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A bunch of Big Boi Feats for Dr. Doom.

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Lobo treatment would be just saying that he's so inconsistent that nobody should scale to him, which is something we currently do for Lobo. But as I understand it Doom's power level is relatively stable, it just varies between the various things he can do.
not really. His magic is usually depicted as solar system to multiverse level (although sure, you can give it a pass for the same reason as strange magic) and his stats from thing level to herald tier. His absorption varies from having to trick the silver surfer to absorbing beyonder's power in a direct fight. It's really not about having different means.
 
We could put base Dr Doom as :

High 6-C, up to 2-A, possibly Low 1-C with Magic, Technology/Preparation, and Absorption.

For his base 2-A AP: we could say:

Up to Multiverse+ level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse Level with Magic (His magic power should be comparable, if not slightly superior to the likes of Doctor Strange (especially as he knows spells that Strange himself doesn't and is consistently considered a top candidate for Sorcerer Supreme), with Strange himself fearing Doom's potential as a sorcerer. Scarlet Witch stated that his magic was more powerful than both her's and Doctor Strange's, and Wanda had ⅓ of the power required to match an entity known as Chaos, who was described as being comparable to Eternity, and Nightmare. Channeled the power of Order to match the power of Scarlet Witch’s Chaos. Alongside Doctor Strange, used his magic to fight and damage a Hell-amped Mephisto), technology/preparation (Held his own against 4 Mad Celestials for 28 minutes, and while he was overwhelmed he still managed to survive the battle. Staggered Uatu with a single energy blast even though the Cosmic Cube was taken from him by Uatu at the time. While being charged with all of Wakanda's Vibranium, stated it to be above the power of the Cosmic Cube) and absorption (Has absorbed the powers of Nightmare, Galactus, a Watcher, a young Franklin Richards and Hyperstorm).


For durability:
Up to Multiverse+ level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse Level with Magic (Easily blocked attacks from Morgan le Fay [who is superior to Doctor Strange and Doom himself], and even when they pierced his shield they were so weakened from the shield that he was barely scathed. Should be comparable if not somewhat superior to Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch) and Technology/Preparation (Took concentrated attacks from 4 Mad Celestials for 28 minutes, who are equal to the normal Celestials, who on their own could effortlessly inflict severe damage to an Amped Destroyer Armor and together were able to casually melt the Armor into slag. Effortlessly tanks a blast from Uatu thanks to his armor's alloys. Tanked a blow from an angered and well-fed Galactus. Should scale above his attack power and be at least as high as his absorption)
 
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No.
Up to Multiverse+ level with Magic (His magic power should be comparable, if not slightly superior to the likes of Doctor Strange.
No reason for this and Strange isn't just Multiverse level+ with magic.
Has fought and held his own against Morgan le Fay, whose magic is above Doctor Strange's, albeit he admitted that her magic was also above his.
No evidence nor sources, go make a CRT for Morgan le Fay first.
Not and Strange hers or Strange's, and they're High 6-C anyway. Also no sources.
Given the nonsensical nature of magic, the 3 acting as 1 may not simply sum together their power but have the result be greater than the sum of its parts. Simply makiing their power greater in a non-proportional way. There's no reason to scale Doom to her at her peak anyway rather than what she shows most of the time.
Again the way you put it it's the same tier he already has, the the second scan shows that this creates some weird hax by their part.
Doctor Strange fears Doom's potential as a sorceror.
This doesn't matter.
Weird feat given that Mephy was playing along his defeat. He's also pretty pathetic in Hell when just attacked, he gets affected by everything and then uses his powers to overpower things up
(Held his own against 4 Mad Celestials for 28 minutes, and while he was overwhelmed he still managed to survive the battle)
and Technology/Preparation (Took concentrated attacks from 4 Mad Celestials for 28 minutes, who are equal to the normal Celestials
No evidence nor sources, also Celestials are insanely inconsistent.
Up to Multiverse+ level, possibly higher with Magic (Easily blocked attacks from Morgan le Fay, and even when they pierced his shield they were so weakened from the shield that he was barely scathed.
No evidence nor sources, Morgan le Fay lacks a profile for this to even mean something.
Should be comparable, if not superior to Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch)
No evidence.
The link doesn't work for me.

