Touhou Discussion Thread 3 ⌈Eternal Fantasy Edition⌋

[SomeJJJJ]

Marisa uses the spell card rules because Yorihime has her at gunpoint. That's not a matter of AP scaling, she literally would not be able to engage in a serious fight at that point without getting cut to pieces. That aside... everyone in Gensokyo fights using the SCR anyways, so it's literally just Marisa saying "this is how we fight back where I'm from". The fact that she also teaches the SCR to a number of moon rabbits as well shows that it definitely isn't a matter of AP scaling, unless we really wanna scale every moon rabbit to 2-C. Of course, you could also just look at Reimu's statement that Yorihime's victory has nothing to do with strength.

Sagume not being visibly wounded was literally just because ZUN didn't want to have her in the defeated pose for a long time. Again, nothing to do with powerscaling.

Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon? (I swear I've heard shit like this and it genuinely pisses me off.)

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon? (I swear I've heard shit like this and it genuinely pisses me off.)

Okay well that one's just stupid because Yukari implicitly says that Eirin is the reason she can't travel to the moon directly. And even then, she can do it so long as she opens a gap in its reflection, so it's not even a hard limit on her abilities.

 

[Quibster]

Of course you did it! Again! What's next? Refuting that Toyohime doesn't have the same ability as Yukari and that she shouldn't be superior to Yukari just because Yukari couldn't open a gap on the moon? (I swear I've heard shit like this and it genuinely pisses me off.)

I mean, it's true that Marisa couldn't do anything against Yorihime. It's also pretty evident that no one in the party could beat her either in subsequent SCR duels-- so the need for SCR were pretty crucial else they would probably be executed.

Also It's not healthy to throw these kinds of smug, accusatory remarks at people. You're not going to get anything productive out of saying stuff like this in a discussion setting.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

Also It's not healthy to throw these kinds of smug, accusatory remarks at people. You're not going to get anything productive out of saying stuff like this in a discussion setting.

What ? What are you talking about?

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Also, there are some fascinating theories regarding the possession aspect of the story and how Okina ties into things, though it may take a bit for me to develop my own take. Renko somehow just... knowing where to find a door to an Otherworld is one of the big pieces of evidence to suggest she was not acting of her own free will at that point. Hopefully ZUN follows the trend of the previous 4 CDs and makes a followup later this year.

Tfw all quantum references goes to trash /hj

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Still chipping away at the new ability justifications. Most of these ought to be finished (except Okina's section, there's one more thing I need to add that's gonna be a massive pain in the ass), and I should be able to get a couple more done by the time I go to bed.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Progress is good

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So uh, I think I might need to reread Fragment of Phantasy, because I just looked over something seemingly innocuous (literally would've just given darkness manipulation/weapon mastery to one character if my assumption was correct [it wasn't]) and ended up finding what may end up being one of the most explicit pieces of evidence for tier 0 I could've possibly hoped for. I'm not gonna pretend it's something that might happen anymore, it's 100% gonna happen at this point.

 

[Quibster]

touhou becoming ungovernable tee hee

 

[ÆONS]

touhou becoming ungovernable tee hee

Indeed...

 

[SomeJJJJ]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara So, i have a question about the infinite speed (kaguya corridor) , and if they really didn't cross the infinite corridor as such? Reisen says that she forgot to seal one of the doors of the corridor and the protagonists went through that door, Eirin also says that it was not an infinite corridor but an illusion????

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara So, i have a question about the infinite speed (kaguya corridor) , and if they really didn't cross the infinite corridor as such? Reisen says that she forgot to seal one of the doors of the corridor and the protagonists went through that door, Eirin also says that it was not an infinite corridor but an illusion????

The corridor is not an illusion. We are explicitly told how it is created not once, but twice.

