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A Kefla and Vegito weakness addition
- Thread starter MrLuk2000
- Start date
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- dragon ball kefla vegito
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I don't see how that's a weakness per say since Goku had to well overpower Kefla for that to happen along with an extended Ki Blast while both Vegito and Fusion Zamasu never expressed worry of their Potara Earrings breaking despite the fact that if it was a weakness, it would've been the first thing that Gowasu would've told Goku and Vegeta to focus on.
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It's a weakness. Caulifa and Kale were injured, yes but it's quite clear they were nowhere near dead. If an attack that has no intent to kill can break the potaras, and thus defuse the victim, then it's clearly a weakness of the potaras.Akreious said:
Say we put Vegito against Gogeta. Gogeta probably wouldn't be able to kill with a single attack but it's plausible for Gogeta to, say, use God Bind and then Super Kamehameha, not killing Vegito but overwhelming him briefly and destroying the potara ear rings.
Vegito has NEVER had reason to be concerned over the Potaras breaking, considering he has always had a considerable advantage. The only questionable one would be Merged Zamasu's potaras not breaking from Final Kamehameha but that could be argued to be Zamasu's immortality enabling him to prevent them from being destroyed (after all, durability in DB relies on the user's concentration on Ki.)
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It may be that nobody knew that destroying the earrings would immediately cancel the fusion.
So this seems like a fine weakness to add.
So this seems like a fine weakness to add.
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"It may be that nobody knew that destroying the earrings would immediately cancel the fusion."
That seems like a pretty bad reason when the Supreme Kais wear them on a Daily Basis and is extremely knowledgeable on the subject; with the Kais not knowing that Mortals fusing with it has a time limit as opposed to Kais since no mortals previously used it to fuse.
If simply destroying them would undo the fusion, Gowasu and the other Kais would've noted it. "You're having trouble with a Zamasu kicking your ass, try to go for the Earrings!" but instead they rather had them fuse into Vegito themselves.
"If an attack that has no intent to kill can break the potaras, and thus defuse the victim, then it's clearly a weakness of the potaras."
... Huh? An attack that was clearly overpowering them and was quote "Goku's final move" was enough to break the Potara. It not being a fatal move means nothing when the rules of the tournament explicitly says no killing moves, which fatal moves would be classified under seeing as they're... fatal.
"Say we put Vegito against Gogeta. Gogeta probably wouldn't be able to kill with a single attack but it's plausible for Gogeta to, say, use God Bind and then Super Kamehameha, not killing Vegito but overwhelming him briefly and destroying the potara ear rings."
See this would work if it wasn't for the fact that the only scenario of the Potaras breaking was when the Potara Fusion was being completely overpowered by someone rather than someone weaker exploiting the Earrings to get the fusion to defuse.
"Vegito has NEVER had reason to be concerned over the Potaras breaking, considering he has always had a considerable advantage."
Fusion Zamasu, while being weaker, was still able to contend with Vegito and yet never even considered going after the Potaras despite Vegito clearly having the upper hand. And he's supposedly a Prodigy Kai learning under the Supreme Kai, he would've had a basic crash course on Potaras as any other Supreme Kai had. We even see Gowasu explaining the Potaras to him.
"The only questionable one would be Merged Zamasu's potaras not breaking from Final Kamehameha but that could be argued to be Zamasu's immortality enabling him to prevent them from being destroyed (after all, durability in DB relies on the user's concentration on Ki.)"
Zamasu's Immortality has... nothing to do with his Ki? It makes him almost impossible to kill yes, but besides maybe Infinite Stamina (Which the androids have) it shouldn't affect how much Ki he has at any moment in time. Plus Final Kamehameha was dominating him and was clearly the superior attack used against him and yet it didn't break despite Fusion Zamasu, the whole time, being overpowered.
Again the only scenario of Potara Earrings being broken was when the Fusion was caught off guard, already in mid-attack and had invested their energy into said attack, just did expended a crap ton of energy using a quote "Fight or Flight Response Attack" that possessed enough energy to defeat 2nd UIO Goku, after taking a beating from Goku.
Despite what I'm saying, I'm agreeing that it would be a weakness. Hence the "per say" in my first post. It's just not a... large one seeing as the only time we have of Potaras Breaking was when the Fusion had expended an extreme amount of energy against an Auto-Dodge Hacker and was caught completely off-guard after the Auto-Dodge Hacker did a grind on their final, strongest attack.
That seems like a pretty bad reason when the Supreme Kais wear them on a Daily Basis and is extremely knowledgeable on the subject; with the Kais not knowing that Mortals fusing with it has a time limit as opposed to Kais since no mortals previously used it to fuse.
If simply destroying them would undo the fusion, Gowasu and the other Kais would've noted it. "You're having trouble with a Zamasu kicking your ass, try to go for the Earrings!" but instead they rather had them fuse into Vegito themselves.