@The other staff here Is there anything to take from this thread?
 
The thing about Wanda saying Doom's magic is greater than hers or Strange's is that it's her internal monologue and Doom does consider her to be more powerful than him - Avengers World #16
This was the inversion spell iirc. Red Onslaught isn't treated as a 2-A character so they likely wouldn't be operating at that level and this spell mostly affected people's morality right?
 
The thing about Wanda saying Doom's magic is greater than hers or Strange's is that it's her internal monologue and Doom does consider her to be more powerful than him - Avengers World #16

This was the inversion spell iirc. Red Onslaught isn't treated as a 2-A character so they likely wouldn't be operating at that level and this spell mostly affected people's morality right?
Not sure what Witch's statement being internal monologue has to do with anything, but the second point is valid (if Doom, the narcissist supreme, complements you, you're power is FOR REAL).

I honestly know probably less than you about that 2nd part. I may have misread it.

Still, while Dr Doom is probably <= Scarlet Witch, he still seems to at least be comparable.
 
Maybe we could just have Dr Doom's durability go up to 2-A with technology/prep, since he tanked hits from Celestials and Uatu.
 
About that "tanking a blast from Uatu" feat, while it is true that Doom had the Cosmic Cube at this time, he stated that it was his armor, not the CC, that let him tank the blast.
 
Also @Eficiente :

Here is Doom Tanking Uatu's blast, and even though he does have the Cosmic Cube, he states that he tanked it due to his armor and preparing for Uatu and not due to the CC, making it a prep time durability feat:



Also, Doom's forcefield (with prep time, but I don't think he used magic since it seemed to be a device of his) tanked attacks from a pissed off and Hell-amped Mephisto. Even if Mephisto wasn't taking them 100% seriously, it's clear that he was pretty pissed off by this point.


Also, Classic Doom with prep-time after betraying Kang the Conqueror overpowered Magus who had the Infinity Gauntlet (likely an outlier but worth mentioning):



Also, his suit has an electric field as a defense that one-shot Strange:


Also, with that creepy as **** skin armor Doom made for himself, he overpowered Strange with an army of demons and took control of his mind:


Not sure if this is a real durability feat, but with preparation Doom made an Actuality Shield to keep Nightmare out of Latveria:
 
Here is Doom Tanking Uatu's blast, and even though he does have the Cosmic Cube, he states that he tanked it due to his armor and preparing for Uatu and not due to the CC, making it a prep time durability feat:

That's too small, I can't read it. Please replace the links in that same comment, I will later come back to this thread and see the rest.
 
That's too small, I can't read it. Please replace the links in that same comment, I will later come back to this thread and see the rest.
Too small? Really?

Sigh

Ok, here. Sorry about the unfinished description for the bottom image, imgur decided to be a bitch halfway through when I was writing it.

Basically, not only was the Cosmic Cube temporarily knocked away when he was blasted by Uatu, but he himself credits his durability and tanking of the beam to his armor's alloys and heavily implied prep. If it were due to the cosmic cube's power, he'd have stated it/gloated about it.
 
It's vague. On one part, the cosmic alloy could be good against this "cosmic" stuff Marvel has that nobody else has, for another part, Oatu is extremely reluctant to act like this, why would his attack be at his full power to deal with someone of lesser power rather than just use what's needed to deal with Doom?
 
His cosmic alloy is just described as "nigh-impenetrable", implying it focuses more on raw durability than on anti-cosmic hax.

And I have no idea what you're talking about in his second point, since there was nothing implying that Uatu was holding back.
 
Nigh-impenetrable is just a reinforcement that it will do its job. Uatu then gets pushed back by a blast from the same Doom that needed to prepare himself to take an attack from Uatu, it's as clear as water that he wasn't going all out.
 
