Amai Masking Amai Mask (OPM Supreme Hero Arc Additions)

[Lightning_XXI]

Greetings, I cooked

I was writing this CRT basically as more chapters of Amai Mask's battle against the Pesky Clown were releasing, and now that his arc is completed, I can finally post it. Anyway, at first this was going to be a rather simple CRT with the intention of creating Pesky Clown and revamping Amai Mask's profile, but upon reading through important characters for Amai Mask's scaling, I think a rather small discussion about Fuhrer Ugly actually needs to happen before you guys see what I cooked for them both. Most of the changes, additions and their explanation are on the sandboxes linked below, so I'll focus on the most beautiful cadre here and let you guys carefully read the sandboxes for the rest

- Fuhrer Ugly

Fuhrer Ugly Ap section currently has two keys, however, there are three Fuhrer Uglys to be considered: Base, Vomited and what I consider to be "Mutated" Fuhrer Ugly. Mutated Fuhrer Ugly (Let's call him MFU) comes from his base form after he powered up, as he himself stated, thanks to him feeling more miserable, this is the Fuhrer Ugly that brutalized Amai Mask (more on that later), made soup of Tanktop Master, overpowered Tatsumaki's TK and then got clowned by Silver Fang

At least Mountain level (As a Cadre of the Monster Association, Fuhrer Ugly is considered by Psykos to be superior to the S-Class, and thus should be superior to the likes of Evil Eye. Damaged Sweet Mask), higher with Body Control (Becomes stronger as he feels more miserable. Caved in Sweet Mask's face with a single punch and ripped him in half. Overpowered a weakened Tatsumaki, who casually overpowered and restrained Fubuki, Bang and Bomb moments earlier. Completely brutalized Tanktop Master)

Currently MFU upscales from 7-A, but the very description already mentions him being able to overpower a Tatsumaki that could overpower Bang (and Bomb), which isn't contradictory with his later fight against Bang because Silver Fang very clearly used the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist, which is attack redirection, to defend himself, so it's much more about speed and skill than just raw AP there. MFU is also showcased to make 7-As like Tanktop Master and Gums receive serious damage from his attacks. Also keep in mind that the damage he received here comes from Awakening Breath Bang, who is listed as 2x more powerful than his base form (That was the one Tatsumaki overpowered)

So my idea here is that Mutated Fuhrer Ugly should be High 6-C, scaling from Weakened Tatsumaki who still had enough power to affect characters like Base Silver Fang, it's not contradictory and actually matches how he is portrayed against 7-As. Base Fuhrer Ugly has another scaling problem, since he is scaling to Amai Mask although Amai Mask is scaling to him (Clear circular scaling). When I go for Base Amai Mask scaling, you'll see what more or less should be base Fuhrer Ugly

- Pesky Clown

Now, for the Pesky Clown, this is my sandbox for him

As you can see, I scaled his Dragon level form to High 6-C based on quite an indirect but interesting scaling, since Pesky Clown defeated what I called "Sweet Mask's arrogance". We all know my boy is very arrogant and places himself higher than what he can do, but after fighting with PC's final form at that time, he very clearly conceded to not being able to defeat him in base form. That made me remind of FU because Amai Mask, after healing from his wounds, was fairly confident in returning to the battlefield and to take on MFU and "rip him just like MFU ripped his jeans", which while an interesting claim, do shows how even a hard beating like that didn't went through his arrogance, while PC could (And also shows how Amai Mask could be able to put better fight against Fuhrer Ugly without his Ugmon weakness, and as we now know, he indeed can). Now, I'm not asking you to believe Amai Mask is right he could rip MFU, we are scaling his arrogance and placing Pesky Clown at similar levels to MFU. Also, his Dragon level rating comes from Amai Mask himself, his previous experiences with such levels are, in fact, the Cadres, and Amai Mask personally saw Fuhrer Ugly, Black Sperm, Gums and Homeless Emperor

Now, with Dragon level Pesky Clown being on that level, where is Amai Mask ?

- Amai Mask

I placed him at "At most High 6-C", weaker, but he was still still able to stop Pesky Clown's charge with the hammer, which even surprises Pennywise, and draw blood from him after he was already a Dragon level threat. Considering the current gap between OPM levels (7-A and High 6-C), the difference is way too big for a 7-A do that against someone as bloodlusted as the Pesky Clown. Amai Mask was also attacked numerous times by Bill Skarsgard, including dozens of directs hits directly to his face, and was still able to think, fight back and tank yet another direct hit, doing far better than Tanktop Master did against Ugly, so his Durability must be close to that level in order to even remotely not be reduced to mincemeat, considering Bozo does not hold back at all. Granted, he downscales, is notably weaker and attacks from full High 6-Cs can mess him up if he's not careful, so they are not on the same level. This also doesn't contradict MFU being High 6-C since, not only Amai Mask is downscaling, but his demise with MFU is an even worse case for him since he was super affected by his weakness and completely restrained by Black Sperm on top of that, Base Fuhrer Ugly actually wanted to mutilate his face and even after an extended beatdown, Amai Mask only had a nose bleed. His fight against the Pesky Clown is much more suited to be used for his true power in battle and should be the main focus since he is only operating at his real capacity there, with his weakness likely taxing his overall physical strength, considering what he could do when he had his mind at the right place.

