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Why doesn't Harry have resistance to Mind Manipulation via resisting the Imperius Curse again?
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About Harry Potter
- Thread starter Kepekley23
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maybe becuse it was his own mind? like, if u cant control ur own mind, thats bad lol, but jokes aside, why would that be mind manipulation anyways? just curious
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I mean, it was the strong will deal no? SBA page even mentions that that doesn't mean much.
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Isn't that telekinesis?
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telekenisis is lifting things with ur mind. is that what ur talking about?
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What..? Imperius is the curse that makes others do whatever you want them to.Antoniofer said:
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Maybe I'm confusing spells, isn't Imperius the one that ragdoll people?
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no, it makes u obey the user. thats right, right?
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RightLorenzo.r.2nd said:
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telekenisis is the wingarduim leviosa (just go on youtube and watch that parody that they made. it will explain everything)
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It's one of the three big bad spells.Antoniofer said:
There is the killing curse, the pain curse, and the mind control.
Avada, Cruciatus and Imperius.
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Welp, what's the ofcicial description of the spell? Depending of how it is, it could be either Mind Manipulation, Body Puppetry, Telekinesis or Command Inducement; although, being resistent to magic can also counter its effect due to its nature, but I do not known enough about HP to say so.
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leaning towards body pup and command induce
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It affects the mind directly.
But a strong will can resist it, so it's more the spell having a weakness.
But a strong will can resist it, so it's more the spell having a weakness.
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- Thread starter
- #15
No, Imperius is 100% undoubtedly Mind Manipulation. It is outright described to make the person feel an unnatural sense of happiness and ecstasy because all other feelings leave the body, and all the person can feel or hear is a voice in their consciousness telling them what to do. In Harry's case, his own will overpowers and breaks the spell.
> But a strong will can resist it, so it's more the spell having a weakness.
Uh, no? That's the exact opposite of what is usually assumed.
> But a strong will can resist it, so it's more the spell having a weakness.
Uh, no? That's the exact opposite of what is usually assumed.
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If that's how the spell works and Harry resisted it, I don't see why he wouldn't have resistance.
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While it's true that we usually assume that if a hax fails its resistance and not the hax having a hidden weakness (as questionable as that practice is at times), if a hax is explicitely stated to not work under certain conditions that's a different thing.
The Imperius curse is explicitely said to be resistable through willpower and strength of character. So resisting it that way should be no resistance feat, except maybe to mind control that can be resisted that way.
It would be something else if they created mind barriers or something via willpower, but from what we have seen it's really just wanting it enough.
The Imperius curse is explicitely said to be resistable through willpower and strength of character. So resisting it that way should be no resistance feat, except maybe to mind control that can be resisted that way.
It would be something else if they created mind barriers or something via willpower, but from what we have seen it's really just wanting it enough.
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If harry resisted and it was said it was due to his willpower, that is still fine on its own.
However, if Imperius is said to not work in general on dudes with strong willpower, that's just a weakness.
However, if Imperius is said to not work in general on dudes with strong willpower, that's just a weakness.
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- #19
> The Imperius curse is explicitely said to be resistable through willpower and strength of character.
Aka, people who can resist it. Mindhax being countered by good willpower is a common trend and frankly how the majority of the mindhaxes out there work. This isn't a specific weakness that makes this not applicable.
Aka, people who can resist it. Mindhax being countered by good willpower is a common trend and frankly how the majority of the mindhaxes out there work. This isn't a specific weakness that makes this not applicable.
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- Thread starter
- #20
An example of Imperio being used on Harry:
Should be pretty evident that it's not a weakness, it's the sheer mental strength at play here.
- Harry didn't answer. He was going to die like Cedric, those pitiless red eyes were telling him so ... he was going to die, and there was nothing he could do about it ... but he wasn't going to play along. He wasn't going to obey Voldemort .. he wasn't going to beg ...
- 'I asked you whether you want me to do that again?' said Voldemort softly. 'Answer me! Imperio!'
- And Harry felt, for the third time in his life, the sensation that his mind had been wiped of all thought ... ah, it was bliss, not to think, it was as though he was floating, dreaming ..
- "Just answer 'no' ... say 'no' ... just answer 'no' ...
- I will not, said a stronger voice, in the back of his head, I won't answer ...
- Just answer 'no' ...
- I won't do it, I won't say it ...