Nigh-impenetrable is just a reinforcement that it will do its job. Uatu then gets pushed back by a blast from the same Doom that needed to prepare himself to take an attack from Uatu, it's as clear as water that he wasn't going all out.
The end of the picture seems to show that Doom intended on banishing Uatu to get him out of the way (not to mention when he did so he was holding the Cube in his hand IIRC).
 
Different writers cannot keep the power levels of other writers straight though. If Doom was truly stronger than a full power cosmic cube, he could have snapped his fingers and there would be no universe or Black Panther or any other enemies to fight him.
 
Different writers cannot keep the power levels of other writers straight though. If Doom was truly stronger than a full power cosmic cube, he could have snapped his fingers and there would be no universe or Black Panther or any other enemies to fight him.
I don't know about that.

As for the Celestials feat, IMO it should at least scale to durability considering these guys were portrayed as a Galactus level threat and were confirmed to be equal to the normal Celestials.

Doom tanked concentrated blast from 4 of these guys from 28 minutes, while the amped Destroyer Armor was severely damaged by causal blasts from Celestials before being one-shot by a concentrated blast from 8 of them.

And he's been consistently shown to be comparable in magic to Doctor Strange. Some things show him barely above, others show him as equal, and others show him barely below.

Combine that with Scarlet Witch's statement, and with at least magic he should be a "possible" 2-A with magic.


Also, I've looked over him fighting Uatu, and not only does he tank an attack from him even without the Cosmic Cube in his grip as a result of his armor's alloys (as he says himself), but he managed to stagger Uatu with a blast that knocked the Cube out of Uatu's grip, showing that with his preparation/technology that he can not only tank a blast from Uatu (who is a 2-A) but also stagger him with a blast. He's likely not Uatu level in this scene without the Cube, but his prep in this scene shouldn't be too far below.
 
This thread is a ******* mess...

@Eseseso can you not post 3 new topics of debates after every post made to address one prior point?

I genuinely cannot tell what the hell I am supposed to input on, this is terrible CRT practice.
 
Also @Eficiente :

Here is Doom Tanking Uatu's blast, and even though he does have the Cosmic Cube, he states that he tanked it due to his armor and preparing for Uatu and not due to the CC, making it a prep time durability feat:

Where does it say preparing?
Also, Doom's forcefield (with prep time, but I don't think he used magic since it seemed to be a device of his) tanked attacks from a pissed off and Hell-amped Mephisto. Even if Mephisto wasn't taking them 100% seriously, it's clear that he was pretty pissed off by this point.
Again, where does it say prep?
It's an outlier, and because it's an outlier it's not worth mentioning
Also, his suit has an electric field as a defense that one-shot Strange:

Strange is 9-C in durability
Also, with that creepy as **** skin armor Doom made for himself, he overpowered Strange with an army of demons and took control of his mind:

Strange is High 6-C to 4-B, save for hyperspecific scenarios.
Not sure if this is a real durability feat, but with preparation Doom made an Actuality Shield to keep Nightmare out of Latveria:

It's not.
Uh guys, I just looked at this and realized that Doom said that his amp from the Vibranium from Wakanda put him above not just the Power Cosmic but also the Cosmic Cube.


He says that even though he's had both the Power Cosmic AND the Cosmic Cube in his hand at separate times, neither of them compare to the Vibranium amp he was getting at that moment.

Vibranium Doom > Cosmic Cube.
At-the-moment hyperbole and/or context deficient.


Honestly I'm just gonna ******* say it, I'm for a note to be put on characters like Scarlet Witch because she deadass, doesn't reach a fraction close to 2-A for any practical purposes, but users keep acting like she does and attempt to scale off of her.

There are comics where she couldn't lift a rock with magic, she's variable as shit and a terrible narrator for her own capabilities, considering the bajillion times they show "she's stronger than what she thought she was" and has Sentry-esque mechanics.
 
Where does it say preparing?

Again, where does it say prep?

It's an outlier, and because it's an outlier it's not worth mentioning

Strange is 9-C in durability

Strange is High 6-C to 4-B, save for hyperspecific scenarios.

It's not.

At-the-moment hyperbole and/or context deficient.


