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Was infinite multiverses and an infinite higher dimensional multiverse stated/referred/implied before the events of the Secret War(1984)?
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About Marvel's cosmology before 1984
- Thread starter UnknownGodXXX
- Start date
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Speaking of Marvel's Cosmology I was planning on making a thread about that to talk about a similar discussion before I launch a CRT .Do you mind if I use this thread for it once your question is answered ?
As for your question.... Yes there were infinite-dimensions prior due to references to it like Kubik talking about infinite levels of the Multiverse, Reed knowing of the Crossroads of Infinity and other such hints.
As for your question.... Yes there were infinite-dimensions prior due to references to it like Kubik talking about infinite levels of the Multiverse, Reed knowing of the Crossroads of Infinity and other such hints.
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Can you site the sources of those events? There are arguments here in this wiki though that an infinite higher dimensional space multiverse didn't exist until after 1984, and they say that the mention of the Crossroads, in context, is describing infinite dimensions(universes).
And sure go ahead.
And sure go ahead.
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This is also this site's reason why Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man aren't solid 1-As because of the difference in cosmology. I'm just checking for other knowledgeable members of the series if it's true or not.
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Uhh no to the first thing ... The first time it is mention Reed is explicitly talking about higher dimensions. Once I get back on computer I can properly give scans to that.
In lack of better ways to explain this... I'll just link the blog I'm working on: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_2nd_Existential_Seed/Marvel_Cosmology_Revision
Basically the realities such as 616 and Heroes Reborn have far greater feats an than just merely being 4-D rralities... So I'm tying to see how they should be treated... And if DeMatteis obscure stuff is considered into the canon... it could result in rather drastic xhange to those currently scaled to "At least 2-C" , "2-A", and "High 1-B"... Hence why I want the assistance of others.
In lack of better ways to explain this... I'll just link the blog I'm working on: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_2nd_Existential_Seed/Marvel_Cosmology_Revision
Basically the realities such as 616 and Heroes Reborn have far greater feats an than just merely being 4-D rralities... So I'm tying to see how they should be treated... And if DeMatteis obscure stuff is considered into the canon... it could result in rather drastic xhange to those currently scaled to "At least 2-C" , "2-A", and "High 1-B"... Hence why I want the assistance of others.
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kubik's tour with maker (or kosmos) is after the aftermaths of secret wars lol, the only thing we have thats actually solid is the reed statement, and that in itself is enough. Also, The Beyonder himself mentions the marvel multiverse being infinite dimensional, I don't get the cosmology chronology argument if that was the case
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@The 2nd Existential Seed
I already read the issue and the only dimensional things he said(that isn't synonymous to universes) was the dimensional barrier and the 4th dimensional universe. The crossroads is merely a link to every universes that is why it says "junction to everywhere". Dimensions always refer to realms or universes.
Even when Beyonder went into the Crossroads, it was implied that the Crossroads are part of many-layered(infinite universes) multiverse, and also the fact it was mentioned as an interdimensional intersection(not infinite dimensional or anything similar.)
In Alpha Flight(specifically #73), the Crossroads was referred to as an "interdimensional nexus that leading to a vast array of realities."
Also in Hulk vs Hercules(although pass 1984), it spoke of the Crossroads as a "mystic land between million portals could lead Hulk to a million different worlds" further proving that it's just a link to everywhere.
The infinite adjacent dimensions stated in Secret Wars refers to universes(especially if you read in context) since dimensional planes are not horizontally beside each other.
So saying that the Crossroads is an infinite higher dimensional structure is just a misunderstanding when multiple sources says otherwise. Don't get me wrong, Marvel has an infinite higher dimensional multiverse but the Crossroads isn't the reasons. There are infinite planes/levels which are blatantly stated. But does it(High 1-B multiverse) exist during or earlier the events of Secret Wars?
I already read the issue and the only dimensional things he said(that isn't synonymous to universes) was the dimensional barrier and the 4th dimensional universe. The crossroads is merely a link to every universes that is why it says "junction to everywhere". Dimensions always refer to realms or universes.
Even when Beyonder went into the Crossroads, it was implied that the Crossroads are part of many-layered(infinite universes) multiverse, and also the fact it was mentioned as an interdimensional intersection(not infinite dimensional or anything similar.)
In Alpha Flight(specifically #73), the Crossroads was referred to as an "interdimensional nexus that leading to a vast array of realities."
Also in Hulk vs Hercules(although pass 1984), it spoke of the Crossroads as a "mystic land between million portals could lead Hulk to a million different worlds" further proving that it's just a link to everywhere.
The infinite adjacent dimensions stated in Secret Wars refers to universes(especially if you read in context) since dimensional planes are not horizontally beside each other.
So saying that the Crossroads is an infinite higher dimensional structure is just a misunderstanding when multiple sources says otherwise. Don't get me wrong, Marvel has an infinite higher dimensional multiverse but the Crossroads isn't the reasons. There are infinite planes/levels which are blatantly stated. But does it(High 1-B multiverse) exist during or earlier the events of Secret Wars?
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"I already read the issue and the only dimensional things he said(that isn't synonymous to universes) was the dimensional barrier and the 4th dimensional universe. The crossroads is merely a link to every universes that is why it says "junction to everywhere". Dimensions always refer to realms or universes."
"It's almost more than human eyes can bear! I'm actually witnessing a four dimensional universe, but the effect of seeing it with 3 dimensional vision is indescribable", this is the term he uses before saying the limitless dimensions sca
For all your arguments, whats stopping the crossroads from connecting to every universe AND dimension? its completely possible and still makes sense by the descriptions.
"The infinite adjacent dimensions stated in Secret Wars refers to universes(especially if you read in context) since dimensional planes are not horizontally beside each other."
Nobody brought that up, I am talking about the many layered one.
" There are infinite planes/levels which are blatantly stated. But does it(High 1-B multiverse) exist during or earlier the events of Secret Wars?"
Both
"It's almost more than human eyes can bear! I'm actually witnessing a four dimensional universe, but the effect of seeing it with 3 dimensional vision is indescribable", this is the term he uses before saying the limitless dimensions sca
For all your arguments, whats stopping the crossroads from connecting to every universe AND dimension? its completely possible and still makes sense by the descriptions.
"The infinite adjacent dimensions stated in Secret Wars refers to universes(especially if you read in context) since dimensional planes are not horizontally beside each other."
Nobody brought that up, I am talking about the many layered one.
" There are infinite planes/levels which are blatantly stated. But does it(High 1-B multiverse) exist during or earlier the events of Secret Wars?"
Both
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The limitless dimensions are referring to the infinite universes that it links, this was repeatedly proven in many comics during and after Secret Wars.
@What's stopping the crossroads from connecting to every universe and dimensional planes?
The very reason that the infinite higher dimensional planes weren't referred to in every appearance that it made. Dimensions=Universes, realms in this context. That is why it's referred to as the junction to everywhere, inter-dimensional nexus that leads through vast array of realities, link to everywhere. It's an inter-dimensional(not infinite dimensional) realm that connects everything.
@Many layered
The scan explicitly states that the multiverse(having infinite dimensions/universes) is many layered. Literally the next page after that, Beyonder goes through this layers of the multiverse like several realms, the microverse and the Crossroads(as one of them). Yeah it's not infinitely layered, if it was, it would stated that instead of "many"
Dimensions are literally most used in Marvel as universes, realms, places with space-time, etc. One would need to prove that they are talking about dimensional planes not just by mere speculations.