- Just answer 'no' ..
- 'I WON'T!'
- And these words burst from Harry's mouth; they echoed through the graveyard, and the dream state was lifted as suddenly as though cold water had been thrown over him [. . .]
Should be pretty evident that it's not a weakness, it's the sheer mental strength at play here.
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But the fact that willpower is what allows it to be broken is the dealbreaker here.
It is noted that resisting a mindhax through willpowers mean nothing notable. Like, it's plain said that it just needs willpower.
The Imperius curse can be fought, and I'll be teaching you how, but it takes real strength of character, and not everyone's got it. Better avoid being hit with it…
It is noted that resisting a mindhax through willpowers mean nothing notable. Like, it's plain said that it just needs willpower.
The Imperius curse can be fought, and I'll be teaching you how, but it takes real strength of character, and not everyone's got it. Better avoid being hit with it…
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- #22
Which is basically saying that those who have good mental strength can resist it. Seriously, it's such a common trend in fiction. It's not a weakness. The actual instances of it being used override any of these assumptions.
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No it isn't. A mindhax that can be overwhelmed through willpower alone isn't much of a notable thing at all. It affects the mind, but this is the instance where I any shounen protagonist would nope it.
All this means is that the character has a strong will, which is not something that needs to be particularly noted.
All this means is that the character has a strong will, which is not something that needs to be particularly noted.
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- #24
Heavily against such a notion. The opposite should be actually assumed, the actual instances override these assumptions.
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Assumption? It is plain stated in the story that all it takes to overcome is a strong will.
The showings don't contradict this either. There is an effect that makes you want to not think and just do whatever it tells you to, and you can force yourself not to if you want it enough.
The showings don't contradict this either. There is an effect that makes you want to not think and just do whatever it tells you to, and you can force yourself not to if you want it enough.
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- #26
Yep. Those with enough mental strength are able to resist it, which is why they should have Resistance to Mind Manipulation.
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No, dude. This is litirally willpowering your way through it.
Litirally any shounen anime character would be able to resist the imperius with ease.
The skills weakness is that anyone with a strong enough willpower can resist it, any decent mindhax would give absolutely zero care about how much the character doesn't want to be mindhaxed.
Like, this is like giving someone resistance to information manipulation because the in-verse info manip only works on enemies comparable to you (a very common trope amongst game based fiction like the gamer and the new gate).
This is doubly so because they don't even have that great of a willpower. Better than your average joe, yeah, but still nothin really notable.
Litirally any shounen anime character would be able to resist the imperius with ease.
The skills weakness is that anyone with a strong enough willpower can resist it, any decent mindhax would give absolutely zero care about how much the character doesn't want to be mindhaxed.
Like, this is like giving someone resistance to information manipulation because the in-verse info manip only works on enemies comparable to you (a very common trope amongst game based fiction like the gamer and the new gate).
This is doubly so because they don't even have that great of a willpower. Better than your average joe, yeah, but still nothin really notable.
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- #28
Except the actual showings contradict this assumption. Sorry, but I personally find the fact that this is a debate surprising, so I apologize if I come across as blunt, but there is really no evidence that having good willpower is all it takes to overpower the curse, and we know that the person goes through a mental battle with the caster. You're just misinterpreting a statement by Barty Crouch of all people.
It is outright stated in Order of the Phoenix by Snape that resisting the Imperius Curse takes an extremely similar approach as to being an Occlumens, putting up mental barriers to prevent intruders from reading or messing with your mind.
It is outright stated in Order of the Phoenix by Snape that resisting the Imperius Curse takes an extremely similar approach as to being an Occlumens, putting up mental barriers to prevent intruders from reading or messing with your mind.
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Kep makes sense here, as always. Plus, Barty Jr., who viewed Voldy as a true father and would have done everything in his power to help him, took years to develop a resistance to his father's Imperius and start his master plan to revive Voldy. It is obviously not just "X really really doesn't want to be affected, so he won't"
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I'm no expert on the verse, so I might have gotten the context wrong.
Still tough, stuff resisted through willpower doesn't mean much.
Still tough, stuff resisted through willpower doesn't mean much.
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- #32
That's false. Nothing states the other curses can't be countered. Dumbledore managed to counter an Avada Kedavra with Stupefy, and Lily's blood protection making Harry survive is basically the series's plot twist. What is stated is that it penetrates shield charms like Protego, nothing more than that.
