Axing some Cthulhu Mythos haxes

Mr._East_Statement · Saturday at 05:15

So I believe it is finally time… honestly been around months wanting to make this thread, but a certain CRT just not concluding so I can warp this up, anyway thanks to @Hecky2222 for this really easied my work, otherwise I should've make it up from stretch (plus, I definitely couldn't make it this pretty)

Anyway

So I was checking CM profiles, and wondered how they have these abilities without proper justification (due to old standards? Who knows), checked relevant threads and found nothing justifying them. This thread questions this abilities as whole, if there is good justifications, I don't have problems to replace them. Honestly, Yog-Sothoth is prime example to start with (not that the others are better tbh).

Case 1: NEP

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2, All Aspects) & Abstract Existence (Type 1 - All ultimate gods exist purely as archetypes within the Ultimate Void)

I think the problem is clear here.

Not to mention, there is nothing here to prove how they are transdual, scan literally doesn't mention how they don't "exist", failing to make them Type 1 Nonexistent in first place (let alone aspects which doesn't even have justification), by which requires the character to have some degree of "non-existent" in regard of any of their aspects that is indexed. So NEP should go, unless better evidence given.

Case 2: Paraconsistent Physiology yet no logical negation

Omnipresence & Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 2 - The Ultimate Gods exist in the highest level of reality, the "All-in-One and One-in-All" and true oneness of existence that "belies all local perspectives and partial views" and the multiplicity that comes of them, abolishing and trivializing distinction and making everything identical

For basic understanding, Paraconsistent Physiology is given to an state which violates classical logic and creates logical contradiction. Which nothing here tells us, all that goes to Omnipresence rather than Nonduality.

For a more in depth understanding

A logical negation would be like saying "Sword and not-Sword" means sword and anything that is not a sword.

Whereof the entity transcends the duality of sword and all predication that includes "not-sword."

Or in other words the "Not-Sword" includes every single term that's not identical with "Sword."

Basically it is simple, though different from cosmic dualities, as they can work more so on contraries that also can be complementary.

And you can read Paraconsistent itself too.

Anyway, I believe it should be self evident enough for why the justification is nowhere near enough.

Case 3: Conceptual Manipulation and abilities for simply existing????

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1)

No justification or explanation. Should straight up go.

Matter Manipulation

Same for this I guess?

Immortality (Types 1, 5 & 9)

No scans for them too but I assume they have good scans to justify it logically (Azathoth only has Type 5 lol).

Actually, I won't go even further and link profiles with massive scan/justification problems, we don't question everything now, since it would lead to labelling verse "outdated" as whole.

Extra: Other than Ultimate Ones

And wait, Nodens page has no justification whatsoever what

uhhh… idk if it should be deleted or nah that's with mods to decide, I can just… take away all the abilities that are literally there… yeah…

Oh also, about Hypnos, his Ac5 reasoning is this

Acausality (Type 5 - Traversed through many planes, some of which beyond time, and beyond all thought and entity[1])

Which honestly doesn't sound like Ac5, also the worse part

Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 2)

… Yeah, and his tier is just "H1-B, higher overtime." Definitely it is not the place of it.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

Xdsagecat · Saturday at 05:16

Watching. Infact ib4 this gets moved to staff section.

Mr._East_Statement · Saturday at 06:17

Enter_Bluey · Saturday at 06:32

~~what fans?~~

Mr._East_Statement · Saturday at 06:35

Enter_Bluey said:
~~what fans?~~

~~The true NEP feats of Cthulhu Mythos~~

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 06:35

Enter_Bluey said:
~~what fans?~~

@SuperNova55555 is number 1 CM fan dw

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 06:53

BDE 2 shouldn't be touched since thread from supporters is ongoing.

Immortality prob needs scans, Matter Manipulation wtv too

All else good to go. Conceptual Manipulation comes from fact Archetypes being Abstract nature which has nothing to do with universals and manipulation of it.

Grabbing_dragon · Saturday at 07:51

Pretty straightforward. Everything looks fine.

Mr._East_Statement · Saturday at 08:01

Hecky2222 said:
BDE 2 shouldn't be touched since thread from supporters is ongoing.

