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Akatsukiverse: General Discussion Thread

Iirc in the movie when Yunyun dad was showing how the village fight the DK army, you see a big battle with huge spells flying and one of them looked like a tornado but that could be wrong
I checked, and yes, they were creating tornadoes and large explosions, which is at least High 8-C, but I wonder if I can get a higher number through calculations.
The town stuff happened in the spin off where all the adults destroyed the village tho thats one a bit vague, tho i remember there being some big explosion.
They did it, but it took them a while, and they did it by casting spells nonstop.
Nothing i can do to help except saying that the Megumin one happened in her fight against Arnes and Kazuma is against the Devil King
In Kazuma's case, he simply cast his spell before DK finished chanting his.
 
Man i cant wait for the anime profiles, i have so many questions and ideas
 
I was about to calculate Mitsurugi's feat of bending steel bars in the anime and I realized that the number of bars bent is inconsistent. First there are 5, then 3 (one only slightly bent), and then there are 3 but one of them is broken (this last version is the most consistent because it continues like this throughout the rest of the scene).

What should I do in this case?
 
I was about to calculate Mitsurugi's feat of bending steel bars in the anime and I realized that the number of bars bent is inconsistent. First there are 5, then 3 (one only slightly bent), and then there are 3 but one of them is broken (this last version is the most consistent because it continues like this throughout the rest of the scene).

What should I do in this case?
"In truly extreme examples, exceptions may apply, and common sense should be used. Ultimately, the most important factor is to choose a scaling method that is appropriate for the particular situation and provides the most accurate and consistent results."

I guess you should just use the last one for this.
 
Shouldnt the initial instance of the feat be used as that's when it's the clearest and has most attention given to it ?
 

I know it’s CG, so I’ll look for the official ver later. But this isn’t too bad. It seems to have taken place not too long after volume 3 but before volume 4 based on Kazuma describing the opponents Megumin has defeated and Heinz wasn’t there.

A spirit of storm strong enough to make heavy rain clouds and typhoons that can wreck Axel and js comparable to the winter shogun.

Obviously it’s all guesswork, but I’m sure the explosive power of Megumin by V17 would be enough to kill the Winter Shogun (General Winter).

Either way, Megumin will get 7-A one day 😭

Edit: in fact, not just assumption scaling just using logical progression. It took the combined assault of YunYuns lightning strike, Wiz’s explosion and then finally Megumin explosion to “take down” the excess mana of that Spirit comparable to the winter shogun.

I don’t think it’s crazy to say that EOS (prolly even earlier too) Megumin explosion is undeniably stronger than whatever combined force we saw from back then. Unlike the other two, she’s been investing all her skill points into making her explosion the strongest there is.

Her explosion being above Wiz’s is canon, and I don’t think it’s debatable if her explosion is stronger than YunYuns lightning strike lmao.

She even surpassed Wolbach and made work of the so called worlds strongest who was using infinite mana from hell (but he calls Megumins the cheater for fighting at a distance ☠️😭) I don’t think it’s insane to say even if she couldn’t beat the storm spirit / Winter shogun.

She could output a power comparable / superior to the combined assault of those 3 many volumes ago.

Also all advanced magic users (assuming they don’t have already) should also get NPI since it’s confirmed that advanced magic can harm spirits and was the whole reason why YunYun was there in the first place lol.
 
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Speaking of the anime, was the strength stat ever shown to encompass both AP and LS, as in the novel? Otherwise, no one will be able to scale to Mitsurugi's LS in the anime (except probably the God-Tiers)
 
  • In terms of physical feats, the movie final fight have some between Darkness and fused Sylvia, with Sylvia swinging her massive sword around at high speed (K.E and LS) and breaking Wizs ice, Darkness can somewhat clash with her.
  • Magic feats mostly happens in the spin off, movie and any scene involving Wiz's freezing which should get far higher result than 8-B considering Kazuma's High 8-C+ feat.
  • LS i remeber Darkness clashing with Beldia which crushed the ground beneath them and her lifting the Hydra which is unweighted, the same sort clash happened between her and Sylvia too which aslo cratered the ground.
  • Speed we still have to determine whether Lightning magic is MHS+ or not which could scale to Explosion, tho Explosion should still be Supersonic+ for outpacing Beldia (sidenote Beldia should have High 7-C magic dura for surviving Explosion). In the castle raid, Chris reacted to Rain Lightning iirc. I would argue a serious Darkness should downscale from Beldias Supersonic+ feat considering he was impressed with her clashes with him and was even hype for a fight between them which wouldnt make sense if she were orders of magnitude slower than him. Other than that Wiz and Vanir should also scale as they can keep up with fused Sylvia which contained Beldia
  • Thats pretty much all i can think of for the anime. Theres also the CD drama but im too lazy for those
 
Speaking of the anime, was the strength stat ever shown to encompass both AP and LS, as in the novel? Otherwise, no one will be able to scale to Mitsurugi's LS in the anime (except probably the God-Tiers)
I mean Megumin have higher strength stat than Kazuma and can easily grapple with him while Man drained. So is Darkness with her strength stat. I dont think theres any inconsistency so it should be reasonable to assume so
 
Do the Giant Toads and Lizard runners have anime K.E calc since Kazuma can kill both while Aqua got rammed by the later
 
So, I forgot to ask but what do we think about Aqua being able to dispell/purify/seal(or whatever) RBD
It’s annoying but I had to check but in volume 17 ch3, Eris states Aqua can’t seal abilities, so that sucks. However you could argue she meant Aqua is her current form since she only got access to her full divinity at the EOS.