@Both
Scans? Make sure it's not the Crossroads, many layered statement, and infinite adjacent dimensions because I've already refuted that.
@What's stopping the crossroads from connecting to every universe and dimensional planes?
The very reason that the infinite higher dimensional planes weren't referred to in every appearance that it made. Dimensions=Universes, realms in this context. That is why it's referred to as the junction to everywhere, inter-dimensional nexus that leads through vast array of realities, link to everywhere. It's an inter-dimensional(not infinite dimensional) realm that connects everything.
@Many layered
The scan explicitly states that the multiverse(having infinite dimensions/universes) is many layered. Literally the next page after that, Beyonder goes through this layers of the multiverse like several realms, the microverse and the Crossroads(as one of them). Yeah it's not infinitely layered, if it was, it would stated that instead of "many"
Dimensions are literally most used in Marvel as universes, realms, places with space-time, etc. One would need to prove that they are talking about dimensional planes not just by mere speculations.
@Both
Scans? Make sure it's not the Crossroads, many layered statement, and infinite adjacent dimensions because I've already refuted that.
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"The limitless dimensions are referring to the infinite universes that it links, this was repeatedly proven in many comics during and after Secret Wars."
"Dimensions always refer to realms or universes."
You gotta prove those claims, buddy. Because so far you have only made empty claims backed by ignorance of the context in which the Reed statement was made
"Dimensions always refer to realms or universes."
You gotta prove those claims, buddy. Because so far you have only made empty claims backed by ignorance of the context in which the Reed statement was made
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@Shivansh
https://imgur.com/gallery/177pHzx I could literally put more scans, during the time of Secret Wars but that wouldn't be necessary. If you want to gather more then read Incredible Hulk Vol 1 300-315.
Did I said that Dimensions always refer to realms or universes? I said in that context, but yeah my point stands that Marvel uses Dimensions and Universes/Realities as synonymous like most of the time.
To prove that something isn't like that, you need to prove it through context not just some 'out of context' scan like that "world of limitless dimensions" scan.
https://imgur.com/gallery/177pHzx I could literally put more scans, during the time of Secret Wars but that wouldn't be necessary. If you want to gather more then read Incredible Hulk Vol 1 300-315.
Did I said that Dimensions always refer to realms or universes? I said in that context, but yeah my point stands that Marvel uses Dimensions and Universes/Realities as synonymous like most of the time.
To prove that something isn't like that, you need to prove it through context not just some 'out of context' scan like that "world of limitless dimensions" scan.
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You do realize that isn't the Crossroads of Infinity right ?
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When first describing the Crossroads Reed is stating this:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/rwmQB0bYn...LF6L1xSo7AMBd6Ni3VsiUFIuTGQMMXOZ04eVlOZ=s1600 , https://2.bp.blogspot.com/DEcMo5kK1...YL7IBnsW-a7uaOEh3f08VG35OvcO9wLVs0WOmT7=s1600 . The first scan proves that when he is referring to "dimensions".... He's referring to higher-dimensions.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/rwmQB0bYn...LF6L1xSo7AMBd6Ni3VsiUFIuTGQMMXOZ04eVlOZ=s1600 , https://2.bp.blogspot.com/DEcMo5kK1...YL7IBnsW-a7uaOEh3f08VG35OvcO9wLVs0WOmT7=s1600 . The first scan proves that when he is referring to "dimensions".... He's referring to higher-dimensions.
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The Crossroads of Infinity is just another name for the Crossroads, it was literally never mentioned after that and the first appearance of the Crossroads was in Incredible Hulk #300, it wasn't even in the one that Reed Richards entered.
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@the 2nd
Yes, that's because he's talking about perspective, how the universe is a 4th dimensional(notice how he says dimensional, in context to dimensional planes but notice how he stopped using it when he reached the Crossroads). He wasn't even ascending through higher dimensions and reached an infinite higher dimensional space. He just want to go to the sub-space to explore it. Literally those dimensions = universes, and multiple occurrences in different comics of the Crossroads says otherwise.
Yes, that's because he's talking about perspective, how the universe is a 4th dimensional(notice how he says dimensional, in context to dimensional planes but notice how he stopped using it when he reached the Crossroads). He wasn't even ascending through higher dimensions and reached an infinite higher dimensional space. He just want to go to the sub-space to explore it. Literally those dimensions = universes, and multiple occurrences in different comics of the Crossroads says otherwise.
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So I ask again, does anyone have any scan of Marvel multiverse being High 1-B during and/or before the events of Secret Wars? It better not be the Crossroads, infinity adjacent dimensions and many layered multiverse(by Beyonder's perspective) because I've already refuted those.
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@Unknown
"I could literally put more scans, during the time of Secret Wars but that wouldn't be necessary"
Still no evidence debunking the Reed statement, so Idek what you're trying to prove there
"Did I said that Dimensions always refer to realms or universes?"
Yes, though Idk if you have edited that
"I said in that context"
And still haven't proven it
" but yeah my point stands that Marvel uses Dimensions and Universes/Realities as synonymous like most of the time"
Most=/=Always
"To prove that something isn't like that, you need to prove it through context not just some 'out of context' scan like that "world of limitless dimensions" scan."
It's you who has to prove that it is like that, buddy. After Hyku's comment this should've been obvious that burden of proof is on you. Now stop wasting everyone's time like an idle nerd and make substantial arguments with actual evidence
"I could literally put more scans, during the time of Secret Wars but that wouldn't be necessary"
Still no evidence debunking the Reed statement, so Idek what you're trying to prove there
"Did I said that Dimensions always refer to realms or universes?"
Yes, though Idk if you have edited that
"I said in that context"
And still haven't proven it
" but yeah my point stands that Marvel uses Dimensions and Universes/Realities as synonymous like most of the time"
Most=/=Always
"To prove that something isn't like that, you need to prove it through context not just some 'out of context' scan like that "world of limitless dimensions" scan."
It's you who has to prove that it is like that, buddy. After Hyku's comment this should've been obvious that burden of proof is on you. Now stop wasting everyone's time like an idle nerd and make substantial arguments with actual evidence
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People tryna debate Marvel comics nowadays are a waste of time smh
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@Shivansh
Literally those dimensions just refer to universes, this has been proven in many different comics. The Crossroads is merely an interdimensional nexus that connects all infinite dimensions(universes in context). It wasn't referenced as an infinite higher dimensional space, that's literally a misunderstanding in a single scan.
In context, Richards said that to the beings(Galactus, Silver Surfer and the Watcher) that have mastered the space-time principle which is the ability to speed faster than light, to any part of the universe. In that current time, Humanity has no defence against an ftl attack, so for the safety of Humanity, Richards said that man too must break the same barrier. He created a machine that makes him go to the sub-space, the sub-space is a region of space where all things are negative while matter is positive. After breaking the dimensional barrier, he was able to see a 4th dimensional universe, and things are moving faster than light
So no, Richards isn't ascending through dimensional planes(like literally the context of the comic says otherwise), he blatantly states that the universe has become a vast kaleidoscope of light and sound, right before he entered the Crossroads. The things that you see(those spheres) is a kaleidoscope(in this context, the limitless dimensions/universes that Richards is talking about).
