Come to think of it, given that you just reminded me of the ghost academy manga apocalypse class nukes statements. We can make an argument for Warfield's nukes on Char to be apocalypse class. Given they're ok to use the apocalypse nukes against them. He has fancier silos and does a massive barrage against us. Our hive cluster is stated to be barely strong enough to survive the onslaught.
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Not_Icarus
OneBleachHurricane
The fact that in lore that Battlecruisers can be equipped with Nuclear Missiles as shown with Confederate Battlecruisers, Sons of Korhal Battlecruisers, and Valerian Era Dominion Battlecruisers. Also the fact that they have missile launchers in LotV used on the Spear of Adun supports that Battlecruisers can fire missiles which can be either armed with standard explosive warheads or nuclear warheads
In lore this is only for the Confederacy, and probably the Umojans and Kel-Morians, because of what they did to Korhal and the politcal backlash that resulted from it. The Sons of Korhal or specifically Mengsk has no such reluctancy on using any means to beat the Confederacy. Also the fact that UED chain of command remined us that Mengsk would be very willing to nuke Korhal again to defeat the UED.
Again in lore, only the Confederates and possibly the Umojans (Since they're self righteous people) and Kel-Morians (Since the Confederates more or less beat them in the Guild Wars) limited themselves to tactical nukes. SoK were stealing what ever they could from the Confederates.
Not_Icarus
Battlecruisers indeed to have ship-to-ship nuclear missiles too and not just bombardment nukes. Iirc Evolution also talked about it
I agree that Mengsk would violate that law because he only sees himself as the center of the universe.
The dominion still followed those laws when they reached into power. Since we had no instances of them ever nuking other terrans using apocalypse class nukes against each other since the nuking of Korhal. But yeah like I said before, Mengsk would violate that law cwhen he feels like it.
I agree that Mengsk would violate that law because he only sees himself as the center of the universe.
The dominion still followed those laws when they reached into power. Since we had no instances of them ever nuking other terrans using apocalypse class nukes against each other since the nuking of Korhal. But yeah like I said before, Mengsk would violate that law cwhen he feels like it.
OneBleachHurricane
So again is there any concrete evidence that Apocalypse Class Nukes weren't made the standard used Nuke by the Dominion under Mengsk?
Dominion manufactured Apocalypse Class Nukes need to be laser designated by a Ghost compared to the Apocalypse Class Nukes used by the Confederacy.
No confirmation on this though, since against the Umojans they were in a Cold War (Developing new tech and weapons to one up each other), while the Kel-Morians are no longer seen as a superpower in terran space since they are more or less under the thumb of the Dominion
The Dominion used it on a mining world that had zerg presence
That's what he did in the Ultralisk Evolution mission. Both missions took place on Korhal, in urban areas, which Mengsk liberally ordered to be nuked.
So again is there any concrete evidence that Apocalypse Class Nukes weren't made the standard used Nuke by the Dominion under Mengsk?
Dominion manufactured Apocalypse Class Nukes need to be laser designated by a Ghost compared to the Apocalypse Class Nukes used by the Confederacy.
Not_Icarus
The Umojans and Dominion never to rarely ever fought each other. Like you said, it was mostly a cold war between the 2 as the umojans don't have the numbers and production to engage in a war with the dominion and the dominion preferred not to destroy them and desired more political and economical control over all the terrans in the sector. The most notable battle between them at least in recent memory is the raid on research station eb-103. Just because you develop weapons against your enemies doesn't mean you actively you use it against them all the time.
They nuked a world devoid of any Terran lives aside from a bunch of heirs of the old families' children. Mengsk can easily justify that as wiping off the sector threat from the planet. Mind you those kids were also later executed by Mengsk as he hates Confederate old world.
The terran anti full scale nuclear law like I said. We really don't have any confirmation of them being the standard arsenal for dominion nukes. The Hyperion in Evolution still carried tactical nukes for their weaker end nukes (10 kilotons). Also the terrans never lost orbital bombardment capabilities, they mostly rely on ghosts them for more precision and restraint. Plus the whole anti hacking thing.
