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This would work if Dante’s madness hax is 3D but it’s 4-D
It’s not regenning from 4-D layers
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Anos VS Dante
- Thread starter Spectra_Schiffer
- Start date
It’s not regenning from 4-D layers
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,060
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Regeneration has nothing to do with dimensionality as far as I remember.
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This would only matter if the Madness Hax also negated Regen to an equal degree.
From what I can tell, this comes down to whether or not Dante can Madness Hax, Anos's sword, which has no mind, or ability to perceive things. He has apparently done that in the past, so now it's about 'What' he did it to.
If he madness haxed a wall, then there's no reason he should be able to do the same to a concept. Just like we don't assume Fire Manipulation that can melt a mountain can also burn space and time, unless it's been shown to or has burned similarly abstract things.
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I remember dimensionality bypasses regen
Like if my soul hax is 7-D and your ass is 3-D then you can’t regen from that even with high godly regen
Venuz is not regenerating Anos from 20+ layers of passive 4-D soul crush here since the regen is 3-D
also wtf i just noticed this in Venus' profile
"Venuzdonoa can only be used in either the vicinity of the Demon King Castle Delsgade. The Demon King Castle Delsgade can be summoned via Demon King Castle Summon <Delsgade>."
Anos has to summon Venuz so its not even passive
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Higher-D Hax doesn't gain regeneration negation just because it's higher-d. If I erase a soul with 3-D Hax and then with 4-D Hax, the only difference in the level of potency, the end result is the same, and therefore the method of regeneration is the same. The only reason higher-d hax would cancel out lower-d regeneration is if the higher-d hax affected the soul on a more fundamental or deeper level than your average 3-D Hax, and this somehow made it harder to regen from in-verse.
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Well, someone said he simply used it on inanimate objects.
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people keep telling me Higher D hax bypasses and other people are telling me it doesn't matter
i think i should just make a question and answers thread about this with a staff member answering
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,060
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I'm pretty sure DT and other staff commented this in many threads that Higher dimensionality doesn't bypass Regeneration and NEP
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lets wait for a staff member and see what happens
i made the thread
also wtf is this thing about Venuz im reading about?
"Venuzdonoa can only be used in either the vicinity of the Demon King Castle Delsgade. The Demon King Castle Delsgade can be summoned via Demon King Castle Summon <Delsgade>."
The fight is taking place in New York, not Demon King Castle Delsgade and it has to be summoned so its not even passive
So if Anos commits death, Venuzdonua wont even be there because it has to be summoned and can only be used in Demon King Castle Delsgade
By that time, Anos is already madness haxed because Dante's hax is actually passive
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Georredannea15
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You're wrong about NEP. Higher-dimensional energy and range in the new NEP standards, bypass it
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EldemadeDityjon
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yes you are right about this
but there is new information about Venuzdonua i just saw on the profile
"Venuzdonoa can only be used in either the vicinity of the Demon King Castle Delsgade. The Demon King Castle Delsgade can be summoned via Demon King Castle Summon <Delsgade>."
SBA assumes the fight is in New York Central Park not the Demon King Castle Delsgade so Venuzdonua cant even be used to regenerate Anos in the first place, also becase of the fact that he has to summon it. Dante's passive madness hax>Anos having the time to summon Venuz
So Anos himself is getting passively madness haxed over and over again, without having the chance to use Venuz
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Higher D hax doesn't negate everything lower D, neither does having higher D hax make you interact with something you can't interact with normally. Who says Venuz is 3D in the first place? It's a freaking 4D concept.
This vs thread aside, what @CodeCCLL said is true. Madness type 3 hax is one of the most dogshit abilities currently on the wiki. It assumes it works based on perception but in reality, at least 90% of profiles on the wiki have it for inducing unexplainable madness that don't have a sufficient description that falls into type 1 or 2 madness hax. I'm almost certain DMC supporters can't provide evidence of DMC madness being inflicted through perceiving something complex so to actually use the wiki definition to justify this when the hax doesn't work that way is BS.
This also got me thinking and I arrived at 2 questions; if type 3 madness hax (T3MH) is the observer driving themselves crazy based on trying to understand something complex, in other words haxing themselves,
- how can layered T3MH be a thing?