I also want to add a second feat for Amai Mask, which is currently kinda ignored. We are all aware of Amai Mask's arrogance, I went over it here, and usually it's mostly bravado and words, and even part of his mosterization, it happened with Atomic Samurai, it happened with Flash, and we all don't scale him to these guys because, aside from the different feats, it's really up to his words and nothing more, but Metal Bat's case is rather different: They meet after Boros' ship falls down, and Amai Mask directly confronts Metal Bat the most, provoking him in a similar manner to his other cases, although he seems more aware of Metal Bat's base power. However, since Bad is a short tempered ruffian, he doesn't allow Amai Mask to walk away and actually pursues him, as showed on the special Chapter 37.5. Here Amai Mask is stopped, and after some talk, decides to give Metal Bat 1 minute for them to settle things up, contrary to other times, he is, literally, absolutely ready to fight Metal Bat and even when Bad says Amai Mask's phone is ringing, Beaut decides to ignore it because he actually wants to fight there, so it's not a case of empty words. Amai is very aware and protective of his schedule with movies and other recordings, yet he even insists a second time to Bad focus on their fight instead of his sister's call. So I can understand (and agree) to not scale him at all to Atomic or Flash, but his stance against Metal Bat is far different and shows him wanting to use that opportunity to fight. Amai Mask must be aware of Metal Bat's overall base power because he is one of the S Classes he dislikes for being on the S Class, very likely unaware of Fighting Spirit's limits, so in this very specific case, he should scale to Metal Bat's base form (Peak Fighting Spirit is out of the question, obviously). Good for consistency, that's all (Amai Mask's other lower feats already have him superior to Fubuki's Saitama who one shot Ten Shadow Sonic), and fits perfectly with Amai Mask's scaling. This whole encounter was referenced in Chapter 218

With all of that being said, this is my sandbox for Amai Mask

Ended up pretty nice, right ? To my understanding, Base Amai Mask would be the weakest High 6-C if we follow everything I said above

I reworked his whole profile, new manga renders, new descriptions, new gallery, new abilities, new everything


- The Second Version of the CRT


This second part starts with the following question: You agreed with Mutated Fuhrer Ugly being High 6-C ? No ? Then let's dive into scenario B:

With Mutated Fuhrer Ugly being kept at "At least 7-A", massively upscaling from Tanktop Master's 215.1 Megatons feat since he's able to absolutely mutilate poor TTM, the scaling changes a bit. With that, placing Amai Mask at "At most 7-A" (At most 215.1 Megatons of TNT) no longer is necessary because he would be already upscaling from Metal Bat's 100 megatons, those numbers are fairly close and perfectly explains Base Amai Mask being able to somewhat fight back against Pesky Clown but being inferior overall

So no At most

tldr:

Scenario 1:

Base Fuhrer Ugly: At most High 6-C (Matched Base Amai Mask)
Mutated FU: High 6-C (Overpowered Tatsumaki's TK who could hold Bang)
Pesky Clown: High 6-C (Made Amai Mask concede on not being able to defeat him, placed at Dragon level by someone who saw numerous High 6-Cs)
Base Amai Mask: At most High 6-C (Weaker than, but still capable of damaging Pesky Clown)
Monster Amai Mask: At least High 6-C (Negs Pesky Clown's final form)

Scenario 2:

Base Fuhrer Ugly: 7-A (Matched Base Amai Mask - 100 Megatons)
Mutated FU: At least 7-A (Brutalized TTM - 215 Megatons)
Pesky Clown: At least 7-A (Made Amai Mask concede on not being able to defeat him - 215 Megatons)
Base Amai Mask: 7-A (Superior to A Classes, to Fubuki's first impression of Saitama who one shot Sonic, was ready to fight Metal Bat - 100 Megatons)
Monster Amai Mask: At least 7-A, likely higher (Negs Pesky Clown's final form - 215 Megatons)


This CRT's main proposal is Scenario 1, personally, I think Mutated Fuhrer Ugly being High 6-C is a given and already on his profile, we just forgot to give him the actual rating

Amai Mask's profile with Scenario 1

Amai Mask's profile with Scenario 2

Also, keep in mind there are other possible scenarios, for example, you can agree Mutated FU is High 6-C, agree Pesky Clown scales to him, but disagree Base Amai Mask downscales from them (Which would make his base 7-A and his monster form High 6-C). You can also disagree with Pesky Clown even scaling from MFU to begin with (Which would make him just massively upscale to Amai's Base). We could give them both scaling and leave Base Amai Mask "At least 7-A, possibly at most High 6-C". So please take a careful read through the overall scaling, as there are other possible conclusions, I just didn't added every possible scenario because I'm not particularly a fan of the others and rather propose Scenario 1 or, if that sounds wrong, Scenario 2, but take and analyze every step here separately

 

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

Very well explained and thought out CRT, nice work. The issue I see with High 6-C is that Gums does make Ugly bleed when he bites him, so they can’t be majorly far apart (unless the argument is that Bang beating his ass like, softened him up, but that’d require rock solid proof).

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with Scenario 2 of the OP.

 

[MrTayman616]

Fuhrer Ugly Ap section currently has two keys, however, there are three Fuhrer Uglys to be considered: Base, Vomited and what I consider to be "Mutated" Fuhrer Ugly. Mutated Fuhrer Ugly (Let's call him MFU) comes from his base form after he powered up, as he himself stated, thanks to him feeling more miserable, this is the Fuhrer Ugly that brutalized Amai Mask (more on that later), made soup of Tanktop Master, overpowered Tatsumaki's TK and then got clowned by Silver Fang

Bang and Bomb doesn't really resist there, so they shouldn't be included.

So my idea here is that Mutated Fuhrer Ugly should be High 6-C, scaling from Weakened Tatsumaki who still had enough power to affect characters like Base Silver Fang, it's not contradictory and actually matches how he is portrayed against 7-As. Base Fuhrer Ugly has another scaling problem, since he is scaling to Amai Mask although Amai Mask is scaling to him (Clear circular scaling). When I go for Base Amai Mask scaling, you'll see what more or less should be base Fuhrer Ugly

I disagree with scaling him based on Bang and Bomb via Tatsumaki. The reasoning is the same as the one i gave before.

Edit: Not to mention, Bang completely crushed him, the same Furher Ugly that attacked weakened Tatsumaki. So it doesn't work regardless.

