Acaus 5 question

[AlipheeseXIV]

So I've seen a lot of people have differing (and outright objectively incorrect) opinions on how characters can obtain acaus type 5, some people I know think only tier 0 characters can have it. Which is funny since acaus 5 tends to be really overrated to some people who don't fully understand it from what I have personally seen, as...afaik at least. It is essentially just a watered down version of HDE, BDE, ND2 and various other superior omni immunity hax (unless you're tier 0). So this thread is mainly to answer a question for the sake of proving them wrong, how exactly do you obtain type 5 acaus?

From my understanding of the type 5 acaus page and shortening the explanation to a major degree, a character would obtain said ability by simply being above causality correct? As the page states that

"Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible."

Now for clarification purposes, the last part mentioning how "interacting with them normally is impossible" is something I'm not entirely sure the direct meaning behind, I'm assuming by interacting it means that the character is just above the influence of the level of causality in question? So being a higher d being would be sufficient enough? I'm not entirely sure on that part, anyways to summarize the main point.

Would a character who is for arguments sake say...6D have acaus 5 if they are immune/dimensionally superior to a 5D causality manip user?

 

[Rikimarox2]

No. You'd need a direct statement that they are unbound/superior to Causality iirc, and have a direct showing/statement that shows they can't be interacted with DUE TO being superior to Causality, not just a single statement of being unable to interact with, without any mention of causality.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

No. You'd need a direct statement that they are unbound/superior to Causality iirc, and have a direct showing/statement that shows they can't be interacted with DUE TO being superior to Causality, not just a single statement of being unable to interact with, without any mention of causality.

Well, assuming that there was indeed a statement mentioning that they exist outside causality and thus can't be interacted with. That would grant acaus 5 correct?

 

[Rikimarox2]

If there is a statement that shows they cannot be interacted with due to existing outside of causality, then yes, that would be Acausality type 5, I believe.

There were a few threads about how if there exists higher levels of causality, then just being independent of one isn't enough for type 5 and all that shtick, but I'm honestly not sure about that.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

There were a few threads about how if there exists higher levels of causality, then just being independent of one isn't enough for type 5 and all that shtick, but I'm honestly not sure about that.

That would completely contradict the ability being obtainable for characters who aren't tier 0, since obviously unless you are tier 0 there will always be a higher level of causality no? Unless it's specifically referring to the highest level of known causality on the specific verse in question so it's more of a case by case basis? Even then though wouldn't that contradict some examples of lower tier characters getting acaus type 5 by a tier 0?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

If there is a statement that shows they cannot be interacted with due to existing outside of causality, then yes, that would be Acausality type 5, I believe.

Okay, I guess I'll wait for more people to reply or double check in the powers & abilities thread or smth

 

[AlexSamDen]

That would completely contradict the ability being obtainable for characters who aren't tier 0, since obviously unless you are tier 0 there will always be a higher level of causality no? Unless it's specifically referring to the highest level of known causality on the specific verse in question so it's more of a case by case basis? Even then though wouldn't that contradict some examples of lower tier characters getting acaus type 5 by a tier 0?

No, as far as I'm conserned, casuality doesn't have dimensional levels, it is global. Aca 5 is simply "as long as it is casual, it won't work". Tier 0 immutability is a different thing, being unable to be changed at all. Aca 5 to casual things is the same as BDE to dimensional attacks. No matter how high-level your dimensional manipulation is, it won't work on someone who is beyond them entirely. Same with ND. Although, iirc these things mostly work until 1A, but it has nothing to do with things like "higher causality"

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Although, iirc these things mostly work until 1A

This kinda just literally contradicts everything you just said tho? If it truly didn't have dimensional levels then BDE would just be on every metaphysical hax (it's not) and if there were no such things as "higher causality" then there would be no reason for why they work until 1A, so I really don't see the logic here.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So I've seen a lot of people have differing (and outright objectively incorrect) opinions on how characters can obtain acaus type 5, some people I know think only tier 0 characters can have it. Which is funny since acaus 5 tends to be really overrated to some people who don't fully understand it from what I have personally seen, as...afaik at least. It is essentially just a watered down version of HDE, BDE, ND2 and various other superior omni immunity hax (unless you're tier 0). So this thread is mainly to answer a question for the sake of proving them wrong, how exactly do you obtain type 5 acaus?

You need a statement of being beyond causality, being unchangeable, or unaffected by events. You also need evidence or statements of this being treated as making you uninteractable, or unchangeable.

From my understanding of the type 5 acaus page and shortening the explanation to a major degree, a character would obtain said ability by simply being above causality correct? As the page states that

"Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible."

Transcending causality, lacking it, being unbound by it, any form of independence works. It just needs evidence to back it up.

Now for clarification purposes, the last part mentioning how "interacting with them normally is impossible" is something I'm not entirely sure the direct meaning behind, I'm assuming by interacting it means that the character is just above the influence of the level of causality in question? So being a higher d being would be sufficient enough? I'm not entirely sure on that part, anyways to summarize the main point.

It depends on the type of Acausality.

Causality is treated differently across verses. Some treat it as being the same as time, others as something separate, like a concept. If concepts in a verse are 1-A, then you can safely say you have Acausality Type 5 to a 1-A degree if you transcend sed causality.

On the other hand, if the concepts of a verse are limited to 4D Universes and you transcend the concept of causality, then someone who comes from a verse where causality exists even on an 8D level would still be able to interact with them.

However, if someone lacks causality, in the same way as NEP Beings lack aspects, then no degree of Tier will allow you to interact with them through causality-based methods.

 

[AlexSamDen]

This kinda just literally contradicts everything you just said tho? If it truly didn't have dimensional levels then BDE would just be on every metaphysical hax (it's not) and if there were no such things as "higher causality" then there would be no reason for why they work until 1A, so I really don't see the logic here.

That is not "higher causality", that's fcking transendance that in itself transends everything below it

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

You need a statement of being beyond causality, being unchangeable, or unaffected by events. You also need evidence or statements of this being treated as making you uninteractable, or unchangeable.

Transcending causality, lacking it, being unbound by it, any form of independence works. It just needs evidence to back it up.

It depends on the type of Acausality.

Causality is treated differently across verses. Some treat it as being the same as time, others as something separate, like a concept. If concepts in a verse are 1-A, then you can safely say you have Acausality Type 5 to a 1-A degree if you transcend sed causality.

On the other hand, if the concepts of a verse are limited to 4D Universes and you transcend the concept of causality, then someone who comes from a verse where causality exists even on an 8D level would still be able to interact with them.

Yeah, this is kinda what I was getting at. So I was correct in my assumption then, all these things can rightfully give a character acausality type 5. Thank you for your input.

However, if someone lacks causality, in the same way as NEP Beings lack aspects, then no degree of Tier will allow you to interact with them through causality-based methods.

Interesting, I suppose this makes sense but I wasn't aware of that. I'll def take note of this

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

That is not "higher causality", that's fcking transendance that in itself transends everything below it

Don't understand your point? I'm not arguing immutability/transcendence of a level like tier 0 is higher causality, I was calling out your point which just lacked any coherence.

There were a few threads about how if there exists higher levels of causality, then just being independent of one isn't enough for type 5 and all that shtick, but I'm honestly not sure about that.

In response to this I had previously stated that a character not being able to have acausality type 5 just because higher levels of causality exist is contradictory (and as spaceman just stated prior I was correct to assume that) and all I stated was that it would contradict the example given on the page of "true immutability" only being a thing for tier 0 (as this would obviously indicate that not being tier 0 doesn't grant said immutability which then obviously confirms that lower tier characters and non tier 0's can obtain acausality type 5)