Here's the link to the story(every part of this comment's claim is directly connected to the comic): https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-51?id=27145
And uh no, I didn't edit it. Dimensions mostly refer to universes, one needs to prove in context that they are referring to dimensional planes. The usage of dimensions with the Crossroads, is talking about realities/universes. Kek, you could even check the history of that comment if you think I changed anything.
Did you actually read the scans that I posted? Each and every one of those supports my argument. I actually did my part so the burden proof is no longer on me. Literally from the old appearance to the new ones, in this case, it always refer to universes/realities.
@Most=/=Always
Yeah but that doesn't prove that the "limitless dimensions" are dimensional planes especially when basic wording, context of the story and other comics says otherwise.
And I love how you didn't refute anything, just called the burden proof of me(which is illogical when I provided scans about my claims when you asked for it), and also on how ironic your claim was, "ignorance of the context" when you, yourself didn't understand the context.
Literally those dimensions just refer to universes, this has been proven in many different comics. The Crossroads is merely an interdimensional nexus that connects all infinite dimensions(universes in context). It wasn't referenced as an infinite higher dimensional space, that's literally a misunderstanding in a single scan.
In context, Richards said that to the beings(Galactus, Silver Surfer and the Watcher) that have mastered the space-time principle which is the ability to speed faster than light, to any part of the universe. In that current time, Humanity has no defence against an ftl attack, so for the safety of Humanity, Richards said that man too must break the same barrier. He created a machine that makes him go to the sub-space, the sub-space is a region of space where all things are negative while matter is positive. After breaking the dimensional barrier, he was able to see a 4th dimensional universe, and things are moving faster than light
So no, Richards isn't ascending through dimensional planes(like literally the context of the comic says otherwise), he blatantly states that the universe has become a vast kaleidoscope of light and sound, right before he entered the Crossroads. The things that you see(those spheres) is a kaleidoscope(in this context, the limitless dimensions/universes that Richards is talking about).
Here's the link to the story(every part of this comment's claim is directly connected to the comic): https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-51?id=27145
And uh no, I didn't edit it. Dimensions mostly refer to universes, one needs to prove in context that they are referring to dimensional planes. The usage of dimensions with the Crossroads, is talking about realities/universes. Kek, you could even check the history of that comment if you think I changed anything.
Did you actually read the scans that I posted? Each and every one of those supports my argument. I actually did my part so the burden proof is no longer on me. Literally from the old appearance to the new ones, in this case, it always refer to universes/realities.
@Most=/=Always
Yeah but that doesn't prove that the "limitless dimensions" are dimensional planes especially when basic wording, context of the story and other comics says otherwise.
And I love how you didn't refute anything, just called the burden proof of me(which is illogical when I provided scans about my claims when you asked for it), and also on how ironic your claim was, "ignorance of the context" when you, yourself didn't understand the context.
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What a waste of time
@Unknown
Literally those dimensions just refer to universes, this has been proven in many different comics.
And has been proven otherwise as well, depending on the context. Also, stick to what has been stated in the Reed scan
The Crossroads is merely an interdimensional nexus that connects all infinite dimensions(universes in context).
You do know Crossroads and 'Crossroads of Infinity' are two different things? Crossroads is this while Crossroads to Infinity is this.
In context, Richards said that to the beings(Galactus, Silver Surfer and the Watcher) that have mastered the space-time principle which is the ability to speed faster than light, to any part of the universe. In that current time, Humanity has no defence against an ftl attack, so for the safety of Humanity, Richards said that man too must break the same barrier.
Okay and what does that proves? I know the context and I have read the comic long ass time ago (as the scan I uploaded on Imgur implies)
He created a machine that makes him go to the sub-space, the sub-space is a region of space where all things are negative while matter is positive. After breaking the dimensional barrier, he was able to see a 4th dimensional universe, and things are moving faster than light
Can you please stop with the irrelevant gish gallop already?
So no, Richards isn't ascending through dimensional planes(like literally the context of the comic says otherwise), he blatantly states that the universe has become a vast kaleidoscope of light and sound, right before he entered the Crossroads. The things that you see(those spheres) is a kaleidoscope(in this context, the limitless dimensions/universes that Richards is talking about).
Not only did you failed to prove anything, you have just written Universes as synonymous to dimensions on your own will with no valid arguments to back it up
And uh no, I didn't edit it.
Fair enough, it's not like I am accusing that you did anyways. I just said I haven't scrolled up and checked if you did
Dimensions mostly refer to universes, one needs to prove in context that they are referring to dimensional planes.
Which has been already done with Reed's statement, it is you who has to prove otherwise, which you have failed to do miserably, and have just tried to waste the time or everyone here by typing the context of the incident that again doesn't debunks what Hyku said earlier
Did you actually read the scans that I posted?
Several months ago, lol. And they prove nothing as they are about the 'Crossroads' which is a whole different thing
Yeah but that doesn't prove that the "limitless dimensions" are dimensional planes especially when basic wording, context of the story and other comics says otherwise.
And you haven't proven so other than stating the simple story of the comic, buddy
And I love how you didn't refute anything
Why do I need to when you didn't debunked even a bit of what Hyku or Seed said?
just called the burden proof of me(which is illogical when I provided scans about my claims when you asked for it), and also on how ironic your claim was, "ignorance of the context" when you, yourself didn't understand the context.
Gosh you are actually that poor at comprehending simple arguments? You're nauseating at this point. Lemme make this easier
We do know that Crossroads and Crossroads of Infinity are different by now, as the latter exists at the edge of sub space and not in a magical realm like the former. Sub space is the region which allows for faster than light travel, and is the same as Hyper space which encompasses higher dimensions. In case you want evidence for Hyper space=Sub space, here it is
Now stop being so goddamn ignorant for once and start making some sense
@Unknown
Literally those dimensions just refer to universes, this has been proven in many different comics.
And has been proven otherwise as well, depending on the context. Also, stick to what has been stated in the Reed scan
The Crossroads is merely an interdimensional nexus that connects all infinite dimensions(universes in context).
You do know Crossroads and 'Crossroads of Infinity' are two different things? Crossroads is this while Crossroads to Infinity is this.
In context, Richards said that to the beings(Galactus, Silver Surfer and the Watcher) that have mastered the space-time principle which is the ability to speed faster than light, to any part of the universe. In that current time, Humanity has no defence against an ftl attack, so for the safety of Humanity, Richards said that man too must break the same barrier.
Okay and what does that proves? I know the context and I have read the comic long ass time ago (as the scan I uploaded on Imgur implies)
He created a machine that makes him go to the sub-space, the sub-space is a region of space where all things are negative while matter is positive. After breaking the dimensional barrier, he was able to see a 4th dimensional universe, and things are moving faster than light
Can you please stop with the irrelevant gish gallop already?
So no, Richards isn't ascending through dimensional planes(like literally the context of the comic says otherwise), he blatantly states that the universe has become a vast kaleidoscope of light and sound, right before he entered the Crossroads. The things that you see(those spheres) is a kaleidoscope(in this context, the limitless dimensions/universes that Richards is talking about).
Not only did you failed to prove anything, you have just written Universes as synonymous to dimensions on your own will with no valid arguments to back it up
And uh no, I didn't edit it.
Fair enough, it's not like I am accusing that you did anyways. I just said I haven't scrolled up and checked if you did
Dimensions mostly refer to universes, one needs to prove in context that they are referring to dimensional planes.