As you can see, I scaled his Dragon level form to High 6-C based on quite an indirect but interesting scaling, since Pesky Clown defeated what I called "Sweet Mask's arrogance". We all know my boy is very arrogant and places himself higher than what he can do, but after fighting with PC's final form at that time, he very clearly conceded to not being able to defeat him in base form. That made me remind of FU because Amai Mask, after healing from his wounds, was fairly confident in returning to the battlefield and to take on MFU and "rip him just like MFU ripped his jeans", which while an interesting claim, do shows how even a hard beating like that didn't went through his arrogance, while PC could (And also shows how Amai Mask could be able to put better fight against Fuhrer Ugly without his Ugmon weakness, and as we now know, he indeed can). Now, I'm not asking you to believe Amai Mask is right he could rip MFU, we are scaling his arrogance and placing Pesky Clown at similar levels to MFU. Also, his Dragon level rating comes from Amai Mask himself, his previous experiences with such levels are, in fact, the Cadres, and Amai Mask personally saw Fuhrer Ugly, Black Sperm, Gums and Homeless Emperor

There is no reason for Pesky Clown to scale to those on the higher level of Dragon like Homeless Emperor who no diffed Furher Ugly that ripped Amai Mask apart.

He should just scale to Furher Ugly imo, as he's the only one who he really fought, while his interactions with other cadres was extremely short.

I placed him at "At most High 6-C", weaker, but he was still still able to stop Pesky Clown's charge with the hammer, which even surprises Pennywise, and draw blood from him after he was already a Dragon level threat. Considering the current gap between OPM levels (7-A and High 6-C), the difference is way too big for a 7-A do that against someone as bloodlusted as the Pesky Clown. Amai Mask was also attacked numerous times by Bill Skarsgard, including dozens of directs hits directly to his face, and was still able to think, fight back and tank yet another direct hit, doing far better than Tanktop Master did against Ugly, so his Durability must be close to that level in order to even remotely not be reduced to mincemeat, considering Bozo does not hold back at all. Granted, he downscales, is notably weaker and attacks from full High 6-Cs can mess him up if he's not careful, so they are not on the same level. This also doesn't contradict MFU being High 6-C since, not only Amai Mask is downscaling, but his demise with MFU is an even worse case for him since he was super affected by his weakness and completely restrained by Black Sperm on top of that, Base Fuhrer Ugly actually wanted to mutilate his face and even after an extended beatdown, Amai Mask only had a nose bleed. His fight against the Pesky Clown is much more suited to be used for his true power in battle and should be the main focus since he is only operating at his real capacity there, with his weakness likely taxing his overall physical strength, considering what he could do when he had his mind at the right place.

I already disagree with Fuhrer Ugly scaling to High 6-C there, so there isn't something i can't comment on here.

I also want to add a second feat for Amai Mask, which is currently kinda ignored. We are all aware of Amai Mask's arrogance, I went over it here, and usually it's mostly bravado and words, and even part of his mosterization, it happened with Atomic Samurai, it happened with Flash, and we all don't scale him to these guys because, aside from the different feats, it's really up to his words and nothing more, but Metal Bat's case is rather different: They meet after Boros' ship falls down, and Amai Mask directly confronts Metal Bat the most, provoking him in a similar manner to his other cases, although he seems more aware of Metal Bat's base power. However, since Bad is a short tempered ruffian, he doesn't allow Amai Mask to walk away and actually pursues him, as showed on the special Chapter 37.5. Here Amai Mask is stopped, and after some talk, decides to give Metal Bat 1 minute for them to settle things up, contrary to other times, he is, literally, absolutely ready to fight Metal Bat and even when Bad says Amai Mask's phone is ringing, Beaut decides to ignore it because he actually wants to fight there, so it's not a case of empty words. Amai is very aware and protective of his schedule with movies and other recordings, yet he even insists a second time to Bad focus on their fight instead of his sister's call. So I can understand (and agree) to not scale him at all to Atomic or Flash, but his stance against Metal Bat is far different and shows him wanting to use that opportunity to fight. Amai Mask must be aware of Metal Bat's overall base power because he is one of the S Classes he dislikes for being on the S Class, very likely unaware of Fighting Spirit's limits, so in this very specific case, he should scale to Metal Bat's base form (Peak Fighting Spirit is out of the question, obviously). Good for consistency, that's all (Amai Mask's other lower feats already have him superior to Fubuki's Saitama who one shot Ten Shadow Sonic), and fits perfectly with Amai Mask's scaling. This whole encounter was referenced in Chapter 218

I disagree with this.

Amai Mask was saying these things to every S-Class which even Tatsumaki was present there. Even at Monster HQ arc later, he believed he could kill all of them at the same time. Him wanting to fight against Metal Bat and being one of the heroes he hates in S-Class (which he doesn't actually say that. He just tries to piss him off).

These are my opinions for scaling chain.

---

For the profiles, Pecky Clown should include Immortality Type 3 & Damage Transferal (Alongside Immortality Type 8), as his ballons take his place when the damage is too high for him and he regenerates when they do. Regeneration via ballons scales to Mid as he can fully heal his brain while it was crushed.

Also Reactive Evolution i guess? As he didn't just get stronger, but mutated continuously. Not sure about this though.

Everything else seems fine in the profiles imo, as far as i see.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Amai Mask was saying these things to every S-Class which even Tatsumaki was present there.

You missed the whole point, if that was my argument I wouldn't be scaling him to 7-A but to 6-B+ since he does that with Flash, but it isn't the case here

Even at Monster HQ arc later, he believed he could kill all of them at the same time.

