5-B Pokémon Upgrade

[StrymULTRA]

The Mega Rayquaza calc has several issues:

• It extremely lowballed the mass, making the planet literally 229.7 times lighter, while already accepted calcs use the actual weight of Earth, which is of 5.9722e24 kg instead of 2.6e22 kg
• The debris distance is lowballed too, since is clear that in the scan anything of the planet was shattered across the panel like here.
• The timeframe seems way less than even 30 seconds, is definitely way faster than just that.

I've already calculated this feat at 11.12 Ninatons (5-A+) in another wiki, and it respects Relativistic KE rules of this one since an higher speed was already accepted in a similar calc.

So it should be like this (already created the blog for vsb)

• Upgrading Deoxys to 5-A+
• Mew will be "5-A+, High 5-A with Genesis Supernova"
• Base Mewtwo, Base Rayquaza and comparable mons will be 5-A+
• Mega Mewtwo and Genesect will be "High 5-A, likely 4-B"
• Like the two mons mentioned before, any mon which is currently "5-B, likely 4-B" like the Tao Trio or the Aura Trio will become "High 5-A, likely 4-B"
• Cobalion, Virizion and Terrakion will be upgraded to "High 5-A, likely 4-B", with them being baseline in High 5-A
• Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre will be Baseline 5-A+ (which is 8.257 Ninatons) due to backscaling from Deoxys and they shouldn't be too weaker than it
• Hoopa will be "High 5-A, possibly 4-B"
• Mega Latios and Mega Latias will be just 5-A, but the value is between Baseline 5-A and Baseline 5-A+

 

[Imaginym]

Bumping for interest.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You have my attention. I'll wait for more input.

 

[Tllmbrg]

We should get calc group members input on this

 

[Bobsican]

This seems fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We should get calc group members input on this

I already pointed out

(if my calc is accepted, I'll bring it here as a blog in this wiki)

Asked to Ant to being some calc members and Pokémon experts here.

 

[Antvasima]

@The_real_cal_howard @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Kirbyelmejor @Inverted_Tempest @Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou) @Magi_Hussie @Starter_Pack @Bobsican @GyroNutz @Nemo212 @Robot972 @Udlmaster @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera

Would you be willing to provide some input here?

@Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin @TheRustyOne

Would you be willing to help out with calculations?

 

[SMASHssf2]

That's interesting

 

[Udlmaster]

if what he’s saying is correct, I agree.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Oh hey, what's that circular curvy thing behind all those rocks? Looks like the meteor didn't actually destroy the planet.

Also, the situation was completely hypothetical AND the meteor itself was specifically stated to be only 6 miles long (a definite highball tbh)... which according to our asteroid calc site is only about 900 megatons.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Oh hey, what's that circular curvy thing behind all those rocks? Looks like the meteor didn't actually destroy the planet.

Also, the situation was completely hypothetical AND the meteor itself was specifically stated to be only 6 miles long (a definite highball tbh)... which according to our asteroid calc site is only about 900 megatons.

The whole context was the meteor going to bust the planet, a thing that was portrayed even in games (i don't have the links to the gameplay atm), plus it was definitely a supernatural meteor like any planet busting one of such size

 

[StrymULTRA]

No wait, is confirmed being a planet busting one at 47:40 and 52:10

 

[Robot972]

Oh hey, what's that circular curvy thing behind all those rocks? Looks like the meteor didn't actually destroy the planet.

If I'm looking at the correct spot, it just looks like it's those same lines and particle dots present elsewhere in the image, but just covering a larger chunk of the earth. Obviously it's a bit hard to tell from the black-and-white imagery, but I tried to outline what landmasses I could distinguish just to prove the planet was blown up.

Also, the situation was completely hypothetical AND the meteor itself was specifically stated to be only 6 miles long (a definite highball tbh)... which according to our asteroid calc site is only about 900 megatons.