"If an attack that has no intent to kill can break the potaras, and thus defuse the victim, then it's clearly a weakness of the potaras."
... Huh? An attack that was clearly overpowering them and was quote "Goku's final move" was enough to break the Potara. It not being a fatal move means nothing when the rules of the tournament explicitly says no killing moves, which fatal moves would be classified under seeing as they're... fatal.
"Say we put Vegito against Gogeta. Gogeta probably wouldn't be able to kill with a single attack but it's plausible for Gogeta to, say, use God Bind and then Super Kamehameha, not killing Vegito but overwhelming him briefly and destroying the potara ear rings."
See this would work if it wasn't for the fact that the only scenario of the Potaras breaking was when the Potara Fusion was being completely overpowered by someone rather than someone weaker exploiting the Earrings to get the fusion to defuse.
"Vegito has NEVER had reason to be concerned over the Potaras breaking, considering he has always had a considerable advantage."
Fusion Zamasu, while being weaker, was still able to contend with Vegito and yet never even considered going after the Potaras despite Vegito clearly having the upper hand. And he's supposedly a Prodigy Kai learning under the Supreme Kai, he would've had a basic crash course on Potaras as any other Supreme Kai had. We even see Gowasu explaining the Potaras to him.
"The only questionable one would be Merged Zamasu's potaras not breaking from Final Kamehameha but that could be argued to be Zamasu's immortality enabling him to prevent them from being destroyed (after all, durability in DB relies on the user's concentration on Ki.)"
Zamasu's Immortality has... nothing to do with his Ki? It makes him almost impossible to kill yes, but besides maybe Infinite Stamina (Which the androids have) it shouldn't affect how much Ki he has at any moment in time. Plus Final Kamehameha was dominating him and was clearly the superior attack used against him and yet it didn't break despite Fusion Zamasu, the whole time, being overpowered.
Again the only scenario of Potara Earrings being broken was when the Fusion was caught off guard, already in mid-attack and had invested their energy into said attack, just did expended a crap ton of energy using a quote "Fight or Flight Response Attack" that possessed enough energy to defeat 2nd UIO Goku, after taking a beating from Goku.
Despite what I'm saying, I'm agreeing that it would be a weakness. Hence the "per say" in my first post. It's just not a... large one seeing as the only time we have of Potaras Breaking was when the Fusion had expended an extreme amount of energy against an Auto-Dodge Hacker and was caught completely off-guard after the Auto-Dodge Hacker did a grind on their final, strongest attack.
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".. Huh? An attack that was clearly overpowering them and was quote "Goku's final move" was enough to break the Potara. It not being a fatal move means nothing when the rules of the tournament explicitly says no killing moves, which fatal moves would be classified under seeing as they're... fatal"
What are you even talking about? A fatal attack will always prove more powerful than a non-fatal attack. I'm stating that if a non-lethal attack can destroy the potaras then it is plausible for someone that scales to around Vegito's level to bust the potaras with an attack.
"See this would work if it wasn't for the fact that the only scenario of the Potaras breaking was when the Potara Fusion was being completely overpowered by someone rather than someone weaker exploiting the Earrings to get the fusion to defuse."
Gogeta and Vegito are officially equivalent, so I'm not making an argument of someone weaker exploiting the potaras but someone equivalent. And, as I already stated, the attack that destroyed the potaras was not fatal ergo the potaras can be destroyed by non-lethal attacks of sufficient force.
"Fusion Zamasu, while being weaker, was still able to contend with Vegito and yet never even considered going after the Potaras despite Vegito clearly having the upper hand. And he's supposedly a Prodigy Kai learning under the Supreme Kai, he would've had a basic crash course on Potaras as any other Supreme Kai had. We even see Gowasu explaining the Potaras to him."
Fusion Zamasu was immortal. That's the only real reason he could contend with Vegito for longer than a few hits. I also don't see why your argument makes any sense, regarding him being a prodigy Kai, when Elder Kai had clear ignorance of the Potara's actual mechanics with mortals and the simple fact that mortals using potaras is something we have no evidence of occurring outside of Vegito and Kefla.
"Zamasu's Immortality has... nothing to do with his Ki? It makes him almost impossible to kill yes, but besides maybe Infinite Stamina (Which the androids have) it shouldn't affect how much Ki he has at any moment in time. Plus Final Kamehameha was dominating him and was clearly the superior attack used against him and yet it didn't break despite Fusion Zamasu, the whole time, being overpowered."
Yeah, that's my exact argument. Zamasu has infinite stamina due to his immortality, so his Ki doesn't decrease with the wounds he has or how he expends his Ki. This means that Zamasu's durability is, obviously, limitless.