They nuked a world devoid of any Terran lives aside from a bunch of heirs of the old families' children. Mengsk can easily justify that as wiping off the sector threat from the planet. Mind you those kids were also later executed by Mengsk as he hates Confederate old world.
The terran anti full scale nuclear law like I said. We really don't have any confirmation of them being the standard arsenal for dominion nukes. The Hyperion in Evolution still carried tactical nukes for their weaker end nukes (10 kilotons). Also the terrans never lost orbital bombardment capabilities, they mostly rely on ghosts them for more precision and restraint. Plus the whole anti hacking thing.
Not_Icarus
The Hyperion at that time is also a dominion flagship btw.
OneBleachHurricane
Earlier you said:
Then I said that all Battlecruisers are capable of carrying missiles with differing warheads.
Confederates (From Apocalypse Class to Tactical Nukes).
Sons of Korhal/ Mengsk Dominion (Apocalypse Class reconfigured as Tactical Nukes)
Valerian Dominion (Regular Missiles to 10 Kiloton Tactical Nukes at the minimum)
Which you cannot prove that Mengsk follows
Other than the Dominion using them casually, the Cyrus used twelve on a cluster of hatcheries then were planning on destroying another hatchery before they were shot down by spore cannons.
Valerian Era Dominion Battlecruisers hence the weaker Nukes
Earlier you said:
"normally not equipped with such measures". You were saying that Battlecruisers were normally not capable of launching missiles, if you meant that they weren't armed with those specific missiles your statement would have been "normally not equipped with such weapons/missiles/warheads/etc."
Then I said that all Battlecruisers are capable of carrying missiles with differing warheads.
Confederates (From Apocalypse Class to Tactical Nukes).
Sons of Korhal/ Mengsk Dominion (Apocalypse Class reconfigured as Tactical Nukes)
Valerian Dominion (Regular Missiles to 10 Kiloton Tactical Nukes at the minimum)
Valerian Era Dominion Battlecruisers
Not_Icarus
The only confirmed example we have of apocalypse class nukes being explicitly used were during Ghost Academy. You can't prove that Mengsk used them everywhere else. We have no statements confirming them being standard. Mengsk still had to put on the facade of being a benevolent leader to people for most of his rule. Full scale nuclear weapons are still a sore memory for many terrans around the sector.
Valerian is more peaceful yes. But he still inherited his father's arsenal and even continued production on new weapons like the Xanthos. The most powerful ground unit the dominion has ever seen.
And yes I should have clarified better. Battlecruisers are not normally equipped with apocalypse class nukes in all the eras of terran society.
Valerian is more peaceful yes. But he still inherited his father's arsenal and even continued production on new weapons like the Xanthos. The most powerful ground unit the dominion has ever seen.
And yes I should have clarified better. Battlecruisers are not normally equipped with apocalypse class nukes in all the eras of terran society.
OneBleachHurricane
The facts we have on the matter are:
Mengsk Dominion Apocalypse Nukes are reconfigured to have the same system as Confederate Tactical Nukes
Mengsk Dominion Apocalypse Nukes are casually used by a Dominion Commander
Mnegsk has no reluctancy on using WMD nor sacrificing planets/people
Isn't that what you're trying to do with Warfield in HotS?
The facts we have on the matter are:
Mengsk Dominion Apocalypse Nukes are reconfigured to have the same system as Confederate Tactical Nukes
Mengsk Dominion Apocalypse Nukes are casually used by a Dominion Commander
Mnegsk has no reluctancy on using WMD nor sacrificing planets/people
OneBleachHurricane
He controls the news though
Not_Icarus
My main point is that he didn't use apocalypse class nukes against those ultralisks in their evolution mission on Korhal.
Mengsk has never used apocalypse class nukes on humans and other majorly human populated worlds as that is major news to all terrans. It would make him look explicitly worse and the same as the confederacy (granted he is that lol). While coop makes lots of nods to a coop commander's personality and lore, they're still ultimately non-canon and don't reflect full reality of the games.