Yes, the statement and image contradict each other, but can you imagine how tiny Rayquaza would be if they actually rendered it correctly? There would be a like 1-2 pixel wide yellow line that flashes across the screen before the meteor just decides to explode. It wouldn't look nearly as dramatic (which yes, I recognize that the scene doesn't look very dramatic to begin with cause cartoony 3D models, but that's besides the point)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh hey, what's that circular curvy thing behind all those rocks? Looks like the meteor didn't actually destroy the planet.

This is the only argument to have some weight behind it. I disagree of course, as every bit of context goes with planet busting so that must be the moon or smth else. But the size argument and comparing it to a real life one of that size despite the former being controlled by a sentient superpowered psychic virus isn’t a sound argument

 

[Imaginym]

Yes, the statement and image contradict each other, but can you imagine how tiny Rayquaza would be if they actually rendered it correctly? There would be a like 1-2 pixel wide yellow line that flashes across the screen before the meteor just decides to explode. It wouldn't look nearly as dramatic (which yes, I recognize that the scene doesn't look very dramatic to begin with cause cartoony 3D models, but that's besides the point)

I'm inclined to agree with this. It wouldn't be practical to depict Rayquaza & the meteor both at full size if you wanted either to be reasonably visible in their full scope; The camera would either be too close to see the whole meteor or Rayquaza would be too small to see.

Assuming the statement about its diameter refers to it by the diameter in which it is longest, let's treat that face of it as a flat circle.
Pokemon uses metric, as they do in Japan, so "over 6 miles" is probably a localization, because 6 miles converts to 9.656064 kilometers KM; Pokemon often does whole numbers & usually not more than 1 digit after the decimal place. Thus, I think it'd be reasonable the official size is 10 km, contrary to the English localization's vague "over 10 km".
A circle with a 10,000 meter (10 km) diameter would have a surface area of
78,539,816.3 m2 (square meters).

A hemisphere of such a shape (Since we're trying to tell if Rayquaza would be visible in a shot that depicts at least 1 side of the meteor, with both the meteor & Rayquaza at full size.) would have surface areas of:
curved surface area: 157,079,633 m2
base surface area: 78,539,816.3 m2
total surface area: 235,619,449 m2

Meanwhile, Mega Rayquaza is 10.8 meters in size.
I'm not exactly sure what Mega Rayquaza's surface area is, but especially being so thin, it probably wouldn't compare; Compared to even the smallest of the surface areas, Mega Rayquaza's size is around 7.2 million times smaller.

So I would say it's probably true the cutscene did not depict the meteor &/or Rayquaza at accurate sizes.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Chalk it up to game limitations, sure cutscenes take priority over gameplay however we can't expect precise real life metrics (not including pixel scaling) in a franchise where many "towns" are depicted as a handful of small buildings that don't have a second floor.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm inclined to agree with this. It wouldn't be practical to depict Rayquaza & the meteor both at full size if you wanted either to be reasonably visible in their full scope; The camera would either be too close to see the whole meteor or Rayquaza would be too small to see.

Assuming the statement about its diameter refers to it by the diameter in which it is longest, let's treat that face of it as a flat circle.
Pokemon uses metric, as they do in Japan, so "over 6 miles" is probably a localization, because 6 miles converts to 9.656064 kilometers KM; Pokemon often does whole numbers & usually not more than 1 digit after the decimal place. Thus, I think it'd be reasonable the official size is 10 km, contrary to the English localization's vague "over 10 km".
A circle with a 10,000 meter (10 km) diameter would have a surface area of
78,539,816.3 m2 (square meters).

A hemisphere of such a shape (Since we're trying to tell if Rayquaza would be visible in a shot that depicts at least 1 side of the meteor, with both the meteor & Rayquaza at full size.) would have surface areas of:
curved surface area: 157,079,633 m2
base surface area: 78,539,816.3 m2
total surface area: 235,619,449 m2

Meanwhile, Mega Rayquaza is 10.8 meters in size.
I'm not exactly sure what Mega Rayquaza's surface area is, but especially being so thin, it probably wouldn't compare; Compared to even the smallest of the surface areas, Mega Rayquaza's size is around 7.2 million times smaller.

