Allow the + next to the tier when there is one (6 pros, 6 cons, 3 don't know)

[CuddleFox]

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I find that removing the + next to the stat in the Tier and not in the attack potency, striking strength and durability often makes things very confusing in verses where there are many of them. If the purpose of removing them is to make the page clearer, the opposite systematically happens when they are present.

In verses like Baki where there are almost as many +'s as normals, it makes things completely unclear, if you don't go and look at the attack potency you can get mistaken about the balance of power between certain characters. For example, an 8-B+ character who is stronger than an At least 8-B, likely higher, character will look weaker if you only look at the tier. This is annoying since the tier is the stat you always look at first. And it took me a long time to notice that two characters I always thought had two keys with identical tiers actually had a plus next to one of them.
It's all the more annoying that the "page" layout inherent to a wiki doesn't allow the global view essential to understand a tier list which already makes things confusing to begin with. For me, it should be the first priority to understand directly the position of a character in the tier list since the whole wiki works with it.

I know this may seem like a minor problem but it's been bugging me for a long time and I sometimes look for tricks in my CRTs to tier differently because I always have this wiki problem in mind.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @Promestein @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Crazylatin77 @Jvando @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Just_a_Random_Butler @ElixirBlue @Dino_Ranger_Black @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @The_Impress @QuasiYuri @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Jasonsith @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @Amelia_Lonelyheart

What do you think about this?

 

[Ogbunabali]

This seems like way too much work for little to no gain. You can easily see whether there is a "+" by scrolling a little. And, this is just a personal opinion, but I don't think it'll look aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with Ogbunabali's points.

 

[KieranH10]

I think it would help and I actually think it would look better too. But I don't think the work required for it to be applied would be worth it.

 

[Armorchompy]

I would agree with it in theory but that's a lot of effort for virtually nothing

 

[Jasonsith]

I think it would help and I actually think it would look better too. But I don't think the work required for it to be applied would be worth it.

If this has to be done so, so be it. It is not the first time to conduct a heavy revamp on character profiles anyway... Just how to locate all such profiles in the first place...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To be fair, this works for profiles that are rated as; "At least Island level, possibly Island level+" examples and other similar formats. But for everything else, I agree with Ogbunabali. It may look a bit better in theory, but in practice. It's just a lot more work with basically little payoff.

 

[Migue79]

I always found it odd that we don’t place ‘+’s on the tier number-letter, but do so down at the justifications. I found it… a bit misleading if you get what I’m saying.

With that said? I don’t think it’s that necessary to edit ‘+’s in to the tiers, especially when we get no significant benefit from this.

 

[KingTempest]

Tbh I like it, it's just too much work.

When editing profiles we have to put "likely/possibly higher" instead of just "6-C+", gets weird.
And the Attack Potency is already so cluttered up with the larger profiles that trying to see if there's a "+" or not is annoying.

So if people are willing to put in that ridiculous amount of work just to see who has a + in their profile... go ahead.

But otherwise? Idk

 

[Damage3245]

I also like it in theory, but I don't think it's worth it to update what would be thousands of profiles.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

To be fair, this works for profiles that are rated as; "At least Island level, possibly Island level+" examples and other similar formats. But for everything else, I agree with Ogbunabali. It may look a bit better in theory, but in practice. It's just a lot more work with basically little payoff.

^ This.

 

[CuddleFox]

I just want to specify that if I made this topic, it's not for nothing, I'm ready to go see the 24000 profiles if necessary, and it's not a joke.
A few months ago I started a huge excel file that indexes the AP's of over 3000 characters I liked just to find matches to organize, that kind of workload doesn't bother me.
At a rate of 500 pages per day, in a month and a half, it will be done. I've even programmed a macro on word to spot the problem pages right away, I could even start now if I had your approvals.

You can easily see whether there is a "+" by scrolling a little.

By scrolling a little is precisely the problem here, you never get to have a global vision of the tier list of a verse unless you spend your life on it, and it's partly because of that. There's not a little number of profiles that have a + somewhere in the AP. And also there are some very big pages with a lot of keys and a lot of tiers that would heavily benefit from it. The goal is not to "look a bit better" on each page individually but allow the users to have a better vision of the tier list of each verse.

 

[KieranH10]

We cant rely on a singular, seemingly new user to make a wiki wide revision. Sorry.

You have 754 edits total, with respect I doubt the workload would be something you would be ready for. Or something even our devoted staff would be either.

The best I can see with this is that, much like a lot of other wiki wide revisions, is that it gets applied slowly over time. But I still don't believe it's worth it either way.

 

[Bobsican]

I find it also nice to apply in theory, but the workload is too high to "just" immediately apply at the moment, and it also isn't a big priority either.
Anyways, this user appears to have been around here for over a year, I'd say they should be experienced enought to at least give them a chance.

 

[KieranH10]

Oh, yes. My apologies, I looked at their wiki profile and didn't realize their edits went so far back.

However, their edit count is still far less than they are insinuating they would supposedly do in a couple days, and the project would need more than one person working on it either way imo.

 

[CuddleFox]

You have 754 edits total, with respect I doubt the workload would be something you would be ready for.

