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4-B MCU OWO???

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The Sokovia feat was previously dismissed due to being a vibranium-based chain reaction that amplifies the energy. Tony heats the vibranium from the below, and gives Thor the signal to strike from above so that the energy keeps doubling back.
According to F.R.I.D.A.Y., Thor can only crack Sokovia if he spreads his energy through the vibranium running underneath the city. With fragmentation that is something like Low 7-B, and with violent fragmentation that is 7-B.

FRIDAY: The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together.

Tony Stark: If it drops?

FRIDAY: Right now the impact would kill thousands. Once it gets high enough: Global extinction.

[...]

FRIDAY: The anti-gravs are rigged to flip. Touch 'em, they'll go full reverse thrust. The city's not coming down slow.

Tony Stark: The spire's Vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it...

FRIDAY: It'll crack, but that's not enough, the impact would still be devastating.

Tony Stark: Maybe if we cap the other end, keep the atomic action doubling back.

FRIDAY: That could vaporize the city, and everyone on it.

Steve Rogers: The next wave's gonna hit any minute. What have you got, Stark?

Tony Stark: Well, nothing great. Maybe a way to blow up the city. That'll keep it from impacting the surface if you guys can get clear.

Steve Rogers: I asked for a solution, not an escape plan.

Tony Stark: Impact radius is getting bigger every second. We're going to have to make a choice.

Natasha Romanoff: Cap, these people are going nowhere. If Stark finds a way to blow this rock...

[...]

Tony Stark: Thor, on my mark. Now!


In Jotunheim, did Thor bust part of the canyon, or the entire canyon?
All values you see were accepted in a CRT with full context and input from normal and calc staff MCU moved up the thread is here but what you're saying isn't necessarily correct anymore
 
If you disagree you can make a CRT but these are already accepted calcs with everything accepted behind them in a CRT now with that in mind do you agree with the CRT and sorry if I sound rude but we're already kinda wrapping up here as everything including this has been accepted by staff and user's already. Ofc except the things I listed above
 
The Sokovia feat was previously dismissed due to being a vibranium-based chain reaction that amplifies the energy. Tony heats the vibranium from the below, and gives Thor the signal to strike from above so that the energy keeps doubling back.
According to F.R.I.D.A.Y., Thor can only crack Sokovia if he spreads his energy through the vibranium running underneath the city. With fragmentation that is something like Low 7-B, and with violent fragmentation that is 7-B.

FRIDAY: The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together.

Tony Stark: If it drops?

FRIDAY: Right now the impact would kill thousands. Once it gets high enough: Global extinction.

[...]

FRIDAY: The anti-gravs are rigged to flip. Touch 'em, they'll go full reverse thrust. The city's not coming down slow.

Tony Stark: The spire's Vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it...

FRIDAY: It'll crack, but that's not enough, the impact would still be devastating.
About this, this is actually referring to Thor being able to crack the spire itself, not Sokovia.

Which I don't have to tell you, is a massive outlier.

Also I don't remember there being proof that the vibranium amplifies energy several times beyond what it gets hit by, it only absorbs it and repels it back at full force.

And I also don't have to tell you that we don't use frag for the Sokovia feat, we use KE.
 
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The Sokovia feat was previously dismissed due to being a vibranium-based chain reaction that amplifies the energy. Tony heats the vibranium from the below, and gives Thor the signal to strike from above so that the energy keeps doubling back.
According to F.R.I.D.A.Y., Thor can only crack Sokovia if he spreads his energy through the vibranium running underneath the city. With fragmentation that is something like Low 7-B, and with violent fragmentation that is 7-B.

FRIDAY: The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together.

Tony Stark: If it drops?

FRIDAY: Right now the impact would kill thousands. Once it gets high enough: Global extinction.

[...]

FRIDAY: The anti-gravs are rigged to flip. Touch 'em, they'll go full reverse thrust. The city's not coming down slow.

Tony Stark: The spire's Vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it...

