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What makes Kairi fate manipulation 5D?5-D passive fate manip that prevents permanent death/incap, type 1 conceptual and type 2 info EE, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, Void Manip, High-Godly type 8 immortality, and most of his powers are also enhanced by type 1 CM and type 2 Info Manip.
Arceus has power absorption, which Sora has 0 resistances to . Arceus absorbs his powers scaling above humans beings able to seal Hoopa's power with the power he gave themSora has Sealing Negation, and can travel across multiple Low 1-C spaces, and that also extends to his fate manip
It prevented Kairi from going outside the main 5D cosmology, more information here.What makes Kairi fate manipulation 5D?
Cool, Sora has 27 layers on that, and a Resistance Negation layer on that as well, and then there's Arceus not having an answer to the type 2 info manip on top of it, so that'd render it unusable here anyways.Type 1 concept EE gets negged by the plates scaling above tbe creation trio
Arceus' immunities rely on the attack taken having a type, which we only apply here for other verses to Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ice, Rock, Ground and Poison. I'm sure I've also talked with you before on how Struggle, a typeless move, ignores Wonder Guard for instance, so it'd be more than fair to claim that such type-based "immunities" would be mostly useless here, Sora has already dealt with enemies that are unfazed by elemental attacks.Mid Godly that's fine. If any of Sora's attacks will even hit him at all
Also see the above.Void manipulation is meaningless here scaling off the CT being unaffected by dimensional Erasure .
Sora's High-Godly comes from Kairi, and I'm sure Arceus lacks the range to reach other Low 1-C structures to affect her anyways.High Godly is cool. Arceus reverses time that also includes age hax that reverses as well as negates your powers and abilities. Reactive Devolution. You can't regen if you're reverted to the time you didn't have it to begin with.
Himself? A Keyblade comes from the user's heart, which in itself can erradicate the Heartless to free the heart (concept, in simple terms) it has stolen with any attack.Who gave most of his powers enhanced CM?
See the aboveAnyway. Destiny Bond is something Dynamax Pokémon are unaffected by, which is fate hax that links fate and inflicts onto others what they inflict in him. So prove to me that fate hax works on a 5D level. Otherwise Arceus just beats Sora to death.
Sora is one of the most skilled characters on the site, he has dealt with far worse than a mere fast physical tackle, such as having to deal with thisBlitzes him with Extreme Speed
Memories are bound to the "heart", and Arceus lacks type 2 information manip (which also makes it up), so it won't workand just
1. Erase his memories scaling off Uxie
Sora resists, it's a standard KH darkness power, which he can even apply to Arceus with Anti Form2. Killing him with a look scaling off Mimikyu
Not on a conceptual and (before you bring up Mesprit) type 2 info level, a mind is bound to the user's "heart", also lol Supernatural Willpower3. Empathic hax, scaling off Malamar. He simply drains his willpower
See the Mimikyu part above, same applies4. Madness hax type 2, and type 3 from illusions that cause internal and external damage as well as drive you insane scaling off Hisuian Zoroark
Sora has dealt with a danmaku at point blank before, and he has already dealt with a pulling force before, also lol High-Godly and the before-mentioned fate manip.5. Danmaku soul removal plus life force absorption scaling off Calyrex
Fate Manip and High-Godly, again.6.Telekinesis twists Sora, smash him around like a Toy, tear him apart. And this acts on a cellular level
Also lol fate manip.7. Body Puppetry via instruct and psychic powers which forces him to use his attacks elsewhere, or even on himself if he wants
Power Absorption that requires feats to confirm it can work particularly on Sealing Negation, which Arceus can't disrupt as he lacks type 2 info manip to alter the source of it (Sora's heart).Arceus has power absorption, which Sora has 0 resistances to . Arceus absorbs his powers scaling above humans beings able to seal Hoopa's power with the power he gave them
5D fate manipulation scans.
Range: Standard melee range, Extended melee range with the wood sword | Extended melee range, Tens of meters with Keyblade telepathy and with regular melee, Planetary with magic, Interdimensional with Keyholes (Sora can open portals to travel from reaching other worlds (universes), to reaching the other multiverse that is the Realm of Darkness and the Final World)
Yo, I'm looking at acreus's acausality and it's weirdly scuffed. Mostly it's says type 1 but also has a huge chunk of giratina's type 4 just laying right in there.