I extend the concept of 'durability' to the clothing of the characters. After all, weaker characters rarely ever damage the clothing of someone stronger but someone stronger will always tear apart what a weaker (or equivalent) opponent is wearing. So, I am essentially claiming that Zamasu's potaras didn't break due to his own Ki managing to protect them.
What are you even talking about? A fatal attack will always prove more powerful than a non-fatal attack. I'm stating that if a non-lethal attack can destroy the potaras then it is plausible for someone that scales to around Vegito's level to bust the potaras with an attack.
"See this would work if it wasn't for the fact that the only scenario of the Potaras breaking was when the Potara Fusion was being completely overpowered by someone rather than someone weaker exploiting the Earrings to get the fusion to defuse."
Gogeta and Vegito are officially equivalent, so I'm not making an argument of someone weaker exploiting the potaras but someone equivalent. And, as I already stated, the attack that destroyed the potaras was not fatal ergo the potaras can be destroyed by non-lethal attacks of sufficient force.
"Fusion Zamasu, while being weaker, was still able to contend with Vegito and yet never even considered going after the Potaras despite Vegito clearly having the upper hand. And he's supposedly a Prodigy Kai learning under the Supreme Kai, he would've had a basic crash course on Potaras as any other Supreme Kai had. We even see Gowasu explaining the Potaras to him."
Fusion Zamasu was immortal. That's the only real reason he could contend with Vegito for longer than a few hits. I also don't see why your argument makes any sense, regarding him being a prodigy Kai, when Elder Kai had clear ignorance of the Potara's actual mechanics with mortals and the simple fact that mortals using potaras is something we have no evidence of occurring outside of Vegito and Kefla.
"Zamasu's Immortality has... nothing to do with his Ki? It makes him almost impossible to kill yes, but besides maybe Infinite Stamina (Which the androids have) it shouldn't affect how much Ki he has at any moment in time. Plus Final Kamehameha was dominating him and was clearly the superior attack used against him and yet it didn't break despite Fusion Zamasu, the whole time, being overpowered."
Yeah, that's my exact argument. Zamasu has infinite stamina due to his immortality, so his Ki doesn't decrease with the wounds he has or how he expends his Ki. This means that Zamasu's durability is, obviously, limitless.
I extend the concept of 'durability' to the clothing of the characters. After all, weaker characters rarely ever damage the clothing of someone stronger but someone stronger will always tear apart what a weaker (or equivalent) opponent is wearing. So, I am essentially claiming that Zamasu's potaras didn't break due to his own Ki managing to protect them.
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"What are you even talking about? A fatal attack will always prove more powerful than a non-fatal attack. I'm stating that if a non-lethal attack can destroy the potaras then it is plausible for someone that scales to around Vegito's level to bust the potaras with an attack."
An attack that overpowers you doesn't need to be fatal. Since Kefla was overwhelmed, as you said, that means that Goku's AP overpowered the Ki Defense of Kefla which would include leaving the Potara Earrings vulnerable. All that means is that Kefla's natural Dura > Potara Dura. Both doesn't matter if her Ki is up and protects everything in general.
Also, what? So because someone is more powerful than you and can therefore overpower you, it's a weakness of the item?
Because I use a sword and someone stronger can take the sword from me, the sword's weakness is that it can be taken? That's legitimately what you're saying.
"Gogeta and Vegito are officially equivalent, so I'm not making an argument of someone weaker exploiting the potaras but someone equivalent. And, as I already stated, the attack that destroyed the potaras was not fatal ergo the potaras can be destroyed by non-lethal attacks of sufficient force."
Firstly, where was it ever said that they're officially equivalent? As far as canon is concerned, everything about Potara in Z still stands besides the time limit retcon which the Supreme Kais wouldn't have known about since that's likely their first instance of Mortals fusing.
But Goku wasn't an equivalent. Kefla shot a Ki Blast with all her might after using a large amount of energy, Goku bypassed that and blasted her while she's invested her Ki elsewhere. At that moment in time, they weren't equals. At all. And Vegito vs Fusion Zamasu just hurts this argument further since Vegito was basically dominating Zamasu at moments in time and yet nothing came of the Potara.
That is honestly pretty terrible reasoning when a massive plot point in that Arc is how resilient and powerful Saiyans are. That's more of a resilience/durability feat for Kefla, not a "real" weakness of the Potara. You pointing out how it's non-lethal or fatal over and over isn't going to stop the fact that just because it wasn't fatal, it doesn't suddenly make the fact that she was being overpowered and overwhelmed at that time disappear. It took her both her using a massive amount of Ki, being caught off-guard, and blasted by someone who was clearly stated to be getting stronger at every moment for the Potaras to break.
I also never disagreed that an attack of sufficient force can break the Potara. However you asserting that it being non-fatal, anything fatal would break it. Even though at that point, an attack that's fatal enough to break the Potara would... y'know... be fatal to the fusion anyways? My weakness is that I can take damage.