So it just comes down to wether you think sacred break spell can destroy RBD fr or if you agree with giving her time resistance via scaling to the goddess of time
 
Is this higher or lower than the Wiz feat
Slightly higher.

Wiz's Feat: 38.0073128585086 tons of TNT

Random Crimson Demon's Feat: 38.2520704476577 tons of TNT

Also, i wonder would the anime version yields higher result, especially the fight against Sylvia
I'd like to calculate it, but I have no idea how to calculate the volume of water that Wiz froze.
 
Question: Kazuma Manatite boosted Create Earth was able to block the DK advanced Magic, Kazuma then used that same earth to create a golem, DK then create an even bigger and stronger golem than Kazuma's who then one shot said golem with Dynamite. Does this mean anything for scaling ?
 
It’s annoying but I had to check but in volume 17 ch3, Eris states Aqua can’t seal abilities, so that sucks. However you could argue she meant Aqua is her current form since she only got access to her full divinity at the EOS.

So it just comes down to wether you think sacred break spell can destroy RBD fr or if you agree with giving her time resistance via scaling to the goddess of time
Hmm iirc they actually can? They can stop your ability to use the toilet, seal abilities into weapons and stuff can't they?

Tho from the yorimichi chapters I remember vanir prevented megumin from using explosions for a week or more, and aqua can do the same. Most of these are from curses I think tho. So seal or powernull via curse manip not sure which one
 
Question: Kazuma Manatite boosted Create Earth was able to block the DK advanced Magic, Kazuma then used that same earth to create a golem, DK then create an even bigger and stronger golem than Kazuma's who then one shot said golem with Dynamite. Does this mean anything for scaling ?
It means something like this:

Kazuma's dynamite >>> DK's golem > Kazuma's golem = Intermediate Magic enhanced with Manatite = Advanced Magic

This is... consistent to a certain extent, since it is stated that Kazuma's dynamite is comparable to Blasting Magic, which is canonically more powerful than Advanced Magic. However, it also creates some problems.

1- Wolbach survived an explosion from Kazuma's dynamite; the other Generals should be comparable. There are characters at the level of a General who either use Advanced Magic (meaning they defend themselves with Magic several times weaker than their fists) or are injured by Advanced Magic.

2- The DK survived an explosion from Kazuma's dynamite even though he had powered it up with Set Trap, but he still ran away in fear when Kazuma created that golem. It would mean that he was running away from something that couldn't even harm him considerably.
 
It means something like this:

Kazuma's dynamite >>> DK's golem > Kazuma's golem = Intermediate Magic enhanced with Manatite = Advanced Magic

This is... consistent to a certain extent, since it is stated that Kazuma's dynamite is comparable to Blasting Magic, which is canonically more powerful than Advanced Magic. However, it also creates some problems.

1- Wolbach survived an explosion from Kazuma's dynamite; the other Generals should be comparable. There are characters at the level of a General who either use Advanced Magic (meaning they defend themselves with Magic several times weaker than their fists) or are injured by Advanced Magic.

2- The DK survived an explosion from Kazuma's dynamite even though he had powered it up with Set Trap, but he still ran away in fear when Kazuma created that golem. It would mean that he was running away from something that couldn't even harm him considerably.
Well the thing with explosions is that its power can decrease dramarically with distance unless you are close and was hit dead on so this can all still works. Also did not know that Kazumas dynamite was comparable to blasting magic, this would put it and by comparison Kazuma's Explosion at 8-B with our current value no ?
 
DK's golem was smaller than Kazuma's. It was able to one shot it because it got enhanced by the DK cheat ability. Also, the scaling isn't so straightforward in terms of any Advanced Magic spell casted by anyone > any Intermediate Magic spell casted by anyone.

Each person has its own Magic Power stat. The higher it is, the more powerful the spell will be. Also, each person has its own mana pool and can pour as much mana in a spell as they want. All these things factor at determining, at the end, which spell will be stronger. If we have two persons who are equals, using each the same amount of mana, one uses Intermediate Lightning and the other uses Advanced Lightning spell, then the Advanced one will be stronger. Otherwise, many things will factor in determining which spell will be stronger.