Acausality (Types 1. Unaffected by changes in history unless he allows them and 4. Giratina is an aspect of Arceus...
The Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.I'd put this thread in a hard can of actually wait until actual revisions go fully through cause sora doesn't even have conceptual Manipulation on his page yet let alone any of those "27 layers".
I don't see how stacking layers makes it more fundamental than effecting conceptual nonexistence.The Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.
Affecting Conceptual non-existence isn't really measurable, and layers, especially Resistence Negation, are extremely important when talking about CM Type 1.I don't see how stacking layers makes it more fundamental than effecting conceptual nonexistence.
Adding layers on beating up conceptual nonexistent beings vs effecting the very embodying concept is like adding 27 layers of atomic resistance and saying it's more fundamental than quantum manip. I see sora beating conceptual nonexistent beings with those layers not beating up the entire concept of nonexistence itself.Affecting Conceptual non-existence isn't really measurable, and layers, especially Resistence Negation, are extremely important when talking about CM Type 1.
I want to add that the Keyblade is also able to affect Nobody, conceptually nonexistent beings, without any problem.
That's not 5D fate manipulation. Kairi is 3D.It prevented Kairi from going outside the main 5D cosmology, more information here
On what attacks exactly?Cool, Sora has 27 layers on that, and a Resistance Negation layer on that as well, and then there's Arceus not having an answer to the type 2 info manip on top of it, so that'd render it unusable here anyways.
It does not. It negates the effects of attacks. Going by all other sources beyond the game mechanics nature of the games. Its even in TCG, it negates effects of attacks. And Pokémon encompasses every single hax in Sora's verse and moreArceus' immunities rely on the attack taken having a type, which we only apply here for other verses to Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ice, Rock, Ground and Poison. I'm sure I've also talked with you before on how Struggle, a typeless move, ignores Wonder Guard for instance, so it'd be more than fair to claim that such type-based "immunities" would be mostly useless here, Sora has already dealt with enemies that are unfazed by elemental attacks.
And which part of it makes it low 1C.Also lol NLF as he can summon characters with Low 1-C AP, notably including Stitch, who provides Sora with a barrier that protects him from projectiles while also providing support outside the fourth wall, I'd mention Drive Forms but they're banned here as both combatants are 2-B here, AFAIK.
He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.Also see the above.
Sora's High-Godly comes from Kairi, and I'm sure Arceus lacks the range to reach other Low 1-C structures to affect her anyways.
Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.Himself? A Keyblade comes from the user's heart, which in itself can erradicate the Heartless to free the heart (concept, in simple terms) it has stolen with any attack.
Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.See the above
Sora is one of the most skilled characters on the site, he has dealt with far worse than a mere fast physical tackle, such as having to deal with this
Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.Memories are bound to the "heart", and Arceus lacks type 2 information manip (which also makes it up), so it won't work
He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistanceSora resists, it's a standard KH darkness power, which he can even apply to Arceus with Anti Form
Nope. You're yet to prove how you'd need it on a conceptual level to do anythingNot on a conceptual and (before you bring up Mesprit) type 2 info level, a mind is bound to the user's "heart", also lol Supernatural Willpower
It does not. It's death hax. You see him, you dieSee the Mimikyu part above, same applies
Cool?Sora has dealt with a danmaku at point blank before, and he has already dealt with a pulling force before, also lol High-Godly and the before-mentioned fate manip.
Fate manipulation is not 5D unless it can steer the fate of 5D beings, not 3D characters with low 1C apFate Manip and High-Godly, again.
Gets negged by AcausalityAlso lol fate manip.
Power absorption that works on a conceptual level by asborbing the essence of your hax doesn't care about whether it's Info 2 or not, as both work on a fundamental level. So he absorbsPower Absorption that requires feats to confirm it can work particularly on Sealing Negation, which Arceus can't disrupt as he lacks type 2 info manip to alter the source of it (Sora's heart).
See the scans in the first part of this post.
That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cardsThe Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.