FRIDAY: It'll crack, but that's not enough, the impact would still be devastating.
Another thing, simply cracking a city wouldn't be enough to call it frag, you'd need to send the fragments flying off as well, at which point we'd switch to KE anyway because of the on-screen nature of the feat. Crack propagation is wildly unpredictable and borderline incalculable.
 
Could be either way, but the context makes it much more likely F.R.I.D.A.Y. was referring to the city. Tony mentioned that the spire is made from vibranium as if that is something they can exploit (if the plan is to destroy the spire, the spire being made from something as tough and wacky as vibranium doesn't help). Thor striking the smaller Captain America shield gets the energy deflected, so it is questionable Tony would think Thor striking a massively larger vibranium object would destroy it, and for F.R.I.D.A.Y. to think Thor would crack it.
Furthermore, when Novi Grad got vaporized, the spire appears to be undamaged with no visible cracks after Thor gave it his best hit.



For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions), but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.

I am skeptical of the applicability of the 7-A feats. For Jotunheim one it is the assumption that the entire super canyon was destroyed instead of just part of it; the Frost Giant king's palace was nearby and it appears mostly intact. For the Sokovia one, it is whether it is a chain-reaction and why Thor would scale to it if so.
 
Could be either way, but the context makes it much more likely F.R.I.D.A.Y. was referring to the city. Tony mentioned that the spire is made from vibranium as if that is something they can exploit (if the plan is to destroy the spire, the spire being made from something as tough and wacky as vibranium doesn't help).
Doubt it, since Tony was specifically referring to the spire itself, not to Sokovia and the land-mass, and once again, cracking =/= fragging. Since it'd take someone of Thanos's caliber to actually do any meaningful irreversible damage like fragging to Vibranium.

Thor striking the smaller Captain America shield gets the energy deflected, so it is questionable Tony would think Thor striking a massively larger vibranium object would destroy it, and for F.R.I.D.A.Y. to think Thor would crack it.
Thor was weakened in his first confrontation with Cap due to the whole Dark Magic thing.

Furthermore, when Novi Grad got vaporized, the spire appears to be undamaged with no visible cracks after Thor gave it his best hit.



I should note that some parts of the spire were torn off, specifically on the top of the spire with the cogs on it, like the top cog that Spidey found in Homecoming in that Damage Control store room.

For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions),
5236 megatons IIRC, the 8 looked more like a 2.

but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.
I don't see how Tony dying to this affects the Stone's durability (Since the 6-C value originates from only the first Snap and this is just for murdering half the universe's living organisms, the second Snap never has a stated value but common sense would dictate that the Stones snapping themselves away would be even more energetic), especially when we know first-hand from What If that the Stones can withstand much, much worse. Like Ultron turning universes into mush with his Stone-amped punches, tanking planetary and galactic explosions at the epicenter, and these stones are the exact same stones used in the MCU as shown in Loki, where the stones were gathered from various variant timelines and used as nothing more than mere paperweights. Even without that the Stones (And by extension, Wanda's own powers which originate from the Mind Stone) already scale well above Thanos.

I am skeptical of the applicability of the 7-A feats. For Jotunheim one it is the assumption that the entire super canyon was destroyed instead of just part of it; the Frost Giant king's palace was nearby and it appears mostly intact. For the Sokovia one, it is whether it is a chain-reaction and why Thor would scale to it if so.
That you'll have to ask Marvel FUTURE about, I only did the calc based on what he found.
 
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For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions), but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.
Are we just ignoring that Thanos was snapping away half of the whole universe while Tony was dusting a few dozen space ships worth of enemies?
 
Could be either way, but the context makes it much more likely F.R.I.D.A.Y. was referring to the city. Tony mentioned that the spire is made from vibranium as if that is something they can exploit (if the plan is to destroy the spire, the spire being made from something as tough and wacky as vibranium doesn't help). Thor striking the smaller Captain America shield gets the energy deflected, so it is questionable Tony would think Thor striking a massively larger vibranium object would destroy it, and for F.R.I.D.A.Y. to think Thor would crack it.
Furthermore, when Novi Grad got vaporized, the spire appears to be undamaged with no visible cracks after Thor gave it his best hit.