Which has been already done with Reed's statement, it is you who has to prove otherwise, which you have failed to do miserably, and have just tried to waste the time or everyone here by typing the context of the incident that again doesn't debunks what Hyku said earlier
Did you actually read the scans that I posted?
Several months ago, lol. And they prove nothing as they are about the 'Crossroads' which is a whole different thing
Yeah but that doesn't prove that the "limitless dimensions" are dimensional planes especially when basic wording, context of the story and other comics says otherwise.
And you haven't proven so other than stating the simple story of the comic, buddy
And I love how you didn't refute anything
Why do I need to when you didn't debunked even a bit of what Hyku or Seed said?
just called the burden proof of me(which is illogical when I provided scans about my claims when you asked for it), and also on how ironic your claim was, "ignorance of the context" when you, yourself didn't understand the context.
Gosh you are actually that poor at comprehending simple arguments? You're nauseating at this point. Lemme make this easier
We do know that Crossroads and Crossroads of Infinity are different by now, as the latter exists at the edge of sub space and not in a magical realm like the former. Sub space is the region which allows for faster than light travel, and is the same as Hyper space which encompasses higher dimensions. In case you want evidence for Hyper space=Sub space, here it is
Now stop being so goddamn ignorant for once and start making some sense
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@Shivanash
(And has been proven otherwise as well, depending on the context. Also, stick to what has been stated in the Reed scan)
-No, the only thing that Reed said regarding about dimensional planes without a sheer doubt is the 4-D universe that he saw and the dimensional barrier. Literally before what he reached the Crossroads, he described as the universe as being a vast kaleidoscope which are the things that Reed saw when he reached the Crossroads and that is what he was referring to as the "limitless dimensions/universes"
(You do know Crossroads and 'Crossroads of Infinity' are two different things? Crossroads is this while Crossroads to Infinity is this.)
-No, it's literally the same thing, the only thing that changed was the naming. The Crossroads of Infinity is a world of limitless dimensions/universes and the junction/link to everywhere. The Crossroads is the connector to infinite realities/dimensions/universes. Literally the nature of existence is the same. You can't even find a scan of Reed saying that it's an infinite dimensional structure because it isn't. All I see about people is misunderstanding the context and taking the scan out of context.
(Okay and what does that proves? I know the context and I have read the comic long ass time ago (as the scan I uploaded on Imgur implies), Can you please stop with the irrelevant gish gallop already.)
-This proves that in context(which I doubt you understand) that Reed isn't ascending through layers of existence(like going through dimensional planes). He is merely going to the sub-space(a region of space) where the Crossroads is located.
(Not only did you failed to prove anything, you have just written Universes as synonymous to dimensions on your own will with no valid arguments to back it up)
-Uh no, Dimensions refer to parallel universes, realities, pocket dimensions, and universes with different laws. This definition is from Marvel itself and they have used it like most of the times. In order for a structure to mean a dimensional plane, it needs to be proven in context. Which I repeatedly proven, that the "world of limitless dimensions" using as High 1-B Marvel is a headcanon and misinterpretation of the scan.
(Several months ago, lol. And they prove nothing as they are about the 'Crossroads' which is a whole different thing)
-Uh no, they are the same as I have proven earlier. If you want more proof then read this https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-319?id=27026 and a recent one, this as well https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-2018/Issue-1?id=137981 . Now what does these two comics have in common? They mention the Crossroads of Infinity and one described it as a pathway to every place in existence meanwhile Dr. Doom proved the dimensions in the Crossroads of Infinity as merely universes/realities when he went through it.
(And you haven't proven so other than stating the simple story of the comic, buddy)
-Except I did, it's not my job to make you accept it because apparently you can't understand basic context and wording, buddy.
(Why do I need to when you didn't debunked even a bit of what Hyku or Seed said?)
-Except I already did, here's the last time that I will reiterate it. Hyuku said that "what's stopping the Crossroads from connecting every universe and dimensional plane?" I already answered it in my earlier comments but oh well. The reason why it doesn't connect every dimensional planes because it wasn't referred to be in the case. "World of limitless dimensions" translates to a world of limitless universes/realities, this has been proven in many comic of its appearances. It's merely an interdimensional intersection that exists in the Negative Zone(Sub-Space), lies at the nexus of all realities and connects every world/realities/universes/realms.
(Gosh you are actually that poor at comprehending simple arguments? You're nauseating at this point. Lemme make this easier We do know that Crossroads and Crossroads of Infinity are different by now, as the latter exists at the edge of sub space and not in a magical realm like the former. Sub space is the region which allows for faster than light travel, and is the same as Hyper space which encompasses higher dimensions. In case you want evidence for Hyper space=Sub space, here it is)
No, they are the same, there are literally multiple evidences to this. Crossroads of Infinity=The Crossroads. The Crossroads isn't a magical realm tho, it's an interdimensional realm that exists somewhere in space and time. It didn't say that the Hyperspace encompasses all higher dimensions(to an infinite higher dimensional space), it says "one of the higher dimensions of hyperspace" and it doesn't refer to dimensional planes but realms. It was literally stated in the previous issue, dimensions and realms are interchangeable in this part of the comic. Hyperspace is also known as the sub-space, only this part is true. https://imgur.com/gallery/hukr7sQ
No offence but it would seem that taking stuffs out of your context is your hobby, I already expected that to be the case.
(Now stop being so goddamn ignorant for once and start making some sense)
-Are you talking about yourself because that would be the case here, I have multiple evidences from multiple sources that supports my claims, explained the scan in context. Meanwhile, you didn't refute anything then pulls an 'out of context' scan, using headcanon like "the Crossroads is a magical realm". Gee I wonder who's the one being ignorant here and doesn't make any sense?ƒñö
(And has been proven otherwise as well, depending on the context. Also, stick to what has been stated in the Reed scan)
-No, the only thing that Reed said regarding about dimensional planes without a sheer doubt is the 4-D universe that he saw and the dimensional barrier. Literally before what he reached the Crossroads, he described as the universe as being a vast kaleidoscope which are the things that Reed saw when he reached the Crossroads and that is what he was referring to as the "limitless dimensions/universes"
(You do know Crossroads and 'Crossroads of Infinity' are two different things? Crossroads is this while Crossroads to Infinity is this.)
-No, it's literally the same thing, the only thing that changed was the naming. The Crossroads of Infinity is a world of limitless dimensions/universes and the junction/link to everywhere. The Crossroads is the connector to infinite realities/dimensions/universes. Literally the nature of existence is the same. You can't even find a scan of Reed saying that it's an infinite dimensional structure because it isn't. All I see about people is misunderstanding the context and taking the scan out of context.
(Okay and what does that proves? I know the context and I have read the comic long ass time ago (as the scan I uploaded on Imgur implies), Can you please stop with the irrelevant gish gallop already.)
-This proves that in context(which I doubt you understand) that Reed isn't ascending through layers of existence(like going through dimensional planes). He is merely going to the sub-space(a region of space) where the Crossroads is located.
(Not only did you failed to prove anything, you have just written Universes as synonymous to dimensions on your own will with no valid arguments to back it up)
-Uh no, Dimensions refer to parallel universes, realities, pocket dimensions, and universes with different laws. This definition is from Marvel itself and they have used it like most of the times. In order for a structure to mean a dimensional plane, it needs to be proven in context. Which I repeatedly proven, that the "world of limitless dimensions" using as High 1-B Marvel is a headcanon and misinterpretation of the scan.