That's how it works. Beating the concept of nonexistence is just NPI against AE Type 1 and NEP, it doesn't affect the layers of CM Type 1.Adding layers on beating up conceptual nonexistent beings vs effecting the very embodying concept is like adding 27 layers of atomic resistance and saying it's more fundamental than quantum manip. I see sora beating conceptual nonexistent beings with those layers not beating up the entire concept of nonexistence itself.
That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cards
Sora passively misses all his attacks
Doesn't really count as any of that if your beating them with the CM 1 you used to create them with.That's how it works. Beating the concept of nonexistence is just NPI against AE Type 1 and NEP
Then I must be pretty stupid to think effecting the very concept itself is more fundamental than beings who participate in the concept.it doesn't affect the layers of CM Type 1.
Affecting a concept is just NPI against AE Type 1. Last thing I will say for real this time.Doesn't really count as any of that if your beating them with the CM 1 you used to create them with.
Then I must be pretty stupid to think effecting the very concept itself is more fundamental than beings who participate in the concept.
So Conceptual Manipulation as a concept doesn't exist then. Got it. ️Affecting a concept is just NPI against AE Type 1. Last thing I will say for real this time.
That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cards
Sora passively misses all his attacks
For a bit more context, this is Pokémon Conquest.
For as long as you don't Link with Arceus, all your attacks will miss, and nothing you can do will affect him because of "Omnipotent". It doesn't care about whether you boost your accuracy or not or what ability or moves you possess to ignore abilities. It will miss.
My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon card from the drawer lolI'm pretty sure arceus in terms of conceptual Manip kinda hard neges given that one of the creation trio embodies the concept of nothingness, metal body pretty much negates any damage getting thrown at him, so high-Godly is getting thrashed and unless your thrown some SMT sounding almighty invulnerability negation then getting damage on him is pretty slim. Also if his density bond can slap any of the creation trio then the range on sora's type 8 doesn't matter if it's slapping beings with type 4 Acausality around.
Gen IV is over ten years old.My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon from the drawer lol
Man I wish that was my card, cause that card would of been put on market especially with how old it looks.My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon from the drawer lol
I can make the exact same argument I did in the Giratina thread of Sora just negating the capability of Arceus making another avatar, at least in a combat applicable timeframe, also lol above baseline Low 1-C sealing.Arceus has it's whole Omnipresent Large Size Abstract Existence thing while Sora's range is
I'm sure Arceus doesn't use DBond in character (it's technically a thing he has, but it's not used by him on-screen or similar, and so it has no feats of even affecting tier 2s), even so, DBond would just make it a tie at most considering its generally portrayed as making the one that KOs the user also faint, of note is that the move can't be used consecutively, so Arceus can't spam it either.I'm pretty sure arceus in terms of conceptual Manip kinda hard neges given that one of the creation trio embodies the concept of nothingness, metal body pretty much negates any damage getting thrown at him, so high-Godly is getting thrashed and unless your thrown some SMT sounding almighty invulnerability negation then getting damage on him is pretty slim. Also if his density bond can slap any of the creation trio then the range on sora's type 8 doesn't matter if it's slapping beings with type 4 Acausality around.
Such fate manip also collaborated on Sora exiting the Realm of Darkness, which is a parallel 5-D structure to (and outside of) the Ocean Between (The Realm of Light is just the name of the main region of it, the Realm Between is just a closer part of it to the Realm of Darkness)That's not 5D fate manipulation. Kairi is 3D.
All of them, all attacks Sora could do with the cards in CoM required cards, and from there he just upscales in later games.On what attacks exactly?
Second Chance and Once More still kick in (Low 1-C level) and Sora finds an opening to enter Final Form and do something like this (he upscales from this later on).Arceus TKs him beats him to pulp.
No resistance to Telekinesis means you're just floating helplessnessly around
Not type 2 info manip, again, it's even noted in the page to be more fundamental than type 1, and so per site standards that wouldn't work here.It does not. It negates the effects of attacks. Going by all other sources beyond the game mechanics nature of the games. Its even in TCG, it negates effects of attacks. And Pokémon encompasses every single hax in Sora's verse and more
No type 2 info to do that, gg.Arceus can erase the Concept of Spirit here and kill Sora
It works on stuff thrown by the Lingering Will, which is Low 1-CAnd which part of it makes it low 1C.