That was clearly a sign of his monsterization taking over his mind, and I included as both Bloodlust and as a Weakness since it makes him dangerously careless. He even pointed out he was keeping his self control right after rejecting those thoughts

The Metal bat situation has Amai Mask both in his right mind and in stance to fight, even more than Metal Bat himself (Since he insisted in the fight two times before running out of time), we must separate what are mere words of arrogance and bravado (Against other S Classes, against Atomic Samurai, against Flash, no fight situation, no fight location, nothing making Amai Mask think his words will start a fight) to an actual fight situation

Fair on the abilities, I'll add them later today, thanks for the input

Very well explained and thought out CRT, nice work. The issue I see with High 6-C is that Gums does make Ugly bleed when he bites him, so they can’t be majorly far apart (unless the argument is that Bang beating his ass like, softened him up, but that’d require rock solid proof).

Yeap, that's the major "flaw" to the High 6-C scaling, it seems scenario B is the best one as Damage pointed

 

[MrTayman616]

we must separate what are mere words of arrogance and bravado (Against other S Classes, against Atomic Samurai, against Flash, no fight situation, no fight location, nothing making Amai Mask think his words will start a fight) to an actual fight situation

Both side showed clear murderous intent and did take it seriously. Also, Metal Bat situation is just the same.

I don't see a real reason for him to scale to Metal Bat based on it.

That was clearly a sign of his monsterization taking over his mind, and I included as both Bloodlust and as a Weakness since it makes him dangerously careless. He even pointed out he was keeping his self control right after rejecting those thoughts

Fair for that moment ig. He was going crazy until Iaian showed up.

You missed the whole point, if that was my argument I wouldn't be scaling him to 7-A but to 6-B+ since he does that with Flash, but it isn't the case here

No, i get what you mean(ig), i just say that i don't really see a difference between both situation, aka why i disagree.

Anyway, i basically agree with scenario 2 without adding the Metal Bat scaling proposal.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with Scenario 2.

 

[Raiden38]

Scenario 2 FRA

 

[Ourosboros]

I agree with scenario 2, both because I agree base Amai Mask seems very likely to be relative to Tanktop Master/base Metal Bat, and because the Pesky Clown scaling is very ambiguous and will not be clarified until the manga brings Amai Mask back into action.

1. Amai Mask's base scaling to 7-A makes sense given our current calcs, but it has broader scaling implications we need to discuss now... Amai Mask's human form in the manga hovers somewhere between low dragon and high demon in the manga, being brutalized by Fuhrer Ugly (base or somewhat enhanced) implies him to be relative to an amped* Tanktop Master and therefore right about the 7-A rating. The problem I notice here is that the Garou who beat TTM and base Metal Bat is 7-C/high 7-C. If we are going to implement these changes we must also update these profiles:

GAROU: Hero Hunter key --> 7-C to 7-A, Half Monster key, 7-A up to high 6-C​

GENOS: Post-Superfight key --> 7-A normally, varies up to High 6-C..., Post-Elder Centipede key --> at least 7-A normally, varies up to High 6-C, etc etc.​

ROYAL RIPPER: (fought Half Monster Garou) 7-A​

BUG GOD: (fought Half Monster Garou) base --> 7-A, transformed --> at least 7-A.​

SENIOR CENTIPEDE: (fought base Metal Bat) 7-A.​

UNIHORN: (fought Half Monster Garou) 7-A.​

SHOWERHEAD: (fought Half Monster Garou) 7-A.​

((I will say it does seem strange to me that we have so many demon-level characters scaling a tier above Vaccine's 7-B energy blasts, but I missed out on the mountain level tanktop master calculation thread while I was away from the internet for a few months.))​

2. Don't agree with the High 6-C scaling for any of the reasons provided in the original prompt for these reasons...​

Just as a quick note, scaling the barely conscious version of Tatsumaki Fuhrer Ugly beat to Silverfang seems incorrect to me- there's nothing I see in chapter 143 to imply Silverfang or Bomb was seriously trying to resist Tatsumaki's telekinesis here, other than maybe the fact they look surprised when the restraints appear. Likewise Pesky Clown defeating "Amai Mask's arrogance" doesn't seem like it means anything to me because if that were a narratively reliable scaling floor then Pesky Clown's first dragon form should scale to at least 6-B, since it would be stronger than Flashy Flash.​

​

Of course, Amai Mask had no idea how Flashy was and he had no idea how strong Atomic was (or he was just delusional), either way using Amai Mask's previous monsterization inspired freakouts for scaling purposes would be unreliable. I think this moment more than anything shows that Amai Mask has learned from previous arcs and he is more conscious of his limits and his duty during the transformation revert scene.​

​

I support your 2nd scenario 7-A scaling, but I would add a "possibly higher with further attention" addendum to Pesky Clown's final key.​

​

3. I would also say Pesky Clown needs three keys. His base form is not the version that challenges Amai Mask, he immediately gets casually one-shot and seems to progress rapidly. I propose​

A. Pre-attention: Varies from 9-B up to 7-C (wolf to demon level)​

B. Post-attention: at least 7-A​

C. Final form: at least 7-A, possibly higher with further attention​

 

[MrTayman616]

Accidentally deleted it

Base Amai Mask: 7-A (Superior to A Classes, to Fubuki's first impression of Saitama who one shot Sonic, was ready to fight Metal Bat - 100 Megatons)

Btw, doesn't he already scale to 7-A in base?

 

[Kachon123]

The problem I notice here is that the Garou who beat TTM and base Metal Bat is 7-C/high 7-C. If we are going to implement these changes we must also update these profiles:

Tanktop Master has 2 keys. The one that is 7-A is the one who was amped by Fubuki, not the one that fought Garou.

 

[Ourosboros]

Tanktop Master has 2 keys. The one that is 7-A is the one who was amped by Fubuki, not the one that fought Garou.

Thank you for correcting me on the keys, although I don't think it disqualifies any of the 7-A demon level upgrades I listed.

Interestingly enough since base Metal Bat is still 7-A regardless of TTM's base strength, given Garou's ability to harm him after some fighting spirit amps, Hero Hunter Garou would have to be 7-A at least with WSRSF to damage him directly, post-Superfight Genos would also have to be physically 7-A to compete with Hero Hunter, Senior Centipede can't be weaker than 7-A because he was fighting on par with base Metal Bat, and then the Royal Ripper + Bug God + Showerhead + Unihorn (Super Mouse has no profile if I understand correctly?) chain follows from Hero Hunter Garou being 7-A in some capacity.