- Why does it bypass biological and metaphysical mental resistances?
At the same time it shouldn't bypass mental resistance as the observers are the ones driving themselves insane. Why do we assume that their ability to drive themselves crazy suddenly is greater than whatever resistances or protection their mental faculties possess? I feel it may be time for this ability to be revised if not purged entirely.
Now back to this shit storm of a match, this thread would've aged well once everyone realizes madness, chaos etc only makes phantom demons like Anos stronger. Sure some of them (the fodder) might go insane but it doesn't incap them rather makes them ferocious and animalistic at worse causing them to do their possible best to devour their prey with no regards to themselves or their surroundings. So yeah, all Dante is gonna do is make Anos bloodlusted
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Yes spaceman went over this already
I have to assume Venuz is 3-D tho because it doesn't have higher dimensional existence, just 4-D attack potency
i agree that madness hax is an ass ability but currently type 3 madness hax is accepted on the profiles so there is no option but to use it
Because someone who already has resistance to type 3 madness manip was not able to resist the other character's madness manip?? that's how layers work?? if you dont like the layers then go to the hax layer eval thread or make a QNA
You are arguing things that are not on the profile
Anos does not have resistance to type 3 and DMC's madness hax works differently to the phantom demons
but yeah this thread should be closed
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This part is over, Madness is not working on Venuz, since Venuz is literally a concept, and assuming that his madness hax is capable of affecting a literal concept without any feats would be NLF.
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I agree but Venuz can't even be used in this match
Weakness: Venuzdonoa can only be used in either the vicinity of the Demon King Castle Delsgade. The Demon King Castle Delsgade can be summoned via Demon King Castle Summon <Delsgade>.
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He summons Venuzdonoa and the castle together, it can be used, the only point is whether he will be able to use it.
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yeah he has to actively summon it while Dante's hax is passive
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Match starts with Anos already having Venuzdonoa so Delzgade is there already, also queue Venuzdonoa arriving on it's own with Delzgade and destroying an enemy without Anos summoning it first.
I drew a magic circle in front of me. The passing divine scythe of turmoil easily cut off my head.
“Did you decide that you wouldn't die just because your head would fly off your shoulders?”
Grabbing my head as it flew into the air, he smiled. The order of the divine scythe of turmoil killed my body. I tried to draw a magic circle, but the magic did not activate.
“Have you decided that you can use Ingal even if you only have the source left?” – he looked with his magical eyes at the head that was left of me. – The divine scythe of turmoil plunges all things into chaos. What should happen does not happen and vice versa. Graham said, as if it were natural and as if answering a question I hadn’t asked. - I know that you won’t perish anyway. The closer the source is to destruction, the brighter it will shine. You will overcome destruction, just as I return to being through non-being.
Graham twisted the braid and let it go.
“That’s why I won’t destroy you.”
The divine scythe of turmoil again took the form of the god of madness Aganzon in mended clothes.
“So I’ll rebirth you as Gigerica.” In Aganzon’s womb, where order is disturbed, you will forever remain a fetus that will never be born.
He drew the Gigerica magic circle on my head. The same magic circle appeared on Aganzon’s stomach, which already had the formula built into it. My body fell apart and, turning into black light particles, began to rise into the sky. The head in his hand gradually turned into black light.
"You will be able to watch all the time as I continue to reshape the world you love so much with hatred and ugliness, being next to me." – he said with a kind look. “I will make sure that we can understand each other, Anos, no matter how long it takes: at least ten, at least twenty thousand years.”
The black light disappeared completely and the Gigerica spell was activated. At that moment, a shadow covered Graham's face. And so gigantic that it covered the entire place. Raising his head upward, he saw the sky of the underground depths through a hole in the ceiling made by a fierce battle, but at the same time he did not notice the sky canopy that should have been above him since it was obscured by a huge castle hovering directly above Everastoansetta.
"It's Delzgade..."
As soon as he muttered these words, the castle threw something towards Everastoansetta. Having broken through many floors and ceilings, it fell to its lowest floor - into the Hall of the Holy Thrones.
...and...
