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Additional 1-A godsphere arguments (possibly)

KirbyFan03

KirbyFan03

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Hi all! I was interested in giving my opinion on some additional 1-A stuff for the Sphere of the Gods, I'd like your opinions about it please.

Here's a list of my arguments
  1. For my first part. The Fourth Dimension has been around longer than arithmetic to number (Darkseid vs Galactus: The Hunger)
  2. Numbers are a rudimentary understanding of existence implying reality in DC, to the New Gods extends beyond the quantitative (New Gods Vol 5 #3 2024)
  3. While this deals with emanation worlds (This is from Morrisons seven soldiers of victory) Godworlds can be accessed not only through boomtubes but through black holes In black holes directions like up and down don't exist. Now from my understanding of dimensions in the scaling sense, higher dimensions build  up on lower ones but it doesnt appear to be the case here.(Seven Soldiers of Victory: Mr Miracle #1)
  4. The Fourth Dimension isn't bound by the Multiverses physics. I find this to be interesting because not only is it from the latest event it means that the Fourth World doesn't abide by the 11D in the in-bleed multiverse. Which adds some consistency if we add it with point 3 (DC KO #1)
  5. Metron has solved a Rubicks Cube in 17 moves. If i may highlight why, he also mentions "gods number" in the scan. Gods number is the minimum number of moves needed to solve a random scramble of a  full Rubicks Cube, back during FCs run it was thought to be 18 but as of currently it's proven to be 20. Which While that means the maths inaccurate it does keep to the spirit for what Morrison intended the New Gods to be portrayed as (as he practically reinvented them) they'd be above physics and mathematical principles as we may know it (Final Crisis #5)
  6. Godworlds are located in an untouchable and unreachable place (Green Lantern Godhead #13)
  7. The god worlds exist outside corporeal reality (Justice League Odyssey #24)
  8. Even back in Kirbys time. The worlds could be accessed via Boom Tubes which are made from mind waves(New Gods 1970 Vol 1 #1). Mother Boxes are powered by Element X a material from The Forge of Worlds (Justice League 2016 #33)
  9. So to summarize what I'm saying. New Gods exist and operate beyond the scope of arithmetic (by definition the branch of mathematics that deals with numbers) they're also able to manipulate it as an advanced form of probability manipulation (as we've seen so far) but they're also above multiversal physics. Theyre also above physical composition too and exist in an otherwise unreachable and untouchable realm. Motherboxes can reach these places but they aren't normal portals and are made and powered by something originating in DCs 6th dimension of reality.
 
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This is more pertaining to the New Gods. Though you can use JLA run by Morrison has excellent arguments.
 
Wirtzwest said:
This is more pertaining to the New Gods. Though you can use JLA run by Morrison has excellent arguments.
Click to expand...
I'm mostly a New Gods guy lol (I'm talentless XD) but I'm using outer arguments using the stuff I know about them
 

Statements​

  • A place that is not a place. A time that is beyond time. Two worlds turn in the darkness, as they have for years beyond the scope of mere arithmetic to number.
    • Unsure for 1-A since it's basically referring to higher dimensions of time.
  • “Tell me, Chronicler, have you ever come across the earthly mortals and their attempts at explaining existence with numbers?” “Rudimentary casualty with a limited grasp of the truth, but on occasion they come up with interesting things…” - Metron and The Chronicler
    • Might count for "qualitative" existence
  • “I need up!” “Down!” “Not here. This is the interior of the event horizon, where nothing is.” “Where even he cannot see or hear us.” - Metron
    • Wouldn't consider this as qualitative
  • “It’s fourth-dimensional. Not bound by our physics. By my calculations, it would reshape itself to test you. Create a tournament. Each of these rings would be a higher level of challenge.” - Time Trapper
    • Not being bound by "our physics" isn't really signs for "qualitative" existence
  • Going past God's Number
    • Wouldn't consider this for "qualitative" existence.
  • "IN AN UNTOUCHABLE, UNREACHABLE PLANE… THE FLOATING CITY OF NEW GENESIS, HOME OF THE NEW GODS."
    • Maybe?
  • “We will return Apokolips to the Sphere of the Gods, outside corporeal reality.”
    • Might count for "qualitative" or an abstract existence
  • “Look! It’s some kind of tube—appearing out of thin air!” “It stems from the waves of the mind!”
    • More context is needed.
  • “And at my heart is Element X. The purest, brightest metal in the cosmos, from the World Forge itself. Teeming with possibility.”
    • Is Element X rated as 1-A?
 