Not all news, people like Michael Liberty do their own independent news revealing more truthful reporting about Mengsk and the dominion. Media Blitz's ending has entire news channels filled to the brim attacking Mengsk for his use of psi emitters on Tarsonis. The UNN is just the most majorly known one due to being directly in the dominion's pocket money.
Mengsk has never used apocalypse class nukes on humans and other majorly human populated worlds as that is major news to all terrans. It would make him look explicitly worse and the same as the confederacy (granted he is that lol). While coop makes lots of nods to a coop commander's personality and lore, they're still ultimately non-canon and don't reflect full reality of the games.
Not all news, people like Michael Liberty do their own independent news revealing more truthful reporting about Mengsk and the dominion. Media Blitz's ending has entire news channels filled to the brim attacking Mengsk for his use of psi emitters on Tarsonis. The UNN is just the most majorly known one due to being directly in the dominion's pocket money.
Not_Icarus
Warfield in HotS is fair game because it's directly the Zerg's main home world.
OneBleachHurricane
If you don't have any statement then it's only fair that you should use a conservative value. In other words the minimum known value of Dominion Nukes which is 10 Kilotons.
Where's it stated that he used Apocalypse Class Nukes?
If you don't have any statement then it's only fair that you should use a conservative value. In other words the minimum known value of Dominion Nukes which is 10 Kilotons.
Not_Icarus
No stated yields yes, I just find it to be more believable as apocalypse class nukes than the nukes used on a few Ultralisks on Korhal.
OneBleachHurricane
That's your reason? It would make Mengsk look bad?
You do realize that the Ultralisk Evolution Missions take place during Kerrigan's invasion of Korhal why would he hold back at all? Especially when his troops repeatedly reported back to him that they came back to life, so why wouldn't he escalate?
He was literally willing to destroy a city in the outskirts of Augustgrad just to kill those Ultralisk due to the reports of his troops
That's your reason? It would make Mengsk look bad?
You do realize that the Ultralisk Evolution Missions take place during Kerrigan's invasion of Korhal why would he hold back at all? Especially when his troops repeatedly reported back to him that they came back to life, so why wouldn't he escalate?
He was literally willing to destroy a city in the outskirts of Augustgrad just to kill those Ultralisk due to the reports of his troops
Not_Icarus
Normally it's the use of tactical nukes used to destroy armies. I don't doubt that he would actually destroy the city with nuclear fire, it's just that we've never ever seen an occasion of apocalypse class nukes used to destroy individual units. Apocalypse class nukes are saved more for structures and mass extinction rather than individual units from what we've seen in canon. Plus he never actually destroyed that portion of the city with mass apocalypse class nuke spam in the evolution mission so there's that (it would destroy the nuclear research lab his troops were trying to defend). I'm willing to accept it being apocalypse class nukes if you can find me any good confirmation of them being truly apocalypse class nukes.
OneBleachHurricane
If you don't want to use it then fine, but you won't be able to use it as well.
You're complicating things by repeatedly saying that "the Dominion must be using another type of unnamed nuke because of stuff that happened to another government and it'd be bad for their image" when it's really simple.
Dominion Command doesn't give a concern what happens to fringe worlds, to the point where they're exploiting them, and abandoning them leaving them defenseless as they're more concerned with protecting core worlds. So them being worried that much about their image is something to scoff at.
We're shown that Dominion Apocalypse Class Nukes were reconfigured to be used by Ghosts essentially turning them into Tactical Nukes.
Dominion Commanders don't treat them as something needed to be reserved and casually use them in the dozen.
How is that not simple enough?
We're literally shown that they work like the Nukes in the game, it's clearly the author's intent to show that those Nukes are the same as the ones in the game.
Other than the fact the only know Nukes that the Dominion uses are Apocalypse or the 10 Kiloton types
If you don't want to use it then fine, but you won't be able to use it as well.
You're complicating things by repeatedly saying that "the Dominion must be using another type of unnamed nuke because of stuff that happened to another government and it'd be bad for their image" when it's really simple.