"Fusion Zamasu was immortal."
Half Immortal.
"That's the only real reason he could contend with Vegito for longer than a few hits."
Fusion Zamasu was overwhelmed but he was still able to contend. Vegito didn't curbstomp him into oblivion ala Jiren vs Z Fighters. If Zamasu was that much weaker, all the more reason to go for the Potara.
"I also don't see why your argument makes any sense, regarding him being a prodigy Kai, when Elder Kai had clear ignorance of the Potara's actual mechanics with mortals and the simple fact that mortals using potaras is something we have no evidence of occurring outside of Vegito and Kefla."
...? Now I don't get your argument. Elder Kai had ignorance over Potara's mechanics with Mortals because no mortals fused at that point prior, hell Mortals were looked down upon until Goku and Co came along. Why wouldn't he be ignorant about something that had literally never happened prior? The fact that he was ignorant about this one thing that never occured before and was never brought up... ever in the past doesn't change the fact that if the Potaras were destroyed, Elder Kai and the others should've known about it seeing as that'd be one of the only weaknesses of Fusion besides the Time Limit (Or lackthereof).
Also if destroying the Potara would undo the fusion, why didn't they do that for Kibito Kai? It's not like they couldn't get another set since it's an item from the occupation. They had to go out of their way and get a Wish Dragon to undo the fusion.
"Yeah, that's my exact argument. Zamasu has infinite stamina due to his immortality, so his Ki doesn't decrease with the wounds he has or how he expends his Ki. This means that Zamasu's durability is, obviously, limitless."
First of all, NLF. Just because he has infinite storage doesn't mean he can field all that energy at once.
Second of all, he was only half-immortal and obviously got more distorted and weaker as he went on (With the purply bits getting more violently sloshy near the end).
Example would be, just because I have over a billion bullets in storage doesn't mean I can fire off that many bullets at once from my 9mm Pistol. Like any other fighter or gunner, I'd still be limited by my firerates until I get a better gun (Or in Zamasu's case, train) to achieve more firepower and firerates. Vegito simply overpowered my 9mm Pistol with a gatling gun with only 800 bullets. Sure I have higher storage and more bullets but that doesn't change the fact that I'm completely out of my league here and that he has more firepower at the moment.
"I extend the concept of 'durability' to the clothing of the characters. After all, weaker characters rarely ever damage the clothing of someone stronger but someone stronger will always tear apart what a weaker (or equivalent) opponent is wearing. So, I am essentially claiming that Zamasu's potaras didn't break due to his own Ki managing to protect them."
If I recall correctly, Kefla's clothes weren't wrecked either. So are you asserting that Kefla's Clothes > Potara Earrings in durability? I mean, I agree that a DB's character's durability would extend to clothing (Or else everyone would be naked in every battle ever), but it's not a constant across all battles.
An attack that overpowers you doesn't need to be fatal. Since Kefla was overwhelmed, as you said, that means that Goku's AP overpowered the Ki Defense of Kefla which would include leaving the Potara Earrings vulnerable. All that means is that Kefla's natural Dura > Potara Dura. Both doesn't matter if her Ki is up and protects everything in general.
Also, what? So because someone is more powerful than you and can therefore overpower you, it's a weakness of the item?
Because I use a sword and someone stronger can take the sword from me, the sword's weakness is that it can be taken? That's legitimately what you're saying.
"Gogeta and Vegito are officially equivalent, so I'm not making an argument of someone weaker exploiting the potaras but someone equivalent. And, as I already stated, the attack that destroyed the potaras was not fatal ergo the potaras can be destroyed by non-lethal attacks of sufficient force."
Firstly, where was it ever said that they're officially equivalent? As far as canon is concerned, everything about Potara in Z still stands besides the time limit retcon which the Supreme Kais wouldn't have known about since that's likely their first instance of Mortals fusing.
But Goku wasn't an equivalent. Kefla shot a Ki Blast with all her might after using a large amount of energy, Goku bypassed that and blasted her while she's invested her Ki elsewhere. At that moment in time, they weren't equals. At all. And Vegito vs Fusion Zamasu just hurts this argument further since Vegito was basically dominating Zamasu at moments in time and yet nothing came of the Potara.
That is honestly pretty terrible reasoning when a massive plot point in that Arc is how resilient and powerful Saiyans are. That's more of a resilience/durability feat for Kefla, not a "real" weakness of the Potara. You pointing out how it's non-lethal or fatal over and over isn't going to stop the fact that just because it wasn't fatal, it doesn't suddenly make the fact that she was being overpowered and overwhelmed at that time disappear. It took her both her using a massive amount of Ki, being caught off-guard, and blasted by someone who was clearly stated to be getting stronger at every moment for the Potaras to break.