A long sword shining with a dark color pierced the god of madness Aganzon. Abolisher of Reason, Venuzdonoa. The shadow Venuzdonoa cast on the floor changed its form from a sword to a humanoid. The shadow became three-dimensional, stood up and took the Reason Destroyer.
"You decided that if I was reborn, I would take it and obediently be reborn?"
The shadow turned inside out and I appeared in the hall, not changed at all. The Reason Destroyer destroyed both the Gigerica and the disorder of the divine scythe of turmoil.
“Did you decide that you wouldn't die just because your head would fly off your shoulders?”
Grabbing my head as it flew into the air, he smiled. The order of the divine scythe of turmoil killed my body. I tried to draw a magic circle, but the magic did not activate.
“Have you decided that you can use Ingal even if you only have the source left?” – he looked with his magical eyes at the head that was left of me. – The divine scythe of turmoil plunges all things into chaos. What should happen does not happen and vice versa. Graham said, as if it were natural and as if answering a question I hadn’t asked. - I know that you won’t perish anyway. The closer the source is to destruction, the brighter it will shine. You will overcome destruction, just as I return to being through non-being.
Graham twisted the braid and let it go.
“That’s why I won’t destroy you.”
The divine scythe of turmoil again took the form of the god of madness Aganzon in mended clothes.
“So I’ll rebirth you as Gigerica.” In Aganzon’s womb, where order is disturbed, you will forever remain a fetus that will never be born.
He drew the Gigerica magic circle on my head. The same magic circle appeared on Aganzon’s stomach, which already had the formula built into it. My body fell apart and, turning into black light particles, began to rise into the sky. The head in his hand gradually turned into black light.
"You will be able to watch all the time as I continue to reshape the world you love so much with hatred and ugliness, being next to me." – he said with a kind look. “I will make sure that we can understand each other, Anos, no matter how long it takes: at least ten, at least twenty thousand years.”
The black light disappeared completely and the Gigerica spell was activated. At that moment, a shadow covered Graham's face. And so gigantic that it covered the entire place. Raising his head upward, he saw the sky of the underground depths through a hole in the ceiling made by a fierce battle, but at the same time he did not notice the sky canopy that should have been above him since it was obscured by a huge castle hovering directly above Everastoansetta.
"It's Delzgade..."
As soon as he muttered these words, the castle threw something towards Everastoansetta. Having broken through many floors and ceilings, it fell to its lowest floor - into the Hall of the Holy Thrones.
...and...
A long sword shining with a dark color pierced the god of madness Aganzon. Abolisher of Reason, Venuzdonoa. The shadow Venuzdonoa cast on the floor changed its form from a sword to a humanoid. The shadow became three-dimensional, stood up and took the Reason Destroyer.
"You decided that if I was reborn, I would take it and obediently be reborn?"
The shadow turned inside out and I appeared in the hall, not changed at all. The Reason Destroyer destroyed both the Gigerica and the disorder of the divine scythe of turmoil.
I was airing my thoughts not refuting what was said and the fact you bring up layers again means you didn't get my point.
Profile doesn't matter and I didn't mention resistance all I said is that the effects of madness makes Anos stronger and blood lusted, that's different from saying it won't work cause of resistance.
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why tf isn't anos 2-A??
| "You are an inhabitant of a bubble world, so it is understandable that you are bewildered. Outside the world in which you lived, an endless sea spreads out. That is the Silver Water Holy Sea. And there are many countless small worlds that exist there." |
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Not yet translated
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No.
Anos has to summon Venuzdonua
"Venuzdonoa can only be used with Delsgade, but this can be circumvented by summoning and moving Delsgade itself.
he has to say something like, "Venuzdonua get over here" but when he actually does activate Venuzdonua, the passive effects start to happen
i know this is the anime version but this is a pretty good example
Anos rarely calls upon it anyway
He literally says, "Cum, Venuzdonoa"
oh what the fk
i just realized Dante's true form is in the demon world which is 2-C
you need 2-C range to interact with Dante. Anos has Low 2-C range
Dante is going to keep attacking and dodging attacks from 2-C range and can probably teleport shit inside of Anos or use his BFR across 2-C
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No.
