About the New Tiering System

[Onirouge]

1. So if High 1-A will be for all hierarchies and cardinal numbers, and 0 will be for characters who are "monadic totalities"... What will High 1-A+ be?

2. If a character is akin to a monadic totality but its verse is not confirmed as infinite... For example, the verse consists of only one solar system and it is not known whether the rest of the cosmology is infinite or not... In this case will the character be Tier 0?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1. So if High 1-A will be for all hierarchies and cardinal numbers, and 0 will be for characters who are "monadic totalities"... What will High 1-A+ be?

Low 1-A will be for cardinal numbers. High 1-A+ is for beings capable of actualizing all the possibilities that the monadic entity encompasses. By that, I mean they can create any world they wish, no matter how many hierarchies, realms, transcendent layers, etc there are. Any arbitrarily large worlds are something they can manipulate.

2. If a character is akin to a monadic totality but its verse is not confirmed as infinite... For example, the verse consists of only one solar system and it is not known whether the rest of the cosmology is infinite or not... In this case will the character be Tier 0?

Monadic beings beyond quantity and quality, so whether something is infinite or finite is irrelevant to them, as infinity is a type of quantity.

 

[Onirouge]

Low 1-A will be for cardinal numbers. High 1-A+ is for beings capable of actualizing all the possibilities that the monadic entity encompasses. By that, I mean they can create any world they wish, no matter how many hierarchies, realms, transcendent layers, etc there are. Any arbitrarily large worlds are something they can manipulate.

Monadic beings beyond quantity and quality, so whether something is infinite or finite is irrelevant to them, as infinity is a type of quantity.

So what will be 1-A and High 1-A ?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Baseline 1-A will be stuff like Reality > Fiction Transcendence, and things equal to it.

Finite hierarchies of R > F or cosmologies equivalent to it will also be 1-A.

An infinite hierarchy of R > F or cosmologies equivalent to it will be 1-A+.

High 1-A will be for any hierarchies or cosmologies that transcend/exceed 1-A+. All current Tier 0 Cosmologies, will likely sit somewhere within this tier.

High 1-A+ is no longer based on cosmology, they can do whatever they please to any form of cosmology, no matter their size, complexity, etc. Beings at this point can essentially go: "my cosmology is bigger than your cosmology" forever, to any infinitely high degree, so they can't really out stat one another.

Tier 0 is the monad themself, who are beyond any form of quality or quantity, and therefor even High 1-A+ which can create and destroy things of any quality or quantity, can't match them.

 

[Onirouge]

Baseline 1-A will be stuff like Reality > Fiction Transcendence, and things equal to it.

I don’t really understand... So basically, R > F transcendence will be considered beyond all cardinal numbers? So for example, let’s take a random character who sees his verse as fictional... Just because of that, he will be considered beyond the framework of current Tier 0 ?!!

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I don’t really understand... So basically, R > F transcendence will be considered beyond all cardinal numbers? So for example, let’s take a random character who sees his verse as fictional... Just because of that, he will be considered beyond the framework of current Tier 0 ?!!

Here's an example. Let's say you were an infinitely large being.

In comparison to you, Earth is quite literally infinitesimal. However, despite that fact, it still exists. It's infinitely smaller than you yes, however, its existence is not zero.

But let's increase the scope, let's you are now as large as an Aleph-0 Amount of Universes (2-A/Multiversal+). Now, in comparison to you, a planet is not even equal to a speck of dust. Once again, it's infinitesimal to you, even more so than before. However, it still exists.

We can repeat this process with every form of Aleph, and every form of Inaccessible Cardinal, however, no matter how big you become, or how grand the infinity, that planet still exists in comparison to you.

Now, let's say you are a higher being. The God and Author of an entire world that exists inside of a book. One that you are free to change with a single stroke of your pen.

In comparison to you, the world within that book is not, lower-dimensional. It's not flat, or 2D. It litterly doesn't exist. It's a product of your imagination, it's unreal, and has no influence on anything at all.

If you destroyed the 2nd Dimension, our 3rd Dimension would be affected. We would lose a dimension, despite being originally superior to the 2nd Dimension. On the other hand, if that book suddenly burned, and all memories of that world that existed inside of it were erased, nothing would change for you.

In fact, you could write that the world inside of that book is infinite. You could write that it has a multiverse in it. In fact, you could even go so far as to say it contains infinite higher dimensions, and above that is a realm as large as a Berkeley Cardinal.

However, the result is the same. It's non-existent in comparison to you, the Author, and therefore the gap between that world and you, is beyond any form of mathematical infinities. The difference between Reality and Fiction, is just that big.