The problem is that Hero Hunter Garou shows himself to be clearly superior to base Metal Bat, who is currently 'at least 7-A', before he fights any of the demon level fighters I've listed.

Either we upscale this demon roster, or we would have to lower Metal Bat's base strength rating. Speaking of, with our current scaling shouldn't base Metal Bat be "at most 7-A in base, up to 6-A with fighting spirit, etc etc with resonance?". Or even "7-B in base, up to 6-A with fighting spirit"? Because....

52 megatons/ 7-B / Vaccine Man << Base Carnage Kabuto < Base Metal Bat

Metal Bat's base only has the 7-A rating because he survived 3 minutes against base Carnage Kabuto. I might be alone in this opinion, but based on the VGS fight between Metal Bat and Base Carnage Kabuto, Metal Bat should be at most equal to base Kabuto right? I don't recall Kabuto entering Carnage mode in their fight nor see that on the transcripts, meaning that 100 megatons > base Metal Bat to an unknown degree, putting his base likely in 7-B+ near the OG calc for this scaling chain.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Accidentally deleted it

Btw, doesn't he already scale to 7-A in base?

It happens

He downscales from 215 megatons with or without Metal Bat's scaling

Stuff

I really appreciate your input, but please let's talk about these characters on another CRT, this one is for Amai Mask and Pesky Clown, let's keep it simple for the incomings mods to vote

 

[Kachon123]

Interestingly enough since base Metal Bat is still 7-A regardless of TTM's base strength, given Garou's ability to harm him after some fighting spirit amps, Hero Hunter Garou would have to be 7-A at least with WSRSF to damage him directly, post-Superfight Genos would also have to be physically 7-A to compete with Hero Hunter, Senior Centipede can't be weaker than 7-A because he was fighting on par with base Metal Bat, and then the Royal Ripper + Bug God + Showerhead + Unihorn (Super Mouse has no profile if I understand correctly?) chain follows from Hero Hunter Garou being 7-A in some capacity.

Only Metal Bat's AP scales to 7-A, not his durability. You could scale the durability of Senior Centipede carapace to 7-A, but the statement for Genos was directly only for his upgraded attacks, which are already scaled to 7-A on his profile. You can read the justifications on Genos and Garou's pages to understand the scaling.

The problem is that Hero Hunter Garou shows himself to be clearly superior to base Metal Bat, who is currently 'at least 7-A', before he fights any of the demon level fighters I've listed.

In terms of physical strength? I'm not too sure.

with our current scaling shouldn't base Metal Bat be "at most 7-A in base, up to 6-A with fighting spirit, etc etc with resonance?". Or even "7-B in base, up to 6-A with fighting spirit"? Because....

52 megatons/ 7-B / Vaccine Man << Base Carnage Kabuto < Base Metal Bat

Metal Bat's base only has the 7-A rating because he survived 3 minutes against base Carnage Kabuto. I might be alone in this opinion, but based on the VGS fight between Metal Bat and Base Carnage Kabuto, Metal Bat should be at most equal to base Kabuto right? I don't recall Kabuto entering Carnage mode in their fight nor see that on the transcripts, meaning that 100 megatons > base Metal Bat to an unknown degree, putting his base likely in 7-B+ near the OG calc for this scaling chain.

Base Carnage Kabuto upscales from Vaccine Man to 100 Megatons as he's stated to be in an incomparably higher tier than anyone else. Metal Bat's AP scales to Base Kabuto, so he'd also be 100 Megatons.

 

[Ourosboros]

Only Metal Bat's AP scales to 7-A, not his durability. You could scale the durability of Senior Centipede carapace to 7-A, but the statement for Genos was directly only for his upgraded attacks, which are already scaled to 7-A on his profile. You can read the justifications on Genos and Garou's pages to understand the scaling.

I am sorry that I have forced you onto a tangent involving supporting characters, when it's not directly tied to the vote here as Lightning pointed out, but to finish my point about Metal Bat I believe we should revisit his 7-A scaling and all scaling chains tied to his base form, as I think both scaling his base AP to Carnage Kabuto is a bit much (it should be downscaled into 7-B imho) and separating his durability and AP by a factor of 330x~ (using highball High 7-C 303 kt dura) or 3,125x (using lowball 7-C 32 kt dura) is too much.

In terms of physical strength? I'm not too sure.

Oh no, certainly not in terms of physical strength. However, given the current 300x - 3,000x gap between Garou and Metal Bat's AP, it is an insane showing for WSRSF's attack deflection ability for Garou to be able to deflect attacks easily several thousand times higher than his AP (considering the fighting spirit amp Metal Bat is clearly getting as the fight goes on + the original gap) for multiple fight sequences, most of it casually. The fact that Metal Bat never got close to hitting Garou until he was very, very pumped at the end is what I mean when I say "[Garou is] clearly superior". This is something I would like discussed, if WSRSF is that cracked, a large island level character like Bang could hypothetically compete with our 6-B+s like Gouketsu, Platinum S and the Meteor in a limited way via multipliers.

... already scaled to 7-A on his profile. You can read the justifications on Genos and Garou's pages to understand the scaling.

I have to be somewhat pedantic here to give myself some credit. The reason I don't comment on this site is that it's too time-consuming to say anything accurate and worthwhile with my work schedule and internet access. I just wouldn't have interrupted this thread to make a tangent on foundational scaling chains if I hadn't already spent a couple of hours going through all of the character profiles involved, as well as where their keys scaled, and any other relevant scaling relationships.