Anos has to summon Venuzdonua
"Venuzdonoa can only be used with Delsgade, but this can be circumvented by summoning and moving Delsgade itself.
he has to say something like, "Venuzdonua get over here" but when he actually does activate Venuzdonua, the passive effects start to happen
i know this is the anime version but this is a pretty good example
Anos rarely calls upon it anyway
He literally says, "Cum, Venuzdonoa"
Robo, you do know you're not refuting anything I said and are just making conjecture right? I just sent Delzgade and Venuzdonoa arriving on it's own without being summoned, under SBA Anos starts with standard equipment
When you back that up with evidence, let me know
Eighteen thousand years ago...
The world of the calamitous abyss of Ivezeino is a place where the rain never stops.
Just as a thirsty heart longs for water, so the thirst of mortals, drawn into the “abyss”, turned into rain, but no matter how long it fell, its thirst could not be quenched.
Over time, falling raindrops uprooted the ground and, unnoticed by everyone, formed a huge hole in it.
An infinitely deep puddle that seemed to lead to the very bottom of the world, in which all kinds of passionate desires dissolved.
"Disastrous Abyss of Thirst."
From the very moment of the formation of this “abyss” it influenced all the inhabitants of Evezeino and determined their lives. The beasts of thirst living in that puddle, in other words, phantom beasts moved into the hearts of living beings and filled them with their thirst.
Natural desires that everyone has, such as: a thirst for control, a thirst for love, a thirst for food or a thirst for recognition - collected, mixed and distorted in this “abyss”, turning into an insane dark thirst that gave birth to insane monsters. In the world of the calamitous abyss, where phantom beasts ruled, mortals easily went crazy and turned into disasters that befall other mortals.
Therefore, rule based on law did not really work here, and survival was possible only through force and knowledge. Most of the races died out, and the only survivors were those who adapted to the phantom beasts, who were called phantom demons.
However, for them, Ivezeino was a very harsh world. Most of the phantom demons were possessed by phantom beasts and sometimes, out of thirst, even attacked other worlds.
As soon as their thirst awoke, common sense and laws lost all meaning for them and they could only be stopped by force. This was one of the reasons why the world of calamity was hated.
But even among the inhabitants of such a world, there were only a few of those whom the phantom beasts did not take control of and who retained their sanity.
Conventionally, they could be divided into two groups.
The former had such a strong will that the phantom beasts could not subdue their hearts, and the latter had a thirst so strong that it surpassed even the phantom beasts.
The stronger thirst consumed the weaker. Even if it belonged to a phantom beast.
"Disastrous Deeps of Thirst."
Inside this huge puddle, the ship of the sea of green Ioneria headed for its bottom and sank deeper and deeper. Inside it was much more spacious than on the surface - so much so that it could swallow a huge ship of a sea of greenery and there was still a lot of free space left in it.
The deeper I dived, the muddier the water became and the stronger the field of magical power that surrounded me raged. I took my magical eyes away from the ship of the sea of greenery and, looking into the abyss of water, I heard an echo of eerie voices.
Want…
Few…
More…
Thirsty... thirsty... thirsty...
- Hmm, water that dissolves and mixes passionate desires, then?
Thirst from the entire silver-water sacred ocean gathered in the “abyss” of Ivezeino and, pouring out in the form of rain, plunged into this puddle.
Although I was still not far from the surface, the voices of phantom beasts echoed in my head like a curse. Those who do not have strong resistance will probably go crazy just by entering here. How much thirst has accumulated in the depths of this puddle?
...
“ Answer us, Two Laws Tyrant, ” someone’s “Lix” was heard inside the ship of the sea of greenery.
One after another, soldiers of the Phantom Beast Organization jumped out of the research shell tower into the water.
Each of them wore a white shell-like robe identical to the Thunderclam Dragon's scales.
“ We are a squad of crazy beasts from the Evezeino Phantom Beast Organization, reporting personally to the head, Dominic.” Heed our warning. Leave Evezeino immediately. If you don't quickly make your ship float to the surface, you will be consumed by an insane thirst."
...
Several dozen phantom demons released all their magical power, preparing to fight.
...However, they were weaker than I thought.