Mhm, fine by me not touching it since it is corresponding to another thread, I just wanted to add it for the sake of completeness since I already touched Hypnos' Ac5 (plus, the verse, by either outcomes of the CRT whether in favor of supporters or opposition, going to have him no BDE at H1-B or BDE Type 3, that's why I felt to add it as a reference for mods to keep a look at, there is simply no L1-A grounds, so I indexed this as well).

Hecky2222 said:
Immortality prob needs scans, Matter Manipulation wtv too

At very least they probably can chainscale matter hax to Great Old Ones I guess, that's it though.

Immortality stuff definitely needs to be clarified, since currently some Other Gods have Immos that others don't, Nyar, Aza, and Yog literally being this (I always forget Shub).

Hecky2222 said:
All else good to go. Conceptual Manipulation comes from fact Archetypes being Abstract nature which has nothing to do with universals and manipulation of it.

Pretty much this yeah. It is probably from either some old misconception or old ahh wiki standards thinking AE necessitates CM, which obviously does not work.

Azertyhuuh · Saturday at 12:31

I disagree with what was stated in this thread, and I ask you to review the cosmology itself, since all the evidence is already present there regarding the Ultimate Void and the other voids.

Regarding NEP Type 2, the Ultimate Void lies beyond everything, transcends everything, and even the Dream hierarchy cannot reach it. It exists completely outside all things and surpasses all things; everything also dissolves there, and everything is merely an illusion. Even the voids themselves are still part of the overall structure of the world, whereas the Ultimate Void exists outside all of it and surpasses it entirely. It also transcends logic and is indescribable, beyond mathematics.

Since the Ultimate Void exists outside all existence itself—and existence itself contains voids and surpasses them—it lies completely outside the existence/non-existence dichotomy and fully transcends it.

Even if we assume there are no “voids” at all, the Ultimate Void is still an indescribable void that transcends logic, reason, mathematics, and everything, including all possible opposites that can be defined (existence/non-existence, life/non-life, light/non-light, etc.). Anything defined in such binary terms is still an illusion, whereas the Ultimate Void lies beyond all of that. It cannot be defined as mere non-existence, because non-existence has existence as its logical opposite within binary frameworks, whereas the Ultimate Void, as stated, is indescribable and represents an absolute reality. Concepts like non-existence and all logical dualities are entirely outside of it and are irrelevant illusions from its perspective.

Since it exists outside everything, and the entire world is itself an illusion and not real from the perspective of the Ultimate Void (including spacetime, dimensions, concepts, and all such constructs), all of these are merely illusions relative to it. Therefore, the Ultimate Void possesses all aspects, since all such distinctions are illusory and unreal relative to it.

This justifies its NEP 2, PP2, and Type 5 acausality as well. You should properly review the cosmology as I told you, instead of focusing on small quotes from profiles, because the Ultimate Void and all of these concepts are fully explained within the cosmology, and it is extensive.

As for Concept Type 1, immortality, and similar attributes, these are also already explained there.

Regarding BDE 2, Azathoth exists outside all spacetime and everything else; spacetime itself is also merely an illusion and not real, as I have repeatedly stated.

One more thing: Azathoth is already at Tier 1-A, and the changes simply have not been implemented yet because Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot is busy—you can verify that.

Everything is already clear. It seems the author of the thread has not reviewed the cosmology page or the general page of this work.

SuperNova55555 · Saturday at 13:17

Azertyhuuh said:
As for Concept Type 1, immortality, and similar attributes, these are also already explained there.

Didnt even read the rest. Bro is just straight-up lying here

Hecky2222 said:
@SuperNova55555 is number 1 CM fan dw

Kebabbaro.1 · Saturday at 13:24

I agree, the profiles are too old and without justifications for many of these stuffs

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 13:29

SuperNova55555 said:

Carter perception > OC

Azertyhuuh · Saturday at 13:35

SuperNova55555 said:
Didnt even read the rest. Bro is just straight-up lying here

I only mean immortality. As for CM1, it is also clearly established within the cosmology. If you have any issue with it, you can open another thread regarding the cosmology itself.

The author of the thread thinks the justifications are insufficient, but they are actually sufficient. He can review the cosmology to understand it. It is enough that the Ultimate Void is mentioned; and if he wants to understand the Ultimate Void, he should refer to the cosmology page to learn about it.