 

[Kachon123]

I am sorry that I have forced you onto a tangent involving supporting characters, when it's not directly tied to the vote here as Lightning pointed out, but to finish my point about Metal Bat I believe we should revisit his 7-A scaling and all scaling chains tied to his base form, as I think both scaling his base AP to Carnage Kabuto is a bit much (it should be downscaled into 7-B imho) and separating his durability and AP by a factor of 330x~ (using highball High 7-C 303 kt dura) or 3,125x (using lowball 7-C 32 kt dura) is too much.

Carnage Kabuto would not be in an incomparably higher league than someone who can clash with him in a frontal assault for 3 minutes straight. Just because he can't last in a battle doesn't mean his actual striking strength isn't relative.

Oh no, certainly not in terms of physical strength. However, given the current 300x - 3,000x gap between Garou and Metal Bat's AP, it is an insane showing for WSRSF's attack deflection ability for Garou to be able to deflect attacks easily several thousand times higher than his AP (considering the fighting spirit amp Metal Bat is clearly getting as the fight goes on + the original gap) for multiple fight sequences, most of it casually. The fact that Metal Bat never got close to hitting Garou until he was very, very pumped at the end is what I mean when I say "[Garou is] clearly superior". This is something I would like discussed, if WSRSF is that cracked, a large island level character like Bang could hypothetically compete with our 6-B+s like Gouketsu, Platinum S and the Meteor in a limited way via multipliers.

The wiki doesn't work with multipliers like that. I also don't believe that the gap is that big, but since its a fact that they don't scale to each other (Garou and Metal Bat's AP), we can't just arbitrarily backscale into the same value.

 

[Damage3245]

I am sorry that I have forced you onto a tangent involving supporting characters, when it's not directly tied to the vote here as Lightning pointed out, but to finish my point about Metal Bat I believe we should revisit his 7-A scaling and all scaling chains tied to his base form, as I think both scaling his base AP to Carnage Kabuto is a bit much (it should be downscaled into 7-B imho) and separating his durability and AP by a factor of 330x~ (using highball High 7-C 303 kt dura) or 3,125x (using lowball 7-C 32 kt dura) is too much.

I have a thread in the works planned for this, just waiting for things to quiet down before I get it finished and posted.

 

[Ourosboros]

I agree with scenario 2... [original comment]

To strip my original input of the commentary on 7-A base Metal Bat and the chainscaling demon-level gang, I'll repeat my core points.

1. I support base Amai Mask being 7-A on the condition that Tanktop Master was still amped by the time he got brutalized by 'mutated Fuhrer Ugly'...

...the Metal Bat scaling is more contentious for reasons I've already talked too much about, but I am fine with the Metal Bat confrontation just being used as supporting evidence (It does require using narrative implications a bit but I am sure all of us here would agree that base Metal Bat is one of the s-class whose power Amai understands, even if he has no idea about the 'pumped up state')​

2. Don't agree with the scenario 1 High 6-C scaling based on Tatsumaki temporarily restraining Bang and Bomb, or Amai Mask threatening various High 6-C heroes...

...Amai Mask is an unreliable narrator because he's dealing with monsterized induced-psychosis, his statements should only be used carefully in proper context and I think Amai Mask was straight up 'tweaking', by thinking that he could easily kill Atomic Samurai. I also don't see Bang struggling to break out of Tatsumaki's restraints or any clear reason to suggest he really wanted to. Also, lifting strength vs AP could be a factor here.​

​

3. I suggest we add a third key for Pesky Clown: pre-attention. Pesky Clown is a character that could have many, many different keys based on the progressive nature of his accelerated development/empowerment, but I want to emphasize that Pesky Clown did not start anywhere close to dragon level and only reached that point because of very specific circumstances.

A. Pre-attention: at least 9-B (stronger than child Saitama calc as a wolf level threat), possibly higher (easily defeated the former Narinki mercenaries who are of unknown strength without their battle suits)​

B. Post attention: varies, up to at least 7-A (scaling above base Amai)​

C. Final Form: at least 7-A, possibly higher (scaling yet higher still)​

 

[Ourosboros]

Carnage Kabuto would not be in an incomparably higher league than someone who can clash with him in a frontal assault for 3 minutes straight. Just because he can't last in a battle doesn't mean his actual striking strength isn't relative.

Well, it's just that base Kabuto's baseline 7-A, I suggested slightly downscaling Metal Bat, not ignoring their exchange entirely. Besides your point about CK being in an 'incomparably higher league' also reflects on Metal Bat's durability in my opinion. We'll need to have a larger discussion on this later, and I'm not sure if I can participate (I have a day off today, and someone posted about VSBW, otherwise, I wouldn't be here).

The wiki doesn't work with multipliers like that. I also don't believe that the gap is that big, but since its a fact that they don't scale to each other (Garou and Metal Bat's AP), we can't just arbitrarily backscale into the same value.

My point was rhetorical to show how large the discrepancy is. Besides, as Silverfang says to Fuhrer Ugly in chapter 144 "'Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist' is the ultimate defense against any attack, no matter how much power you put behind it. For me, your punches would be no more than leaves floating in a raging river", so I want to give some credit to the counterargument that WSRSF's attack deflection is less of a quantifiable amp and moreso a huge hax that can transcend tiering (under compatible circumstances and within reason). Not that I believe that, but it's a discussion that should be had.

 

[MrTayman616]

I support base Amai Mask being 7-A on the condition that Tanktop Master was still amped by the time he got brutalized by 'mutated Fuhrer Ugly'...

Tanktop Master fought against a stronger Fuhrer Ugly though.

It does require using narrative implications a bit but I am sure all of us here would agree that base Metal Bat is one of the s-class whose power Amai understands, even if he has no idea about the 'pumped up state'

There is literally no proof of him being aware of how strong Metal Bat is, even in base.

He declared himself as superior to Atomic Samurai in front of him, which he was visibly calm, i'd argue even more than his moment with Metal Bat.

This statement, narratively, is on the same level as his moment with Metal Bat. Both of them are not enough to be used.