(Several months ago, lol. And they prove nothing as they are about the 'Crossroads' which is a whole different thing)
-Uh no, they are the same as I have proven earlier. If you want more proof then read this https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-319?id=27026 and a recent one, this as well https://***************.to/Comic/Fantastic-Four-2018/Issue-1?id=137981 . Now what does these two comics have in common? They mention the Crossroads of Infinity and one described it as a pathway to every place in existence meanwhile Dr. Doom proved the dimensions in the Crossroads of Infinity as merely universes/realities when he went through it.
(And you haven't proven so other than stating the simple story of the comic, buddy)
-Except I did, it's not my job to make you accept it because apparently you can't understand basic context and wording, buddy.
(Why do I need to when you didn't debunked even a bit of what Hyku or Seed said?)
-Except I already did, here's the last time that I will reiterate it. Hyuku said that "what's stopping the Crossroads from connecting every universe and dimensional plane?" I already answered it in my earlier comments but oh well. The reason why it doesn't connect every dimensional planes because it wasn't referred to be in the case. "World of limitless dimensions" translates to a world of limitless universes/realities, this has been proven in many comic of its appearances. It's merely an interdimensional intersection that exists in the Negative Zone(Sub-Space), lies at the nexus of all realities and connects every world/realities/universes/realms.
(Gosh you are actually that poor at comprehending simple arguments? You're nauseating at this point. Lemme make this easier We do know that Crossroads and Crossroads of Infinity are different by now, as the latter exists at the edge of sub space and not in a magical realm like the former. Sub space is the region which allows for faster than light travel, and is the same as Hyper space which encompasses higher dimensions. In case you want evidence for Hyper space=Sub space, here it is)
No, they are the same, there are literally multiple evidences to this. Crossroads of Infinity=The Crossroads. The Crossroads isn't a magical realm tho, it's an interdimensional realm that exists somewhere in space and time. It didn't say that the Hyperspace encompasses all higher dimensions(to an infinite higher dimensional space), it says "one of the higher dimensions of hyperspace" and it doesn't refer to dimensional planes but realms. It was literally stated in the previous issue, dimensions and realms are interchangeable in this part of the comic. Hyperspace is also known as the sub-space, only this part is true. https://imgur.com/gallery/hukr7sQ
No offence but it would seem that taking stuffs out of your context is your hobby, I already expected that to be the case.
(Now stop being so goddamn ignorant for once and start making some sense)
-Are you talking about yourself because that would be the case here, I have multiple evidences from multiple sources that supports my claims, explained the scan in context. Meanwhile, you didn't refute anything then pulls an 'out of context' scan, using headcanon like "the Crossroads is a magical realm". Gee I wonder who's the one being ignorant here and doesn't make any sense?ƒñö
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That aside, I know there are scans of Marvel multiverse being High 1-B. Like planes of existence in a transfinite level, etc. What I wanna know is does all of this (High 1-B multiverse) happened before and/or during the time of Secret Wars.
If someone would send a scan of Marvel multiverse being High 1-B before and/or during the events of Secret Wars. Can you also cite the source of the scan(the volume and issue no.)
If someone would send a scan of Marvel multiverse being High 1-B before and/or during the events of Secret Wars. Can you also cite the source of the scan(the volume and issue no.)
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I'm perfectly calm and forgive me if I wasn't polite, I just exchanged the favor when Shivansh did.
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Nearly forgot this thing existed
@Unknown
"No, the only thing that Reed said regarding about dimensional planes without a sheer doubt is the 4-D universe that he saw and the dimensional barrier."
Which proves he was talking about dimensions of geometry
"Literally before what he reached the Crossroads, he described as the universe as being a vast kaleidoscope which are the things that Reed saw when he reached the Crossroads and that is what he was referring to as the "limitless dimensions/universes""
How does that proves anything? Stop with that Ad Nauseum because you're just making a fool out of yourself
"No, it's literally the same thing, the only thing that changed was the naming"
Because you said so? The crossroads is a magical realm where Hulk and X-Foes can chill and fight (hell Bruce Banner could survive) while Crossroads of Infinity is at the farthest cosmic edge of Sub-Space where Reed needed the cosmonaut suit to even get close
"Literally the nature of existence is the same"
No it's not just because you say 'literally' and your repetitive arguments wouldn't get you anywhere
"You can't even find a scan of Reed saying that it's an infinite dimensional structure because it isn't"
Almost no fictional verse directly says "hey there, this right here is legit infinite dimensional or beyond dimensional stuff and you can rate it as High 1-B or whatever you want. Have a nice day!!" You have to read and interpret the statements in context and so far you comprehension aptitude has been proven to be beyond pathetic
"This proves that in context(which I doubt you understand) that Reed isn't ascending through layers of existence(like going through dimensional planes)"
You appear to lack basic secondary school education. Just because Sub-Space helps you travel faster than light, doesn't debunks that in context, Reed used the term 'dimension' as what it means in geometry, not referring to 'ordinary universes'
"Uh no, they are the same as I have proven earlier. If you want more proof then read this"
I have read them long ago, like i said before in case you're too dumb to even understand that. Both the comics talk about Crossroads of Infinity that exists at the edge of Sub-Space, not the magic realm where Hulk was trapped
"meanwhile Dr. Doom proved the dimensions in the Crossroads of Infinity as merely universes/realities when he went through it.
Where does it says it only grants access to 'realities'. You do know realities or Universes are a part of 'the everything' that Crossroads is a juncture to?
"Except I did, it's not my job to make you accept it because apparently you can't understand basic context and wording, buddy"
You didn't do anything but proving that your intellectual standards are lower than my cousin who is a KG student right now ;(
"The reason why it doesn't connect every dimensional planes because it wasn't referred to be in the case"
Reed talks about geometric dimensions, he refers to the place as 'limitless dimensions' and so that ends the story, you can gish gallop all you want and it wouldn't get your dumbass anywhere
"It didn't say that the Hyperspace encompasses all higher dimensions(to an infinite higher dimensional space"
It proves that the dimensions used in context of Hyperspace are higher geometric and at the end is Crossroads of INFINITY, that is infinite dimensional
"it says "one of the higher dimensions of hyperspace" and it doesn't refer to dimensional planes but realms. . It was literally stated in the previous issue, dimensions and realms are interchangeable in this part of the comic. Hyperspace is also known as the sub-space, only this part is true."
You are probably the dumbest person I have debated in past few months. It says 'higher realms' which only proves my point. Higher dimensions can be anything from higher universes to realms to planes of existence, for god's sake stop with that pseudo intellectual ignorant attitude of yours
"No offence but it would seem that taking stuffs out of your context is your hobby, I already expected that to be the case"
Why would lame arguments thrown by someone with such abnormally low IQ like yourself gonna offend me at all? So no need for the 'no offense' and believe me, I have dealt with walls like you in the past as well so it's going to be a cakewalk for me
"Are you talking about yourself because that would be the case here"
No it's you but your pathetic comprehension wouldn't allow you to understand that
"I have multiple evidences from multiple sources that supports my claims, explained the scan in context"
You have nothing but delusional hallucinations and are just trying to waste time which i think you've got plenty of
"Meanwhile, you didn't refute anything then pulls an 'out of context' scan, using headcanon like "the Crossroads is a magical realm".