It is not possible to include a full explanation of the Ultimate Void within the justification as if it were a cosmology page.

Everything is already present and properly established; the author of the thread simply does not know this. Also, it would be better for you not to respond to my comments with such remarks, since I already know you are opposed to this work anyway—so what should I even expect from you, lol.

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 13:38

Azertyhuuh said:
If you have any issue with it, you can open another thread regarding the cosmology itself.

What

RaikiKurohane99 · Saturday at 13:49

Paraconsistency can stay for the reasons here:

Paraconsistent Physiology Checklist

Not really? Doesn't type 3 literally default to 4 truth states? You have to be neither A (1), nor not A (2), nor both A and not A (3), nor neither A nor not A (4), don't think type 3 can be anything less than 4 states 5 is the minimum: Plurality: Beings which exist beyond the confines of...

vsbattles.com

The rest are fine as removed.

Azertyhuuh · Saturday at 14:53

RaikiKurohane99 said:
Paraconsistency can stay for the reasons here:

Paraconsistent Physiology Checklist

Not really? Doesn't type 3 literally default to 4 truth states? You have to be neither A (1), nor not A (2), nor both A and not A (3), nor neither A nor not A (4), don't think type 3 can be anything less than 4 states 5 is the minimum: Plurality: Beings which exist beyond the confines of...

vsbattles.com

The rest are fine as removed.

There are infinite voids, even beyond infinity itself, and all of these voids transcend thought and every form of entity:

There was a night when winds from unknown spaces whirled us irresistibly into limitless vacua beyond all thought and entity. Perceptions of the most maddeningly untransmissible sort thronged upon us; perceptions of infinity which at the time convulsed us with joy, yet which are now partly lost to my memory and partly incapable of presentation to others. Viscous obstacles were clawed through in rapid succession, and at length I felt that we had been borne to realms of greater remoteness than any we had previously known. My friend was vastly in advance as we plunged into this awesome ocean of virgin aether, and I could see the sinister exultation on his floating, luminous, too youthful memory-face. Suddenly that face became dim and quickly disappeared, and in a brief space I found myself projected against an obstacle which I could not penetrate. It was like the others, yet incalculably denser; a sticky, clammy mass, if such terms can be applied to analogous qualities in a non-material sphere.

The Ultimate Void transcends the limits of logic, mathematics, thought, and everything else, and exists outside all things. It can never be reached, not even by dreams themselves. Everything is nothing but an illusion and is unreal relative to this Ultimate Void, including even these infinite voids—indeed, even voids that go beyond infinity itself. As I said, even dreams themselves cannot reach it.

Since this Void transcends existence and non-existence and exists outside this dichotomy, even existence and non-existence themselves are nothing but illusions. This Ultimate Void is not an ordinary void; it transcends the limits of logic and thought itself and cannot be described in any way.

In this place...

Mathematics was irrelevant.

My knowledge was irrelevant.

Science, Physics, Gravity, and everything I've ever learned... were irrelevant.

No matter how high I tried to climb it in my mind, this place remained above it all.

God help us.

Please... help us... is this real... what kind of monstrosity exists beyond the confines of mathematics and logic?

While bathing and dressing, Walter Gilman reflects on the Ultimate Void as an "ultimate blackness" containing ethereal vortices obeying laws foreign to the physics and math of any conceivable cosmos, which is consistent with this realm being unreachable to the Dreamlands

“Illusion is the only reality, and substance is an impostor.”

“The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate...”

“In its entirety, it goes beyond all distinctions and illusions, creating only illusion, every attempt of conceptualizing it only leads to illusion.”

“Everything in our world is imperfect. For example, the triangle that you draw in the Nie'mada is imperfect and incomplete, but the actual ‘form’ of the triangle is the perfect, abstract idea of a triangle.”

“The philosophy is real and originates from the Elohim themselves, but Plato was the first man to discover this, that's why the philosophy is named after him.”

“The cosmos of our waking knowledge… touches it only as such a bubble may touch its sardonic source when sucked back by the jester’s whim.”

“There are, in such voyages, incalculable local dangers; as well as that shocking final peril… where no dreams reach.”

“the Last Void which is outside all earths, all universes, and all matter.”