 

[Ourosboros]

Tanktop Master fought against a stronger Fuhrer Ugly though.

That is true, but we scale Fuhrer Ugly at his most base level above Tanktop Master at the moment.

I agree with that, because while it is possible that amped Tanktop Master >> base Fuhrer Ugly, Gums was also overwhelming amped TTM. So I think it's fair to say that the base Fuhrer Ugly who clowned on Amai >= Tanktop Master and that Amai is therefore ultimately comparable to the 215 megaton feat, whether he's equal or somewhat downscales is debatable, I suppose.

He declared himself as superior to Atomic Samurai in front of him, which he was visibly calm, i'd argue even more than his moment with Metal Bat.

This statement, narratively, is on the same level as his moment with Metal Bat. Both of them are not enough to be used.

I'm glad to see we mostly agree on this point. As I said in my second point on this linked comment, Amai Mask is an unreliable narrator, and if his statements are to be used, they need to be used in their proper context. Which is why I wouldn't support scaling Amai to 7-A purely off confidence scaling, like you say, he may not know how strong Metal Bat is even in base.

That's why I prefer to only use this feat in a 'supporting' capacity. What we do know about Amai is that he closely monitors the recorded activities of other heroes for PR purposes, which is why he knows about Puri Puri's loss at the hands of DSK.

This is where narrative vibes we can't use for proper scaling come into play-- one supposes that Metal Bat has fought multiple demon-level-threats based on his intro line (chapter 30), "demon or dragon, whatever, just lemme take care of it!" + the fact that he beat the tooth-demon to enter the S-class in the first place. Given that Metal Bat was the second choice to bodyguard Narinki and his son when King said he wasn't available ( chapter 52 https://**********/read/gist/OPM/52/5/), some of that record is being recorded, and Amai will have seen that record, given his tendencies to stalk the S-class and other highly ranked heroes.

Meaning that if Metal Bat has ever gotten scuffed up fighting a demon level monster before his chapter 30 debut, Amai Mask knows that, he would have a reasonably good ballpark of how strong base Metal Bat is. Again, there's multiple assumptions there which are grounded in on screen statements and showings, but not explicit. Please recognize, that I do not see Amai's cocky statement here as definitive proof but only potential scaling that needs more explicit proof if it's even going to be mentioned in his profile.

Comparing Amai's taunt against Metal Bat to his "I'm better than you" moment with Atomic Samurai, his statements and his record, suggests that Atomic Samurai has limited or no record of struggling with monsters given the fact that dragons used to be very rare and that he's a glass cannon who's not generally going to be in prolonged fights even with 'equals'.

 

[MrTayman616]

That is true, but we scale Fuhrer Ugly at his most base level above Tanktop Master at the moment.

I agree with that, because while it is possible that amped Tanktop Master >> base Fuhrer Ugly, Gums was also overwhelming amped TTM. So I think it's fair to say that the base Fuhrer Ugly who clowned on Amai >= Tanktop Master and that Amai is therefore ultimately comparable to the 215 megaton feat, whether he's equal or somewhat downscales is debatable, I suppose.

It is possible and logical that Fuhrer Ugly (against Amai Mask) was still superior to enhanced TTM, but there really isn't much of a reasoning for scaling other than "making sense" as far as i see it

I'm glad to see we mostly agree on this point. As I said in my second point on this linked comment, Amai Mask is an unreliable narrator, and if his statements are to be used, they need to be used in their proper context. Which is why I wouldn't support scaling Amai to 7-A purely off confidence scaling, like you say, he may not know how strong Metal Bat is even in base.

That's why I prefer to only use this feat in a 'supporting' capacity. What we do know about Amai is that he closely monitors the recorded activities of other heroes for PR purposes, which is why he knows about Puri Puri's loss at the hands of DSK.

This is where narrative vibes we can't use for proper scaling come into play-- one supposes that Metal Bat has fought multiple demon-level-threats based on his intro line (chapter 30), "demon or dragon, whatever, just lemme take care of it!" + the fact that he beat the tooth-demon to enter the S-class in the first place. Given that Metal Bat was the second choice to bodyguard Narinki and his son when King said he wasn't available ( chapter 52 https://**********/read/gist/OPM/52/5/), some of that record is being recorded, and Amai will have seen that record, given his tendencies to stalk the S-class and other highly ranked heroes.

Meaning that if Metal Bat has ever gotten scuffed up fighting a demon level monster before his chapter 30 debut, Amai Mask knows that, he would have a reasonably good ballpark of how strong base Metal Bat is. Again, there's multiple assumptions there which are grounded in on screen statements and showings, but not explicit. Please recognize, that I do not see Amai's cocky statement here as definitive proof but only potential scaling that needs more explicit proof if it's even going to be mentioned in his profile.

Comparing Amai's taunt against Metal Bat to his "I'm better than you" moment with Atomic Samurai, his statements and his record, suggests that Atomic Samurai has limited or no record of struggling with monsters given the fact that dragons used to be very rare and that he's a glass cannon who's not generally going to be in prolonged fights even with 'equals'.

If anything, he'd know better about Atomic Samurai. Known as the strongest swordmaster and a rival to Bang.

Amai Mask is arrogant, regardless of his emotional state. He did it against both MB and Atomic Samurai while being in a calm state.

Also even in that case, he'd just scale to the strongest monster Metal Bat defeated up to that point rather than Metal Bat himself as that's what he'd know based on his victories and monsters he faced against. In the end, it's just speculation imo.

It might be the case, sure. But not enough for scaling in my opinion.

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Ourosboros]

It is possible and logical that Fuhrer Ugly (against Amai Mask) was still superior to enhanced TTM, but there really isn't much of a reasoning for scaling other than "making sense" as far as i see it

I wouldn't say implying base Fuhrer Ugly and Gums are comparable to each other is just 'making sense'.

