Ainz power level.??

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

I'm a little confused on Ainz, a lot of discussion i see says grasp heart, time stop and the like. But doesn't this fall into the realm of NLF to assume it would work on anyone provided you don't have a specific immunity or quirk countering it.

And on that, if Ainz were to hit say albedo or sebas with a grasp heart that isn't blocked, does that insta-kill them?


Also not sure fi this question is in the right discussion group

 

[Akreious]

I'm a little confused on Ainz, a lot of discussion i see says grasp heart, time stop and the like. But doesn't this fall into the realm of NLF to assume it would work on anyone provided you don't have a specific immunity or quirk countering it.
And on that, if Ainz were to hit say albedo or sebas with a grasp heart that isn't blocked, does that insta-kill them?


Also not sure fi this question is in the right discussion group

Albedo and Sebas both have resistance to instant death due to being PvP NPCs, so Grasp heart would do nothing (Except Stupefy them, obviously).

No it's not a NLF. What? Why wouldn't a hax that has no relation to AP work on someone without resistance? If I inject you with a virus that has a 100% Fatality Rate in 5 seconds, you will absolutely need previous resistance in order to survive it.

No, it's not. It should be in "Questions and Answers" because calcs. are for calculations.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

@Akreious

I know the NPC's have resistance to most of the common PvP elements, but I meant if they didn't would Ainz just one-shot them? Wouldn't that make the original yggdrsil game to unbalanced. Anyways, thats not really the issue, so what you're saying is in a vs battle matchup regardless of who the character is or how strong they are, if they don't have that SPECIFIC hax resistance or similar quirks, they's automatically die??

Like say Ainz used grasp heart on the hulk, it would work?? how far does it go?? Superman?? The Sentry?? These characters do not have particular magic resistance, and while they do have regen, not completely certain they have a regrow your heart regen, so they'd die too. Isn't that the a NLF, it's like the thing with Avada Kedavra, in-universe it's a kill curse that is unblockable if it hits, doesn't mean in a vs battle someone like Thanos could be killed by avada kedavra.

Generally in fiction, even if a character has some kind of hax it usually fails when they are up against a character that's so far above them (a different level). It's like the same concept of a level supression. Oh yeah, so does that also mean than if a level, say 30 ( Was there a level restriction on grasp heart, aside from the mp usage?), say a level 30 charcter performed a grasp heart on a level 100 character without resistance, they'd insta-kill them?

This isn't limited to just grasp heart but all his insta-kill spells, wouldn't it just be a chance to insta-kill that gets smaller the stronger the opponent his.

P.S. How do I move the thread??

 

[Akreious]

If the creators didn't give the NPCs resistance then yes, Ainz would just 1-shot. The original game is like D&D in that the game is indeed unbalanced with some builds. Just like how his timestop would affect other level 100s if they didnt invest into timestop resistance

Yes that's what I saying. The whole point of hax is that they ignore power levels of the enemy to kill enemies you normally can't.

If Ainz used grasp heart on the Hulk, Hulk would just die. Strength has nothing to do with resistance. Also I think you're misunderstanding something. Grasp Heart is instant death magic, not TK that targets the heart.

Uh. Avada Kedavra has been blocked by regular stone pillars. Its a projectile that can be blocked. But if Thanos just facetanks it with no resistance then yes he'd just die.

"Generally in fiction" doesn't matter? Also not really. Besides Dragon Ball, little verses ever have "AP=Resistance to hax". Even if you have Infinity strength, you will still die if I kill you instantly with magic. Strength means nothing.

Unless a hax has displayed a specific weakness to stronger beings, we do not treat hax as weaker the stronger the target is.

You have to ask a moderator/staff

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

@Akreious

Isn't this the very defintion of an NLF. Usually fir haxed abilities, you analyze the mechanics behind how it works and see if it applies to different abilities on case by case basis. But the major issue with this is usually there is no explanation for hax most of the time, especially in shows involving magic, they just magically do what they do. In cases like that, going by what you've just said their hax pretty much becomes an NLF.


For example Imagine character X if from Xverse and in that verse she is cursed with invulnerability to all, and only possible to be killed by a certain sword Y. Even though character x resides in a street level universe, or at best wall level feats shown. By your explanation, there is no way for a character like the hulk to win.

Hell even if we add in characters that have hax, why should we regard their hax as above character X hax, going by your explanation above, even if they have reality warping, why should that superseed character X hax. Do you see my point?? By your explanation Magic hax becomes an NLF. You cannot have interesting battles with this.

At what point does the line have to be drawn, or is there really no line.

Even considering hax by themselves, you have cases where characters possess certain hax or resistance, and it works until they meet a stronger character who bypasses their hax or resistance with another hax. Considering this, If character A and B fight and once side argues character A has this hax, and the otherside argues character B has resistance to this hax, why should the resistance automatically overide the hax in the VS battle when even in series resistance isn't usually absolute.

My point with all this is, treating hax like you mentioned makes little sense since they were not created to work that way. That is exactly why i brought up Avada Kedavra. It is stated inverse to kill anything if it hits. But if it hit, he'd kill Thanos?? Superman?? Saitama?? What about if Galactus had no insta-death magic durability, will it kill him too??

 

[DeathNoodles]

We don't scale hax by Attack Potency here. Like Akreious said, we usually judge whether or not hax works on the target based on if they possess resistance to such hax. If they have resistance, then hax likely gets resisted. If they don't have resistance, then it would work on them. Though if one character has hax and the other has a hax resistance that could be overpowered, then we judge the potency of their hax and resistance on a case to case basis. We generally don't judge hax based on Attack Potency or Tiers, especially if the character that suffers the short-end of a hax has no resistance to it.

The only exceptions would be if the character with certain hax were to face an enemy with Abstract Existence, Higher-Dimensional Existence, or if the enemy would simply require higher-dimensional power to be able to content with them due to the sheer tier difference. That is when the character affecting their enemy with a certain hax would be considered NLF, and would need to have proof that their hax can affect entities such as that. Also, including Galactus in your argument about being killed by instant-death magic is quite flawed as Galactus is a character with Abstract Existence, Low-Godly Regenerationn, and Type 8 Immortality (all of which circumvents Death Manipulation, thus Galactus wouldn't even be defeated by instant death abilities like these in the first place unless they can affect concepts). And yes, Ainz was once pitted against Saitama in a thread, and the thread was closed due to Ainz haxstomping Saitama (you should know, since you've been there).

Heck, this thread is a prime example due to Yoshikage Kira (a tier 8-C character at best) defeating Cell (a tier High 4-C character at least) through nothing but hax, where the latter's lack of resistance to the former's hax was one of the main reasons that led to his defeat.


Overall, we don't estimate a character' hax with AP or Tiers unless their enemy happens to exist in a higher dimension than them (The enemy being a 4D being over the character being a 3D being with 3D powers) or is an abstract existence (Type 1 or even possibly Type 2), which would be when the character requires proof/scans of affecting higher existences with their hax (the former requiring higher-dimensional level abilities to affect them, and the latter requiring conceptual-level abilities to affect and/or defeat them).

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

@Death Noodles

Thanks for the explanation, I just found it weird that the hax could be scaled to affect characters several levels above the hax user when the original creator of the character might not have intended it to be so.

The galactus example was me just wanting to understand how far up the hax is taken to affect other characters, obviously I know galactus would not be affected normally. What I was going for was more of a universal level + character in stats without magic resistance and such, but then again, i'd be rare for a character to be that potent and not have such resistance.

Saitama ans ainz huh, lol i don't remember sounds like the kind of thread i'd check out since I know both characters.