Firestorm808 said:

Statements​

  • A place that is not a place. A time that is beyond time. Two worlds turn in the darkness, as they have for years beyond the scope of mere arithmetic to number.
    • Unsure for 1-A since it's basically referring to higher dimensions of time.
  • “Tell me, Chronicler, have you ever come across the earthly mortals and their attempts at explaining existence with numbers?” “Rudimentary casualty with a limited grasp of the truth, but on occasion they come up with interesting things…” - Metron and The Chronicler
    • Might count for "qualitative" existence
  • “I need up!” “Down!” “Not here. This is the interior of the event horizon, where nothing is.” “Where even he cannot see or hear us.” - Metron
    • Wouldn't consider this as qualitative
  • “It’s fourth-dimensional. Not bound by our physics. By my calculations, it would reshape itself to test you. Create a tournament. Each of these rings would be a higher level of challenge.” - Time Trapper
    • Not being bound by "our physics" isn't really signs for "qualitative" existence
  • Going past God's Number
    • Wouldn't consider this for "qualitative" existence.
  • "IN AN UNTOUCHABLE, UNREACHABLE PLANE… THE FLOATING CITY OF NEW GENESIS, HOME OF THE NEW GODS."
    • Maybe?
  • “We will return Apokolips to the Sphere of the Gods, outside corporeal reality.”
    • Might count for "qualitative" or an abstract existence
  • “Look! It’s some kind of tube—appearing out of thin air!” “It stems from the waves of the mind!”
    • More context is needed.
  • “And at my heart is Element X. The purest, brightest metal in the cosmos, from the World Forge itself. Teeming with possibility.”
    • Is Element X rated as 1-A?
Click to expand...
To answer some of the questions here.

1. For the "years beyond arithmetic to number" it could refer to a higher dimension of time but I think it should be beyond any Spatial plane as they are mathematical (as far as I know higher dimensions in the spatio-temporal sense are planes of mathematical hierarchy)

3. "I need up! Down!" Sure it may not be qualitative but it does signify that Fourth World has some level of beyond dimensional existence if up and down means it's not Cartesian (Cartesian maps often work with 2 up to 3D) I wouldn't say it proves 4D as higher dimensions build up on lower ones (how a 3D object is made from 1D length and 2D width and then with the 3rd element being breadth making it 3D). I think it does indeed prove  some form of BEYOND dimensional existence on its own.

4. "Going past God's number" I think it's significant not because of it being a hax but with the other statements (before and after FC like The Hunger and Ram V respectively) means that the hax comes from being on a higher order of reality allowing them to mess with it

5. "Look its some kind of tube!". The person said it and Orion responded "it stems from the waves of the mind" as believe it or not... this was the debut of The Boom Tube.

6. Element X comes from the World Forge, the dominion of The World Forger who is Outer+
 
KirbyFan03 said:
To answer some of the questions here.

1. For the "years beyond arithmetic to number" it could refer to a higher dimension of time but I think it should be beyond any Spatial plane as they are mathematical (as far as I know higher dimensions in the spatio-temporal sense are planes of mathematical hierarchy)

3. "I need up! Down!" Sure it may not be qualitative but it does signify that Fourth World has some level of beyond dimensional existence if up and down means it's not Cartesian (Cartesian maps often work with 2 up to 3D) I wouldn't say it proves 4D as higher dimensions build up on lower ones (how a 3D object is made from 1D length and 2D width and then with the 3rd element being breadth making it 3D). I think it does indeed prove  some form of BEYOND dimensional existence on its own.

4. "Going past God's number" I think it's significant not because of it being a hax but with the other statements (before and after FC like The Hunger and Ram V respectively) means that the hax comes from being on a higher order of reality allowing them to mess with it

5. "Look its some kind of tube!". The person said it and Orion responded "it stems from the waves of the mind" as believe it or not... this was the debut of The Boom Tube.

6. Element X comes from the World Forge, the dominion of The World Forger who is Outer+
Click to expand...
Everything I didn't list I agree with
 
Firestorm808 said:

Statements​

  • A place that is not a place. A time that is beyond time. Two worlds turn in the darkness, as they have for years beyond the scope of mere arithmetic to number.
    • Unsure for 1-A since it's basically referring to higher dimensions of time.
  • “Tell me, Chronicler, have you ever come across the earthly mortals and their attempts at explaining existence with numbers?” “Rudimentary casualty with a limited grasp of the truth, but on occasion they come up with interesting things…” - Metron and The Chronicler
    • Might count for "qualitative" existence
  • “I need up!” “Down!” “Not here. This is the interior of the event horizon, where nothing is.” “Where even he cannot see or hear us.” - Metron
    • Wouldn't consider this as qualitative
  • “It’s fourth-dimensional. Not bound by our physics. By my calculations, it would reshape itself to test you. Create a tournament. Each of these rings would be a higher level of challenge.” - Time Trapper
    • Not being bound by "our physics" isn't really signs for "qualitative" existence
  • Going past God's Number
    • Wouldn't consider this for "qualitative" existence.
  • "IN AN UNTOUCHABLE, UNREACHABLE PLANE… THE FLOATING CITY OF NEW GENESIS, HOME OF THE NEW GODS."
    • Maybe?
  • “We will return Apokolips to the Sphere of the Gods, outside corporeal reality.”
    • Might count for "qualitative" or an abstract existence
  • “Look! It’s some kind of tube—appearing out of thin air!” “It stems from the waves of the mind!”
    • More context is needed.
  • “And at my heart is Element X. The purest, brightest metal in the cosmos, from the World Forge itself. Teeming with possibility.”
    • Is Element X rated as 1-A?
Click to expand...
Tbf these would just be supporting statements for a realm that's already accepted as 1-A
 
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