Aldebaran vs the Gray Boy

[Franstel]

vs

Rules:
*They fight in Priestella
*Speed unequalized
*They start 100 meters away from each other, out of each other's sight and with only a vague idea of the other's position.
*No prior knowledge

Gray Boy:
 Aldebaran:
Inconclusive:

 

[MrTayman616]

Subaru and Emilia wins. Emilia just freezes him. The speed difference is such that it's very hard for Gray Boy to act.

Even if he were to succesfully use his abilities, Subaru's RBD would overturn it and Subaru would make Emilia act faster.

 

[Franstel]

Subaru and Emilia wins. Emilia just freezes him. The speed difference is such that it's very hard for Gray Boy to act.

Even if he were to succesfully use his abilities, Subaru's RBD would overturn it and Subaru would make Emilia act faster.

GB personal loop is passive and always active. He can also loop back to a previous postion in time to avoid being frozen.

And Gray Boy, squashed against the wall. His heart dropped. ...The corpse flickered, and Gray Boy reappeared, sitting atop the forearm of the hand that had squashed him. He hopped down. His time loop power protected him. Any time he was hurt, any time he was debilitated, his power would kick in, taking him back as far as he needed, allowing him to maintain his position if he wanted. He’d remain conscious, retain any recollection, and with his offensive power, he could shut down any threat.

It was that same power that kept him from aging. Aging was a danger, change was a problem, so he continually retained his appearance from the very moment he’d triggered, reverting back several times an hour, or any time he even got dirty.

How would RDB cancel looping ?

 

[MrTayman616]

GB personal loop is passive and always active. He can also loop back to a previous postion in time to avoid being frozen.

Emilia's freezing is basically time stop.

Why would it even work when he's frozen?

How would RDB cancel looping ?

Going to a moment before it started.

 

[Franstel]

Emilia's freezing is basically time stop.

Time Stop could work but isn't it something that she use as a trump card not right off the bat.

Why would it even work when he's frozen?

Because it proc for every change that affect GB no matter how minor, even things like getting dirty, wet or not having his usual clothes on him triggers his personal loop.

Going to a moment before it started.

Subaru need to die to activate RBD, Gray Boy doesn't kill that's the worst thing about him. He leaves his victims alive in the timeloops forcing them to experience the last fews seconds over and over again for thousands of years with them still conscious inside but unable to do anything to escape not even kill themselves.

 

[MrTayman616]

Time Stop could work but isn't it something that she use as a trump card not right off the bat.

Even if we were to say she won't instantly use it at first, Subaru would make her use it after RBD.

Because it proc for every change that affect GB no matter how minor, even things like getting dirty, wet or not having his usual clothes on him triggers his personal loop.

What defines "Change" here?

I can just argue Emilia's ability wouldn't count as one.

Subaru need to die to activate RBD, Gray Boy doesn't kill that's the worst thing about him. He leaves his victims alive in the timeloops forcing them to experience the last fews seconds over and over again for thousands of years with them still conscious inside but unable to do anything to escape not even kill themselves.

Subaru just kills himself and goes back. He doesn't have to wait Gray Boy to do it.

The others can't kill themselves because they go back even when they do but Subaru has his own time travel to escape while doing it.

 

[Greatsage13th]

What defines "Change" here?

I can just argue Emilia's ability wouldn't count as one.

Change is just any kind of alteration. Being time stopped or frozen is one of those, and they aren't even minor changes, they count as major.

Subaru just kills himself and goes back. He doesn't have to wait Gray Boy to do it.

Gray boy can reverse that, it is on the profile.

 

[MrTayman616]

Change is just any kind of alteration. Being time stopped or frozen is one of those, and they aren't even minor changes, they count as major.

Walking would be an alteration itself then.

Other than obvious applications of the ability, right now i don't see a reason to believe Emilia's ability wouldn't work based on what's written on the profile + explanations here.

Gray boy can reverse that, it is on the profile.