Dominion Command doesn't give a concern what happens to fringe worlds, to the point where they're exploiting them, and abandoning them leaving them defenseless as they're more concerned with protecting core worlds. So them being worried that much about their image is something to scoff at.
We're shown that Dominion Apocalypse Class Nukes were reconfigured to be used by Ghosts essentially turning them into Tactical Nukes.
Dominion Commanders don't treat them as something needed to be reserved and casually use them in the dozen.
How is that not simple enough?
We're literally shown that they work like the Nukes in the game, it's clearly the author's intent to show that those Nukes are the same as the ones in the game.
OneBleachHurricane
You know what, let's continue on this train of thought.
As you said the Terrans limited themselves to Tactical Nuclear Missiles.
10 Kilotons is in the range of real world Tactical Nuclear Missiles.
The Yamato Cannon, when fully charged, has explosive force equal to a low-yield nuclear explosion as stated in the Field Manual.
SC2 Era Battlecruisers are capable of surviving a hit from a Yamato Cannon in comparison to SC1 Era Battlecruisers which were bisected by it.
Small numbers of Scourge were also capable of taking down SC1 Battlecruisers whereas it takes hundreds to take down a Gorgon, which are capable of surviving multiple Yamato Cannon shots.
It's unclear how the Battlecruisers really fared against the Leviathan. In fact they shouldn't even scale to it's tentacles in the first place since we were shown what they're capable of against far larger objects, able to easily pierce through the hull and levels of a ship.
Wraiths, Mutalisks, Hydralisks, and Siege Tanks are capable to damaging Battlecruisers
This makes Tier 7 Scaling more or less consistent
As you said the Terrans limited themselves to Tactical Nuclear Missiles.
10 Kilotons is in the range of real world Tactical Nuclear Missiles.
The Yamato Cannon, when fully charged, has explosive force equal to a low-yield nuclear explosion as stated in the Field Manual.
SC2 Era Battlecruisers are capable of surviving a hit from a Yamato Cannon in comparison to SC1 Era Battlecruisers which were bisected by it.
Small numbers of Scourge were also capable of taking down SC1 Battlecruisers whereas it takes hundreds to take down a Gorgon, which are capable of surviving multiple Yamato Cannon shots.
It's unclear how the Battlecruisers really fared against the Leviathan. In fact they shouldn't even scale to it's tentacles in the first place since we were shown what they're capable of against far larger objects, able to easily pierce through the hull and levels of a ship.
Wraiths, Mutalisks, Hydralisks, and Siege Tanks are capable to damaging Battlecruisers
This makes Tier 7 Scaling more or less consistent
Not_Icarus
They're heartless and leave worlds to rot yes. They still don't apocalypse class nuke other Terran worlds because it's a line that's directly tied to the Confederacy's image.
And yeah the nukes are pretty vague in StarCraft as we only know the literally the highest and lowest class of firepower for them.
I still don't believe they're very commonly used as the go to nukes to use though imo. As apocalypse class nukes are something that's explicitly stated and not just assumed in StarCraft stories.
BCs and silos just have the option to carry apocalypse class nukes, not automatically wield them on the go as the standard. But fine I can compromise and believe in a "possibly" justification for scaling to apocalypse class nukes.
And yeah the nukes are pretty vague in StarCraft as we only know the literally the highest and lowest class of firepower for them.
I still don't believe they're very commonly used as the go to nukes to use though imo. As apocalypse class nukes are something that's explicitly stated and not just assumed in StarCraft stories.
BCs and silos just have the option to carry apocalypse class nukes, not automatically wield them on the go as the standard. But fine I can compromise and believe in a "possibly" justification for scaling to apocalypse class nukes.
Not_Icarus
Tier 7 is more consistent but I prefer tier 6 because of the major feats we have like the leviathan tentacle and kerrigan's storm feat.
Also I got a present from a friend of mine.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Also I got a present from a friend of mine.
Vaporizing a marine (StarCraft)
vsbattles.fandom.com