A Lord of The Rings Upgrade for the Balrogs (And all who scale to them)

[FuriousFieryFist]

Thanks to a recent thread which educated me on the exact specifics of our upscaling policy, I believe the Balrogs should qualify for upscaling to the next tier. The original Low 7-B calculation specifies that the Balrogs were able to damage Ungoliant when Morgoths cry was unable to injure her in any way. The gap between 7-B and the 5.19 Megaton value the scream was calculated to be is only 1.22x rounding up, which should allow them to qualify for upscaling. On another note I also noticed that on the verse page Ungoliant is rated as High 3-A yet the Balrogs who were noted to cause her pain are not also rated as such, is their a reason for this? If so I think clarification on the pages would be warranted.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

bump

 

[Dinamic8000]

Thanks to a recent thread which educated me on the exact specifics of our upscaling policy, I believe the Balrogs should qualify for upscaling to the next tier. The original Low 7-B calculation specifies that the Balrogs were able to damage Ungoliant when Morgoths cry was unable to injure her in any way. The gap between 7-B and the 5.19 Megaton value the scream was calculated to be is only 1.22x rounding up, which should allow them to qualify for upscaling. On another note I also noticed that on the verse page Ungoliant is rated as High 3-A yet the Balrogs who were noted to cause her pain are not also rated as such, is their a reason for this? If so I think clarification on the pages would be warranted.

I remember way back in the Legendarium threads I made an argument that this passage in The Silmariliun could be interpreted as Ungoliant being scary of the flames made by the Balrogs rather than they overcoming the big spider with pure AP. It would make sense with her characters and the fact that she never tried to break the barrier created by Melian (An character heavily associated with the light).

Having said that, I'm not the most well versed regarding the AP chain in the verse, you could other members here

 

[Tyranno223]

I don't particularly have an opinion on the upscaling. If that's how it works then I'm fine with it either way. Plus the current evaluation of Morgoth's scream is a low-ball.

I remember way back in the Legendarium threads I made an argument that this passage in The Silmariliun could be interpreted as Ungoliant being scary of the flames made by the Balrogs rather than they overcoming the big spider with pure AP. It would make sense with her characters and the fact that she never tried to break the barrier created by Melian (An character heavily associated with the light).

Having said that, I'm not the most well versed regarding the AP chain in the verse, you could other members here

Pretty much this. The passage makes no actual reference to Ungoliant being harmed and that she largely just feared the fiery whips of the Balrogs

"Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and passing over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire. With their whips of flame they smote asunder the webs of Ungoliant, and she quailed, and turned to flight, belching black vapours to cover her; and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand"

The Balrogs don't scale as a result (plus it's a massive outlier, similar to Feanor or Finrod being threatened by orcs, Boldogs or not). Regarding Ungoliant fearing light, it's not 100% certain but is implied. We also have Shelob's reaction to the light of Eärendil to compare as well.

"Thence she had crept towards the light of the Blessed Realm; for she hungered for light and hated it." - the only quote I know of that directly speaks of Ungoliant's reaction to light.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I don't particularly have an opinion on the upscaling. If that's how it works then I'm fine with it either way. Plus the current evaluation of Morgoth's scream is a low-ball.


Pretty much this. The passage makes no actual reference to Ungoliant being harmed and that she largely just feared the fiery whips of the Balrogs

"Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and passing over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire. With their whips of flame they smote asunder the webs of Ungoliant, and she quailed, and turned to flight, belching black vapours to cover her; and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand"

The Balrogs don't scale as a result (plus it's a massive outlier, similar to Feanor or Finrod being threatened by orcs, Boldogs or not). Regarding Ungoliant fearing light, it's not 100% certain but is implied. We also have Shelob's reaction to the light of Eärendil to compare as well.

"Thence she had crept towards the light of the Blessed Realm; for she hungered for light and hated it." - the only quote I know of that directly speaks of Ungoliant's reaction to light.

If that's the case why on their pages are they listed as causing pain to Ungoliant and scale to low 7-B?

 

[Tyranno223]

If that's the case why on their pages are they listed as causing pain to Ungoliant and scale to low 7-B?

Outdated. I haven't touched the Ainur pages outside abilities in a while. It'll probably be changed to a scaling via destroying her webs or something else. I forget the exact reasoning.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Outdated. I haven't touched the Ainur pages outside abilities in a while. It'll probably be changed to a scaling via destroying her webs or something else. I forget the exact reasoning.

When do you plan on updating them?

 

[Tyranno223]

When do you plan on updating them?

Statistics are on the backburner compared to abilities (although I do need to add change Infinite speed to Immeasurable at some point). The former is at least somewhat acceptable after the initial revisions but the latter was in an atrocious state. The Ainur pages in particular need their individual abilities to be added as right now it's just the universal resistances and race powers on their page (anything unhighlighted is outdated and just there to prevent them from all being the same page).