It being an illusion is tenuous anyways, as the inciting incident of the game (as well as a central gameplay mechanic) is one-half of each team being able to see through illusions. If the corridor was illusory, nobody would've been tricked into going down it, because Yukari/Alice/Remilia/Yuyuko would just be able to go "wait a second, that corridor's not real" and choose the correct one. But that obviously didn't happen, because the entire plot of the game would fall apart if it did (never mind the fact that we are explicitly told that Kaguya's space-time manipulation was the means through which the corridor was made).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

【第六章　怨恨のサブタレイニアン　第五話】東方智霊奇伝　反則探偵さとり｜カドコミ (コミックウォーカー)

東方智霊奇伝　反則探偵さとり読むならカドコミ

comic-walker.com

I sure am glad I managed to find a way to reconcile the Myouren Temple fight with the scaling chain, now I just need to hope nothing really stupid happens, like a stage 1 boss making Reimu bleed- OH GOD DAMN IT

(no comment on the rest of the chapter until translations are out)

 

[Angelzewolf]

You know. I knew Touhou fans on Reddit downplayed the cast a lot. But "All the governments in the world beats them." Is a new level I wasn't ready for.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

At least we got some Reimu Combat Prowess/NPI and more Scans for Yin-Yang Orb being a communicator , We're so back man.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

At least we got some Reimu Combat Prowess/NPI and more Scans for Yin-Yang Orb being a communicator , We're so back man.

no npi is fake because saikou said so. this just means vengeful spirits aren't incorporeal.

You know. I knew Touhou fans on Reddit downplayed the cast a lot. But "All the governments in the world beats them." Is a new level I wasn't ready for.

I'm curious how they can justify that when humanity caps at nuke level and Reimu has already dealt with a living nuclear bomb.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Nuclear Hell Raven goes brrrrr.

 

[Angelzewolf]

no npi is fake because saikou said so. this just means vengeful spirits aren't incorporeal.

Call me a *********, but I miss those days. It was pretty fun.

I'm curious how they can justify that when humanity caps at nuke level and Reimu has already dealt with a living nuclear bomb.

There was a bit, but the gist is.

• Nonhumans need the Hakurei Barrier to survive, and the destruction of specific locations or large casualties can disrupt it, so a nuke can wipe out all but a handful of the characters, and in that case, they wouldn't have the mental layer to buff them. The Youkai Expansion Project was created to give them a chance against humans because they needed a buff. GHB was created after, and 90% of them die instantly if it's gone.
• Some abilities aren't as broken as people claim. The examples given were Yuyuko and Remilia. Remilia has never shown to manipulate fate, and Flan commented she probably couldn't. Yuyuko can't kill Hourai Immortals and can only guarantee they die at some point, not actually make them die.
• Most nonhumans (So Youkai) are building-level at best, and nukes can wipe most of them out.

That's pretty much the summary. There was a bit of lore talk, but yeah.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

There was a bit, but the gist is.

• Nonhumans need the Hakurei Barrier to survive, and the destruction of specific locations or large casualties can disrupt it, so a nuke can wipe out all but a handful of the characters, and in that case, they wouldn't have the mental layer to buff them. The Youkai Expansion Project was created to give them a chance against humans because they needed a buff. GHB was created after, and 90% of them die instantly if it's gone.
• Some abilities aren't as broken as people claim. The examples given were Yuyuko and Remilia. Remilia has never shown to manipulate fate, and Flan commented she probably couldn't. Yuyuko can't kill Hourai Immortals and can only guarantee they die at some point, not actually make them die.
• Most nonhumans (So Youkai) are building-level at best, and nukes can wipe most of them out.

That's pretty much the summary. There was a bit of lore talk, but yeah.

Most of this is stupid for obvious reasons but I wanna call attention to this:

• and the destruction of specific locations or large casualties can disrupt it, so a nuke can wipe out all but a handful of the characters

This only happened because there were a massive number of casualties in the Outside World. They're unironically suggesting that the optimal path to victory is for humanity to nuke itself. Truly, Reddit is the hub of intellectualism, and I am humbled by their immense IQ (in the quadruple digits, no doubt).

Call me a *********, but I miss those days. It was pretty fun.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping someone genuinely tries to downgrade Touhou again. Not the kind of downgrade from someone who just joined the site and barely knows how to string together a coherent argument, but a real downgrade.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

A downgrade sounds like a 1/1000 chance with this series I'll be honest

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

A downgrade sounds like a 1/1000 chance with this series I'll be honest

Is that the odds of one happening, or one being successful?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Both? Both.

Depends if the said person who tries knows what they're talking about.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What adding over 850 new abilities does to a mf