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They trigger [Miracle], which then negates Acausality Type 5.
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Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier
- Thread starter Setsuna_tenma
- Start date
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Why would the Creators come to that fight tho?
That one takes place per normal SBA, so on Earth
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Destiny doesn't have type 5 aca anymore, and the chances of a destiny character not proccing miracle in one way or another is nil
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Since when? Half a year ago it was still there, when was it removed?
Doesn't it mean that they are getting moved around the list?
Miracle doesn't apply to demons, they need to get Creators involved for that stuff
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Does Destiny have any smurfs? Or were they there because of Acausality Type 5?
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No much smurfs
Just avatars of Tier 2
They had layers, a lot of them
But not a lot of versatility there
And not much for interaction too
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Back when the aca type 5 revisions came around, you're prolly thinking of the sword logic page, which is outdated and has been slowly been depricated on the pages in favor of just listing their stuff on the page proper
No? Destiny is still Destiny lol, they still have all the bullshit
I mean, it's weird, I wouldn't say so but like
We have Vex in 6-A who do not have any potential tier 1 fuckery at all (literally part of their narrative), and completely and utterly run circles around the demons, and it ain't even fair, no Acasuality against a Vex is asking to be sent to the torment nexus effectively immediately
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Why am I suddenly going up against Destiny 
Demons already matched with Captain in Equalized speed, let Tensura fight them.
Demons already matched with Captain in Equalized speed, let Tensura fight them.
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Alex brough them up and likeWhy am I suddenly going up against Destiny
Yeah I'm not sure as to how the demons beat destiny tbh
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Yeahhhh, no acausality against a Vex gets you the cum river treatment.
Because it'd be so ******* funny if the High 1-A smurfs were below something pretty non-smurfWhy am I suddenly going up against Destiny
Demons already matched with Captain in Equalized speed, let Tensura fight them.
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Stuff on the level Divine Miracles has the characteristic of being perfectly normal to happen
There's also the stuff with "it has always been this way" and "returning of multiplicity into one"
And we know of those only through Post-Descent Velda
Who is a complete baby to his Pre-Descent state
Who is in turn, also a baby to GHS
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Reminds me of the several page long discussion of Destiny vs Tensura back then
Which I mostly gave up cuz we were going out of that tier anyway
But much less stuff for proper counters
For example, I don't remember hearing much about NEP1&2 stuff in there
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This is weird.
But unless this is directly affecting the Creators, they would still find this odd. All of their billions of avatars, finding the transfer out of the universe they're invading completely normal?
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Stuff isn't called Divine for no reason
Are they a hive mind? Like Creators always know what their Avatars think and are going to do?
Oh, and may also technically affect them if it goes through the bond, which is less fundamental, but idk on that one
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Demons have their own minds; it's just they have no wisdom or self-awareness.
So from what I'm seeing, billions of demons would either be annihilated down to their TS, or BFR'ed away, convinced that this is completely normal, and Creators would step in, cause this is weird from their perspective.
Even more so if this is some kind of Mind Manipulation.
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 5,348
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Realized True Spirit is around 1-C to Low 1-A just by range but protected by [Reincarnation] and [Miracle], which are High 1-A.
Unfortunately, some of this is not accepted yet kek.
Unfortunately, some of this is not accepted yet kek.
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Darkness is what divides what exists from what doesn't; ontological powers (within the verse) by necessity define what is and isn't real by their nature. There's the entire flower game bullshit if we decide to start reaching reaching (not really a reach, but I'd rather not), there's demiurge stuff, and more
It's there, it's just either a)not apparent on first glance b)spread out over a couple of pages or c)a given page, while not outdated, definitely may not have everything it could (in terms of sources/explanations)
And Cui wouldn't go up a spot seeing as he can't exactly do anything to the Destiny peeps lol
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So like, why do they even know that something unusual is happening to the demons?
I'd assume they got teleported more times than one
I'm gonna ask once again, why are we using billions here? I wouldn't mind if they were a hive mind, but they seems functional on their own
Nah
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Shouldn't you just put an outdated tag on the entirety of the verse atp?
And remove them from the list while at it
Because this is impossible to review from the perspective of studying the list
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It's not as if they are outdated, though?
Like, all of the stuff are on the pages, the only thing I guess one could take real issue with is the NPI getting cut off at just "can interact with ontology" and not explaining what ontology covers, but like, they just get haxes equivalent to such instead
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Not really, typically, demons die off with whatever universe they invade. Their getting suddenly teleported would just be odd.
