows that it definitely isn't a matter of AP scaling, unless we really wanna scale every moon rabbit to 2-C. Of course, you could also just look at Reimu's statement that Yorihime's victory has nothing to do with strength.also, there's something that intrigues me about SSiB, why the hell is Marisa trying to convince Yorihime to fight under the spell card system? did she convince Yorihime to fight under that system because she considered her an absurdly strong enemy? besides, it doesn't help much that Marisa thinks to herself that Yorihime has no openings, the difference between her power and Reimu's is day and night, and if the lunar invaders had to fight her for real there's no way they could win. .. and speaking of Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom why the hell Sagume when she is defeated is not shown with torn clothes or wounds? is this because the Lunarians are uhh... superior or something? i know it sounds stupid after Fuji has refuted all this but i would like to know.
Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon?Marisa uses the spell card rules because Yorihime has her at gunpoint. That's not a matter of AP scaling, she literally would not be able to engage in a serious fight at that point without getting cut to pieces. That aside... everyone in Gensokyo fights using the SCR anyways, so it's literally just Marisa saying "this is how we fight back where I'm from". The fact that she also teaches the SCR to a number of moon rabbits as well shows that it definitely isn't a matter of AP scaling, unless we really wanna scale every moon rabbit to 2-C. Of course, you could also just look at Reimu's statement that Yorihime's victory has nothing to do with strength.
Sagume not being visibly wounded was literally just because ZUN didn't want to have her in the defeated pose for a long time. Again, nothing to do with powerscaling.
Okay well that one's just stupid because Yukari implicitly says that Eirin is the reason she can't travel to the moon directly. And even then, she can do it so long as she opens a gap in its reflection, so it's not even a hard limit on her abilities.Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon?(I swear I've heard shit like this and it genuinely pisses me off.)
I mean, it's true that Marisa couldn't do anything against Yorihime. It's also pretty evident that no one in the party could beat her either in subsequent SCR duels-- so the need for SCR were pretty crucial else they would probably be executed.Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon?(I swear I've heard shit like this and it genuinely pisses me off.)
What ? What are you talking about?Also It's not healthy to throw these kinds of smug, accusatory remarks at people. You're not going to get anything productive out of saying stuff like this in a discussion setting.
Also, there are some fascinating theories regarding the possession aspect of the story and how Okina ties into things, though it may take a bit for me to develop my own take. Renko somehow just... knowing where to find a door to an Otherworld is one of the big pieces of evidence to suggest she was not acting of her own free will at that point. Hopefully ZUN follows the trend of the previous 4 CDs and makes a followup later this year.