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:04

RaikiKurohane99 said:
Paraconsistency can stay for the reasons here:

Paraconsistent Physiology Checklist

Not really? Doesn't type 3 literally default to 4 truth states? You have to be neither A (1), nor not A (2), nor both A and not A (3), nor neither A nor not A (4), don't think type 3 can be anything less than 4 states 5 is the minimum: Plurality: Beings which exist beyond the confines of...

vsbattles.com

The rest are fine as removed.

1. The Ultimate Gods are beyond multiplicity and individuality.
2. They lack the differentiation betweeen Self (A) and everything else that isn't Self (Not A).
3. They are beyond local perspectives that allow beings to view existence from different angles.
4. All-in-One and One-in-All

What is even supposed to be PP here unless we want to give LoTM PP for exactly this

SuperNova55555 said:
Lotm atoms H1-A+

Can we get Godhood PP or will you explain all of this has nothing to do with PP.

Mbpoops · Saturday at 15:08

I agree with the east

SuperNova55555 · Saturday at 15:13

Hecky2222 said:
What is even supposed to be PP here unless we want to give LoTM PP for exactly this

Not to mention the above description isn’t even accurate lmao. LoTM atoms genuinely terramog the verse in self-reflexivity

Bimgus8010 · Saturday at 15:17

@Mr._East_Statement and @Hecky2222 seems to make sense

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:18

SuperNova55555 said:
Not to mention the above description isn’t even accurate lmao. LoTM atoms genuinely terramog the verse in self-reflexivity

Dokja phone might be above both

Grabbing_dragon · Saturday at 15:23

RaikiKurohane99 said:
Paraconsistency can stay for the reasons here:

Paraconsistent Physiology Checklist

Not really? Doesn't type 3 literally default to 4 truth states? You have to be neither A (1), nor not A (2), nor both A and not A (3), nor neither A nor not A (4), don't think type 3 can be anything less than 4 states 5 is the minimum: Plurality: Beings which exist beyond the confines of...

vsbattles.com

The rest are fine as removed.

For statements to be logical negations, one must be true if and only if the other is false. So simply having something represent everything distinct from a certain thing, like “self” and “other” does not make a logical negation. To form a proper logical negation, you need direct statements with “is” and “is not,” or “true” and “false.”

2. They lack the differentiation betweeen Self (A) and everything else that isn't Self (Not A).

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:26

Grabbing_dragon said:
For statements to be logical negations, one must be true if and only if the other is false. So simply having something represent everything distinct from a certain thing, like “self” and “other” does not make a logical negation. To form a proper logical negation, you need direct statements with “is” and “is not,” or “true” and “false.”

2. They lack the differentiation betweeen Self (A) and everything else that isn't Self (Not A).

Tbf that doesn't really matter. It is js proving them dissolving into one. Which has nothing to do with immunities(What exactly PP supposed to do) unless we want to give PP for ummmm for beauty or smth indexing???? Literally LoTM Godhood has this but way better justifications. I don't think that is even PP

Azertyhuuh · Saturday at 15:29

I have already clarified the matters, and Raiki has also clarified one aspect here. I also told you that Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot upgraded the work to 1-A in his thread here, but he is very busy, so he has not been able to apply the changes yet.

I disagree with this entire thread and I want the staff to review the cosmology, the comments I made, the evidence provided, and RaikiKurohane99’s comment as well. We should also wait for supporters to arrive here, because what is happening here is literally just an attack on the work itself.

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:34

Azertyhuuh said:
I have already clarified the matters, and Raiki has also clarified one aspect here. I also told you that Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot upgraded the work to 1-A in his thread here, but he is very busy, so he has not been able to apply the changes yet.

I disagree with this entire thread and I want the staff to review the cosmology, the comments I made, the evidence provided, and RaikiKurohane99’s comment as well. We should also wait for supporters to arrive here, because what is happening here is literally just an attack on the work itself.

Azerty, if you can't provide some meaningful argument and continue to larp, please just don't comment because it makes thread more and harder to evaluate, one supporter already agreed with OP, idk what cosmology/dreaming/illusions has to do with NEP even.

Mbpoops · Saturday at 15:35

What does 1-A have to do with this crt..? BDE2 removal ig?

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:39

Mbpoops said:
What does 1-A have to do with this crt..? BDE2 removal ig?