The Sokovia feat, as already mentioned above, was already discussed and approved in a separate CRT, both the calculation and the logic behind it. What is said in the movie makes it quite clear that they are referring to the Vibranium Spire and not the city. On top of this, what is seen in that scene is the bottom part of the spire, the part that wasn't hit by Thor's attack.

For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions), but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.
This was already adressed above. On top of the 5.2 gigatons that is clearly shown in the movie, there are multiple supporting feats, with the one that was talked before being Thor destroying the Bifrost bridge in single hit. And then there is the Vibranium feats too, like Thanos destroy Cap's shield and such.
I am skeptical of the applicability of the 7-A feats. For Jotunheim one it is the assumption that the entire super canyon was destroyed instead of just part of it; the Frost Giant king's palace was nearby and it appears mostly intact.
A later scene should prove the validity of the feat.
8204692-7952388349-78471.png
 
Ngl ShadowWhoWalks this is kinda derailing , the validity of the feats and calc's have already been proved(this goes for the 7-A and 6-C) so once again if u have issue with them then make a CRT but don't derail this one we've no reason to reprove these to you when we've already linked you to the CRTs prior and explained why they work you already have this information so I see no point in you arguing around it and ignoring info a simple I agree or disagree with this CRT would suffice since you're not brining any new arguements and everything's been proven already with an numerous pieces of evidence already and on top of that many people have corrected you already so it'd just redundant to be circular and continue this.
 
Ngl ShadowWhoWalks this is kinda derailing , the validity of the feats and calc's have already been proved so once again if u have issue with them then make a CRT but don't derail this one we've no reason to reprove these to you when we've already linked you to the CRTs prior and explained why they work you already have this information so I see no point in you arguing around it and ignoring info a simple I agree or disagree with this CRT would suffice since you're not brining any new arguements and everything's been proven already with an numerous pieces of evidence already and on top of that many people have corrected you already so it'd just redundant to be circular and continue this.
Relax fam, no need to get this heated.
 
Tbh I don’t think it’s detialing to discuss whether or not this is consistent
Nor do I. I provided the link to the other CRT where the questioned feat was accepted after all so that he can read over and look for himself. Imo it just gets weird when you have that info that also links to Calc Blogs and other CRTs fully explaining said feats and are getting explainers from multiple people in different ways explaining all aspects of said feats and still aren't understanding or getting the details. But that's just me if it seems like I wasn't chill that's on me and I apologize,
 
Well, so far we alleviated the Jotunheim feat concerns and the Sokovia feat concerns. And possibly the Stones as well.

Makes me actually think, would it actually make a difference if we just used the low-end of the Earthquake yield that I calculated instead of using the ice frag one? A crack of that magnitude would definitely be Magnitude 9 levels of destruction. Even on a small planet. There's also that they're the same exact value (Minus the differences in decimals). There's no denying that those cracks are definitely the same ones Thor did, given that the Bifrost beams land literally near the palace and that it's pretty much the same spot where Thor just slammed the ice with his hammer.
 
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I should note that some parts of the spire were torn off, specifically on the top of the spire with the cogs on it, like the top cog that Spidey found in Homecoming in that Damage Control store room.
Though it doesn't appear to be bent or deformed even after being directly hit, so it could simply be dissembled.

I don't see how Tony dying to this affects the Stone's durability (Since the 6-C value originates from only the first Snap and this is just for murdering half the universe's living organisms, the second Snap never has a stated value but common sense would dictate that the Stones snapping themselves away would be even more energetic), especially when we know first-hand from What If that the Stones can withstand much, much worse. Like Ultron turning universes into mush with his Stone-amped punches, tanking planetary and galactic explosions at the epicenter, and these stones are the exact same stones used in the MCU as shown in Loki, where the stones were gathered from various variant timelines and used as nothing more than mere paperweights. Even without that the Stones (And by extension, Wanda's own powers which originate from the Mind Stone) already scale well above Thanos.
It is not about the Infinity Stone's durability; more about the backlash on the user from using all Stones not being as powerful as their combined effect.