The alternative is implying there is an unbridgeable gap between Gums and base Fuhrer, AKA suggesting that mutated Fuhrer Ugly became incomparably more powerful just because he was temporarily restrained by Tatsumaki. I think a vague upscale and downscale as shown in the 7-A second scenario better suits the situation. If Fuhrer Ugly's humiliation amp was strong to the point that any slight inconvenience counts as a significant humiliation with a 10x power-up, he'd probably be strong enough to survive Monster Garou's first kick lol (since he was already able to survive that combo from Homeless Emperor and Golden S which should have considerably amped him).

That huge gap which would put base Fuhrer in... High 7-C? I'm not sure. That's the only alternative to vaguely downscaling base Fuhrer from mutated Fuhrer and human Amai Mask from base Fuhrer, but you supported the second option scaling chain which includes this justification, no?

It looks like:

amped TTM (200 Megatons) << Mutated Fuhrer > Base Fuhrer > human Amai Mask, which would mean amped TTM >= human Amai Mask

If anything, he'd know better about Atomic Samurai. Known as the strongest swordmaster and a rival to Bang.

I don't agree with that, he would know about Atomic Samurai's reputation and the fact that he's presumably beaten every monster the Hero Association has sent his way (hence his attitude circa the MA arc and his rank as number 4, bro must be active af). That would give Amai Mask a power floor for Atomic that would be probably be like "well he's stronger than other swordsmen, whom I probably know nothing about and he's beaten a lot of demon level monsters without much difficulty'

Amai Mask is arrogant, regardless of his emotional state. He did it against both MB and Atomic Samurai while being in a calm state.

That is true

Also even in that case, he'd just scale to the strongest monster Metal Bat defeated up to that point rather than Metal Bat himself as that's what he'd know based on his victories and monsters he faced against. In the end, it's just speculation imo.

It's speculation, which is why it can only be used as supporting evidence.

The speculation is as follows: Metal Bat took damage in his second on-panel fight, against two demon levels and was pushed to the point of using a little fighting spirit. Metal Bat has a very good understanding of how his fighting spirit works at that point and during the VGS simulation audiobook. This would require him to have taken damage in fights in order to feel it out. Metal Bat was 15 when he joined the HA, and is now 17. Unless he gained his intimate knowledge of fighting spirit's damage boost before he entered the S-class around 15-16, then he would have gained it during fights with the demon level threats he would be facing during his year+ time in the s-class, fights that would be recorded by the HA.

If Metal Bat ran into any monster around high demon level, there is a solid chance he would take damage or willingly resort to fighting spirit, which would likely be noted by the HA and make its way to Amai Mask. I find it very likely that A) Metal Bat fought at least one demon level during his HA tenure at least somewhat relative to Senior Centipede, B) he took damage in that fight or harmed himself to activate fighting spirit, C) Amai Mask read the reports mentioning the fight and damage involved.

To use the English expression, I would say Amai Mask's arrogance concerning the s-class is like "a broken clock being right twice a day". Amai assumes he is stronger than Atomic Samurai and many other S-class despite having no concrete evidence of that, however in Metal Bat's case I find it very likely that Amai knows what sort of monster can hurt (Base) Metal Bat, and so when he shows willingness to fight Metal Bat he is not being entirely illogical (although he is obviously underestimating Fighting spirit which would potentially kick his butt).

Amai Mask's estimation of Metal Bat's power in this case might be comparable to that of his estimation of PPP's power, in the sense that Amai is like "oh, PPP got his butt kicked by a demon level, bad PR. Metal Bat is getting all scuffed up by Demon levels, bad PR. I wouldn't stoop that low".

Based on all that, I would support including a note like "considers his human form comparable to Base Metal Bat" in Amai's revised AP section for his human key. So long as the primary justification comes through TTM's calc and chainscaling via Fuhrer Ugly

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Ourosboros]

Bump

What needs to happen now? How many votes for option 2 do we need? Is more mod approval necessary?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I already messaged more mods

 

[Ourosboros]

Bumping this thread. Though it seems unlikely anyone will see it without extensive advertising

 

[Recon1511]

No point in bringing up Metal Bat for these scaling discussions, his durability is wildly inconsistent and trying to make anyone scale to it completely breaks our scaling chains.

 

[Ourosboros]

No point in bringing up Metal Bat for these scaling discussions, his durability is wildly inconsistent and trying to make anyone scale to it completely breaks our scaling chains.

Well, it's a bit late for that Recon. I could delete all the comments I made regarding Metal Bat's durability but if I did, the discussion after them wouldn't make much sense to those visiting the thread later

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Ourosboros]

Bump

 

[KLOL506]

@Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Vietthai96 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist @Qawsedf234 Please help review the CRT of a verse with a frame rate so low you can see the whole thing on IMDB

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Scenerio 2 looks good to me.

 

[Kachon123]

Please help review the CRT of a verse with a frame rate so low you can see the whole thing on IMDB

You're evil

 

[KLOL506]

You're evil

Oh I can go much, much lower than this, believe that.

 

[Elizhaa]

Scenario 2 looks fine.

 

[Ourosboros]

Votes so far are...

Scenario 1 / High 6-C scaling chain: (0)

Scenario 2 / 7-A scaling chain: (7) damage3245 (mod), Dark Dragon Medeus (mod), Elizhaa (mod) MrTayman616*, Kachon123, Raiden38, Ourosboros

Opposed to all changes: (0)

Unclear: (1) Rayquaza**

*MrTayman supports scenario 2 bar the mention of Amai Mask's willingness to attack base 7-A Metal bat in his the Attack Potency Section of his new profile.

**Raquaza expressed support for the CRT but was uncertain about some components of the scenario 1 / High 6-C scaling chain.

 

[Recon1511]

Pretty sure this CRT can be applied

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I will apply it

Thank you for all the replies, this was a nice thread and I'm happy I can revamp Amai Mask's profile, this can be closed