 

[Onirouge]

Here's an example. Let's say you were an infinitely large being.

Now, let's say you are a higher being. The God and Author of an entire world that exists inside of a book. One that you are free to change with a single stroke of your pen.

So for example, Metaverse Enterprise Solutions from Doki Doki Litterature Club will be 1-A?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So for example, Metaverse Enterprise Solutions from Doki Doki Litterature Club will be 1-A?

No.

Since R > F is such a large jump in Tier now, it also has very tight restrictions. Wherever a Reality > Fiction Transcendence is present, the fiction question must not have the anti-feat of interacting with Reality.

By that, I mean, an MC who realizes they're in a story, can't suddenly gain the power to leap out of that story, from within the story. After all, it makes no sense that something within fiction can have the power to reach reality.

The only way the example I gave above will be deemed possible, is if the power the MC uses to escape fiction comes from the higher reality in question.

So simplified, Reality MUST ALWAYS, CONSISTENTLY be portrayed as superior to the Fiction in question, and if the Fiction manages to affect Reality without some kind of assistance from sed Reality, then it's an anti-feat and not given 1-A status.

 

[Onirouge]

@ActuallySpaceMan42 so basically:

- Low 1-A: all sets of cardinal numbers

- Baseline 1-A: true R > F transcendence

- 1-A+: Infinite hierarchy of R > F transcendence

- High 1-A: beyond the framework of R > F transcendence

- High 1-A+: all hierarchies and cosmologies beyond maths and R > F transcendence

- 0: monadic totalities

Is that correct?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Almost, your definition of High 1-A+ would just be High 1-A.

- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies.

 

[Onirouge]

Almost, your definition of High 1-A+ would just be High 1-A.

- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies.

Ho, ok. But I forgot something, what will be High 1-B+?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ho, ok. But I forgot something, what will be High 1-B+?

High 1-B+ will be structures such as Type 4 Multiverses.

 

[Onirouge]

Wait, you said:

"- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies."

How big is the gap between High 1-A and High 1-A+?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Imagine if all Cosmologies that are beyond 1-A+, so basically all Cosmologies that qualify for High 1-A, were given levels.

So in this scenario, the SCP Verse Cosmology is Level 20, and some other random Cosmology is Level 3. Both are High 1-A Cosmologies beyond 1-A+, but the SCP one is bigger, so it gets a higher level.

High 1-A+ Beings aren't stuck at a specific Level. They can create a Level 1 High 1-A Cosmology if they want, or a Level 7,000 Cosmology.

 

[Onirouge]

Imagine if all Cosmologies that are beyond 1-A+, so basically all Cosmologies that qualify for High 1-A, were given levels.

So in this scenario, the SCP Verse Cosmology is Level 20, and some other random Cosmology is Level 3. Both are High 1-A Cosmologies beyond 1-A+, but the SCP one is bigger, so it gets a higher level.

High 1-A+ Beings aren't stuck at a specific Level. They can create a Level 1 High 1-A Cosmology if they want, or a Level 7,000 Cosmology.

But wouldn’t it be the same? For exemple, if a 1-A charachter can destroy or create a 1-A realm, he's still considered 1-A like a charachter who just lives in a 1-A realm but can't affect of destroy it... Why is it different for High 1-A+?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

But wouldn’t it be the same? For exemple, if a 1-A charachter can destroy or create a 1-A realm, he's still considered 1-A like a charachter who just lives in a 1-A realm but can't affect of destroy it... Why is it different for High 1-A+?

High 1-A+ can create and destroy ANY High 1-A Cosmology/Hierarchy. They will always be superior to any High 1-A Verse because they can always exert power greater then that High 1-A Verse.

 

[Onirouge]

High 1-A+ can create and destroy ANY High 1-A Cosmology/Hierarchy. They will always be superior to any High 1-A Verse because they can always exert power greater then that High 1-A Verse.

So High 1-A+ is basically beyond the framework of High 1-A?

 

[TheTenno07]

High 1-B+ will be structures such as Type 4 Multiverses.

Wasn't it said in the ultima's thread that type 4 multiverses were low 1-A?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So High 1-A+ is basically beyond the framework of High 1-A?

Yup

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Wasn't it said in the ultima's thread that type 4 multiverses were low 1-A?

 

[TheTenno07]

I was talking about this

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I was talking about this

Oh, never mind then.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

It's due to the fact later on in the incoherent thread. Ultima decided against removing Low 1-A and decided to incorporate his idea of High 1-B+ into Low 1-A.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

High 1-B+ sound ugly.