Akira Kurusu VS Randall Flagg

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Battle of The Men in Black.

This wasn't my idea, but it looks good to me nonetheless.

Anywho!

Rules

• Random Encounter.
• High 8-C Kurusu
• Speed is equalized.
• Both characters are bloodlusted IC.
• Battle takes place here.
• Winner by death or incapacitation.
• Votes with one-dimensional reasoning (such as '[character] via hax') will not be counted.

Vote Count

• Akira Kurusu: 1 (Yomi Schwarz)
• Randall Flagg: 1 (Amexim)
• Inconclusive: 2 (KinkiestSins, Hizack123)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Speedbump

 

[Amexim]

Akira, via Makarakarn (Magic variant of Tetrakarn, bounces offensive Spells back onto the user). Should have resistances and possibly immunities to everything this guy can do, being a Wild Card and having access to nearly every persona.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I can count that for now.

Although, for the sake of argument/clarification, what exactly has Makarakarn been used to deflect? Has it stopped things like transmutation?

Also, what are Akira's showings against psychic, mental and emotional attacks? And are any of the personas in the verse capable of protecting him from things such as this?

 

[KinkiestSins]

I can count that for now.

Although, for the sake of argument/clarification, what exactly has Makarakarn been used to deflect? Has it stopped things like transmutation?

Also, what are Akira's showings against psychic, mental and emotional attacks? And are any of the personas in the verse capable of protecting him from things such as this?

It only blocks offensive spells, does not block status effects and transmutation counts. I will come back and vote seriously. But for now, I lean to Akira, but closer to inconclusive.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I figured so. Details like that are important, yes. I'm also stiill curious about Akira's mental capabilities, since Flagg is kind of a monster in that area.

And yeah, feel free to come back whenever. I'll wait to count your vote until you're ready to give your reasons.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Akira has the Wild Card thus he switches to either Daisoujou or Alice to use Die For Me!!! or Samsara

in fact Akira has hundreds of methods to win with the Wild Card and his hax is far more vast with it

 

[KinkiestSins]

Akira has the Wild Card thus he switches to either Daisoujou or Alice to use Die For Me!!! or Samsara
in fact Akira has hundreds of methods to win with the Wild Card and his hax is far more vast with it

You know that that could have just said hama or mudo and that would also be valid? Those are hado and mudo skills.

Uhh, not really? Do you know what kind of hax Randall?

Randall can and I repeat:

Inflict Mind Control by either manipulating literally magic hunters brains or in a more dark tone, telling them to 'Stop Breathing'.

Shut down ALL biological processes by saying "Goodbye"

Cause guns to misfire

ALSO has a magic barrier

Can transmute his opponent into an apple or something else non threatning

Can teleport, in fact minus mind control and MAYBE telepathy I would arguet this is one more of his well used abilities.

Sounds like to me they are pretty even.

 

[Hizack123]

If i remember right, i think there is a skill that refect Magic for Akira too.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Btw it's hama not hado

and saying hama or mudo skills can be vague while saying he uses the hama and mudo skills itself is kinda shit since those are actually the weakest insta-kill spells in the game

not that it matters but Samsara and Die For Me!!! are the best insta kill's in the game

those are pretty cool feats and all but a One Hit Kill spell makes that useless once akira uses it

i never said "this fight is not fair" so i dont know wtf you called me out for

 

[KinkiestSins]

If remember right, i think there is a skill that refect Magic too.

Was mentioned above and already debunked.

Does not block status effects.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_5_Skills

Complete list for you @King

I already said even with the ap advantage this would be a close match.

So..Apparently NO ONE KNOWS Randal Flagg, lets start with his advantages

More willing mindset to kill

Mind Break, Control and Reading

Transmutation Ignores Durability

Higher Physical Strength

VASTLY more experience, lived for a thousand years or so, he recalls old wars in humanity's history as recent events.

Fire Arms are useless against him.


Akira Advanges

Higher AP by an unknown margin, but at least five times or so.

Hado and Mudo one shot.

Despair says '**** You, you're dying anyway."

Radiation Manipulation ignore durability

Almighty attacks ignore durability.

Possibly better resistances via persona usage (making elemental magic basically useless)

I know some personas prevent hado or mudo one shots, but with verse equalization I doubt it would work since it is at best Biological Manipulation and Mind Manipulation, both of which Akira has not displayed resistances too in the past.


I will say generally speaking their about equal with hax, but randall is more likely to use them.

I will say Akira, but the reasons above make no sense except hado and mudo does indeed one shot.

I will say Inconclusive for now, since it is who hits first.