Pretty sure BDE 2 can stay cuz 1-A was accepted

Mr._East_Statement said:
Mhm, fine by me not touching it since it is corresponding to another thread, I just wanted to add it for the sake of completeness since I already touched Hypnos' Ac5 (plus, the verse, by either outcomes of the CRT whether in favor of supporters or opposition, going to have him no BDE at H1-B or BDE Type 3, that's why I felt to add it as a reference for mods to keep a look at, there is simply no L1-A grounds, so I indexed this as well).

Hecky2222 said:
BDE 2 shouldn't be touched since thread from supporters is ongoing.

If @Azertyhuuh stops being devious and actually tracks thread without larping I don't think he would make larp comments like that

So yeah it is outright 1-A @RaikiKurohane99 accepted here, I don't see your argument "It is possibly 1-A so PP would work" working here.

Mbpoops · Saturday at 15:41

Hecky2222 said:
Pretty sure BDE 2 can stay cuz 1-A was accepted

Just make it BDE3 atp

RaikiKurohane99 · Saturday at 15:46

Hecky2222 said:
What is even supposed to be PP here unless we want to give LoTM PP for exactly this

Grabbing_dragon said:
For statements to be logical negations, one must be true if and only if the other is false. So simply having something represent everything distinct from a certain thing, like “self” and “other” does not make a logical negation. To form a proper logical negation, you need direct statements with “is” and “is not,” or “true” and “false.”

2. They lack the differentiation betweeen Self (A) and everything else that isn't Self (Not A).

I don't particularly care about which verse gets what ability. If something else can attain the ability through the same context, sure.

Aside from what I said previously in this thread, Logical dualities are "X and not X". But these are only specific dualities, such as Light and Non-Light, Existence and Nonexistence, etc. They do not exhaust all perspectives when it comes to exhausting possibilities.

On the other hand, the distinction between "Self" and "Everything else" is the purest and most general form of Logical Duality since this duality exits from all perspectives that have form, that can distinguish between oneself and the rest of reality.

While some might say that this would make all Omnipresent beings nondual, that is not the case. Just as we do not assume Omnipresence over a 2-C cosmology is not any higher than 2-C, we do not assume Omnipresence in a setting with no logical dualities established is paraconsistent either. For something like that to be valid, Logical dualities must first be established within the verse.

RaikiKurohane99 · Saturday at 15:49

Hecky2222 said:
So yeah it is outright 1-A @RaikiKurohane99 accepted here, I don't see your argument "It is possibly 1-A so PP would work" working here.

Then I assume the profiles haven't been updated?

Well, in any case, I still think it should be indexed. It's the same as how a Tier 0 has all abilities but some are still indexed instead of just giving it Omnipotence.

Nonynho · Saturday at 15:56

Hecky2222 said:
@SuperNova55555 is number 1 CM fan dw

that's not true, i'm the one who loves Concept Manipulation the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/j

all seemed pretty concise tbf, so i'd agree with OP and with the goat @RaikiKurohane99's first post

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 15:57

Nonynho said:
that's not true, i'm the one who loves Concept Manipulation the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CM = Cthulhu Mythos in context

Mbpoops · Saturday at 16:02

Hecky2222 said:
CM = Cthulhu Mythos in context

Nonynho · Saturday at 16:03

Hecky2222 said:
CM = Cthulhu Mythos in context

Nonynho said:
/j

Azertyhuuh · Saturday at 16:19

Hecky2222 said:
Pretty sure BDE 2 can stay cuz 1-A was accepted

If @Azertyhuuh stops being devious and actually tracks thread without larping I don't think he would make larp comments like that

So yeah it is outright 1-A @RaikiKurohane99 accepted here, I don't see your argument "It is possibly 1-A so PP would work" working here.

It is relevant to the discussion.

In this comment, I already provided all the evidence, and it is all documented in the cosmology page. The complete explanation of the Ultimate Void is found there, which is why you should review it to understand the justification for NEP 2

There are infinite voids, even voids beyond infinity itself, and all of them transcend thought. The Dreamlands represent the highest structure in the setting, yet even they cannot reach the Ultimate Void.