Where?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Walking would be an alteration itself then.

Other than obvious applications of the ability, right now i don't see a reason to believe Emilia's ability wouldn't work based on what's written on the profile + explanations here.

What you believe does not matter. What matters is can you disprove it?

Where?

Apologies, I misread that part. It only applies to healing his own wounds.

But on the other hand, trapping Subaru in a timeloop just makes Subaru RBD in said time loop huh?

 

[Franstel]

What defines "Change" here?

I can just argue Emilia's ability wouldn't count as one.

Getting frozen will affect a regular human body (frostbite, blood pressure increase, hypothermia, etc )

Subaru just kills himself and goes back. He doesn't have to wait Gray Boy to do it.

The others can't kill themselves because they go back even when they do but Subaru has his own time travel to escape while doing it.

There's also the issue of the loops acting as wells that keep powers from leaving it, so Subaru could RBD but still respawn within the loop because RDB couldn't get out.


If you really think that the matchup can't work, who do you think i should change the fighters too ? I originally wanted to do it with Regulus from how similar they are but the fight would just be an incon with them just ignoring anything the other can do.

 

[MrTayman616]

What you believe does not matter. What matters is can you disprove it?

Why would i disprove something that isn't even shown?

But on the other hand, trapping Subaru in a timeloop just makes Subaru RBD in said time loop huh?

No. Why would it, lol.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Why would i disprove something that isn't even shown?

Because nothing invalidates it either.

No. Why would it, lol.

He has never done so.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So, uh, are we going to address the elephant in the room?

Beatrice. Beako. The thing/person Subaru has in his optional equipment. If she isn't excluded, this is going to turn this 1v2 into a 1v3.

Also, IIRC, Emilia is more prone to going close and using CQC than Subaru and Beatrice. And if Subaru sees Emilia trapped, he's just going to loop near-immediately and get knowhow of Grey Boy's power.

 

[MrTayman616]

Getting frozen will affect a regular human body (frostbite, blood pressure increase, hypothermia, etc )

None of it happens.

Emilia's ability is full stop. It causes no change in your body. You don't act, think, feel anything.

There's also the issue of the loops acting as wells that keep powers from leaving it, so Subaru could RBD but still respawn within the loop because RDB couldn't get out.

RBD wouldn't be "in" the loop. It has external causes, like Satella.

Because nothing invalidates it either.

So it can stop 1-A characters because he didn't show that he can't.

I don't need to prove it can't, you have to prove it can.

You're just relying on vague statement that lacks feat. Other than obvious applications, it doesn't mean much.

 

[Greatsage13th]

So it can stop 1-A characters because he didn't show that he can't.

You're not making sense. Are all the cups not in your cupboard?

I don't need to prove it can't, you have to prove it can.

Its on the profile as proof due to the nature of the ability, I don't need to add anything else to the scale.

You're just relying on vague statement that lacks feat. Other than obvious applications, it doesn't mean much.

This is invalid on your part because there isn't anything vague about the ability.

 

[MrTayman616]

Precisely. Unless that 1-A lacks time resistance and possess 3-D body.

This is just no-limit fallacy. (Also 1-A can't lack the resistance as it is beyond it to begin with, no?)

Its on the profile as proof due to the nature of the ability, I don't need to add anything else to the scale.

You do. Or any character with a statement of being "invincible+unbeatable" is infact unbeatable and invincible.

No one claims he has no such ability, but applying it to literally every condition doesn't work.

This is invalid on your part because there isn't anything vague about the ability.

Does he ever start a loop while his time is stopped?

Most of the claims rely on no-limit fallacy here.

 

[Greatsage13th]

This is just no-limit fallacy. (Also 1-A can't lack the resistance as it is beyond it to begin with, no?)

A little late, I already editted my comment you quoted. Reread it again. I just forgot about the system wide change made last year.

You do. Or any character with a statement of being "invincible+unbeatable" is infact unbeatable and invincible.