I also never disagreed that an attack of sufficient force can break the Potara. However you asserting that it being non-fatal, anything fatal would break it. Even though at that point, an attack that's fatal enough to break the Potara would... y'know... be fatal to the fusion anyways? My weakness is that I can take damage.
"Fusion Zamasu was immortal."
Half Immortal.
"That's the only real reason he could contend with Vegito for longer than a few hits."
Fusion Zamasu was overwhelmed but he was still able to contend. Vegito didn't curbstomp him into oblivion ala Jiren vs Z Fighters. If Zamasu was that much weaker, all the more reason to go for the Potara.
"I also don't see why your argument makes any sense, regarding him being a prodigy Kai, when Elder Kai had clear ignorance of the Potara's actual mechanics with mortals and the simple fact that mortals using potaras is something we have no evidence of occurring outside of Vegito and Kefla."
...? Now I don't get your argument. Elder Kai had ignorance over Potara's mechanics with Mortals because no mortals fused at that point prior, hell Mortals were looked down upon until Goku and Co came along. Why wouldn't he be ignorant about something that had literally never happened prior? The fact that he was ignorant about this one thing that never occured before and was never brought up... ever in the past doesn't change the fact that if the Potaras were destroyed, Elder Kai and the others should've known about it seeing as that'd be one of the only weaknesses of Fusion besides the Time Limit (Or lackthereof).
Also if destroying the Potara would undo the fusion, why didn't they do that for Kibito Kai? It's not like they couldn't get another set since it's an item from the occupation. They had to go out of their way and get a Wish Dragon to undo the fusion.
"Yeah, that's my exact argument. Zamasu has infinite stamina due to his immortality, so his Ki doesn't decrease with the wounds he has or how he expends his Ki. This means that Zamasu's durability is, obviously, limitless."
First of all, NLF. Just because he has infinite storage doesn't mean he can field all that energy at once.
Second of all, he was only half-immortal and obviously got more distorted and weaker as he went on (With the purply bits getting more violently sloshy near the end).
Example would be, just because I have over a billion bullets in storage doesn't mean I can fire off that many bullets at once from my 9mm Pistol. Like any other fighter or gunner, I'd still be limited by my firerates until I get a better gun (Or in Zamasu's case, train) to achieve more firepower and firerates. Vegito simply overpowered my 9mm Pistol with a gatling gun with only 800 bullets. Sure I have higher storage and more bullets but that doesn't change the fact that I'm completely out of my league here and that he has more firepower at the moment.
"I extend the concept of 'durability' to the clothing of the characters. After all, weaker characters rarely ever damage the clothing of someone stronger but someone stronger will always tear apart what a weaker (or equivalent) opponent is wearing. So, I am essentially claiming that Zamasu's potaras didn't break due to his own Ki managing to protect them."
If I recall correctly, Kefla's clothes weren't wrecked either. So are you asserting that Kefla's Clothes > Potara Earrings in durability? I mean, I agree that a DB's character's durability would extend to clothing (Or else everyone would be naked in every battle ever), but it's not a constant across all battles.
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An attack that overpowers you doesn't need to be fatal. Since Kefla was overwhelmed, as you said, that means that Goku's AP overpowered the Ki Defense of Kefla which would include leaving the Potara Earrings vulnerable. All that means is that Kefla's natural Dura > Potara Dura. Both doesn't matter if her Ki is up and protects everything in general.
Cool. You are still missing the point though. Goku's power was suppressed to the extent that it wouldn't KILL Kefla. Meaning that level of power is achievable by anyone comparable to Kefla. I'm basically saying that Kefla is evidence of people akin to a Potara fusion being capable of destroying their ear rings.
Because I use a sword and someone stronger can take the sword from me, the sword's weakness is that it can be taken? That's legitimately what you're saying.
No but if someone can snap your sword in half, thus lowering your power by dozens of times...yes. That's a pretty huge weakness. Again, if this were Gogeta vs Vegito it would result in Vegito defusing from his potaras breaking and Gogeta instantly winning.
Firstly, where was it ever said that they're officially equivalent? As far as canon is concerned, everything about Potara in Z still stands besides the time limit retcon which the Supreme Kais wouldn't have known about since that's likely their first instance of Mortals fusing.
Literally stated with the release of the DBS Broly movie. If you don't think that's good enough, take it up with the entire wiki for accepting it.
That is honestly pretty terrible reasoning when a massive plot point in that Arc is how resilient and powerful Saiyans are. That's more of a resilience/durability feat for Kefla, not a "real" weakness of the Potara. You pointing out how it's non-lethal or fatal over and over isn't going to stop the fact that just because it wasn't fatal, it doesn't suddenly make the fact that she was being overpowered and overwhelmed at that time disappear. It took her both her using a massive amount of Ki, being caught off-guard, and blasted by someone who was clearly stated to be getting stronger at every moment for the Potaras to break.