It was used by Doctor Strange first to remove Banner from earth when he lost control, and was referred to as a special place under Strange's knowledge. Which is why I called it a magical realm. You can call it whatever you want, it is just different from the Crossroads at Sub-Space and that is what matters
"Gee I wonder who's the one being ignorant here and doesn't make any sense?"
That's right, it's YOU
PS- Expect late replies because I am busy with college
@Unknown
"No, the only thing that Reed said regarding about dimensional planes without a sheer doubt is the 4-D universe that he saw and the dimensional barrier."
Which proves he was talking about dimensions of geometry
"Literally before what he reached the Crossroads, he described as the universe as being a vast kaleidoscope which are the things that Reed saw when he reached the Crossroads and that is what he was referring to as the "limitless dimensions/universes""
How does that proves anything? Stop with that Ad Nauseum because you're just making a fool out of yourself
"No, it's literally the same thing, the only thing that changed was the naming"
Because you said so? The crossroads is a magical realm where Hulk and X-Foes can chill and fight (hell Bruce Banner could survive) while Crossroads of Infinity is at the farthest cosmic edge of Sub-Space where Reed needed the cosmonaut suit to even get close
"Literally the nature of existence is the same"
No it's not just because you say 'literally' and your repetitive arguments wouldn't get you anywhere
"You can't even find a scan of Reed saying that it's an infinite dimensional structure because it isn't"
Almost no fictional verse directly says "hey there, this right here is legit infinite dimensional or beyond dimensional stuff and you can rate it as High 1-B or whatever you want. Have a nice day!!" You have to read and interpret the statements in context and so far you comprehension aptitude has been proven to be beyond pathetic
"This proves that in context(which I doubt you understand) that Reed isn't ascending through layers of existence(like going through dimensional planes)"
You appear to lack basic secondary school education. Just because Sub-Space helps you travel faster than light, doesn't debunks that in context, Reed used the term 'dimension' as what it means in geometry, not referring to 'ordinary universes'
"Uh no, they are the same as I have proven earlier. If you want more proof then read this"
I have read them long ago, like i said before in case you're too dumb to even understand that. Both the comics talk about Crossroads of Infinity that exists at the edge of Sub-Space, not the magic realm where Hulk was trapped
"meanwhile Dr. Doom proved the dimensions in the Crossroads of Infinity as merely universes/realities when he went through it.
Where does it says it only grants access to 'realities'. You do know realities or Universes are a part of 'the everything' that Crossroads is a juncture to?
"Except I did, it's not my job to make you accept it because apparently you can't understand basic context and wording, buddy"
You didn't do anything but proving that your intellectual standards are lower than my cousin who is a KG student right now ;(
"The reason why it doesn't connect every dimensional planes because it wasn't referred to be in the case"
Reed talks about geometric dimensions, he refers to the place as 'limitless dimensions' and so that ends the story, you can gish gallop all you want and it wouldn't get your dumbass anywhere
"It didn't say that the Hyperspace encompasses all higher dimensions(to an infinite higher dimensional space"
It proves that the dimensions used in context of Hyperspace are higher geometric and at the end is Crossroads of INFINITY, that is infinite dimensional
"it says "one of the higher dimensions of hyperspace" and it doesn't refer to dimensional planes but realms. . It was literally stated in the previous issue, dimensions and realms are interchangeable in this part of the comic. Hyperspace is also known as the sub-space, only this part is true."
You are probably the dumbest person I have debated in past few months. It says 'higher realms' which only proves my point. Higher dimensions can be anything from higher universes to realms to planes of existence, for god's sake stop with that pseudo intellectual ignorant attitude of yours
"No offence but it would seem that taking stuffs out of your context is your hobby, I already expected that to be the case"
Why would lame arguments thrown by someone with such abnormally low IQ like yourself gonna offend me at all? So no need for the 'no offense' and believe me, I have dealt with walls like you in the past as well so it's going to be a cakewalk for me
"Are you talking about yourself because that would be the case here"
No it's you but your pathetic comprehension wouldn't allow you to understand that
"I have multiple evidences from multiple sources that supports my claims, explained the scan in context"
You have nothing but delusional hallucinations and are just trying to waste time which i think you've got plenty of
"Meanwhile, you didn't refute anything then pulls an 'out of context' scan, using headcanon like "the Crossroads is a magical realm".
It was used by Doctor Strange first to remove Banner from earth when he lost control, and was referred to as a special place under Strange's knowledge. Which is why I called it a magical realm. You can call it whatever you want, it is just different from the Crossroads at Sub-Space and that is what matters
"Gee I wonder who's the one being ignorant here and doesn't make any sense?"
That's right, it's YOU
PS- Expect late replies because I am busy with college
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This is in the last bit of my paragraph
@Shivansh
@Which proves he was talking about dimensions of geometry
- Yes he was in the first bit but not the "limitless dimensions" one. I've already supported this a lot of times. But for your sake I'm going to say it again I think for the last time. It was explicitly stated that the universe has become a kaleidoscope which are the things that Reeds saw when he witnessed the Crossroads, and the other appearances of the Crossroads(Doctor Doom, Hulk, etc) supports the fact that they are merely alien dimensions/universes/realities. No mention or even implication of High 1-B ever appeared again.
@How does that proves anything? Stop with that Ad Nauseum because you're just making a fool out of yourself
- It proves that in context, the limitless dimensions equate to universes as they look like the Kaleidoscope(which is what Reeds is equating to a universe). The fact that it has been repeated does not refute it all.
- You have not done anything but falsely claim that there are higher dimension spaces in the Negative Zone(the actual comic means it as higher realms), have not refute anything I claimed but just blindly rejects it, repeats stuffs all over again.
@Because you said so? The crossroads is a magical realm where Hulk and X-Foes can chill and fight (hell Bruce Banner could survive) while Crossroads of Infinity is at the farthest cosmic edge of Sub-Space where Reed needed the cosmonaut suit to even get close
- Uh no, the comic said so. Their nature and purpose of existence is the same, all the thing that changed was the name. Crossroads was never referred to as a magical realm though you're literally making up that claim just to benift yourself. I mean you do know that even in the slightest bit of chance that they are seperate realms, that still does not prove that the Crossroads of Infinity is a High 1-B structure as the appearances of it(recent FF, and Doctor Doom visiting Beyonder) in many comics says otherwise and that mention of limitless dimensions just equates to universes. Just like as it had always been for most of the times.
@No it's not just because you say 'literally' and your repetitive arguments wouldn't get you anywhere
- It is though, if anything's different that would be the location. Their nature are perfectly the same. It is repetitive, yes but you seem unable to refute it.
@Almost no fictional verse directly says "hey there, this right here is legit infinite dimensional or beyond dimensional stuff and you can rate it as High 1-B or whatever you want. Have a nice day!!" You have to read and interpret the statements in context and so far you comprehension aptitude has been proven to be beyond pathetic
- Uh no. Most verses that have High 1-B multiverse/structure explicitly states and explains it. Lovecraft for example, 90's Marvel up to current for example, The Dark Tower for example, etc. I mean the few out of many other verses that I mentioned actually explains it and proves that it's not a headcanon to say they are dimensional planes, and that the dimensions/layers of existence they talk about aren't universes/realms.