No one claims he has no such ability, but applying it to literally every condition doesn't work.

Alright, before I accidentally answer in a way that is irrelevant, please do point to me which part do you need help with understanding from below due to how mind-boggling it seems to be from your pov:
Time Manipulation (He can trap opponents in time loops of varying lengths, and he can injure them in these loops to make their pain loop effectively endlessly; he cannot deactivate these loops and they last for thousands of years. His power also reverses time to when he first got his powers constantly, healing lethal wounds)

Does he ever start a loop while his time is stopped?

Most of the claims rely on no-limit fallacy here.

The more obvious question for me to ask is does Emilia even use Absolute Zero right out the bat?

 

[Greatsage13th]

So, uh, are we going to address the elephant in the room?

Beatrice. Beako. The thing/person Subaru has in his optional equipment. If she isn't excluded, this is going to turn this 1v2 into a 1v3.

The OP did not mention anything about the use optional equipments. So, I think we don't need to say anything regarding that.

Also, IIRC, Emilia is more prone to going close and using CQC than Subaru and Beatrice. And if Subaru sees Emilia trapped, he's just going to loop near-immediately and get knowhow of Grey Boy's power.

Yep.

 

[MrTayman616]

A little late, I already editted my comment you quoted. Reread it again. I just forgot about the system wide change made last year.

You're not making sense. Are all the cups not in your cupboard?

Wow, now you make total sense. How can someone refuse a comment like that, no?

Alright, before I accidentally answer in a way that is irrelevant, please do point to me which part do you need help with understanding from below due to how mind-boggling it seems to be from your pov:
Time Manipulation (He can trap opponents in time loops of varying lengths, and he can injure them in these loops to make their pain loop effectively endlessly; he cannot deactivate these loops and they last for thousands of years. His power also reverses time to when he first got his powers constantly, healing lethal wounds)

No one claims he has no such ability, but applying it to literally every condition doesn't work.

The more obvious question for me to ask is does Emilia even use Absolute Zero right out the bat?

Even if we were to say she won't instantly use it at first, Subaru would make her use it after RBD.

 

[Greatsage13th]

No one claims he has no such ability, but applying it to literally every condition doesn't work.

Be more specific, how will it not work here?

Even if we were to say she won't instantly use it at first, Subaru would make her use it after RBD.

Here's a good question: can he RBD out of a timeloop?

 

[Franstel]

So, uh, are we going to address the elephant in the room?

Beatrice. Beako. The thing/person Subaru has in his optional equipment. If she isn't excluded, this is going to turn this 1v2 into a 1v3.

Also, IIRC, Emilia is more prone to going close and using CQC than Subaru and Beatrice. And if Subaru sees Emilia trapped, he's just going to loop near-immediately and get knowhow of Grey Boy's power.

Beatrice is restricted, there's Patrache though since Standard Equipment.

@MrTayman616
Should I just change it to someone else like reinhard vs GB or put someone like Ram instead of Subaru and equalize speed ?

 

[MrTayman616]

Be more specific, how will it not work here?

Timestop. So he can't loop since it's not really a change.

Here's a good question: can he RBD out of a timeloop?

If his savepoint is before the loop starts, yes. No reason he can't. Since it's based on Satella, who gives him reliable savepoints, it's safe to believe it'd be before anything happens.

Should I just change it to someone else like reinhard vs GB or put someone like Ram instead of Subaru and equalize speed ?

Ram instead of Subaru + speed equalization doesn't work as they can't do anything. Emilia's wincon remains but she would never be able to use it as she neither has preknowledge or enough time to reach based on speed equalization.

Not sure about Reinhard, since his extreme intuition and instant EE with very high range.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Timestop. So he can't loop since it's not really a change.

Essentially it falls on Emilia which falls on whether or not the below holds true later on:

If his savepoint is before the loop starts, yes. No reason he can't. Since it's based on Satella, who gives him reliable savepoints, it's safe to believe it'd be before anything happens.