Honestly I'm just gonna ******* say it, I'm for a note to be put on characters like Scarlet Witch because she deadass, doesn't reach a fraction close to 2-A for any practical purposes, but users keep acting like she does and attempt to scale off of her.

There are comics where she couldn't lift a rock with magic, she's variable as shit and a terrible narrator for her own capabilities, considering the bajillion times they show "she's stronger than what she thought she was" and has Sentry-esque mechanics.
Well, I meant that it was either preparation or technology (since not only did he credit his durability against Uatu to his armor's alloys and not to the Cube's power, but he is already said on VS wiki to be much higher than normal with technology, such as how he used the Adimantium Chainsaw to perform surgery on Hulk [which the wiki itself puts at 4-B]).

I agree with the rest of what you said though, especially the Scarlet Witch stuff because her power level is confusing as f*ck.
 
Also, even if Dr Doom's magic isn't a 2-A, should we still say that it goes up to a 4-B like he already does with technology, Doombots, and preparation?

It's constantly shown to be comparable (and in some cases barely superior) to Strange, who can usually go up to 4-B
 
Just a note that it helps to actually read all of the stories that you are quoting. The Magus had the Infinity Gauntlet at the time that Doom and Kang overpowered him, yes, but The Living Tribunal had ruled that the Infinity Gems had no power when used together at the time. The LT reversed his ruling shortly afterwards though, after which Magus got rid of Doom (who had already killed Kang, if I remember correctly).
 
Just a note that it helps to actually read all of the stories that you are quoting. The Magus had the Infinity Gauntlet at the time that Doom and Kang overpowered him, yes, but The Living Tribunal had ruled that the Infinity Gems had no power when used together at the time. The LT reversed his ruling shortly afterwards though, after which Magus got rid of Doom (who had already killed Kang, if I remember correctly).
Really? Wow, didn't know that.

My most sincere apologies.
 
I also apologize for how messy I made this CRT, I just saw that Iron Man and Reed had multiverse-level stuff and thought that Doom (who rivals both of them) was likely comparable.

On a related note, going back to what Impress said about Reed being smarter than Doom, on a personal note I kind of hate that Marvel has done this for decades. Yes Reed is a genius and an excellent rival for Doom, but we've seen Doom do so many amazing feats, most of which rival if not even surpass Reed (albeit this could be only because of his ambition making him more focused on these things since he has no real social life unlike Reed).

I personally view Doom as >= Reed in intelligence, but unfortunately I'm not a Marvel Executive. Speaking of, if they ruin MCU Doom I'll riot.

If it were a math equation: Doom's intelligence level minus Doom's ego level = Reed's Intelligence level.
 
One last thing: While @Eficiente is right that the power level for the Mad Celestials (whom Doom tanked concentrated blasts from 4 of for 28 minutes) can be wonky like they are for the normal Celestials, the thing is that in the story they are portrayed as Galactus-level threats (since even though Galactus killed one, they aren't too far below him), and one of the main reasons a well-fed Galactus is a 2-A is because he killed one of them, so it wouldn't make sense to say that they were a 2-A then but mysteriously downgraded when Doom fought them.

Honestly, having Doom's durability and only his durability be a possible (not likely) 2-A with technology/prep is a much likelier and safer bet than for his AP, especially with that Celestials feat (which is much better than the durability for that amped Destroyer Armor, because even though Doom faced fewer Celestials he lasted way longer), and possibly that Uatu feat since he is clearly shown to not have the Cosmic Cube in his possession when he tanked that blast.
 
What Impress has accepted is probably fine to apply.
 
If it turns out that base Doom is up to 4-B with magic then great, but there is no evidence for that that can be used here.
 
If it turns out that base Doom is up to 4-B with magic then great, but there is no evidence for that that can be used here.
Yeah since the consensus is that magic will not make Doom a 2-A, then it seems like Doom's magic should be a 4-B since he's consistently shown to have magic comparable to Dr Strange.
 
You're not saying anything new. Strange isn't even 4-B in his profile, and even if he were to vary between High 6-C and 4-B Doom being comparable only means he scales to the former.
 
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