- If that is how you refute things then I don't know what to say. What you said here is obvious but it does not benift your argument at all. As context and other appearances of the Crossroads of Infinity says otherwise.
@You appear to lack basic secondary school education. Just because Sub-Space helps you travel faster than light, doesn't debunks that in context, Reed used the term 'dimension' as what it means in geometry, not referring to 'ordinary universes'
- Except you don't understand that he talks dimensions(geometry) only about the 4th dimensional universe that he saw, and as after that he says all about the universe looking like a kaleidoscope which is literally the "limitless dimensions" that he saw, he implied that they are universes.
- More over, it's not ordinary universes contained within the Crossroads of Infinity. It's a bunch of alien dimensions(alien because it has different law of physics/reality) like the one in Doom. It states dimensions as reference to all universes not just ordinary ones. Inb4 "Who said that you?" Uh no, it has been proven in the comics.
@I have read them long ago, like i said before in case you're too dumb to even understand that. Both the comics talk about Crossroads of Infinity that exists at the edge of Sub-Space, not the magic realm where Hulk was trapped
- It's not a magical realm though and yes the COI exists at the sub-space acting as thd connector to every universes/realities exactly what the Crossroads is(minus the location of the realm). And you're treating as if the Crossroads is beneath the COI whereas they have the same value(considering they are seperate, as you say) as the Crossroads exists at the nexus of realities serving as one out of the many layers of the multiverse.
@Where does it says it only grants access to 'realities'. You do know realities or Universes are a part of 'the everything' that Crossroads is a juncture to?
They are part of the everything but you do know that the "everything"(totality/multiverse) in Marvel at the time has no mentions of an High 1-B multiverse? And also, it didn't even say "juncture to everything" just like what you claimed. It was mentioned as "juncture to everywhere". The latest comic where it appeared supports my claim(a pathway to every place in existence) and all of the other appearances of it supports it.
@You didn't do anything but proving that your intellectual standards are lower than my cousin who is a KG student right now ;(
- Ad hominem seems to be your hobby, and you're making yourself look worse, I actually stopped because Ant told me.
@Reed talks about geometric dimensions, he refers to the place as 'limitless dimensions' and so that ends the story, you can gish gallop all you want and it wouldn't get your dumbass anywhere
- Simply saying that doesn't refute my argument. The only part where he says dimensional planes is the 4-D universe that he saw. Literally the "world of limitless dimensions" wasn't reiterated in other comics of its appearances, and it makes more sense to interpret as "world of limitless universes" because Reeds said that the universe has become a kaleidoscope(literally the things that we see on panel), definition of the official word in Marvel says so, other comics at the time says dimensions=universes.
- The only thing where it would be dimensions =/= universes, is that if it was supported by context. Like Beyonder being mentioned as an infinite dimensional entity, etc.
@It proves that the dimensions used in context of Hyperspace are higher geometric and at the end is Crossroads of INFINITY, that is infinite dimensional
- They are not even dimensional planes. Literally the comic where you got the scan from debunks you. What it meant by a higher dimension= higher reality. Uh, where was it mentioned or even implied that it was infinite dimensional?
@You are probably the dumbest person I have debated in past few months. It says 'higher realms' which only proves my point. Higher dimensions can be anything from higher universes to realms to planes of existence, for god's sake stop with that pseudo intellectual ignorant attitude of yours
- Uh no, higher realms=/= higher dimensional plane. Unless you wanna say Asgard is a higher dimensional plane, there are other verses that have a higher realm but isn't necessary a higher dimension. The higher dimensions of the hyperspace isn't actual geometric dimensional planes but just a higher realm.
@You have nothing but delusional hallucinations and are just trying to waste time which i think you've got plenty of
- Ad Hominem(2)
@It was used by Doctor Strange first to remove Banner from earth when he lost control, and was referred to as a special place under Strange's knowledge. Which is why I called it a magical realm. You can call it whatever you want, it is just different from the Crossroads at Sub-Space and that is what matters
- Except it wasn't a magical realm. The fact that Doctor Strange can BFR hulk into the Crossroads doesn't mean it's a magical realm. I concede about the part where they are the exactly the same. Not because of what you said but because I found an official source that says they are the seperate but maybe connected. That aside, the Crossroads isn't any less significant than the Crossroads of Infinity. Their purpose of existence remains the same, one is located at the sub-space(an interdimensional space) serves as the juncture to every universes, one is located at the nexus of realities and serves as interdimensional connector to every place in existence.
The scans are the same as they support my argument. The scans that are new is this: https://imgur.com/gallery/TxFfEvD
Crossroads and Crossroads of Infinity having the same purpose of existence: https://imgur.com/gallery/177pHzx https://imgur.com/gallery/LPgZ5lt
There's one more appearance of the Crossroads of Infinity and that would be in Silver Surfer(1987) #16 yet it wasn't mentioned as one. For a realm/structure to be classified as High 1-B, it needs to be briefly explained in context and not just headcanon where it's obviously contradicted by its other appearances in other comics. Crossroads of Infinity is merely talking about dimensions in context to universes. The repetitive argument of geometric dimensions only apply to the 4-D universe that Reed saw(like how it is in other verses), not the COI as he explicitly said in the message bubble before the panel about it.
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I agree with some traces of this. Literally 99% of the time Marvel talks about "infinite dimensions", it is meant to be read as "infinite parallel realities/universes", yet I have seen quite a few profiles being inflated via "infinite dimension" statements that, in-context, clearly refer to no more than universes.
Both the Beyonder and the Living Tribunal have "several 1-A statements", relative to "they are beyond time, space and dimensions" that are, to put it lightly, blatantly wanked and out of context.
Every single piece of evidence for 1-A in the Beyonder's profile suffers from this. No exceptions. Literally the only thing ever remotely close to 1-A the Beyonder ever had in his history was the shared statement of him and the Molecule Man being the most powerful beings in all of creation, putting them above Oblivion. I'm not joking here. That's all they ever had in terms of being 1-A.
Both the Beyonder and the Living Tribunal have "several 1-A statements", relative to "they are beyond time, space and dimensions" that are, to put it lightly, blatantly wanked and out of context.
Every single piece of evidence for 1-A in the Beyonder's profile suffers from this. No exceptions. Literally the only thing ever remotely close to 1-A the Beyonder ever had in his history was the shared statement of him and the Molecule Man being the most powerful beings in all of creation, putting them above Oblivion. I'm not joking here. That's all they ever had in terms of being 1-A.
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@Kepekley23
Well, downgrading Marvel would be an extremely controversial action, that would cause lots of hatred and controversy directed towards this community. If you wish to do so, you would need to build a very solid case for it, and also be prepared for a very long and tiresome discussion, that would have to be linked to in the discussion rules page to avoid neverending repetition.
Well, downgrading Marvel would be an extremely controversial action, that would cause lots of hatred and controversy directed towards this community. If you wish to do so, you would need to build a very solid case for it, and also be prepared for a very long and tiresome discussion, that would have to be linked to in the discussion rules page to avoid neverending repetition.
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I am planning a downgrade thread for TLT and the Beyonder, specifically, not to the High 1-Bs like Multi-Eternity.
I am skeptical of that, considering the community's had them as their former solid High 1-B for years prior to their upgrades without any wars.