With this level of power, they even...
“This is the Calamity Deep of Thirst, and as long as the Thunderclam Dragon is here... Jeld... noora... ra... ra...”
Hmm, what's wrong with them?
There's something wrong with them. Their eyes became bloodshot, their muscles bulged, and their facial expressions changed dramatically and became like those of those possessed. In addition, their magical power has increased by several orders of magnitude.
– I’ll kill... I’ll kill you!..
- A-a-a-a-a-a-a, a-a-a, a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a... Die!.. You will finally die! ..
– Hya-ha-ah-ah!! I don’t care whether you’re an inviolable water or not, but you had the audacity to come here, stranger!
“If I destroy one of the inviolable waters, then I myself will become one of them!”
- He is my prey! So don't bother!!
- Stupid idiot! This is our territory! “Disasterful Deep of Thirst” is a real water disaster for all living beings except phantom demons and beasts!!..
Even their character has changed beyond recognition. And for everyone at once. It seems that rationality has disappeared and they have been consumed by passionate desires. Apparently, that’s why they are called a squad of crazy animals.
The world of the calamitous abyss of Ivezeino is a place where the rain never stops.
Just as a thirsty heart longs for water, so the thirst of mortals, drawn into the “abyss”, turned into rain, but no matter how long it fell, its thirst could not be quenched.
Over time, falling raindrops uprooted the ground and, unnoticed by everyone, formed a huge hole in it.
An infinitely deep puddle that seemed to lead to the very bottom of the world, in which all kinds of passionate desires dissolved.
"Disastrous Abyss of Thirst."
From the very moment of the formation of this “abyss” it influenced all the inhabitants of Evezeino and determined their lives. The beasts of thirst living in that puddle, in other words, phantom beasts moved into the hearts of living beings and filled them with their thirst.
Natural desires that everyone has, such as: a thirst for control, a thirst for love, a thirst for food or a thirst for recognition - collected, mixed and distorted in this “abyss”, turning into an insane dark thirst that gave birth to insane monsters. In the world of the calamitous abyss, where phantom beasts ruled, mortals easily went crazy and turned into disasters that befall other mortals.
Therefore, rule based on law did not really work here, and survival was possible only through force and knowledge. Most of the races died out, and the only survivors were those who adapted to the phantom beasts, who were called phantom demons.
However, for them, Ivezeino was a very harsh world. Most of the phantom demons were possessed by phantom beasts and sometimes, out of thirst, even attacked other worlds.
As soon as their thirst awoke, common sense and laws lost all meaning for them and they could only be stopped by force. This was one of the reasons why the world of calamity was hated.
But even among the inhabitants of such a world, there were only a few of those whom the phantom beasts did not take control of and who retained their sanity.
Conventionally, they could be divided into two groups.
The former had such a strong will that the phantom beasts could not subdue their hearts, and the latter had a thirst so strong that it surpassed even the phantom beasts.
The stronger thirst consumed the weaker. Even if it belonged to a phantom beast.
"Disastrous Deeps of Thirst."
Inside this huge puddle, the ship of the sea of green Ioneria headed for its bottom and sank deeper and deeper. Inside it was much more spacious than on the surface - so much so that it could swallow a huge ship of a sea of greenery and there was still a lot of free space left in it.
The deeper I dived, the muddier the water became and the stronger the field of magical power that surrounded me raged. I took my magical eyes away from the ship of the sea of greenery and, looking into the abyss of water, I heard an echo of eerie voices.
Want…
Few…
More…
Thirsty... thirsty... thirsty...
- Hmm, water that dissolves and mixes passionate desires, then?
Thirst from the entire silver-water sacred ocean gathered in the “abyss” of Ivezeino and, pouring out in the form of rain, plunged into this puddle.
Although I was still not far from the surface, the voices of phantom beasts echoed in my head like a curse. Those who do not have strong resistance will probably go crazy just by entering here. How much thirst has accumulated in the depths of this puddle?
...
“ Answer us, Two Laws Tyrant, ” someone’s “Lix” was heard inside the ship of the sea of greenery.
One after another, soldiers of the Phantom Beast Organization jumped out of the research shell tower into the water.