You're assuming the barrier is low 1C.
Iirc you need proof that the barrier is low 1C.
Of course, otherwise the Heart in Pokémon sits on the verse and the match is over
I mean, that'd be fair game here, but I'm doing this match in advance as tier 1 is generally a dead end of matches, so I wanted to do this to have some fun while I couldOh, so we're doing this before Arceus ascends to 6-D? What's the point?
Kinda leaning towards Sora but I'm not voting yet.
Arceus' precognitive abilities and the likes have no feats of reaching tier 1 levels, so he'd be unaware on how to stop Sora from reviving.He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.
High Godly. Arceus reverts him to the time he didn't have High Godly and he dies
No type 2 info manip to actually do that, so not really.Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.
Mastering all martial arts doesn't tell me much without showings of how good that's in practice, especially with Arceus' physiology in relation to the most skilled Pokémon rendering most of that information kinda useless out of being too different to be even practical.Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.
Skills? You mean which, because a lot of Pokémon are indeed skilled.
Notably it also is made of type 2 information, which the Pokémon series lacks as a whole.Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.
He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistance
Please read Sora's page.
- Death Manipulation, Absorption, KH Darkness Manipulation (Can take hits from Heartless, which which passively kill and absorb things around them with darkness, Ventus' heart protected Sora from the darkness within his dreams)
Because the memories are directly tied to a heart, and so you'd need to disrupt a heart to do anything like that in the first place.Nope. You're yet to prove how you'd need it on a conceptual level to do anything
He looks at him, gets his memories erased.
Memories are a vital component of a heart[4], significant disruption of them can destroy a heart.
As said before, he resists.It does not. It's death hax. You see him, you die
Arceus has to trigger it first as it isn't just passiving everything in the verse as it goes around, and so the actually passive fate manip just prevents those abilities.Cool?
So sora passively dies and dies and dies and dies.
While Arceus reverses time to the part he didn't have high godly
Fate manipulation is not 5D unless it can steer the fate of 5D beings, not 3D characters with low 1C ap
Gets negged by Acausality
It matters when not only Sora resists Type 1 CM on a 5D level, his own concept is also tier to type 2 info, which is more fundamental overall per definition as heavily implied in the Info Manip page on the site.Power absorption that works on a conceptual level by asborbing the essence of your hax doesn't care about whether it's Info 2 or not, as both work on a fundamental level. So he absorbs
Damn I’m really old wtf
Also Extreme Speed isn’t just a tackle, it’s fast, skill can’t do much for you if you’re being blitzed
Type 4 acausality that caps at tier 2, smurfery says noI think Arceus would duke out slam Sora passively with it's Acasuality 4 that's higher than Giratina
Sora is higher in layers as accepted in a thread and has a layer of Resistance. Arceus does not erase Sora's Concept of Spirit here.Arceus can erase the Concept of Spirit here and kill Sora
It's a barrier which can protect against characters who scale to Low 1C. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it?And which part of it makes it low 1C.
You're assuming the barrier is low 1C.
Iirc you need proof that the barrier is low 1C.
And can you present where that is accepted?He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.
High Godly. Arceus reverts him to the time he didn't have High Godly and he dies
The Term Heart for KH =/= The Term Heart for other verses. Just because the CT can erase a Heart from Pokemon means nothing here. KH's Term for a Heart comes with multiple Passive Hax and Resistances. It's almost like you didn't bother to read the appropriate related Articles to Sora before making your argument.Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.
When both fighters have equalized speed, and Sora has Instinctive Reaction's and Genius level Intellect to help him better react to Arceus's dodging, I'm doubting Arceus manages to avoid literally every single attack, Precog isn't just a instant Get out of Jail free card that let's you avoid everything, especially with someone who show's the insane degree of Skill that Sora has (Not to mention the Whole Jimminy's Journal Conundrum of a Argument, Bob should know what I'm referring to.)Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.
Not a argument. Prove how skilled Arceus is, Sora already has a whole section of a thread that show's the Length of his skill.Skills? You mean which, because a lot of Pokémon are indeed skilled.