Creators know what's happening to all their Avatars; it's not like they randomly choose to check in to see how they're doing, they're constantly monitoring them across the Multiverse.
The 6-A Key in question is a swarm of billions of demons. So yeah, if it were just one demon being BFR'd, maybe, but billions? They would notice that instantly.
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Would anyone even realize they got teleported to a universe?
For Creators, the "time" Demons spent in a universe is, like, much less than they can react to
So for them it looks like the demons were teleported to some odd space from the start
So they're 6A because it's 9C times a billion for their numericals?
Isn't that invalid stuff that is only possibly applicable to a "civilization" and not "character"?
Which this list is the latter of
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So do you even have a page for Ontology that is up to date with current standards
And let me remind you, that half a year ago, it turned out that some pages were evidently missing CM1 resistance, so I don't even know how true the claim of "everything on pages" is
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They can detect spatial coordinates; it doesn't really matter how quickly it happens, the spatial coordinates still changed.
Speaking of which, which BFR are they using again?
No, they're 6-A because the swarm was more powerful and annihilated a Civilization that had continent-destroying weapons.
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Changed, but twice in a timeframe beyond their perception
Like, what's even the method?
Anything that works ig
They have the no-space-and-time-traces-untrackable teleportation elevated to unfathomable levels
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No, you don't need an explanation page for everything
Not because of it, actually, missing said resistance or the justification of such, but instead because they were missed in the update wave when the CRT got passed
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Omnipresence spatially, caps at doing things instantly/zero-time.
Omnipresence temporally can do things at immeasurable speeds.
But if GHS is acting in the same instant the Demons appear in SBA, then it's just happening in zero-time, which the Creators can perceive.
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But you need to explain the stuff somehow, with it being actually officially accepted
And somehow present links to that in profiles, especially when there's stuff like "can interact with ontology"
Which I don't know how many profiles can have the same problem? It's still categorized as being outdated
Look at Marvel
I think it comes down to the instance of "passives aren't assumed to work on Immeasurable speed characters"
Since it's basically the same stuff: passive perception of change vs immeasurable action
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For an action to be considered immeasurable, it generally has to involve operating outside of linear time, such as acting in the past or future.
If the action occurs in the future, then the demons were not removed instantly, because there would be a period of time before the effect took place. That delay would allow the Creators to appear first.
If the action occurs in the past, the demons still were not removed instantly from their own perspective, because they would exist in the present before the effect reaches them.
In fact, the "past" interpretation only works if the demons are allowed to possess an established history within the CW. If they do not have a pre-existing past there, then the effect would occur at the exact moment they appear via SBA. In that case, the action is simply instantaneous rather than immeasurable.
Since it happens in the same instant they arrive, it would be an instant-speed action that they could react to.
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Which it does
The problem with this (I honestly also argued this stuff multiple times) is that the timeframe of appearance for the mathup per SBA seems to also be kind of immeasurable? In a sense that there's no "moment" of appearance, otherwise there would be an "instant" at which both participants are present on the battlefield, which would allow passives to work, but they are accepted as not working. Meaning that there's no "instant" of appearance
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Immeasurable lag
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Then that would mean they were always, already there, in which case... honestly, this whole debate has gotten really weird. Let's just let Setsuna decide.
@Setsuna_tenma
The Tensei Shitara Characters are 6-A within the Cardinal World, so we assumed the battle took place there. But at this point, it's just making things confusing. You're the OP, so I'm going to leave it up to you.
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Weirdmaggedon for real
It's been an interesting debate so far. Hope it's the same for you
Let's take a break for a friendly exchange
How do you feel about this sequence of events? Any highlights?
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Pretty interesting ngl.
Personally, it's shown me a lot of things in the verse that I left too vague or ignored. Especially stuff like range, as you mentioned.
I would have loved to do this with a more legit character, rather than a civilization.
Personally, it's shown me a lot of things in the verse that I left too vague or ignored. Especially stuff like range, as you mentioned.
I would have loved to do this with a more legit character, rather than a civilization.
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Cool, glad to be of help
We can always discuss potential pairings
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Sooo, when are we doing some verse fights? (official next time?)
Also, the Demon CRT will be delayed, can't find the stuff I am looking for since Yenpress loves to remove stuff randomly from raws...
Rakih_Elyan
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Ian Silverpeak
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With the explanations I've given (and what others like Reaper have said) for why Wanda beats Hatou, can you put her above Hatou in the 9-B list?
(You can remove Storm from 9-B)
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I'm down, but it would have to be in fun and games.