And Randall has mind reading, so he knows what Akira is planning. Good luck trying to bypass that.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Btw it's hama not hado
and saying hama or mudo skills can be vague while saying he uses the hama and mudo skills itself is kinda shit since those are actually the weakest insta-kill spells in the game

not that it matters but Samsara and Die For Me!!! are the best insta kill's in the game

those are pretty cool feats and all but a One Hit Kill spell makes that useless once akira uses it

i never said "this fight is not fair" so i dont know wtf you called me out for

In game, remember our Game Mechanics

Also, I didnt say you didnt say the fight was not fair.

You just said his hax is better and I disagree immensely.

And you are forgetting he can turn Akira into a frog and fights over. I laid out my earlier reasoning in a larger post (so dont worry)

I did not mean to sound rude, but saying his hax is superior is just not right. I am sorry if I came off as rude.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

I said "vast hax" not "superior hax"

 

[KinkiestSins]

I said "vast hax" not "superior hax"

Then I guess I misred, my bad. I just woke up.

Anyway, Inconclusive reasons stated above.

Also, just realized he cant be 'brainwashed.'

Unsure if it counts or not, but his mind can still be read, instakilled with one word spells and transmuted.

 

[Hizack123]

I go with Inconclusive too then.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Forgive me for being late to respond to this...

@KinkiestSins: Magic barrier is probably not going to work due to the AP gap, but even then, he can simply avoid attacks with teleportation. Bloodlust is also a thing, I'll remind you. They're both going for the kill here.

@Everyone else: I'm not going to throw all of Flagg's abilities into the fray yet, but for those curious;

• Mindhax are in fact abilities he uses often and well. On top of mind-reading, memory reading and mind-control, he's able to force people into dream-states with psychic blasts, directly control emotions (he caused a girl to feel nothing but contempt for her mother just by whispering the word 'hate' in her ear), and even do this to those who resist his influence.

• He can create fairly realistic and wide-scale illusions. As an example, he conjured up the Emerald Palace from The Wizard of Oz in the book Wizard and Glass, an illusion so realistic that the structures itself were tangible and the protagonists were able to walk inside.

• He has a spell for blinding enemies with a flash of light.

• He can transmute people into animals, and can also turn weapons into useless items. (Such as fruit)

• He can also turn himself 'dim', an act which isn't perfect invisibility, but instead a state that makes him translucent and causes others to become distracted from his presence.

• He can induce sleep, either through commands (read: literally saying the word 'sleep') or via the spell he used on Roland in The Gunslinger.

• He has his own means of instant-death attacks. He can stop a person's breathing with simple words, is able to cut off any number of other vital functions in the opponent's body through his commands, and has forced people to kill themselves with mind control.

There are other abilities he has, but I'll talk about them later, since I might have to log off for the moment. Just felt like summing up some of what he's bringing to the table.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@King yeah I noticed you use blood lust JUST RIGHT WHEN I commented that.

Which tbh, is probably a bad idea with an ap gap.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

It was already there, actually. I've had them bloodlusted since the beginning of the thread.

I can remove it if it makes things unfair for either side, though.

 

[KinkiestSins]

It was already there, actually. I can remove it if it makes things unfair for either side.

Probably since Akira..

doesnt kill.

I dont think he has qualms against it per se, but in the story he does not.

That hesitation provides Flagg an advantage.

Otherwise, AP stomp is a thing.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Technically has to be able to hit him with said AP in order for it to be a stomp (reminder that bloodlust also means teleportation spam for days), but I suppose I'll remove bloodlust for now.

EDIT: Done.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Anywho, I count one for Akira and two for inconclusive. Am I missing anyone?

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Anywho, I count one for Akira and two for inconclusive. Am I missing anyone?

dont think you counted mine

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Huh. So I didn't.

In that case, I count two votes for Akira and two for inconclusive. (Unless I've misread something here)

 

[KinkiestSins]

Huh. So I didn't.
In that case, I count two votes for Akira and two for inconclusive. (Unless I've misread something here)

Yomi and Amexin voted Akira

Hizack and I went inconclusive.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Figured so. Thanks.

Votes added.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[Amexim]

Akira should have access to almost every skill here, including the passive skills, like resist/null sleep, dizzy, forget, confuse, etc. As well as "Unshaken Will" which can "Impart immunity against all mental ailments".

For a complete list of the skills, here:

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_5_Skills

 

[KinkiestSins]

Akira should have access to almost every skill here, including the passive skills, like resist/null sleep, dizzy, forget, confuse, etc. As well as "Unshaken Will" which can "Impart immunity against all mental ailments".
For a complete list of the skills, here:

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_5_Skills

I know that, I corrected myself above and also linked the same page.