Here, a Link to the KH Heart's Page. Unless you can provide evidence accepted by the wiki of Pokemon having the things listed here, than a Heart in Pokemon cannot be applied here.Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.
Look at his page, again. In literally the first key, he has it.He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistance
If only the attack will hit because "Omnipotent"I can make the exact same argument I did in the Giratina thread of Sora just negating the capability of Arceus making another avatar, at least in a combat applicable timeframe, also lol above baseline Low 1-C sealing.
We've never seen what Arceus would do in character, so there's absolutely no reason to assume he wouldn't use it couple that with the various precogs, vision and his personal Cosmic Awareness and I see why he wouldn't go for the WI'm sure Arceus doesn't use DBond in character (it's technically a thing he has, but it's not used by him on-screen or similar, and so it has no feats of even affecting tier 2s), even so, DBond would just make it a tie at most considering its generally portrayed as making the one that KOs the user also faint, of note is that the move can't be used consecutively, so Arceus can't spam it either.
That's not 5D. Sora is 3D. Manipulating the fate of a 3D character is not 5D. Show me where it controlled the fate of a 5D being. Then it becomes 5DSuch fate manip also collaborated on Sora exiting the Realm of Darkness, which is a parallel 5-D structure to (and outside of) the Ocean Between (The Realm of Light is just the name of the main region of it, the Realm Between is just a closer part of it to the Realm of Darkness)
"Omnipotent"All of them, all attacks Sora could do with the cards in CoM required cards, and from there he just upscales in later games.
Low 1C Ap that Arceus has now?Second Chance and Once More still kick in (Low 1-C level) and Sora finds an opening to enter Final Form and do something like this.
Not type 2 info manip, again, it's even noted in the page to be more fundamental than type 1, and so per site standards that wouldn't work here.
And it'd be a NLF to claim it applies to anything whatsoever, notably including actual Low 1-C AP and Low 1-C abilities that don't exist in the setting (Arceus has never fought in-verse someone truly at his level).
What makes these characters low 1C beyond Ap and durabilityNo type 2 info to do that, gg.
It works on stuff thrown by the Lingering Will, which is Low 1-C
Arceus is low 1C and overwatches all creation so yes, it scalesI mean, that'd be fair game here, but I'm doing this match in advance as tier 1 is generally a dead end of matches, so I wanted to do this to have some fun while I could
Arceus' precognitive abilities and the likes have no feats of reaching tier 1 levels, so he'd be unaware on how to stop Sora from reviving.
You win this oneNo type 2 info manip to actually do that, so not really.
Mastering all martial arts doesn't tell me much without showings of how good that's in practice, especially with Arceus' physiology in relation to the most skilled Pokémon rendering most of that information kinda useless out of being too different to be even practical.
I'm waiting for you to explain how Sora has 5D hax beyond APSora has Low 1-C trapping with Chicken Little, Magnega is also fair game here as it also works from type 1 CM and type 2 info, which works even on characters that can teleport.
HmmNotably it also is made of type 2 information, which the Pokémon series lacks as a whole.
And what makes the Heart 5D for all charactersPlease read Sora's page.
Because the memories are directly tied to a heart, and so you'd need to disrupt a heart to do anything like that in the first place.
Arceus Cosmic Awareness means he's seen it all. There's absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn't spam it as quickly as he couldRead this completely please
As said before, he resists.
Arceus has to trigger it first as it isn't just passiving everything in the verse as it goes around, and so the actually passive fate manip just prevents those abilities.
As said before, it could reach even outside a 5-D space to another one at that level, so it totally has the range to work here.
There's nothing that makes Soras heart 5D. 5D only applies to APIt matters when not only Sora resists Type 1 CM on a 5D level, his own concept is also tier to type 2 info, which is more fundamental overall per definition as heavily implied in the Info Manip page on the site.
ES makes a character fast to the point of appearing almost invisible. And it always goes first, regardless of how fast the opponent isI mean, Gen IV already got remakes, it's that old, I know how you feel : V
An unquantificable speed increase that even Pokémon that are relative to each other can react to, yeah no.
3D sora lolType 4 acausality that caps at tier 2, smurfery says no