You keep on making this point. Goku was supressed to not kill Kefla. The Kamehameha was suppressed to a level that wouldn't kill Kefla. Meaning that anyone that can harm, but not kill, Kefla could potentially perform the same feat.
..? Now I don't get your argument. Elder Kai had ignorance over Potara's mechanics with Mortals because no mortals fused at that point prior,
Cool. So you agree Gowasu and Zamasu would know nothing about mortals using the potaras? Considering NO MORTALS used the potara prior to Vegito?
Also if destroying the Potara would undo the fusion, why didn't they do that for Kibito Kai? It's not like they couldn't get another set since it's an item from the occupation. They had to go out of their way and get a Wish Dragon to undo the fusion.
Other users already suggested that the potara is permanent for the Kais but not for mortals, which is probably why. Another reason could simply be pure ignorance.
Half Immortal.
No, immortal. You can't 'halve' immortality. The only thing different with Zamasu was his body's Regenerationn being screwed up from his mortal-half and...shock and horror! Zamasu was blown to itsy bitsy pieces and was still alive! He even merged with the whole goddamned universe!
First of all, NLF. Just because he has infinite storage doesn't mean he can field all that energy at once.
He's literally immortal. That isn't a NLF. He is LITERALLY IMMORTAL. The only method that worked in killing him was freaking god warping in from out of nowhere and erasing Zamasu's entire existence from all of space and time.
For crying out-loud just look at Zamasu himself. He went up against Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and never displayed exhaustion of any form.
Second of all, he was only half-immortal and obviously got more distorted and weaker as he went on (With the purply bits getting more violently sloshy near the end).
Yeah, that's why he merged with the entire timeline after being vaporised.
Example would be, just because I have over a billion bullets in storage doesn't mean I can fire off that many bullets at once from my 9mm Pistol. Like any other fighter or gunner, I'd still be limited by my firerates until I get a better gun
Your analogy doesn't work. Does your gun never run out of ammo, ever? Does your gun NEVER malfunction? Does it automatically reload? In-fact, how is the concept of a limited ammo even remotely analogous to a super-powered break with thousands of times the energy output of universe-busters, that has immortality?
If I recall correctly, Kefla's clothes weren't wrecked either. So are you asserting that Kefla's Clothes > Potara Earrings in durability?
Depends. Would Kefla place greater emphasis on preventing her clothing from being destroyed? If so, she could have simply focused her energy on protecting her clothing.
_________________
These posts are getting too long. I'm not sure how much I'd continue contributing to this thread but I'd suggest we stop quoting parts of the argument, to lower word space.
Cool. You are still missing the point though. Goku's power was suppressed to the extent that it wouldn't KILL Kefla. Meaning that level of power is achievable by anyone comparable to Kefla. I'm basically saying that Kefla is evidence of people akin to a Potara fusion being capable of destroying their ear rings.
Because I use a sword and someone stronger can take the sword from me, the sword's weakness is that it can be taken? That's legitimately what you're saying.
No but if someone can snap your sword in half, thus lowering your power by dozens of times...yes. That's a pretty huge weakness. Again, if this were Gogeta vs Vegito it would result in Vegito defusing from his potaras breaking and Gogeta instantly winning.
Firstly, where was it ever said that they're officially equivalent? As far as canon is concerned, everything about Potara in Z still stands besides the time limit retcon which the Supreme Kais wouldn't have known about since that's likely their first instance of Mortals fusing.
Literally stated with the release of the DBS Broly movie. If you don't think that's good enough, take it up with the entire wiki for accepting it.
That is honestly pretty terrible reasoning when a massive plot point in that Arc is how resilient and powerful Saiyans are. That's more of a resilience/durability feat for Kefla, not a "real" weakness of the Potara. You pointing out how it's non-lethal or fatal over and over isn't going to stop the fact that just because it wasn't fatal, it doesn't suddenly make the fact that she was being overpowered and overwhelmed at that time disappear. It took her both her using a massive amount of Ki, being caught off-guard, and blasted by someone who was clearly stated to be getting stronger at every moment for the Potaras to break.
You keep on making this point. Goku was supressed to not kill Kefla. The Kamehameha was suppressed to a level that wouldn't kill Kefla. Meaning that anyone that can harm, but not kill, Kefla could potentially perform the same feat.
..? Now I don't get your argument. Elder Kai had ignorance over Potara's mechanics with Mortals because no mortals fused at that point prior,
Cool. So you agree Gowasu and Zamasu would know nothing about mortals using the potaras? Considering NO MORTALS used the potara prior to Vegito?
Also if destroying the Potara would undo the fusion, why didn't they do that for Kibito Kai? It's not like they couldn't get another set since it's an item from the occupation. They had to go out of their way and get a Wish Dragon to undo the fusion.