Each of them wore a white shell-like robe identical to the Thunderclam Dragon's scales.
“ We are a squad of crazy beasts from the Evezeino Phantom Beast Organization, reporting personally to the head, Dominic.” Heed our warning. Leave Evezeino immediately. If you don't quickly make your ship float to the surface, you will be consumed by an insane thirst."
...
Several dozen phantom demons released all their magical power, preparing to fight.
...However, they were weaker than I thought.
With this level of power, they even...
“This is the Calamity Deep of Thirst, and as long as the Thunderclam Dragon is here... Jeld... noora... ra... ra...”
Hmm, what's wrong with them?
There's something wrong with them. Their eyes became bloodshot, their muscles bulged, and their facial expressions changed dramatically and became like those of those possessed. In addition, their magical power has increased by several orders of magnitude.
– I’ll kill... I’ll kill you!..
- A-a-a-a-a-a-a, a-a-a, a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a... Die!.. You will finally die! ..
– Hya-ha-ah-ah!! I don’t care whether you’re an inviolable water or not, but you had the audacity to come here, stranger!
“If I destroy one of the inviolable waters, then I myself will become one of them!”
- He is my prey! So don't bother!!
- Stupid idiot! This is our territory! “Disasterful Deep of Thirst” is a real water disaster for all living beings except phantom demons and beasts!!..
Even their character has changed beyond recognition. And for everyone at once. It seems that rationality has disappeared and they have been consumed by passionate desires. Apparently, that’s why they are called a squad of crazy animals.
Bottomline, with or without resistance, madness hax isn't incapacitating Anos, it's only going to make him blood lusted and stronger, case in point.
Tanin_iver
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I will just clear one misconception that I saw here multiple times, Madness Hax is not based on dimensionality, so it has nothing to do with 3D or 4D, it's just related to perception.
I also apologise for continuing this shitstorm, should have let it die.
I also apologise for continuing this shitstorm, should have let it die.
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This is good
but now we have to deal with this
This is just a range stomp now
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"Curiosity isn't a sin, Robo, but you must exercise caution."
Albus Dumbledore
Seriously, this thread was ignored for five months and you raised it, and now two characters in need of upgrades and fixes are being smacked together again, and we're arguing about core mechanics for two pages...
Anyway, from what I can tell this is inevitably a stomp one way or another (also these two would be friends if they met...) so let's just pray for this thread to leave us alone...
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its not like anything bad is gonna happen from this match
anos vs dante is a fun debate
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What true form? I don't see any type 9 immortality, SBA they start within 4km of each other, when has dante range spammed?
Tanin_iver
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They use their Social Influencing on each other and become best of buddies. The true ending.
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anos and dante like superman and goku
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- Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 9): Demons don't age at all[31][32][33][34][30], and thanks to their regeneration[32][33][34][30], they can also[28] survive great amounts of damage[29], and also can possess others to exist in the Demon World while also being undead. Demons oftentimes project their consciousness[35] or spirit[36] across the Dimensional Wall they are in, (most prominently shown using Sand, Marionettes, etc.) whilst leaving other parts of themselves within the Demon World. These are then used as "avatars" for the Demons to torment humanity, through these mediums that allow them to repeatedly strike at muggles even if their physical form is disturbed.
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El Donté, el exterminador de demonios y Angus Voldigoad, el demonio rey de la tiranía mejores amigos par siempre
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Can we just
Yeah, where has Dante done this, that description even tells me it's done by nameless fodder and if I remember that DMC blog correctly, it doesn't apply to sparda like Dante.
agree to let this die and crucify Robo if he tries to revive it?
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you can use your power to close this thread
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Verily I say unto you, power and authority, I have none
Tanin_iver
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Technically possible but completely out of character. Not even mid tiers normally do it because their power can **** Za Warudo. So you are right out about this.
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... Please tell me the page doesn't literally use the word "muggles"...
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... I'm not the one who necroed a long dead thread...
Still, you're all right, let's ignore or close this. I'll see the page eventually and know if someone really did write "muggles" in it...
Still, you're all right, let's ignore or close this. I'll see the page eventually and know if someone really did write "muggles" in it...