Actually the surge from destroying the stones is stated to be similar to the first Snap:
ROCKET: When Thanos snapped his fingers, Earth became ground zero for a power surge of ridiculously cosmic proportions. No one's ever seen anything like it... Until two days ago. On this planet.

NEBULA: Thanos is there.

NATASHA ROMANOFF: He used the stones again.

The Stones appear to be significantly more durable than Thanos:
8174215-ezgif-2-5729d5ed0292.gif


Though does anyone really scale to the durability of the Stones? Even Wanda destroying the Mind Stone was exploiting a weakness (being empowered by the same stone and having similar energy signature) rather than pure raw power:
Vision: I think if it were exposed to a sufficiently powerful energy source... something very similar to its own signature, perhaps... its molecular integrity could fail.

The Sokovia feat, as already mentioned above, was already discussed and approved in a separate CRT, both the calculation and the logic behind it. What is said in the movie makes it quite clear that they are referring to the Vibranium Spire and not the city. On top of this, what is seen in that scene is the bottom part of the spire, the part that wasn't hit by Thor's attack.
It also got approved for a long time and then disapproved for a long time. To maintain stability we should cover all bases.
What gets cracked is a tangential point. What matters is:
  • Is this a chain-reaction feat?
If so, then it becomes harder to scale Thor to it.

This was already adressed above. On top of the 5.2 gigatons that is clearly shown in the movie, there are multiple supporting feats, with the one that was talked before being Thor destroying the Bifrost bridge in single hit. And then there is the Vibranium feats too, like Thanos destroy Cap's shield and such.
Did someone figure a way to measure the durability of the Bifrost bridge and vibranium?
Early Thor destroyed the Rainbow Bridge in ten hits. From what I understand, it is possible to interpret the Rainbow Bridge to be Tier 5 or 6 due to being able to channeling the Bifrost's planet destroying energy, but early Thor destroyed it so it sounds really unreasonable to go for that interpretation.

A later scene should prove the validity of the feat.
8204692-7952388349-78471.png
In the first wide shot of the planet, we didn't get a clear look at the right side, but parts of the planet was already fragmenting on its own (properly due to the Casket of Ancient Winters being looted).

But if we say that Early Thor destroyed all that chunk of the planet, then that sounds a lot bigger than Tier 7.

Ngl ShadowWhoWalks this is kinda derailing , the validity of the feats and calc's have already been proved(this goes for the 7-A and 6-C) so once again if u have issue with them then make a CRT but don't derail this one we've no reason to reprove these to you when we've already linked you to the CRTs prior and explained why they work you already have this information so I see no point in you arguing around it and ignoring info a simple I agree or disagree with this CRT would suffice since you're not brining any new arguements and everything's been proven already with an numerous pieces of evidence already and on top of that many people have corrected you already so it'd just redundant to be circular and continue this.
I searched prior; if I found that my exact main points were already discussed I wouldn't have brought them up. Having two simultaneous CRTs arguing for different scalings is inefficient and confusing, and this is far from the first time specific calcs are given more scrutiny in scaling threads; not all approved calcs necessarily get used in a scaling by the way.
Agreeing and Disagreeing should be accompanied with reasons, which might spark discussions (fruitful ones I hope).
 
Though it doesn't appear to be bent or deformed even after being directly hit, so it could simply be dissembled.


It is not about the Infinity Stone's durability; more about the backlash on the user from using all Stones not being as powerful as their combined effect.

Actually the surge from destroying the stones is stated to be similar to the first Snap:
ROCKET: When Thanos snapped his fingers, Earth became ground zero for a power surge of ridiculously cosmic proportions. No one's ever seen anything like it... Until two days ago. On this planet.