There was a night when winds from unknown spaces whirled us irresistibly into limitless vacua beyond all thought and entity. Perceptions of the most maddeningly untransmissible sort thronged upon us; perceptions of infinity which at the time convulsed us with joy, yet which are now partly lost to my memory and partly incapable of presentation to others. Viscous obstacles were clawed through in rapid succession, and at length I felt that we had been borne to realms of greater remoteness than any we had previously known. My friend was vastly in advance as we plunged into this awesome ocean of virgin aether, and I could see the sinister exultation on his floating, luminous, too youthful memory-face. Suddenly that face became dim and quickly disappeared, and in a brief space I found myself projected against an obstacle which I could not penetrate. It was like the others, yet incalculably denser; a sticky, clammy mass, if such terms can be applied to analogous qualities in a non-material sphere.

The Ultimate Void is the final void, existing outside everything. It transcends the limits of mathematics and logic themselves, and it cannot be described, comprehended, or defined. Any definition, meaning, or logical framework is inferior to it. Even the Dreamlands are incapable of reaching the Ultimate Void.

Since the Ultimate Void transcends the limits of logic and thought, is indescribable, and exists outside everything—including the infinite voids, the voids beyond infinity, the Dreamlands, and everything else—it also exists beyond the duality of existence and non-existence.

Furthermore, all of these things are merely illusions and are unreal in comparison to the Ultimate Void. No matter how you attempt to define, describe, or conceptualize it, doing so only results in illusion, because everything is an illusion rather than true reality. The Ultimate Void alone is the absolute reality, whereas everything else—the infinite voids, the Dreamlands, and all other things—is merely an illusion and cannot reach the Ultimate Void.

In this place...

Mathematics was irrelevant.

My knowledge was irrelevant.

Science, Physics, Gravity, and everything I've ever learned... were irrelevant.

No matter how high I tried to climb it in my mind, this place remained above it all.

God help us.

Please... help us... is this real... what kind of monstrosity exists beyond the confines of mathematics and logic?

Click to expand...

While bathing and dressing, Walter Gilman reflects on the Ultimate Void as an "ultimate blackness" containing ethereal vortices obeying laws foreign to the physics and math of any conceivable cosmos, which is consistent with this realm being unreachable to the Dreamlands

Click to expand...

“Illusion is the only reality, and substance is an impostor.”

Click to expand...

“The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate...”

Click to expand...

“In its entirety, it goes beyond all distinctions and illusions, creating only illusion, every attempt of conceptualizing it only leads to illusion.”

Click to expand...

“Everything in our world is imperfect. For example, the triangle that you draw in the Nie'mada is imperfect and incomplete, but the actual ‘form’ of the triangle is the perfect, abstract idea of a triangle.”

Click to expand...

“The philosophy is real and originates from the Elohim themselves, but Plato was the first man to discover this, that's why the philosophy is named after him.”

Click to expand...

“The cosmos of our waking knowledge… touches it only as such a bubble may touch its sardonic source when sucked back by the jester’s whim.”

Click to expand...

“There are, in such voyages, incalculable local dangers; as well as that shocking final peril… where no dreams reach.”

Click to expand...

“the Last Void which is outside all earths, all universes, and all matter.”

Click to expand...

SuperNova55555 · Saturday at 16:33

RaikiKurohane99 said:
I don't particularly care about which verse gets what ability. If something else can attain the ability through the same context, sure.

Aside from what I said previously in this thread, Logical dualities are "X and not X". But these are only specific dualities, such as Light and Non-Light, Existence and Nonexistence, etc. They do not exhaust all perspectives when it comes to exhausting possibilities.

On the other hand, the distinction between "Self" and "Everything else" is the purest and most general form of Logical Duality since this duality exits from all perspectives that have form, that can distinguish between oneself and the rest of reality.

While some might say that this would make all Omnipresent beings nondual, that is not the case. Just as we do not assume Omnipresence over a 2-C cosmology is not any higher than 2-C, we do not assume Omnipresence in a setting with no logical dualities established is paraconsistent either. For something like that to be valid, Logical dualities must first be established within the verse.

Disagree. Self and Other are both existents.

PP concerns itself with 3 categories here: “Self”, the “absence of self” and the “Others”. PP would be granted the prior two.

The “absence of Self” is a non-existent, whereas “others” are existents differently from the former.

I guess the analogy would be 1, 0 and every other number(?)

Nevertheless, it doesn’t fit the standard.