Other users already suggested that the potara is permanent for the Kais but not for mortals, which is probably why. Another reason could simply be pure ignorance.
Half Immortal.
No, immortal. You can't 'halve' immortality. The only thing different with Zamasu was his body's Regenerationn being screwed up from his mortal-half and...shock and horror! Zamasu was blown to itsy bitsy pieces and was still alive! He even merged with the whole goddamned universe!
First of all, NLF. Just because he has infinite storage doesn't mean he can field all that energy at once.
He's literally immortal. That isn't a NLF. He is LITERALLY IMMORTAL. The only method that worked in killing him was freaking god warping in from out of nowhere and erasing Zamasu's entire existence from all of space and time.
For crying out-loud just look at Zamasu himself. He went up against Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and never displayed exhaustion of any form.
Second of all, he was only half-immortal and obviously got more distorted and weaker as he went on (With the purply bits getting more violently sloshy near the end).
Yeah, that's why he merged with the entire timeline after being vaporised.
Example would be, just because I have over a billion bullets in storage doesn't mean I can fire off that many bullets at once from my 9mm Pistol. Like any other fighter or gunner, I'd still be limited by my firerates until I get a better gun
Your analogy doesn't work. Does your gun never run out of ammo, ever? Does your gun NEVER malfunction? Does it automatically reload? In-fact, how is the concept of a limited ammo even remotely analogous to a super-powered break with thousands of times the energy output of universe-busters, that has immortality?
If I recall correctly, Kefla's clothes weren't wrecked either. So are you asserting that Kefla's Clothes > Potara Earrings in durability?
Depends. Would Kefla place greater emphasis on preventing her clothing from being destroyed? If so, she could have simply focused her energy on protecting her clothing.
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These posts are getting too long. I'm not sure how much I'd continue contributing to this thread but I'd suggest we stop quoting parts of the argument, to lower word space.
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Kefla didn't defuse because the Potara were broken. That's just a dumb idea.
Every single fighter that fell off the arena, when transported to the bench, arrived in base form. Hell, in the manga they landed on the bench fully healed and with all their clothes back. Grand Priest is the one in charge of doing the transporting, and if his much weaker children are capable of bringing people back from the dead, surely he can break a fusion.
SSJ Cabba falling out of bounds - lands on the bench instantly in base form
SSJ Goku - same
Ganos landed in his normal form, not his duck transformation.
Tenshinhan's clones all fell off the arena simultaneously, yet we didn't get to see them actually rejoin with him, he just landed as one body. It's safe to assume that GP ended that technique too. I mean the guy changed the entire color of an infinite realm just by raising his hand.
So Kefla just had the same treatment - she landed separated and in base form because El Grande Padre does that to everyone who falls out of the ring.
Her earrings shattering was just symbolic. It was just a sign of her defeat. Nobody ever stated that breaking them causes separation.
Finally, even a being as weak as Porunga can break a Potara Fusion (why do you think Kibito Kai is separate anyway?). I'm sure that El Grande Padre can do that too effortlessly. And he did.
Every single fighter that fell off the arena, when transported to the bench, arrived in base form. Hell, in the manga they landed on the bench fully healed and with all their clothes back. Grand Priest is the one in charge of doing the transporting, and if his much weaker children are capable of bringing people back from the dead, surely he can break a fusion.
SSJ Cabba falling out of bounds - lands on the bench instantly in base form
SSJ Goku - same
Ganos landed in his normal form, not his duck transformation.
Tenshinhan's clones all fell off the arena simultaneously, yet we didn't get to see them actually rejoin with him, he just landed as one body. It's safe to assume that GP ended that technique too. I mean the guy changed the entire color of an infinite realm just by raising his hand.
So Kefla just had the same treatment - she landed separated and in base form because El Grande Padre does that to everyone who falls out of the ring.
Her earrings shattering was just symbolic. It was just a sign of her defeat. Nobody ever stated that breaking them causes separation.
Finally, even a being as weak as Porunga can break a Potara Fusion (why do you think Kibito Kai is separate anyway?). I'm sure that El Grande Padre can do that too effortlessly. And he did.
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Your argument is nonsensical.
Cabba was overwhelmed by Golden Frieza.
Goku was barely even capable of taping into SS and exerted all of his energy to defeat Jiren.
The both of them were damaged and exhausted enough to be knocked out of their transformations.
Ganos is difficult to state, as we don't know the extent of his transformation but he was utterly overwhelmed by Roshi. As a result of lacking knowledge of the specifics of his form, it is not justifiable to use it in your argument.
Multi-Form, IIRC, dissipates automatically when the copies are unable to be maintained. There is no evidence that the multi-forms didn't just dissipate and merge back with Tien.
Porunga has hax. You spend your argument arguing that Grand Priest has hax with no feats and then claim that Porunga's hax is 'weak'?