Well, looped time is essentially time that is independent of the linear time where his save point is placed, isn't it? (From what I understand that is, please correct me if I'm wrong). So, would he be able to bypass the time loop by dying or just get stuck there since he is walled of from the main time his save point is located?

 

[MrTayman616]

Well, looped time is essentially time that is independent of the linear time where his save point is placed, isn't it? (From what I understand that is, please correct me if I'm wrong). So, would he be able to bypass the time loop by dying or just get stuck there since he is walled of from the main time his save point is located?

He'd be able to do it. His RBD includes all of it.

It affects other dimensions(where even other authorities didn't show any affect), people whose time is stopped etc.

 

[Greatsage13th]

He'd be able to do it. His RBD includes all of it.

It affects other dimensions(where even other authorities didn't show any affect), people whose time is stopped etc.

Other dimensions? May need to hear more on that.

 

[MrTayman616]

Other dimensions? May need to hear more on that.

The forbidden library. Basically a library that exists in a seperate dimension.

Not saying there are so many other dimensions or etc.

Well, looped time is essentially time that is independent of the linear time where his save point is placed, isn't it? (From what I understand that is, please correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think so. Just manipulating time in a specific way rather than a completely different time.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The forbidden library. Basically a library that exists in a seperate dimension.

Not saying there are so many other dimensions or etc.

Ah, that makes sense.

Hmm... But that would mean GB lacks a wincon in this match now since he has nothing that can completely shut Subaru down.

 

[Franstel]

I think I'll just switch it to Regulus then. At worst it'll be incon and interesting arguments might show up. I can also switch foes again

 

[MrTayman616]

The enemy is someone who can't die by normal means.

Regulus shouldn't have a wincon.

 

[Franstel]

Ok
Then I guess unless someone have another idea I'll ask this to be closed.

 

[MannyQ361]

Would Adam Sandler work as an opponent?

 

[Franstel]

Would Adam Sandler work as an opponent?

Perhaps from a quick look at the profile
Since he is from a different verse it's better for you to do a new thread

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Aldebaran might work

 

[Crimsonobu]

Aldebaran might work

Isnt thay just Inconclusive too? Also Al's profile sucks lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Isnt thay just Inconclusive too? Also Al's profile sucks lol

it is inconclusive and a lot of Als stuff is not on the profile yeah, although i think he could possibly win by forcing a loop on gray boy but idk

who has better willpower feats? i think that would be the deciding factor

 

[Franstel]

I don't think willpower is gonna be a problem for GB, even after getting crushed to death he had no big reaction.

And now that I think about it, GB do have one win con. He control how long the loops are and even the loops he casually summon are so short that Purity could only start speaking word by word after he articificially extended it. So he could make loops that are so short that Al would lack the time to kill himself tous incapping him.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Would Adam Sandler work as an opponent?

Pause GGs probably but hey maybe.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I don't think willpower is gonna be a problem for GB, even after getting crushed to death he had no big reaction.

not enough, Al has tasted every form of dying to the point where he is accustomed to all of them. This doesnt hold a candle.

And now that I think about it, GB do have one win con. He control how long the loops are and even the loops he casually summon are so short that Purity could only start speaking word by word after he articificially extended it. So he could make loops that are so short that Al would lack the time to kill himself tous incapping him.

how is that an incap?

 

[Franstel]

how is that an incap?

Because once trap he'll constantly relive the same instant again and again for thousands of year without the time to do anything to get out. While GB just have too wait for a victory by incapacitation.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Because once trap he'll constantly relive the same instant again and again for thousands of year without the time to do anything to get out. While GB just have too wait for a victory by incapacitation.

Doubt that would work, instead Al can use subjugator in HIS part of the authority to force GB into a forced death loop that will go on till GB is broken. That loop is infinite

Al on the other hand is definitely winning this due to his willpower allowing him to survive that shit