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I think it would be better if someone post the statement about the Imperius weakness, if there's any then I guess the Resistance can be added, otherwise nothing change unless there's something Enhanced Willpower or similar.
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Don't remember Dumbledore countering Avada Kedavra with Stupefy, I remember him bringing in statues and Fawkes to take the hits. But Lily's was an ancient magic which took the ultimate sacrifice to pull off. Anyway, my point related to the OP still stands.
@Anto
It's directly stated that anyone with a great strength of will and character can resist it.
@Anto
It's directly stated that anyone with a great strength of will and character can resist it.
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I am well aware of the fact that most hax is actually not half as hax as people like to present it, exactly because authors like to frequently pull such things. Non the less that doesn't make it a resistance.Kepekley23 said:
Humans can endure small amounts of poison or eat things poisonous to other species without problem, yet they don't have poison resistance. If you are just as resistant to something as some normal human, you are not resistant at all. So yeah, resisting mind hax via pure willpower makes it a bad mind hax, not a resistant human. Unless we are talking about supernatural levels of willpower or something.
I have no copy of most books at hand, much less in english. But here a quote detailing what IIRC was the first time Harry was put under the imperius curse, I could find on the net.
And then he heard Mad-Eye Moody's voice, echoing in some distant chamber of his empty brain: Jump onto the desk . . . jump onto the desk. . . . Harry bent his knees obediently, preparing to spring. Jump onto the desk. . . . Why, though? Another voice had awoken in the back of his brain. Stupid thing to do, really, said the voice. Jump onto the desk. . . . No, I don't think I will, thanks, said the other voice, a little more firmly . . . no, I don't really want to . . . Jump! NOW! The next thing Harry felt was considerable pain. He had both jumped and tried to prevent himself from jumping — the result was that he'd smashed headlong into the desk, knocking it over, and, by the feeling in his legs, fractured both his kneecaps. |
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- #36
>Humans can endure small amounts of poison or eat things poisonous to other species without problem, yet they don't have poison resistance.'
This is a false equivalence and can be even untrue depending on the context. The majority of toxins or poisons which are heavily poisonous to other species tend not to be compatible with the human organism and thus easily broken down and incorporated into the human body. In fact, Mithridatism is a perfectly valid way to develop immunity to snake venoms, for the most part. Stuff like cyanide can hardly be broken down by the body so trying to build up immunity to it would be difficult, if not downright impossible, which means someone who practiced Mithridatism wouldn't be resistant to cyanide, but would be resistant to most types of plant poisons. So if we had a profile for them, they'd totally have Resistance to Poison Manipulation, yes.
> He half resisted the effects without any training or any form, just by having the strong will to listen to his voice of reason.
Harry's superwizard feats of power are mostly explained by Voldemort's power transferrence.
Barty Crouch Jr. spent years trapped under an Imperius Curse despite his strong will and loyalty to Voldemort. It's clear that it isn't as simple as "I don't want to listen to you!".
Resisting the Imperius Curse was said by Snape to be comparable to erecting a mental barrier, just like an Occlumens. We shouldn't be trying to handwave the showings because of Barty Crouch's vague line about strength of character when everything else suggests otherwise.
This is a false equivalence and can be even untrue depending on the context. The majority of toxins or poisons which are heavily poisonous to other species tend not to be compatible with the human organism and thus easily broken down and incorporated into the human body. In fact, Mithridatism is a perfectly valid way to develop immunity to snake venoms, for the most part. Stuff like cyanide can hardly be broken down by the body so trying to build up immunity to it would be difficult, if not downright impossible, which means someone who practiced Mithridatism wouldn't be resistant to cyanide, but would be resistant to most types of plant poisons. So if we had a profile for them, they'd totally have Resistance to Poison Manipulation, yes.
> He half resisted the effects without any training or any form, just by having the strong will to listen to his voice of reason.
Harry's superwizard feats of power are mostly explained by Voldemort's power transferrence.
Barty Crouch Jr. spent years trapped under an Imperius Curse despite his strong will and loyalty to Voldemort. It's clear that it isn't as simple as "I don't want to listen to you!".
Resisting the Imperius Curse was said by Snape to be comparable to erecting a mental barrier, just like an Occlumens. We shouldn't be trying to handwave the showings because of Barty Crouch's vague line about strength of character when everything else suggests otherwise.
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