Kazuma himself says in V16 how he poured a lot of mana in one of his spells, yet it ended up being weak anyway, then Megumin replies that it is because his magic power stat is less than 1/10 of hers. Or how it was said that Yunyun's Intermediate Fireball in Bakuen was very impressive, Advanced Magic level, because she poured all her mana on it. Or how Leonor's Intermediate Magic is said by Yunyun to be able to impress even the Crimson Demons, this is because Leonor is extremely talented being a Royal, so her MP stat is very high.
 
We need a page that explains how magic works in Konosuba, because it's a bit complex.

Personally, I think one of the variables is the amount of mana put into the spell, but that definitely has a limit.
  • Both Wiz and Wolbach consider their Explosion Magic superior to the rest of their magic (with Wolbach it's vaguely implied, with Wiz it's quite obvious). If they could simply put the same amount of mana they use in Explosion into their Advanced Magic and achieve the same amount of power, neither would need that spell because they could achieve the same destructive power with any other.
  • The power of spells varies considerably even if they are fueled by the same type of Manatite (i.e., the same amount of mana/MP). This wouldn't make sense if only the amount of mana mattered.

The level of the adventurer casting the spell is also an important factor, since leveling up increases magical abilities.

Another factor I noticed is the caster's class.
  • The DK considered that Kazuma's explosion might not kill him because it was "an adventurer's explosion."
  • Megumin wasn't surprised to learn that her explosion was weaker than Wiz's because she was a Lich, even though, unlike Megumin, Wiz never improved her spell after learning it.
  • Vanir implies that the Explosion spell isn't meant to be learned by humans.

This is consistent because some types of magic are portrayed as superior to others even when the characters are aware of these variations, such as a Crimson Demon's Advanced Magic being inferior to Blasting Magic in general, or Explosion Magic being considered superior to Advanced Magic even when used by a weakling like Kazuma. One of Megumin's teachers also confidently stated that Advanced Magic was the most powerful of the three elemental magic types. All those comparisons would be meaningless if those types of magic didn't have a minimum and maximum level on which to base their classification as superior or inferior to others.

I believe the power of a spell depends on:

1- The amount of mana (with the aforementioned limit). If the amount of mana put into the spell is lower than necessary, it can still be cast, but it will be a weaker version than normal, like the intermediate spells Kazuma tried to use without Manatite or Kazuma's healing spells that were unable to heal a deep wound until he used a Manatite. If the amount of mana is low enough, the character won't even be able to do that.
2- The type of magic used (some types of magic are undeniably superior to others in every possible way).
3- The level of the caster.
4- The class of the character using the spell (For example, a Wizard's intermediate magic will be lower than an Arch-Wizard's intermediate magic).

Regarding the minimum power each type of magic must have (not considering weaker versions of these spells cast by characters with insufficient mana):

Basic Magic: 9-A (Kazuma had average stats when he performed the 9-A feat, so anyone using Basic Magic should be at least comparable to him. Variables like class type, level, or extra mana would only make this type of magic higher than the aforementioned value).

Intermediate Magic: 8-C (One of his spells literally creates a natural lightning bolt. Variables like class type, level, or extra mana would only make this type of magic higher than the aforementioned value).

Advanced Magic: 8-B (An average Crimson Demon is at this level. Iirc, it's never stated that Crimson Demons can use Advanced Magic above their base level [I could be wrong about this because I read the series several months ago]; Crimson Demons are simply born with a very high magic level, allowing them all to access the Arch-Wizard class and learn Advanced Magic. Although there are a few who are more powerful than normal, such as Megumin and Yunyun. It's worth mentioning that almost all the characters who aren't Crimson Demons but are capable of using Advanced Magic in the series are characters with a higher mana pool than a Crimson Demon, such as Liches, Goddesses, High-Rank Demons, etc).
 
You're just missing one important thing. Magic Power and Mana aren't the same thing, and this is explicit in the story. There's a Magic Power stat, and there's your Mana pool which is not considered a stat.

Say, for example, to put it in numbers, that you have a Mana Pool of 20, a Magic Power stat of 15, and that the Fireball spell burns at least 5 of Mana to be cast. Then your basic (without spending more Mana than necessary) Fireball will be as strong as whatever how strong a MP of 20 is. If someone has a MP of 25, it'll be stronger than yours, and so on.

Quality of the Mana is also a thing, but probably minor as it isn't talked about much. It is said by Megumin that Aqua's Mana is amazing and therefore she can cast a stronger Explosion, and Wiz says that Devils have the purest Mana, and so on.

A Class gives you stat boosts, this is mentioned. A Mage Class will give you a stats buff in magic related things, that an Adventurer will otherwise lack, which is why, on top of everything, Kazuma's Explosion was weaker.

Kazuma's use of Manatites means he is making up for his low MP stat, by boosting the spell with tons of Mana. Those Manatites have enough Mana to be used as EOS Megumin's Explosions, and Kazuma was using all of that in a single Intermediate Lightning spell or so, to make them effective. Leonor wasn't using lots of Mana when she killed the frog with a Fireball, but since her MP is very high, her normal Fireball spell is very powerful. This is how it works.
 
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