So I would say it's probably true the cutscene did not depict the meteor &/or Rayquaza at accurate sizes.

Artstyle of the game is already pretty inconsistent since it for example treats houses with like 2 storeys just x2 times higher than the MC on the outside, but on inside the proportions are accurate with the storeys being high as actual storeys, so is just another case of "RPG syndrome".

 

[Imaginym]

Chalk it up to game limitations, sure cutscenes take priority over gameplay however we can't expect precise real life metrics (not including pixel scaling) in a franchise where many "towns" are depicted as a handful of small buildings that don't have a second floor.

Were it not evident, yeah, my stance is that so long as doing so means not assuming the cutscene is accurately depicting Mega Rayquaza/the meteor's size, I agree with chalking up the sizes they appear to be in the cutscene as up to game limitations.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Artstyle of the game is already pretty inconsistent since it for example treats houses with like 2 storeys just x2 times higher than the MC on the outside, but on inside the proportions are accurate with the storeys being high as actual storeys, so is just another case of "RPG syndrome".

This and what others said before about RPGs just being dumb “because why not?”

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions so far here?

 

[Bobsican]

Everyone seems to agree, but we're yet to get staff input beyond Cal.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should I call the staff members listed in the Pokemon verse page?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually reading it, Hoopas rating is outdated.

Instead of “High 6-A, Possibly 5-A”, he should become “5-A, Possibly 4-B” since we accept him scaling to mons who are currently 4-B (Tao Trio).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually reading it, Hoopas rating is outdated.

Instead of “High 6-A, Possibly 5-A”, he should become “5-A, Possibly 4-B” since we accept him scaling to mons who are currently 4-B (Tao Trio).

Fixed, also it should be High 5-A, since anything above Mega Mewtwo, who's for sure High 5-A, should be too.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Okay. Should I call the staff members listed in the Pokemon verse page?

You already did tho.

@The_real_cal_howard @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Kirbyelmejor @Inverted_Tempest @Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou) @Magi_Hussie @Starter_Pack @Bobsican @GyroNutz @Nemo212 @Robot972 @Udlmaster @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera

Would you be willing to provide some input here?

@Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin @TheRustyOne

Would you be willing to help out with calculations?

Here

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Gotcha, so High 5-A, Possibly 4-B for Hoopa?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Gotcha, so High 5-A, Possibly 4-B for Hoopa?

Yap

 

[Psychomaster35]

I agree with this

 

[Ionliosite]

Has the calc been accepted on OUR site by OUR calc members? Because it won't be valid until then.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Thats why we are waiting for it to be moved and accepted. Once that happens, I agree with this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Has the calc been accepted on OUR site by OUR calc members? Because it won't be valid until then.

...sigh

(if my calc is accepted, I'll bring it here as a blog in this wiki)

Why ppl don't read it all lol

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Uhh how does a 6 mile meteor planet bust?

 

[Mand21]

Can the characters who are getting upgraded to 5-B and above survive the void of space? 'Cause if so, they could beat my husbando, Gojou Satoru, by blowing up the Earth!

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Uhh how does a 6 mile meteor planet bust?

How do Pokémon move faster than light despite having mass?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Uhh how does a 6 mile meteor planet bust?

How does Ash’s Pikachu shoot lightning bolt after lightning bolt despite likely getting all of his electricity from a single Lightning Bolt, Static Charge and whatever the crap he’s shot with, since a Pikachu doesn’t make its own electricity rather it stores electricity in its pouches?
I’ll tell you how. Fiction Logic. We see the radius of the Meteor, we see what it does. Even if the two don’t add up, can’t argue with results.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Uhh how does a 6 mile meteor planet bust?

It was a supernatural one, since it was literally powered from the nucleus of a psychic virus, plus fiction logic as said before

 

[Robot972]

I love when people forget we're working with fictional universes lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

I think it's better to just make the blog now, have it evaluated and then discuss if it can be used or not.