Not that I don’t personally think the whole PP thing is complete bull but whatever.

RaikiKurohane99 · Saturday at 18:01

SuperNova55555 said:
Disagree. Self and Other are both existents.

PP concerns itself with 3 categories here: “Self”, the “absence of self” and the “Others”. PP would be granted the prior two.

The “absence of Self” is a non-existent, whereas “others” are existents differently from the former.

I guess the analogy would be 1, 0 and every other number(?)

Nevertheless, it doesn’t fit the standard.

Not that I don’t personally think the whole PP thing is complete bull but whatever.

You do not need the dualities to be existence and nonexistence for them to be qualifiable for logical dualities. That's only one way to put it, but not the only one.

From our verse page:

This can be linked to the idea of dualities and hence also Nonduality. True and false are dualities, as is having and not having a property. In that way, being beyond such dualities would qualify as having Paraconsistent Physiology. More generally, existing outside of any duality where it's logically necessary to participate in one or the other would qualify.

The logical duality in relationship to X (true) is whatever is not X (false). That does not mean both cannot be existent.

The logical duality of self, or the absence of self, would not be Nonexistence but simply whatever (and everything) that is not self.

A particular thing can form a duality with anything that is not that thing.

Otherwise, from your logic, the logical negation of anything ultimately ends up being nonexistence, and at that point it is simply a relation between existence and nonexistence. We do not however grant being outside that relation as Type 2, and instead only give such a state Type 1 Paraconsistent Physiology.

In fact, if it exists in a setting, nonexistence itself would still fall under "Not X" in a logically dual relation to "Self", since nonexistence is "not" that particular "self".

SuperNova55555 · Saturday at 18:08

RaikiKurohane99 said:
You do not need the dualities to be existence and nonexistence for them to be qualifiable for logical dualities. That's only one way to put it, but not the only one.

From our verse page:

The logical duality in relationship to X (true) is whatever is not X (false). That does not mean both cannot be existent.

The logical duality of self, or the absence of self, would not be Nonexistence but simply whatever (and everything) that is not self.

A particular thing can form a duality with anything that is not that thing.

Otherwise, from your logic, the logical negation of anything ultimately ends up being nonexistence, and at that point it is simply a relation between existence and nonexistence. We do not however grant being outside that relation as Type 2, and instead only give such a state Type 1 Paraconsistent Physiology.

In fact, if it exists in a setting, nonexistence itself would still fall under "Not X" in a logically dual relation to "Self", since nonexistence is "not" that particular "self".

-> Fire is “Not Water”
-> Water is logically dual with Not Water
-> So, Water is logically dual with Fire

Get the issue with the concept of PP, I suppose?

In any case:

More generally, existing outside of any duality where it's logically necessary to participate in one or the other would qualify.

For PP to work here, then, it requires “nothingness” to be apart of “Other”, otherwise you could be “not-self” without being “other” as merely nothingness. That is the consequence the ability.

And that is in fact how it is applied. All PP is built on the juxtaposition of a property and non-existence, because that is what the wiki defines as its negation.

Hecky2222 · Saturday at 18:13

RaikiKurohane99 said:
You do not need the dualities to be existence and nonexistence for them to be qualifiable for logical dualities. That's only one way to put it, but not the only one.

From our verse page:

The logical duality in relationship to X (true) is whatever is not X (false). That does not mean both cannot be existent.

The logical duality of self, or the absence of self, would not be Nonexistence but simply whatever (and everything) that is not self.

A particular thing can form a duality with anything that is not that thing.

Otherwise, from your logic, the logical negation of anything ultimately ends up being nonexistence, and at that point it is simply a relation between existence and nonexistence. We do not however grant being outside that relation as Type 2, and instead only give such a state Type 1 Paraconsistent Physiology.

In fact, if it exists in a setting, nonexistence itself would still fall under "Not X" in a logically dual relation to "Self", since nonexistence is "not" that particular "self".

Self = Me
Others = You all

Just because others are not me doesn't create true and false, with similar reasons stated above we never give good and evil, dualities and so on PP. In fact i think example of red and not red from PP page was implied to say "not red is not different color"

Icl bro PP is so cooked if js accept statements like this

Axing some Cthulhu Mythos haxes

Similar threads