Akira should actually be resistant to Mind Control

/Proceeds to make crt.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Someone linked that list of skills already, but thanks.

Regarding "Unshaken Will", what are its showings against mental abilities in-series? Flagg was able to control an entire bar full of people just by saying 'Enjoy the show.', and those without particularly strong resistances to his magic end up going through extreme amounts of strain. (See the above video I linked where a psychic tried to resist his mind control)

Also, I read through the list earlier today and saw a few status effects involving Mind and Empathic Manipulation, along with sleep inducement. But I don't see anything that covers transmutation, or attacks that stop bodily functions. Flagg has a history of starting off with both of those.

There's also his illusions, which I didn't see a counter for in that list of skills when I looked. Does Akira have any solid feats for seeing through those?

 

[Amexim]

Akira is an RPG character, where his only existence is in 1 game in the series-- Unshaken Will apparently nulls mind hax from any and all characters/shadows that Akira would go against in-game. That means Shadows that model themselves after mythological beings that have God status, but that doesn't mean much since SMT demons don't scale to Persona Shadows. I can say, however, that Unshakable Will can resist hax that comes from a Galaxy level being that lives in the minds of all people's subconscious or something--- it's complicated. It's not to say Akira is featless-- not true, at all.

To answer Unshakable Will, he should be able to resist hax from Yaldaboath, who is kind of like the Christian God, but far less powerful. Galaxy level. Yaldaboath has the power to Warp reality according to the perception of the people of Earth, and he kind of erased Akira from existence by making everyone forget about him and his team. I'm not the most eloquent at saying these feats for Akira, as, even though I beat the game too, there's a lot of lore to deconstruct.

As for Transmutation and illusions, no defense against that. Does Randall have any answers to OHK Samsara/Die for Me?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Thanks for the info. And no, not unless they're projectile-based. Or dodgeable in some other form.

If they can be avoided physically, he has a teleport, and he's used it to escape from harm in the past. The range on this spans hundreds to thousands of miles at the very least-- he was able to teleport away from a nuke that destroyed the entirety of Las Vegas. If he's able to get any good amount of distance between himself and Akira, he can also summon animals and turn them into clones of himself. Illusions and dimness can also help as far as avoiding Akira's sight altogether.

He can also read minds fairly easily, but Akira may be able to stop that from happening.

 

[Amexim]

Curse and Bless spells being projectile based is, again, unclear due to the medium. I take the OHK spells to be, like, curses casted on enemies that either fail or succeed, but there are accuracy increasing and decreasing spells that might help one land the OHK.

Randall might be able to dodge the OHK, but can you explain how the Transmutation spells work?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

No need to tell you when I can show you.

____

The gunslinger had known magicians, enchanters, and alchemists in his time. Some had been clever charlatans, some stupid fakes in whom only people more stupid than they were themselves could believe (but there had never been a shortage of fools in the world, so even the stupid fakes survived; in fact most actually thrived), and a small few actually able to do those black things of which men whisper—these few could call demons and the dead, could kill with a curse or heal with strange potions. One of these men had been a creature the gunslinger believed to be a demon himself, a creature that pretended to be a man and called itself Flagg. He had seen him only briefly, and that had been near the end, as chaos and the final crash approached his land. Hot on his heels had come two young men who looked desperate and yet grim, men named Dennis and Thomas. These three had crossed only a tiny part of what had been a confused and confusing time in the gunslinger's life, but he would never forget seeing Flagg change a man who had irritated him into a howling dog. He remembered that well enough.

-Excerpt from The Drawing of the Three

___


...



The last two scans are notable because they show that he's willing to do this right off the bat when faced with enemies.

 

[Amexim]

So he just points and-- yeah, I think Randall's pretty ******* cool. I don't think Akira has any defense against that. I change my vote to Randall.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

And that marks the first vote for the Walkin' Dude.

Score is now 1:1:2

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[Saitamax]

i think it might be good to note there is a spell in persona 5 that works really similarly to that transmutation one, that a mini boss uses, where he points at a party member and turns them into a rat

while there is no immunity outright to it to my knowledge, if the character's agility stat is high enough, and especially if they're booosted by the evasion up spell, it will almost always miss.

there are personas that have auto-buffs where your characters always start the fight with every buff already applied, so if we're taking Akira at full potential with access to every persona ability he'd start the battle with every buff...meaning..well..i dunno if that would hit him.

i'm not voting anyways. just throwing this out there.