Overall, you have no feats to back up your claims. The only legitimate point you have made is Ganos detransforming and that's a form we barely know anything about.
Cabba was overwhelmed by Golden Frieza.
Goku was barely even capable of taping into SS and exerted all of his energy to defeat Jiren.
The both of them were damaged and exhausted enough to be knocked out of their transformations.
Ganos is difficult to state, as we don't know the extent of his transformation but he was utterly overwhelmed by Roshi. As a result of lacking knowledge of the specifics of his form, it is not justifiable to use it in your argument.
Multi-Form, IIRC, dissipates automatically when the copies are unable to be maintained. There is no evidence that the multi-forms didn't just dissipate and merge back with Tien.
Porunga has hax. You spend your argument arguing that Grand Priest has hax with no feats and then claim that Porunga's hax is 'weak'?
Overall, you have no feats to back up your claims. The only legitimate point you have made is Ganos detransforming and that's a form we barely know anything about.
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I totally forgot to mention how in the manga every single fighter landed on the bench detransformed, fully healed and with all their clothes back, didn't I? Kefla's earrings didn't break and she still landed on the bench as two separate beings in base form in the manga.
As for Grand Priest - the guy changed the color of an infinite realm just by lifting his hand, and his children can revive people, reverse time, deliver a baby and a whole load of stuff. Presumably he can too, so he clearly has a lot of hax like that. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to break a Potara fusion, as Porunga is extremely weak compared to feats like that.
As for Grand Priest - the guy changed the color of an infinite realm just by lifting his hand, and his children can revive people, reverse time, deliver a baby and a whole load of stuff. Presumably he can too, so he clearly has a lot of hax like that. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to break a Potara fusion, as Porunga is extremely weak compared to feats like that.
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Manga and Anime don't have any crossover on the wiki. While that argument applies to the manga Potara, it would not apply to the anime Potara.
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But that point was never even once implied in the anime or manga...
So why are we acting as if it's absolute truth? Every single fact about the Potara was stated by the Supreme Kais.
So why are we acting as if it's absolute truth? Every single fact about the Potara was stated by the Supreme Kais.
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And they have been proven wrong about almost everything. The Supreme Kais are constantly contradicted. This thread is more of whether or not Kefla defused from the potaras being destroyed or not.
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If that were true, don't you think they would have warned Goku and Vegeta literally every single time? I mean it would be a pretty huge weakness.
Thinking that the Potara breaking has anything to do with separation is completely headcanon.
And manga Potara were never stated to have anything different from anime Potara
Thinking that the Potara breaking has anything to do with separation is completely headcanon.
And manga Potara were never stated to have anything different from anime Potara
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Not really. Characters can enhance items with Ki for durability, sharpness, etc as far as we can tell. Chances are that the potaras are protected by the same aura or effect. To add further, Elder Kai was clearly ignorant of how potara works on mortals and there is no precedent for the potaras shattering when a mortal wears them.
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I know it's not canon, but still:
In Wrath of Dragon, Gotenks gets KOed by Hildegarn, and as result of that, they immediately defuse.
By the looks of it, to me it sounds more plausible to think that when a Fusion gets knocked out, it immediately ends, probably because the fighters are no longer able to sustain the union.
The potaras breaking is just a coincidence / is just for dramatic effect IMHO
In Wrath of Dragon, Gotenks gets KOed by Hildegarn, and as result of that, they immediately defuse.
By the looks of it, to me it sounds more plausible to think that when a Fusion gets knocked out, it immediately ends, probably because the fighters are no longer able to sustain the union.
The potaras breaking is just a coincidence / is just for dramatic effect IMHO
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I mean the Gotenks bit happened against Beerus too so, agreed.
The Potaras shattering is something people just keep overthinking. It doesn't mean anything besides a symbol of Kale and Caulifla's defeat. Nothing more.
The Potaras shattering is something people just keep overthinking. It doesn't mean anything besides a symbol of Kale and Caulifla's defeat. Nothing more.
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Something as simple as breaking the earrings to defuse would be said, there wouldnt even be a worry of being fused forever if you couldve broken them. and fusion even if it didnt involve the potara earrings can still split. so the it breaking has nothing to do with it. Its simply overpowering them. whether it be fatal or not, if you're massively stronger or do an attack thats massively stronger chances are its gonna cause them to split. They've never split against someone who wasnt massively stronger,or doing a massively stronger attack. Its clearly not a weakness then if you have to actually be stronger for it to work.
And if something like this isnt directly stated, or even hinted at, then its clear they never intended for it to be the case, making this entire thing just headcannon.
And if something like this isnt directly stated, or even hinted at, then its clear they never intended for it to be the case, making this entire thing just headcannon.
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Vegito can create a barrier
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And MUI power multiplyer is far greater than Fusion Multiplyer so MUI is like stronger than Gogeta and Vegito
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