NEBULA: Thanos is there.

NATASHA ROMANOFF: He used the stones again.

The Stones appear to be significantly more durable than Thanos:
8174215-ezgif-2-5729d5ed0292.gif


Though does anyone really scale to the durability of the Stones?
The Stones already scale way higher than that 5.2 gigaton energy surge.

Even Wanda destroying the Mind Stone was exploiting a weakness (being empowered by the same stone and having similar energy signature) rather than pure raw power:
Vision: I think if it were exposed to a sufficiently powerful energy source... something very similar to its own signature, perhaps... its molecular integrity could fail.
I'm looking at this as a case involving both raw power and being of a similar energy signature based on Vision's statement.

What gets cracked is a tangential point.
That's not at all what Tony implies. He was referring to the entire spire itself, regardless of where Thor hit it, he didn't even mention where Thor would have to hit it.

What matters is:
  • Is this a chain-reaction feat?
If so, then it becomes harder to scale Thor to it.
I find it quite hard to believe this to be a chain reaction feat, given that vibranium can only absorb the kinetic energy and then expel it all at its original yield.

Did someone figure a way to measure the durability of the Bifrost bridge and vibranium?
Early Thor destroyed the Rainbow Bridge in ten hits. From what I understand, it is possible to interpret the Rainbow Bridge to be Tier 5 or 6 due to being able to channeling the Bifrost's planet destroying energy, but early Thor destroyed it so it sounds really unreasonable to go for that interpretation.
The Bifrost Bridge is an easy one to assume. Pre-Awakening Thor took ten hits with his hammer, Awakened Thor casually blew up the section with his bare hands. Awakened Thor is thus 10x stronger.

Vibranium basically scales to Thanos whacking it with his Helicopter blade so draw whatever conclusions you wanna draw from that.

Also, the Bifrost wasn't going to one-shot the planet instantly, it was going to destroy the planet over a period of time.

In the first wide shot of the planet, we didn't get a clear look at the right side, but parts of the planet was already fragmenting on its own (properly due to the Casket of Ancient Winters being looted).

But if we say that Early Thor destroyed all that chunk of the planet, then that sounds a lot bigger than Tier 7.
Here's the thing, we don't know the size of Jotunheim, that could greatly influence the result.

Plus, there's always the new curvature formula, but then there's the problem of the cracks being curved and the depth of those cracks being shown to be even deeper there (So much so that I don't think we could reliably get any measurements for that). Not only that, the new cracks in the Bifrost Scene look considerably more severe than what we were shown in the earlier scenes where they were just landscaping effects, instead of a massive gaping hole on the face of the planet itself.

The novel does mention Thor shaking the planet with his hammer strike, but again, we don't know the planet's exact size (It could be the size of Pluto or it could be the size of Earth), and we don't know how much of the earthquake the people there could feel, which would also greatly influence the result.
 
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I just wanna say, despite Strange would be High 7-A, most of his abilities are dura negation so i think this is perfectly balanced
Strange won't be getting an upgrade from this.

By the way, I proposed changing the AP of Strange and the other masters of the mystic arts to Unknown. Should we apply that, or should I make a separate CRT for that?
 
Why does Strange even have a infinity war key? Is he ever stated to get stronger?

Anyway, for sorcerers, it's Unknown AP for Magic and 7-B+ dura for shields
Yes in infinity War commentary "Doctor Strange is one of Avengers: Infinity War's best characters and the Russos pushed his powers further than we've ever seen before. According to Joe Russo, this is by design as the additional few years between this appearance and his solo movie allowed him to master his abilities. This was on display in Thor: Ragnarok briefly, but Strange gets to conjure up even more magic here. Given the level of power he now possesses and controls, Joe says he's one of the most powerful characters the MCU has to offer. One could say Doctor Strange is finally the Master of the Mystic Arts." https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-director-commentary-reveals/amp/
 
They have. I can be the one who applies the changes. I need pages unlocked for:

 
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