I am skeptical of that, considering the community's had them as their former solid High 1-B for years prior to their upgrades without any wars.
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@Ant
This "downgrade" will only affect Pre-Retcon Beyonder as far as I'm aware of. I mean you did conclude in my previous thread that the cosmology was indeed different before and during the time of Secret Wars. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3106814
To further add about the "infinite adjacent dimensions" being universes(even though if one would read it in context, they'll know it refers to universes/realms). The two mightiest beings in all existence clash---- and every creature on every planet in every dimension feels their multiversal tremors born of their fury and in the scan it shows what the statement said. Every creature on every planet does feel the tremors from their battle and it was in every dimension and in the background one could see the Microverse(a dimension that exists within atoms), and if one would read it in context, it refers to universes/realms.
@Kep
I disagree about Oblivion being part of the story, it was mentioned "all existence". Oblivion isn't part from existence, he's the antithesis of it. The only possible way that Beyonder and MM could be above Oblivion without him being part of the story is that if LT is above Oblivion. The thing is LT wasn't above Oblivion at the time, his bio doesn't state it and neither was he implied or stated to be above Oblivion. This was fixed in the 90's as the cosmology was expaned, megaverse/omniverse was explained, infinite higher dimensions was explained, etc and the updated bio of LT is above Oblivion. The main point of this is that LT in Secret Wars is not above Oblivion, thus it can't be scaled. I personally digress about this topic as I'm much more invested in the cosmology.
Original bio of TLT From Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol 2 7(1986)
Updated bio of TLT From All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol 1 6(2006)
This "downgrade" will only affect Pre-Retcon Beyonder as far as I'm aware of. I mean you did conclude in my previous thread that the cosmology was indeed different before and during the time of Secret Wars. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3106814
To further add about the "infinite adjacent dimensions" being universes(even though if one would read it in context, they'll know it refers to universes/realms). The two mightiest beings in all existence clash---- and every creature on every planet in every dimension feels their multiversal tremors born of their fury and in the scan it shows what the statement said. Every creature on every planet does feel the tremors from their battle and it was in every dimension and in the background one could see the Microverse(a dimension that exists within atoms), and if one would read it in context, it refers to universes/realms.
@Kep
I disagree about Oblivion being part of the story, it was mentioned "all existence". Oblivion isn't part from existence, he's the antithesis of it. The only possible way that Beyonder and MM could be above Oblivion without him being part of the story is that if LT is above Oblivion. The thing is LT wasn't above Oblivion at the time, his bio doesn't state it and neither was he implied or stated to be above Oblivion. This was fixed in the 90's as the cosmology was expaned, megaverse/omniverse was explained, infinite higher dimensions was explained, etc and the updated bio of LT is above Oblivion. The main point of this is that LT in Secret Wars is not above Oblivion, thus it can't be scaled. I personally digress about this topic as I'm much more invested in the cosmology.
Original bio of TLT From Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol 2 7(1986)
Updated bio of TLT From All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol 1 6(2006)
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@Unknown
Can't believe i got time for this lol. Anyways you're still not worth much time so imma just address the necessary arguments without quoting you (and thus incrementing the amount of cancer in this thread, lol)
1. Just because you say so? Because all you did was 'state' that he doesn't refers to them as geometric dimensions
2. He is only referring to his Universe as a 'Kaliedoscope'. Then he goes beyond that and finds the Crossroads of Infinity
3. Ironical because it's you who did that. I don't need to prove shit regarding N-zone because Sub-Space is all that matters and i have already proven stuff regarding that
4. The nature of Nexus of all realities, M'Kraan Crystal and Web of Destiny etc. is also same as Crossroads of Infinity, does it makes them the same damn thing? It does not so please bring up the standard of your arguments
5. Already proven why it is 'infinite-dimensional' and how the dimensions when it comes to Crossroads of Infinity are 'geometric'
6. I am well aware of those verses, and no they do not, unless you can prove it though
7. I said so because you have proven to be a rookie when it comes to comprehending context
8. Already addressed the whole 'limitless dimensions' thing from Reed refers to geometric dimensions
9. I know there are 'alien dimensions' as well and that proves absolutely nothing on your part just like the rest of your gibberish
10. Idek what you are trying to articulate here given the hilarious irrelevance of the argument to anything we are discussing
11. The limitless dimensions was a reference to High 1-B structure and WHAT THE ACTUAL **** ARE YOU SMOKING MAN xD what is the difference between 'Junction to everywhere' and 'Junction to everything'
12. Alright i will try to keep it 'calm as well'
13. Already addressed above
14. Asgard has been referred as higher dimensional plane, 'beyond the concept of space and time' as well. Those are just hyperbole. Stick to the Hyperstorm comic because he clearly describes Hyperspace as encompassing 'higher dimensions'. There is another comic in which Susan destroys Exitar's brain (look it up on Exitar's Marvel Wiki page) which further corroborates my claim regarding Hyperspace's dimensions
15. You can call it whatever you want like i said before, and you ignored it once again. But if you agree they are different then idc. Idk what you're trying to prove with the help of those scans because you have already shown them to me before and they don't prove anything
Can't believe i got time for this lol. Anyways you're still not worth much time so imma just address the necessary arguments without quoting you (and thus incrementing the amount of cancer in this thread, lol)
1. Just because you say so? Because all you did was 'state' that he doesn't refers to them as geometric dimensions
2. He is only referring to his Universe as a 'Kaliedoscope'. Then he goes beyond that and finds the Crossroads of Infinity
3. Ironical because it's you who did that. I don't need to prove shit regarding N-zone because Sub-Space is all that matters and i have already proven stuff regarding that
4. The nature of Nexus of all realities, M'Kraan Crystal and Web of Destiny etc. is also same as Crossroads of Infinity, does it makes them the same damn thing? It does not so please bring up the standard of your arguments
5. Already proven why it is 'infinite-dimensional' and how the dimensions when it comes to Crossroads of Infinity are 'geometric'
6. I am well aware of those verses, and no they do not, unless you can prove it though
7. I said so because you have proven to be a rookie when it comes to comprehending context
8. Already addressed the whole 'limitless dimensions' thing from Reed refers to geometric dimensions
9. I know there are 'alien dimensions' as well and that proves absolutely nothing on your part just like the rest of your gibberish
10. Idek what you are trying to articulate here given the hilarious irrelevance of the argument to anything we are discussing
11. The limitless dimensions was a reference to High 1-B structure and WHAT THE ACTUAL **** ARE YOU SMOKING MAN xD what is the difference between 'Junction to everywhere' and 'Junction to everything'
12. Alright i will try to keep it 'calm as well'
13. Already addressed above
14. Asgard has been referred as higher dimensional plane, 'beyond the concept of space and time' as well. Those are just hyperbole. Stick to the Hyperstorm comic because he clearly describes Hyperspace as encompassing 'higher dimensions'. There is another comic in which Susan destroys Exitar's brain (look it up on Exitar's Marvel Wiki page) which further corroborates my claim regarding Hyperspace's dimensions
15. You can call it whatever you want like i said before, and you ignored it once again. But if you agree they are different then idc. Idk what you're trying to prove with the help of those scans because you have already shown them to me before and they don't prove anything
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...My eyes, man. Paragraphs.
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why does it says '13 hours ago' to a comment that was made a few seconds ago
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