On my last CRT dedicated to Baki I redid twice an entire tier list on a verse with over 100 characters in a few days.
I also did the common feat calcer that there is on the calculators page in one day.
This wiki fascinates me and I have a lot of time and patience to spend on it, it takes up a lot of my free time. ^^
You don't take something you enjoy doing for "a lot of work".

However, their edit count is still far less than they are insinuating they would supposedly do in a couple days

I didn't say in a couple days, but in a month and a half.

 

[Armorchompy]

Personally I'd be willing to give them a chance if it's overtime.

 

[KieranH10]

At a rate of 500 pages per day, in a month and a half

500 pages a day is a lot.

It aint up to me anyways. I'm not saying we shouldn't give them a chance. But it would probably be better to at least have more than one person working on it.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, if this gets accepted I'll at the very least edit it in for all of my profiles, that much is a given. Ain't much, but still, I agree more people might be needed

 

[CuddleFox]

500 pages a day is a lot.

I just tested on 50, it takes me ~8 minutes, it is largely feasible. Approx 1h20 per day.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There's also the issue that a lot of people struggle with lag. Especially happens why tabs repeatedly get opened and closed.

 

[CuddleFox]

What do you mean?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Can't this be handled by a bot very easily though?

 

[CuddleFox]

I don't think it can, some big pages may get kinda ****** up. And pages that have errors such as an AP that mistakenly does not match the tier require a manual check. The work of checking all of them would probably be needed anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who gave input above. I also think that this seems like too much work for limited payoff.

However, if CuddleFox would really be willing to do this work on his own, and is aware of that inspecting every single tier 10 to tier 3 page to check for + signs in the attack potency sections (this can be done via the tier categories linked to in our wiki navigation bar), I suppose that seems reasonable, but he would have to be prepared for that this level of tedious repetitive prolonged work will eventually basically feel like one's brain turns to mush, and he would still need to finish the project.

By my experience, CuddleFox has also displayed more than sufficiently good editing skills to be able to change tier 6-A to 6-A+ and the like.

 

[CuddleFox]

(this can be done via the tier categories linked to in our wiki navigation bar)

I'll do the characters in alphabetical order as one character can be in several tiers.
And of course I'll give you a report on the pages to be modified that are locked as the days go by so that so the staff itself don't have a big workload at the end.

I suppose that seems reasonable, but he would have to be prepared for that this level of tedious repetitive prolonged work will eventually basically feel like one's brain turns to mush

Does that mean I have your permission?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't have the patience for this, it adds little to no value and is too much work for basically the tiniest gain

Also I don't really want the "+" added to the tiers

 

[Antvasima]

Does that mean I have your permission?

You need considerably more staff approval than just from me to apply such a major project, even if you handle it on your own.

We would also need to rewrite our standard rules for this first, and I am not sure if we should mention it in our tiering system page or together with the previous rules about this in the attack potency page.

 

[CuddleFox]

Okay, I will wait for more input then.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I think having the + next to the tier is fine, but only when its clearly calculated to be in the top half of a tier or upscaling if the AP is very close to the + threshold

 

[CuddleFox]

That's already how it works.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. It should only be added if the attack potency section already uses the + sign for tiers 10-C to 3-B.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Agreeing with Ogbunabali's post

 

[AKM sama]

I mean, from what I can gather, the reason + was never used in tiers is because there exists no tier called 8-B+ between 8-B and 8-A. We just add it to attack potency to make an extra distinction of whether the character is on the upper of lower half of that tier, since attack potency section needs to be detailed.

I am ambivalent to this but the amount of work this will require for almost no gain just makes it infeasible.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems like a majority is against this change then.

 

[CuddleFox]

We just add it to attack potency to make an extra distinction of whether the character is on the upper of lower half of that tier, since attack potency section needs to be detailed

The point is that it make things confuse when there are a lot in a single page or in a verse in particular.
It's not almost no gain, pages gain in clarity, that's important because the layout of a wiki gives little clarity to a tier list, which needs to be seen in its entirety to be understood, we should find precision where we can.
It's like a problem we all face but no one reacts to out of habit.
And I am the only one concerned by the amount of work.

Well, it seems like a majority is against this change then.

For what I saw, there are 6 pros (Armorchompy, Bobsican, Damage3245, KingTempest, Psychomaster, Jasonsith), 6 cons (DemonGodMitchAubin, Elizhaa, Ogbunabali, Colonel_Krukov, AKM_sama, Mr_Bambu) and 3 that don't know (Migue79, DarkDragonMedeus, KieranH10)
People seems to just "like it in theory" but think it would be a lot of efforts for not much. But that's more of my problem.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

We likely have more important projects to cover. Not sure on the status of that, but last I knew, there was a few things that needed to be done.

 

[AKM sama]

The point is that it make things confuse when there are a lot in a single page or in a verse in particular.
It's not almost no gain, pages gain in clarity, that's important because the layout of a wiki gives little clarity to a tier list, which needs to be seen in its entirety to be understood, we should find precision where we can.

I get that. I have faced the problem myself. But it's still very little gain to edit about 25000 profiles. Plus, as Kru said, we have much important projects left.